eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Emroth]

I never remember scripting in the golden generation PES's (5/6) being as bad as this

It never was. Sure there were AI goals we could do nothing about and last minute losses, but they were mainly due to great individuality and AI star players shinning.

Even in Pes17 I never felt this.
It all started in Pes18, but even there it was still manageable.
19 and 20 have some proper ridiculous moments though.
And the worst thing is - they are usually not due to AI doing something superhuman, but our own team being paralyzed and unable to do anything to stop it.

 

[martyl2]

It never was. Sure there were AI goals we could do nothing about and last minute losses, but they were mainly due to great individuality and AI star players shinning.

Even in Pes17 I never felt this.
It all started in Pes18, but even there it was still manageable.
19 and 20 have some proper ridiculous moments though.
And the worst thing is - they are usually not due to AI doing something superhuman, but our own team being paralyzed and unable to do anything to stop it.

I wonder if TP evens it out somewhat

 

[digimon]

See I wouldnt mind as much, if it "just" happened, as a quick counter, on same settings (when I still had a very attack-orientated team)
But I fucking knew they will go all "scripty" on me, so straight after the goal I went and changed everything to defensive. Also dropped bar to the very bottom to park the bus. All my players were around my penalty box and then this ground pass comes in and manages to go by every single one of them, through my whole half.. with such precision - this bloke should be a surgeon, not a footballer.
Anyway, bygones be bygones. Whatevs. New season now.

I've never had scripting like that in pes 2020 and I've been one of those all over the scripting in previous games. But on superstar even in master league I haven't had a goal that I just couldn't do anything about.

You feel the tide turn sometimes at that point I just boot the ball far from my goal. Or keep hold of it for a few minutes that normally stops all momentum they might be building.

 

[digimon]

It never was. Sure there were AI goals we could do nothing about and last minute losses, but they were mainly due to great individuality and AI star players shinning.

Even in Pes17 I never felt this.
It all started in Pes18, but even there it was still manageable.
19 and 20 have some proper ridiculous moments though.
And the worst thing is - they are usually not due to AI doing something superhuman, but our own team being paralyzed and unable to do anything to stop it.

Of course there was scripting in 4,5,6 on 5 or 6 star there were absolutely unstoppable goals.

 

[xPJRx]

These are awesome, great work! Think I'll have to add the Marvel kit as a 4th kit to my ML fantasy team. It really doesn't go well with the rock'n'roll theme I have going for my own kits, but I'm such a big marvel fan that I don't give a ****.

Also checked out some of the other kits on your site, they really are amazing.

Thanks Mate, appreciate the kind words.

 

[Chris Davies]

I've never had scripting like that in pes 2020 and I've been one of those all over the scripting in previous games. But on superstar even in master league I haven't had a goal that I just couldn't do anything about.

You feel the tide turn sometimes at that point I just boot the ball far from my goal. Or keep hold of it for a few minutes that normally stops all momentum they might be building.

It's happened less to me this year, but I've conceded at least two kick-off goals, for example. Where every pass the AI hits is to someone with nobody near him, and by the time you start moving a player there, the ball has already reached them and it's off towards someone else who is (miraculously) also unmarked, and after a couple more of those, it's a goal.

("Don't press them then" will be the reply from certain people, and those guys won't believe there are literal "you can't stop this going into the net" scenarios. All I'll say is, ignore this post then, because we will have to agree to disagree. I've seen it too many times and conceded too many goals where I've had no time to even think about pressing or not.)

Even that "simulation" video that's doing the rounds (by something Knight I think?) - which is great - acknowledges that any team will start playing perfect tiki-taka when it has to (Basel in the video).

 

[xPJRx]

The thing is, PES AI engine isn't clever enough to work out your styles of play, then react to them in a countering way, it does not identify key players on your team, or the way they play, or whether you play pass and move, or long ball, or possession football, then adapt its own style to counter-act you, it's not intelligent enough, instead, when it senses its behind what it does is totally reactive, it limits/lags/ignores your inputs, boosts it's own players stats and abilities, handicaps yours and completely dumbs the game down enough to gift itself a goal, or make sure you don't get one.

Its completely blatant, they don't even hide it, and the handicapping and scripting is worst in this game than its ever been in any PES.
Whether they don't have coders with the ability to code a proper intelligent AI, whether the technology isn't there within the AI field to cope with such advanced intelligent play, or whether they don't have time etc to implement it, I don't know but I do its shit and stinks and is blatantly noticeable.

Instead they use match templates which follow a distinct set of pre-determined rules and outcomes, and you can usually tell within a few minutes of each match by how responsive your players are, what the COM does etc as to which match template its following, over time you get to identify each one, its in your face.

 

[PRO_TOO]

@Emroth no Ping Pong here when i just played Crystal Palace at Aston Villa with PA1.
What I do noticed, after not having played assisted for month, it’s ridiculous!
So much freedom in passing is gone!! It’s like you drive a Porsche and never get higher than 3rd gear. Oh boy...

For all the users playing assisted, I can understand fully now how some situations of frustration can arise!! I’m feeling ya and I’m sorry.
this complete change in gameplay (for me it is) makes some discussions diluted (hope that’s the word)!

Sorry for ot!
It’s crazy. Really. Been driving the new Spa track in GTS this morning. Full manual (no clutch), and now I’m thinking about how I started playing racing games with assists enabled decades ago.

anyway... switched right back to manual and instantly it’s my game again. I decide what to do, I do the mistakes, I bring happiness or disaster to the team!

But I said that a thousand times. Just was noticing it so hard right now.
I’m off playing some more Palace vs. the EPL big ones!

 

[Emroth]

, instead, when it senses its behind what it does is totally reactive, it limits/lags/ignores your inputs, boosts it's own players stats and abilities, handicaps yours and completely dumbs the game down enough to gift itself a goal, or make sure you don't get one

Exactly my point.
Scripting was always there in Pes, but it was AI who was doing something remarkable, unpredictable and unstoppable.
Only last two years I feel like their new way of making it challenging is to handicap the user and his inputs. Also - adjust outcomes to whatever is happening on the pitch.

Our players suddenly start "forgetting" to take the ball with them after a tackle, or each tackled, loose ball goes right back to AI, every deflection goes to AI, all the passes go right by our players and not one of them is doing as much as stick a leg out to stop it.
And even if they do - they merely change the ball trajectory tiny bit... just enough to create even better opportunity for incoming AI striker.
I dont mind scripting - i just dont like when its so blatant and obvious that it insults my intelligence.

 

[Emroth]

@Emroth no Ping Pong here when i just played Crystal Palace at Aston Villa with PA1.

Thanks for checking it, pal. Must have been just pure coincidence.
Or - yOu ArE PlaYinG iT WroNg!!!

 

[fideco]

It never was. Sure there were AI goals we could do nothing about and last minute losses, but they were mainly due to great individuality and AI star players shinning.

Even in Pes17 I never felt this.
It all started in Pes18, but even there it was still manageable.
19 and 20 have some proper ridiculous moments though.
And the worst thing is - they are usually not due to AI doing something superhuman, but our own team being paralyzed and unable to do anything to stop it.

I've never felt this feeling of scripting with Vanilla version 1.0 that I'm playing with (Top Player - M.L. 10 min H.T.))

 

[Negatrev]

Exactly my point.
Scripting was always there in Pes, but it was AI who was doing something remarkable, unpredictable and unstoppable.
Only last two years I feel like their new way of making it challenging is to handicap the user and his inputs. Also - adjust outcomes to whatever is happening on the pitch.

Our players suddenly start "forgetting" to take the ball with them after a tackle, or each tackled, loose ball goes right back to AI, every deflection goes to AI, all the passes go right by our players and not one of them is doing as much as stick a leg out to stop it.
And even if they do - they merely change the ball trajectory tiny bit... just enough to create even better opportunity for incoming AI striker.
I dont mind scripting - i just dont like when its so blatant and obvious that it insults my intelligence.

I feel that AI tech isn't good enough yet to get what we really want. But I also think KONAMI needs to spend more time with analysis on the psychology of positive/negative outcomes.

People are far happier to not manage to achieve something 'extra' than to lose something they felt was theirs. So it really hurts when you know your player used to be able to do something and then they suddenly can't (with no justification). It's not ideal, but I'm happier if my players still control in the exact same way by the opposition has certain stats boosted to impede me in that way. So it changes from me winning 50% of headers, to winning 20% as the CBs have had a boost to a couple of stats. Of course, depending on how good you are, this might not be enough to stop a human unfortunately.

The biggest issue with it in PES is that it's too sudden and obvious. If it was smoothed by having small increments over time to slowly increase the challenge, that would be more palatable for me. Until they can do some truly exciting machine learning in the future that is.

 

[Emroth]

People are far happier to not manage to achieve something 'extra' than to lose something they felt was theirs. So it really hurts when you know your player used to be able to do something and then they suddenly can't (with no justification)

This. 100%.
In the past, when script kicked in, when AI needed a goal, they passed the ball to some Zidane and he did the rest. Danced through few of our players and smashed it in. It was frustrating, but

A) it was somewhat realistic - coz it was Zidane
B) you felt like you could target your frustration.
You could just scream his name and call him bald twat and it felt better.

Now im sitting there, looking at my players standing around like bunch of street cones, suddenly I cant tackle anybody - it just feels so... unfair.
Coz its not them, who are better. Its you who is being punished for playing well.

Feels like Jean Claude Van Damme, when they had to blind him to gain advantage.

 

[Chuny]

This. 100%.
In the past, when script kicked in, when AI needed a goal, they passed the ball to some Zidane and he did the rest. Danced through few of our players and smashed it in. It was frustrating, but

A) it was somewhat realistic - coz it was Zidane
B) you felt like you could target your frustration.
You could just scream his name and call him bald twat and it felt better.

Now im sitting there, looking at my players standing around like bunch of street cones, suddenly I cant tackle anybody - it just feels so... unfair.
Coz its not them, who are better. Its you who is being punished for playing well.

Feels like Jean Claude Van Damme, when they had to blind him to gain advantage.
View attachment 23847

You're being a racist again.
Racist towards balds and Zidanes.
Please stop it.

 

[Negatrev]

Feels like Jean Claude Van Damme, when they had to blind him to gain advantage.
View attachment 23847

...but look at how much more satisfying it was for him when he won

 

[Flipper the Priest]

Turned it up a notch to Legendary a couple of days ago. Now then...

I thought I was living a charmed life, barely noticing any of the criticisms leveled at the game. No more.

I play a wide game, relying on the flanks to attack through my full backs and wingers. Without any changes to tactics, my full backs no longer seem interested in overlapping and my wingers have been neutered by being either muscled off the ball or caught in a foot race. By anyone.

Nevertheless I shall persevere and try to adjust. I might even have to learn how to dribble!

 

[slamsoze]

Does anyone remember the max capacity of SMALL (1024x1024) kits? I am around 790 now and want to import on more OF to my second profile. Not a complete OF , just 14 teams. (14x APPROX. 3 kits=42 kits).

 

[herodownunder]

Exactly my point.
Scripting was always there in Pes, but it was AI who was doing something remarkable, unpredictable and unstoppable.
Only last two years I feel like their new way of making it challenging is to handicap the user and his inputs. Also - adjust outcomes to whatever is happening on the pitch.

Our players suddenly start "forgetting" to take the ball with them after a tackle, or each tackled, loose ball goes right back to AI, every deflection goes to AI, all the passes go right by our players and not one of them is doing as much as stick a leg out to stop it.
And even if they do - they merely change the ball trajectory tiny bit... just enough to create even better opportunity for incoming AI striker.
I dont mind scripting - i just dont like when its so blatant and obvious that it insults my intelligence.

Very well said. F#ck em.

 

[SP83]

Team Spirit is what screws this game up.

It plays wonderful in exhibition mode.

You go into ML, make a few signings, team spirit goes to 50 something and your new £20mill striker can't hit a cow with a banjo, that's if the rest of the idiots in your team can get the ball up to him to begin with.

Surely an option to turn this wretched feature on or off could be implemented. It's making playing a ML on Superstar nigh on impossible.

I might try going manual tomorrow, dropping it to top player and giving it a go in ML. I'm not sure what else to do cos I can't just play exhibition games all year.

 

[Negatrev]

Team Spirit is what screws this game up.

It plays wonderful in exhibition mode.

You go into ML, make a few signings, team spirit goes to 50 something and your new £20mill striker can't hit a cow with a banjo, that's if the rest of the idiots in your team can get the ball up to him to begin with.

Surely an option to turn this wretched feature on or off could be implemented. It's making playing a ML on Superstar nigh on impossible.

I might try going manual tomorrow, dropping it to top player and giving it a go in ML. I'm not sure what else to do cos I can't just play exhibition games all year.

The problem with TS isn't that it exists. It's how it's reflected in a game. Adding one new player shouldn't see the whole team suddenly have worse stats. It should only see that one player performing poorly. Even then, TS should only effect their mental stats, so movement, positioning and timing, not slow them down

I like the idea of new players not slotting in perfectly unless they're already used to your exact stats. The numbers for TS are fine. Just implement it more subtly. Use a scalpel, not a hammer!

 

[Emroth]

Adding one new player shouldn't see the whole team suddenly have worse stats

...or better. I find even more ridonkulous the idea of buying A player, putting him in starting 11 for the first time and seeing team spirit going up by 10, just coz he has some playmaker or some other bollox in his passport...

 

[Emroth]

Full Manual Joys and Sorrows

 

[Stringer]

Does anyone remember the max capacity of SMALL (1024x1024) kits? I am around 790 now and want to import on more OF to my second profile. Not a complete OF , just 14 teams. (14x APPROX. 3 kits=42 kits).

According to PESWorld:

Well, this totally depends on you and which you'd prefer, higher qulaity kits limted to approximately 360 in total or kits of a lower resolution and quality of which you can add over 1000 to your game.

 

[Orregon]

Where do I find the Fuma community on this game, especially the 11vs11 locked rooms guys ^^

 

[Sobakus]

It's 1100 something kits I think. But that's without sponsor images, stadiums, etc. You could probably see the number remaining if you import one or two kits manually first. It sucks how limited it is...

@Orregon on peswe they do something like that... I think I saw one of the guys who organizes it here, with the CSKA logo, but i'm not sure if it's the same guy.

 

[Jimi_Zuko]

Hey fellas, Lami suggested a while back to have auto offside set to on for the user so the defensive line doesn’t run away from the attackers, definitely has made the game much better to play, iv also set the AI teams to auto offside to on and game plays even better as well, the AI doesn’t act stupid at the back trying to get to its predetermined position before they respond to the attack, game is awesome now, goals are getting that earning feeling, this is all on professional by the way the higher levels don’t enjoy it, the AI tends to have steel legs when you try to tackle, the scripting above pro is terrible to play on. Yeah this is great.

 

[MadmaxG79]

I'm not saying there's no scripting in PES. In fact I'm fully convinced there is.

But I think the reason scripting doesn't bother me as much on the core level, apart from the fact that it happens very rarely, if ever, on professional, is that I consider it a challenge to 'beat the script'. I've had situations where I was certain that the CPU would score in the last minutes just to see an exceptional save from my keeper that keeps me in and secures me that 1-0 win or 1-1 draw or whatever it is I'm fighting for. Or matches where it felt like my players where suddenly all -20 i OVR and I was doomed, only to see me score a winning goal in the 85th minute. These are the moments that sometimes makes me literally jump out of my seat while playing. And I don't think I'd have those moments in single player if it wasn't for the scripting.

I remember the old pre-scripting ISS days. I would eventually get so good at it that I would consistently win at least 3-0 (or thereabouts) on the hardest difficulty, even when using small teams against the biggest teams. It got really boring really fast.

But to each his own and I think if only Konami let the users decide for themselves in difficulty settings whether or not they want the scripting in there - we probably wouldn't be having these discussions over and over.

 

[Negatrev]

I'm not saying there's no scripting in PES. In fact I'm fully convinced there is.

But I think the reason scripting doesn't bother me as much on the core level, apart from the fact that it happens very rarely, if ever, on professional, is that I consider it a challenge to 'beat the script'. I've had situations where I was certain that the CPU would score in the last minutes just to see an exceptional save from my keeper that keeps me in and secures me that 1-0 win or 1-1 draw or whatever it is I'm fighting for. Or matches where it felt like my players where suddenly all -20 i OVR and I was doomed, only to see me score a winning goal in the 85th minute. These are the moments that sometimes makes me literally jump out of my seat while playing. And I don't think I'd have those moments in single player if it wasn't for the scripting.

I remember the old pre-scripting ISS days. I would eventually get so good at it that I would consistently win at least 3-0 (or thereabouts) on the hardest difficulty, even when using small teams against the biggest teams. It got really boring really fast.

But to each his own and I think if only Konami let the users decide for themselves in difficulty settings whether or not they want the scripting in there - we probably wouldn't be having these discussions over and over.

I don't think it's that people aren't prepared to try and beat the handicapping. It's that it quite often (mostly on the higher difficulty levels) becomes dull to do so because it forces you down a few successful routes. The handicapping on Pro (the level I've also decided is the most fun) gives you challenging moments that still give you freedom to express yourself.

 

[slamsoze]

According to PESWorld:

It's 1100 something kits I think. But that's without sponsor images, stadiums, etc. You could probably see the number remaining if you import one or two kits manually first. It sucks how limited it is...

@Orregon on peswe they do something like that... I think I saw one of the guys who organizes it here, with the CSKA logo, but i'm not sure if it's the same guy.

Thanx for the replies dudes.. I really appreciate... @Sobakus yes it is show when importing, but this year it flashes very fast, so i can't catch up to check the number usually. I am also aware that the rest logos affect the whole capacity!!
Do you know what really sucks?? I have to scroll down and search among 750+ kits now, to search and delete the kits i have not used!!!


Something OT: It is obvious that they did n't rebuild the database structure, as it was said last year (EDIT000000.bin file) . They just expanded it some way to just fit the "new" 2nd divisions + the new leagues + the new European NT teams. It is obvious , when you are in the EUROPEAN national teams menu and scroll down fast, the game make little blinks and stutters, it is not scrolling down smoothly, or with the same speed constantly.

I hope when they go to the next gen, they will upgrade for real the edit engine, cause it is really dated by now, it has a ps2/ps3 structure.

 

[Alx1234]

Hey fellas, Lami suggested a while back to have auto offside set to on for the user so the defensive line doesn’t run away from the attackers, definitely has made the game much better to play, iv also set the AI teams to auto offside to on and game plays even better as well, the AI doesn’t act stupid at the back trying to get to its predetermined position before they respond to the attack, game is awesome now, goals are getting that earning feeling, this is all on professional by the way the higher levels don’t enjoy it, the AI tends to have steel legs when you try to tackle, the scripting above pro is terrible to play on. Yeah this is great.

how are you setting this? By editing the team tactics in the edit section?

if so, I wonder what @klashman69 's opinion is on this - should I be changing all the edited teams to have this setting on?

(O/T but is the "download asset data" happening more often then it was pre-patch. the more i see this pop-up the more i get suspicious of game manipulation. yep - i'm konaminoid )


Edit : @Jimi_Zuko Just played my recent usual Spurs vs Shaktar with the settings on for both teams, CPU now has more order like in a real match and Kane finally feels like a threat - previously he hasn't for me. More of the gameplay in the final third. of the pitch. Lost it 2-0 but it was a btter match than some of the ones I've played recently. Thanks