Yeah the stumble and the stun lock are still in there. Had it happen last night
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eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)
- Thread starter Lami
- Start date
Yeah the stumble and the stun lock are still in there. Had it happen last night
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
Oh i bet, but its has noticably been toned down, imho. Not only the stumble animation seems less frequent to me, but overall players are much quicker under your control again after loosing there ball and show improved awareness.
PotatoCouch
Champions League
I'll keep my rant short and sweet. I played 1 game last night on Superstar difficulty using Ajax and I picked one of the weaker team. Scored 1 via David Neres then 2 mins, bang 1 - 1.... Tell me that I'm not playing good defence and this can be prevented and not merely scripted?
and as embarrassing as it is, the weaker team that I chose waa China National team and i lost 😂 2 - 1 is the final score
and as embarrassing as it is, the weaker team that I chose waa China National team and i lost 😂 2 - 1 is the final score
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The feeling of vulnerability (which you do get with manual) is so important I feel to the game not feeling stale...
Barca_Fan13
League 1
- 1 December 2007
- Team
- F.C. Barcelona
Dropped the difficulty down to Superstar from Legend. Game plays much better. AI isn't as godly.
Previously I was playing Barca v Arsenal and David Luiz was the best defender on the field
. Now after dropping it down players like Messi and Coutinho can actually run past him.
Previously I was playing Barca v Arsenal and David Luiz was the best defender on the field
. Now after dropping it down players like Messi and Coutinho can actually run past him.
PotatoCouch
Champions League
I like the gameplay and I believe I am on DP6 .. yeah I don't mind it.
Matt10
International
- 5 February 2004
Great write up and explanation. No way around some, rather most, of those issues. The game does not have the fundamental understanding of what a midfield should look like. Players do not block passing lanes and do not position themselves to the intended recipient. This goes back to my PES 3 video I discussed when PES 2018 came out:
The AI attacking is so varied now , no more playing to feet to the striker 90% of the time. Wish I'd saved the first two goals I conceeded in my new league. Lost 1 nil to Chelsea in supercup , top corner from 20 yards and lost 1 nil to city in charity sheild. Aguero did skill move out wide spun 360 and left me for dead cross to far post and sane smashes it roof of the net , looked class..this is on top player so I've done down two levels. My only gripe is the fouls , I'm getting some but the AI is getting miles more
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- Team
- SSC Napoli
I too cannot not notice how free i am to completely bypass midfield, it has been this way since Pes 2014 really. I don't remember if before Pes 2014 this was less of an issue or not. Coincidentally Pes 2014 was the beginning of Fox Engine in Pes. Maybe they restructured the Ps2 old defensive system but never improved on it, actually created a new one that is way worse than the old one.
I wonder if sending them more and more of your tactical videos they will notice it and try to improve, or if balancing defensive positions isn't really a priority anymore since they are so focused on making the game "exciting" and end to end.
Anyway Happy Easter everyone, even if it's very difficult to be happy during these difficult times.
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
Thank you for opening my eyes to passing lanes and how it impacts the gameplay on a fundamental level. I think you are spot on.
Makers me wonder, did anyone from Konami ever take the time to reach out to you Matt? If only to explain certain choices and/or promise improvements in futures versions?
slamsoze
International
- 28 September 2010
What the title says. I would just add , "everything wrong with MyClub" instead of "... with PES".
Danny Henry
The King is dead.
- 16 September 2013
This is something that I never understand. How this "emotion" system works anyway. Why the team that are losing have a boost on the moral or have a better momentum?
Wasn't it supposed to be the opposite?
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
One reason I do play a lot of 2017, right next to one of the most important things (AI), is that more crowded midfield. As an result of that AI in 2017 (as a team and each individual) this is working so well, imo. Because they do stick a leg out when it’s needed, because they track back a little and cut passing lanes (or easy: at least they are there), because they crowd the midfield... they are more active.
That’s why It looks and plays more like football then any PS4 PES, imo.
On top of that you have that more in variety everywhere, be it in the one on one battles or before the goal. Sheer variety. And those scuffed/missed attempts (be it header oder shots or whatnot)...
sometimes I spent some serious time in midfield trying to hold them off by moving my team in position, pressing here and there... sometimes it takes ages to work myself through that midfield just to find my striker with a bit of open space. lovely stuff, if you are up for this kind of football simulation.
Player on his own seem to be more aware of the whole situation and act accordingly (it’s not perfect). They are active even when you don’t have them at the sticks. They do stick close to the opponent by its own.
if I only wasn’t that lazy... so many GB of great video footage to cut, edit and share... but i keep on just playing. Sorry.
You guys said it all better before me.
And on goes the League with Watford..
Edit: what I noticed. In 2020 im far more chasing and sprinting after the ball, closing down to players or occupying space. In 2017, it’s all more in correct position already so i only do some slight shifts and movement to keep a good shape.
If only you guys would understand german. I’d be your Julian Nagelsmann!
...and the German thread is only good for Easter wishes!
The whole comparison sometimes reminds of playing with team mates (on the Club) and with (random small) kids in the park. Some know football, some don’t. Both can be fun.
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I think it's more dramatic for me because I've been playing on -2. I've since moved back up to -1.
Yup. It doesn't appear that the AI is coded to think a step ahead and anticipate what might happen.
Also it's funny actually. So last night I got tired of the AI fullbacks running away from wingers (an issue that has been in the game since at least 2017) and I remember something you suggested a few years back; making your FBs wide mids and using the wingback advanced instruction.
I'll play a few games and see if it makes a difference with how my FBs operate defensively.
Man I wish I could talk to someone at Konami sometimes. I have a few posts I wanna share with them lol. Honestly, I'm so glad I found this place because sometimes I feel like I'm just screaming into the abyss when I post on reddit.
Mr Regista
Conference
- 1 January 2020
I’m genuinely amazed. I started a new ML to just see if/what they’ve done. It’s beautiful. Superstar. 13min. PA0. Adv thru(which is literally never used because passing is so satisfying) manual shots. It’s like they took all the bs out Or something. It feels very very very fair 🤭 And it’s the most fun I’ve had playing ai in god knows how long. They’re actually playing football.
Oh and something about “bypassing midfield is too easy”? On PA1 right.
because I have to work my ass off against the big guns.
after datapack 5 I’m surprised at the negativity now . ppl are so obsessed with their own ‘vision’ of what pes ’should’ be, because obviously you are oracle of pes, that you’re blind and ignorant to this amazing game of footy. 🤷♂️
sorry but had to say something. It’s THAT good. ✌️
PRO_TOO
Team Heffernan
@aderow I've been playing A LOT and my fav settings now are: -1, top player in 2020. professional is not comparable with professional in 2017. I needed to step it up a little as I was walking all over them.
That’s another thing. Defensive actions. In 2020 a lot of times i just run over the ball carrier and get the ball. In 2017 i have to “work” a little more. It’s not that easy getting the ball back.
Edit: talk to me buddy. I’m like minded.
That’s another thing. Defensive actions. In 2020 a lot of times i just run over the ball carrier and get the ball. In 2017 i have to “work” a little more. It’s not that easy getting the ball back.
Edit: talk to me buddy. I’m like minded.
Played 5 matches last night and it gave me this feeling of.....hope?. I don't want hope. I don't like hope. Because too often a night where I enjoy this game is followed up by a night where everything that could possibly go wrong does go wrong and every single issue I have with the game manifests itself in the worst way imaginable.
I made a change that may be promising defensively (I'll have to see over the next few nights I play). Moved back to -1 game speed (still top player and 20 minutes). I'd say I was satisfied with how last night went. Why satisfied? Because I dominated and beat teams that I was supposed to beat. And we scored a decent amount of goals. The matches played out the way you'd expect a big club v small club match to play out.
But why I do fear this feeling of hope? Because of things like this. When I scored this goal, I felt it was my favorite one in a long time. At first glance it's a fantastic one; I make a run and Fred plays the perfect pass from deep. And the best part? I didn't even call for the pass; that's all Fred. But when I watch it back, I notice that the CB is man marking me out on the wing. And to make things worse, no one has shifted over to cover the space that he's left leaving massive hole in their back line. That's inexcusable. A CB shouldn't be man marking in that manner let alone without adequate cover.
I played Andelecht and smashed Anderlecht. I dedicate that video to all of you out there that are struggling with headers lol. Greenwood scores 2 with his head and even assists with his head as well. Bonus clip of Rashford scoring a header against Southampton.
Last but not least, we've all talked about it; these fouls man. How in the world is this not a penalty. I mean come on. And this wasn't the only that happened yesterday (messed up the clip of the other one).
So yeah. I feel like my enjoyment of this game is little piggy's house built of straw and the game's flaws are the big bad wolf on bath salts. It's a very delicate balance that really doesn't take much to ruin.
I made a change that may be promising defensively (I'll have to see over the next few nights I play). Moved back to -1 game speed (still top player and 20 minutes). I'd say I was satisfied with how last night went. Why satisfied? Because I dominated and beat teams that I was supposed to beat. And we scored a decent amount of goals. The matches played out the way you'd expect a big club v small club match to play out.
But why I do fear this feeling of hope? Because of things like this. When I scored this goal, I felt it was my favorite one in a long time. At first glance it's a fantastic one; I make a run and Fred plays the perfect pass from deep. And the best part? I didn't even call for the pass; that's all Fred. But when I watch it back, I notice that the CB is man marking me out on the wing. And to make things worse, no one has shifted over to cover the space that he's left leaving massive hole in their back line. That's inexcusable. A CB shouldn't be man marking in that manner let alone without adequate cover.
I played Andelecht and smashed Anderlecht. I dedicate that video to all of you out there that are struggling with headers lol. Greenwood scores 2 with his head and even assists with his head as well. Bonus clip of Rashford scoring a header against Southampton.
Last but not least, we've all talked about it; these fouls man. How in the world is this not a penalty. I mean come on. And this wasn't the only that happened yesterday (messed up the clip of the other one).
So yeah. I feel like my enjoyment of this game is little piggy's house built of straw and the game's flaws are the big bad wolf on bath salts. It's a very delicate balance that really doesn't take much to ruin.
@aderow I've been playing A LOT and my fav settings now are: -1, top player in 2020. professional is not comparable with professional in 2017. I needed to step it up a little as I was walking all over them.
That’s another thing. Defensive actions. In 2020 a lot of times i just run over the ball carrier and get the ball. In 2017 i have to “work” a little more. It’s not that easy getting the ball back.
Edit: talk to me buddy. I’m like minded.
Yeah I think I'll stick to -1 and top player
PotatoCouch
Champions League
Folks, very short question: can I use PES2019 kits in PES2020? Any ill effects?
tosser
League 2
- 10 June 2018
Yes, and none that I've noticed
Despite still missing that feeling of a game world you can really manipulate and that missing feeling of gradation to movement and ball physics (everything goes zero to 100) I have to hand it to konami. They do know what's wrong with this game and they're making a decent, if incremental effort, within the bounds of this engine, to fix it.
Long shots are now possible. The game feels freer in terms of how players move and the way they can move around the pitch, they feel less 'locked' to a grid. Ball physics have loosened too. The ball doesnt constantly rebound to AI, I can battle for it.
AI attacking is more varied too.
This is all on SS exhibition by the way, gave up on ML in november.
The attacking teammate AI, if you wait just long enough, is peerless. The patterns you can weave, with the top teams, are incredible. Again on exhibition. This disappears in ML.
Final third shots and crosses still lack any real thrill or spark but that's a ball physics issue that seems beyond this engine, without it becoming a mess a la early pes 2014.
Graphics and sound have improved too (sound still not great but at least the crowd makes more noise now).
Some days I feel like konami and pes is a lost cause. Others I feel like if they can build a core engine with real physics and freedom, and proper defensive AI the obvious talent of their developers could give us something really special. You just cannot make a game that looks and moves this good and plays this good through the middle third with incredible patterns of play in the final third (minus great shooting mechanics) and not have talent on your team, surely?
I feel the staleness and emptiness and boredom some/many of us feel would be eradicated at a stroke with a proper ball physics engine and more options to actually interact with the ball. Weve had the same physics for near enough 15 years. It could be quite a small change (major in terms of.devlopment resources) that stands between pes and a real return to form.
Long shots are now possible. The game feels freer in terms of how players move and the way they can move around the pitch, they feel less 'locked' to a grid. Ball physics have loosened too. The ball doesnt constantly rebound to AI, I can battle for it.
AI attacking is more varied too.
This is all on SS exhibition by the way, gave up on ML in november.
The attacking teammate AI, if you wait just long enough, is peerless. The patterns you can weave, with the top teams, are incredible. Again on exhibition. This disappears in ML.
Final third shots and crosses still lack any real thrill or spark but that's a ball physics issue that seems beyond this engine, without it becoming a mess a la early pes 2014.
Graphics and sound have improved too (sound still not great but at least the crowd makes more noise now).
Some days I feel like konami and pes is a lost cause. Others I feel like if they can build a core engine with real physics and freedom, and proper defensive AI the obvious talent of their developers could give us something really special. You just cannot make a game that looks and moves this good and plays this good through the middle third with incredible patterns of play in the final third (minus great shooting mechanics) and not have talent on your team, surely?
I feel the staleness and emptiness and boredom some/many of us feel would be eradicated at a stroke with a proper ball physics engine and more options to actually interact with the ball. Weve had the same physics for near enough 15 years. It could be quite a small change (major in terms of.devlopment resources) that stands between pes and a real return to form.
Definitely loving this again , 1 game in and I win a pen..thought I'd saved it to YouTube but it's not there. Also more random deflections and AI mistakes. My 3rd goal in the first game was a high through ball defender tried to head it but hit top of his head so looped high backwards into his own box ..mane run on to it 1st volley ...looked amazing
Matt10
International
- 5 February 2004
There was a time in which Adam reached out via twitter and asked for more example videos to be shown. To be fair, they did sort out the defensive midfield issues in 19 and 20, but it took a while to get there from 2017.
The biggest issue I see now is the passing lanes not being blocked. In addition, the defensive third attitude is lacking. The ball can be moved from side to side with no resistance, regardless of tactics or aggression level defensively. Instead of being 2-3 steps off to reach the ball carrier, they are 7-10 steps. Example here:
From the video, it's plain as day. The central midfielders are several steps behind. There's no reason to be. This is a team that is tactically set up to be aggressive. When my midfielder receives the ball, you'd expect someone to be there - even if they set up defensively conservative.
Now my midfielder collects the ball, yet the two opposing midfielders are still in their exact same spot. They are in the "Ready" stance to engage, but why are they so far back? There is no sense of anticipation here. My midfielder can turn and face with ease, and draw in their midfielder to take him on. Even when the does happen...
You can see next that the other midfielder near the wing doesn't close down the intended recepient. Why not? If they are going to be 7-10 steps off the pace directly in front of the ball, then at least please put some pressure on the intended recepient.
I can easy cycle right back to where the ball came from. Why? Because the central midfielders again have dropped back into their pre-designed spot and are starting the whole sequence over again. It's a reboot of illogical standards. Any of them should be closing down the intended recepient here.
---------------
This is 99% of the issues with the midfield in this game. They are not engaged with the intended recepient, and as a result the passing lanes are completely open. It is literally school-boy fundamental zonal defending being taught here. Any coach worth their salt teaches the position defensively of where the intended recepient could be. This is why when you go into advanced instructions hoping for a gegenpress - it's not a gegenpress at all. A gegenpress does not just press the ball carrier, it presses the intended recepient(s). The gegenpress cannot even take shape because the base fundamentals of this defending logic isn't even existing in the most basic forms yet.
If the real sport followed this logic, players would just stand there with the ball to draw out defending midfielders all match long. That is why it's so easy to pass in this game, and that is why it becomes lifeless in the spots where there should be moments of confrontation. Those who say it's because you're on PA1, that is just scooting around the core issue. The issue is that PES 20 struggles to grasp the concept of how to properly put pressure on the ball carrier and the intended recepient.
There was a time in which Adam reached out via twitter and asked for more example videos to be shown. To be fair, they did sort out the defensive midfield issues in 19 and 20, but it took a while to get there from 2017.
The biggest issue I see now is the passing lanes not being blocked. In addition, the defensive third attitude is lacking. The ball can be moved from side to side with no resistance, regardless of tactics or aggression level defensively. Instead of being 2-3 steps off to reach the ball carrier, they are 7-10 steps. Example here:
From the video, it's plain as day. The central midfielders are several steps behind. There's no reason to be. This is a team that is tactically set up to be aggressive. When my midfielder receives the ball, you'd expect someone to be there - even if they set up defensively conservative.
Now my midfielder collects the ball, yet the two opposing midfielders are still in their exact same spot. They are in the "Ready" stance to engage, but why are they so far back? There is no sense of anticipation here. My midfielder can turn and face with ease, and draw in their midfielder to take him on. Even when the does happen...
You can see next that the other midfielder near the wing doesn't close down the intended recepient. Why not? If they are going to be 7-10 steps off the pace directly in front of the ball, then at least please put some pressure on the intended recepient.
I can easy cycle right back to where the ball came from. Why? Because the central midfielders again have dropped back into their pre-designed spot and are starting the whole sequence over again. It's a reboot of illogical standards. Any of them should be closing down the intended recepient here.
---------------
This is 99% of the issues with the midfield in this game. They are not engaged with the intended recepient, and as a result the passing lanes are completely open. It is literally school-boy fundamental zonal defending being taught here. Any coach worth their salt teaches the position defensively of where the intended recepient could be. This is why when you go into advanced instructions hoping for a gegenpress - it's not a gegenpress at all. A gegenpress does not just press the ball carrier, it presses the intended recepient(s). The gegenpress cannot even take shape because the base fundamentals of this defending logic isn't even existing in the most basic forms yet.
If the real sport followed this logic, players would just stand there with the ball to draw out defending midfielders all match long. That is why it's so easy to pass in this game, and that is why it becomes lifeless in the spots where there should be moments of confrontation. Those who say it's because you're on PA1, that is just scooting around the core issue. The issue is that PES 20 struggles to grasp the concept of how to properly put pressure on the ball carrier and the intended recepient.
Hi Matt, like you, I would love more midfield resistance. But with klash tactics and the tactic adjustments mentioned a few days ago, my exhibition matches dont look like that. The midfield is tight and pretty swamped at times.
Still a bit too easy to play through but nothing like those shots above which look terrible. Although there are teams where the midfield drops back too often, I dont have that drastic an issue...
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
There was a time in which Adam reached out via twitter and asked for more example videos to be shown. To be fair, they did sort out the defensive midfield issues in 19 and 20, but it took a while to get there from 2017.
The biggest issue I see now is the passing lanes not being blocked. In addition, the defensive third attitude is lacking. The ball can be moved from side to side with no resistance, regardless of tactics or aggression level defensively. Instead of being 2-3 steps off to reach the ball carrier, they are 7-10 steps. Example here:
From the video, it's plain as day. The central midfielders are several steps behind. There's no reason to be. This is a team that is tactically set up to be aggressive. When my midfielder receives the ball, you'd expect someone to be there - even if they set up defensively conservative.
Yea , that does look very bad. Just 5 seconds in, the video already shows how defending players, that are not within 10 metres of the ball, are just not engaged with the play at all. Its like the CPU does not acknowledge free space or time to move in certain areas to be a threat. As long as they keep behind the ball and attack their own man when he gets the ball, theyve done their job.
Above, the guy with the ball can easily pass it to the midfield here without anyone actively preventing this or anticipating what this means. Defender 1 should at least make an effort cover passing lanes in an active manner. I can even forgive him not fully covering the most dangerous pass towards central midfield because maybe he also wants to cover the passing lane way back, forcing this more dangerous pass. But then either defender 2, or, preferably, 3, should come up the midfield more aggressivly so that if this pass is made, 1,2,3 can all close him in.
Instead, like you said, they are all mind blowing passive. Like, when the pass is already gone past him, defender 1 suddenly awakes and starts to pressure. Its like that everytime, very binairy. And while 1 is pressing, 2 and 3 decide to keep passive so he might as well not because its completely useless. Too little, too late. They all act as if the club didnt pay their salaries for 3 months so they just pretend to give a shit.
Like FHas said, this seems to be solvable with tactics but yeah, shouldnt be like this in the first place. Maybe anything below professional, sure, but not on professional and above.
Mr Regista
Conference
- 1 January 2020
There was a time in which Adam reached out via twitter and asked for more example videos to be shown. To be fair, they did sort out the defensive midfield issues in 19 and 20, but it took a while to get there from 2017.
The biggest issue I see now is the passing lanes not being blocked. In addition, the defensive third attitude is lacking. The ball can be moved from side to side with no resistance, regardless of tactics or aggression level defensively. Instead of being 2-3 steps off to reach the ball carrier, they are 7-10 steps. Example here:
From the video, it's plain as day. The central midfielders are several steps behind. There's no reason to be. This is a team that is tactically set up to be aggressive. When my midfielder receives the ball, you'd expect someone to be there - even if they set up defensively conservative.
Now my midfielder collects the ball, yet the two opposing midfielders are still in their exact same spot. They are in the "Ready" stance to engage, but why are they so far back? There is no sense of anticipation here. My midfielder can turn and face with ease, and draw in their midfielder to take him on. Even when the does happen...
You can see next that the other midfielder near the wing doesn't close down the intended recepient. Why not? If they are going to be 7-10 steps off the pace directly in front of the ball, then at least please put some pressure on the intended recepient.
I can easy cycle right back to where the ball came from. Why? Because the central midfielders again have dropped back into their pre-designed spot and are starting the whole sequence over again. It's a reboot of illogical standards. Any of them should be closing down the intended recepient here.
---------------
This is 99% of the issues with the midfield in this game. They are not engaged with the intended recepient, and as a result the passing lanes are completely open. It is literally school-boy fundamental zonal defending being taught here. Any coach worth their salt teaches the position defensively of where the intended recepient could be. This is why when you go into advanced instructions hoping for a gegenpress - it's not a gegenpress at all. A gegenpress does not just press the ball carrier, it presses the intended recepient(s). The gegenpress cannot even take shape because the base fundamentals of this defending logic isn't even existing in the most basic forms yet.
If the real sport followed this logic, players would just stand there with the ball to draw out defending midfielders all match long. That is why it's so easy to pass in this game, and that is why it becomes lifeless in the spots where there should be moments of confrontation. Those who say it's because you're on PA1, that is just scooting around the core issue. The issue is that PES 20 struggles to grasp the concept of how to properly put pressure on the ball carrier and the intended recepient.
if I had to guess I’d say Pisa we’re playing all out defence, middle, conservative.. 🤔 I’d probably play possession or long ball. Or at least have a number ten to get between the lines, are they set up 3-5-2? at times it looks like 5 at the back.. maybe they play ‘ ‘wing back’.. either way that’s a tough setup.
These games are a slog.
Very realistic.
Teams like this often need a taste of their own medicine. Do you have a big target man?? Or failing that just persevere with ball retention and recycling. A team of their quality will definitely make mistakes all over the pitch. Good luck 😬👍
Scottc17
RegistaTempo
- 27 May 2019
Trying to get a group of individual players to play 11v11 Positional Play system has been difficult, but when we pull it off, Damn it looks good, Here are some of our goals.
Those 45 seconds from 0:30 are brilliant. Imagine if single player AI vs cpu could replicate that aliveness and sheer edge of the seat gameplay...
Something definitely has changed with penalties against the AI. Already talked on reddir and I've now had 2 in 2, my video hasn't uploaded and I'm assuming it's down to psn network. Both won using simple quick ball shifts using right and left controls with a quick player