eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[SteveWAFC]

No, you're not pushing a myth saying that. If you read my post again...



This is the myth. No FIFA players that I know say "Wow look at the graphics on PES, they're superior I must buy it!"

Not buy it, but definitely be more tempted to try it out. You don’t buy a game unless you like how it plays.

I know a few friends who play Fifa (oh my god, an offline player has friends, what is happening) and they were tempted at trying PES for the first time a few years ago just because of the details put into the turf i.e. More detailed and clippings of grass flying off the boot etc.

 

[Madmac79]

No, you're not pushing a myth saying that. If you read my post again...



This is the myth. No FIFA players that I know say "Wow look at the graphics on PES, they're superior I must buy it!"

On that I agree but I still can't see how can you Say that nothing looks real. I agree there are palette problems (especially in the sun) and maybe faces ones (I admit I don't pay much attention to It) but for the rest I think It objectively moves very good. Or not?

 

[Chuny]

Stadiums in PES are spectacular. And that's something the other game, with far more gear, tools and chronology, haven't been able to replicate. Stadiums in PES are photo-realistic. But in the other game, they look plastic.

@Mikhail Although it's not that FOX ENGINE is bad per se it's just badly tuned.
Sorry for the PC talk in the consoles thread, but it's necessary in order to prove my point:

Now, I'm not looking to throw flowers at me, but as you can see, things CAN look better than PES vanilla.

 

[Peter Withe]

Stadiums in PES are spectacular. And that's something the other game, with far more gear, tools and chronology, haven't been able to replicate. Stadiums in PES are photo-realistic. But in the other game, they look plastic.

@Mikhail Although it's not that FOX ENGINE is bad per se it's just badly tuned.
Sorry for the PC talk in the consoles thread, but it's necessary in order to prove my point:

Now, I'm not looking to throw flowers at me, but as you can see, things CAN look better than PES vanilla.

Those pitches look amazing!

 

[Gale Kast]

oh yes that one player you took screenshot of represents all...

regardless of course there are spammers online, it doesnt change fact if you play with a like minded person you are not gonna get that, using it as an excuse for kick off goals or last min goals doesnt wash. this is what the original debate was of course

on pes 13 you could counter crazy spammers, i use to stop the OP throughball by man marking their strikers or playing sweeper etc, you could get joy from a well excecuted game plan

since pes 14 onwards its all scripted, if the game decides its time for a goal then by god its time for a goal! scripting may have always existed but since pes 14 its been blatantly influencing results

Quite frankly if you aren't seeing these ridiculous formations then I don't know what game you are playing online. Online divisions is literally full of this sort of thing especially when you start playing higher ranked players.

As for countering spam, yes it's possible, I was equally good at it on 2013, it probably infuriated them even more as I never used any players above an 83 or so rating. However, when I play online I want it to represent real football. I am yet to watch a game this year where every single pass is first touch, I am yet to see a game this year where one team fires low through balls every time they get possession anywhere on the pitch. I am yet to see any team start with a 4-2-4 formation and it not effect their midfield at all. These things all need fixing or online can not really be classed as a football match, it's just nice graphics pong.

 

[Peter Withe]

On that I agree but I still can't see how can you Say that nothing looks real. I agree there are palette problems (especially in the sun) and maybe faces ones (I admit I don't pay much attention to It) but for the rest I think It objectively moves very good. Or not?

Yes I think some of the animations are fantastic mate.

I just hate the general look of the game this year, looks dated to me.

 

[Chuny]

Those pitches look amazing!

Thank you mate.
Then again, I didn't post them so I could look good. Really.
OK maybe a little love wouldn't be bad.

BUT STILL, I think Konami/PES could do MUCH MUCH better on the graphics-side of the game even with the same engine.

 

[elfie]

After telling myself i would wait i caved today and bought the game. (I'm 50 years old, some day I'll grow up and become a sensible man).

Only played 3 games sofar, all patched, and the difference with the demo is big.
I played the demo alot so can really tell the difference.

- final game feels a bit faster
- less fluid
- a whole lot less "loose"
- lots of shielding by the cpu
- cpu is more difficult to beat, they give you less space

sofar i feel a bit meh. 3rd game felt better so maybe i'm getting used to it.
The cpu fouled me a couple of times so not bad.

Seeing some positives and negatives. It's certainly a lot better than '18 which was my last pes game.
Here's hoping the October patch improves the game a bit more, but all in all i'm fine with it now.
Only spent 30 euro's as i bought it second hand, seems there are quite a few people here who are putting their copy up for sale.

Diving back in.

 

[Emroth]

Stadiums in PES are spectacular. And that's something the other game, with far more gear, tools and chronology, haven't been able to replicate. Stadiums in PES are photo-realistic. But in the other game, they look plastic

Very true.
I have to admit - turf is one of those things that dont bother me in the slightest, so I dont even notice those yellow ones that some people hate so much this year.
Nonetheless one cant deny that the work you are doing looks amazing. If even I can see the difference - there must be a huge one.

Slight off topic - also fully agree about stadiums in the other game. Sometimes I wondered playing Fifa - whats the point of having so many different stadiums in EPL, when they all look so similar? I honestly had a feeling I was playing on the same one quite often.
Atmosphere is a whole different discussion, but stadiums are amazing on Pes.

 

[fefepes]

Quite frankly if you aren't seeing these ridiculous formations then I don't know what game you are playing online. Online divisions is literally full of this sort of thing especially when you start playing higher ranked players.

As for countering spam, yes it's possible, I was equally good at it on 2013, it probably infuriated them even more as I never used any players above an 83 or so rating. However, when I play online I want it to represent real football. I am yet to watch a game this year where every single pass is first touch, I am yet to see a game this year where one team fires low through balls every time they get possession anywhere on the pitch. I am yet to see any team start with a 4-2-4 formation and it not effect their midfield at all. These things all need fixing or online can not really be classed as a football match, it's just nice graphics pong.

i dont play pes online anymore because of scripting

but i have no issues with another human brain using freedom of tactics to come up with a winning formula no it adds to the competion. its konamis fault for leaving holes to exploit like OP through balls or PA2/3 etc

but once again the original debate at hand was that kick off goals happen in local multiplayer with myself and my cousin, 2 simulation type players. so whilst brigning up spammers online might distract people it doesnt change the fact that it isnt an excuse for kick off goals

 

[SteveWAFC]

Thank you mate.
Then again, I didn't post them so I could look good. Really.
OK maybe a little love wouldn't be bad.

BUT STILL, I think Konami/PES could do MUCH MUCH better on the graphics-side of the game even with the same engine.

Those screenshots were all PC, right?

 

[xPJRx]

@Chuny - with all respect dude, whats the point of posting pics of how PES looks on PC in a PS4/XBOX thread? there are vastly different, different hardware, rendering routines, resolution etc. Especially as you are using Turf mods too.
We are talking about how the colours and lighting and shading looks in a PS4 version of the game, the 2 are non-comparable.

@Emroth - Apologies for mentioning FIFA here but its only in direct response to the original comment, as someone who played 11 career mode seasons of FIFA 19, the stadiums do look vastly different and have a different feel, just most people dont see it because they use the default cam, or tele cam, I played on Zoomed out broadcast cam which gave a good view of the stands too, massive distinction between Anfield vs Emirates vs Old Trafford vs Turf Moor vs Vitality stadium etc.
Also on broadcast the camera angle and sweep changes per ground, most noticeable at Bournemouth's VItality where the zoom is so much closer and you the space on the pitch looks tighter, you could really feel the intimate atmosphere, and is one of the biggest immersion factors that made every game feel different.

I'm sick and tired of playing a midweek SkyBet championship match in PES against Leeds in a euro-bowl style 60,000 cap stadium. the lack of smaller stadiums with unique details kills ML, and Konami don't seem to care.

 

[xPJRx]

See I thought that, but I watch my tv on HDMI1 and play my games on HDMI2, it adjusts the settings automatically, so I’m not using the same settings for tv and gaming.

Irrelevant really, forget tv and movies then, everything you watch on HDMI2, ie games, all look good? yes? but PES doesnt.
Yes you can tweak it to look better by changing the in game settings but you should NEVER change your global Tv settings to accomodate it as your just knocking everything else on HDMI2 out of whack.

The problem lies with PES's poor handling of colours, lighting and use of the HDR setting. NOT your Tv being slight off-calibration.

 

[Chuny]

@Chuny - with all respect dude, whats the point of posting pics of how PES looks on PC in a PS4/XBOX thread? there are vastly different, different hardware, rendering routines, resolution etc. Especially as you are using Turf mods too.
We are talking about how the colours and lighting and shading looks in a PS4 version of the game, the 2 are non-comparable.

Already explained why I posted it.
My point is that it's not the Engine. It's lack of will, or talent, or man-power.
If they wanted to, every stadium could have different type of pitches, different color schemes, etc.

 

[SteveWAFC]

@Emroth - Apologies for mentioning FIFA here but its only in direct response to the original comment, as someone who played 11 career mode seasons of FIFA 19, the stadiums do look vastly different and have a different feel, just most people dont see it because they use the default cam, or tele cam, I played on Zoomed out broadcast cam which gave a good view of the stands too, massive distinction between Anfield vs Emirates vs Old Trafford vs Turf Moor vs Vitality stadium etc.
Also on broadcast the camera angle and sweep changes per ground, most noticeable at Bournemouth's VItality where the zoom is so much closer and you the space on the pitch looks tighter, you could really feel the intimate atmosphere, and is one of the biggest immersion factors that made every game feel different.

I'm sick and tired of playing a midweek SkyBet championship match in PES against Leeds in a euro-bowl style 60,000 cap stadium. the lack of smaller stadiums with unique details kills ML, and Konami don't seem to care.

This. I’ve always thought that the other game did a half decent job at most PL stadiums (although Old Trafford never really felt like Old Trafford) and if you want to notice the contrast between the stadiums, there’s no other camera than Broadcast really. But my biggest gripe about both games is the lack of realistic looking smaller stadiums in that one and just the lack of them in PES. That’s something that really needs to be worked on.

 

[SteveWAFC]

Irrelevant really, forget tv and movies then, everything you watch on HDMI2, ie games, all look good? yes? but PES doesnt.
Yes you can tweak it to look better by changing the in game settings but you should NEVER change your global Tv settings to accomodate it as your just knocking everything else on HDMI2 out of whack.

The problem lies with PES's poor handling of colours, lighting and use of the HDR setting. NOT your Tv being slight off-calibration.

Hard to say really, as I only play PES on PS haha.

Oh I’m not saying that PES doesn’t deserve the blame, it absolutely does because, in my opinion, the pitches were better last year. I’m just saying that you can somewhat fix it. You shouldn’t have to, granted, but you can.

 

[xPJRx]

Already explained why I posted it.
My point is that it's not the Engine. It's lack of will, or talent, or man-power.
If they wanted to, every stadium could have different type of pitches, different color schemes, etc.

OK Mate, was never under the impression that it was the engine, we know its not as we see the quality work that's done with mods, and this isn't even professional gfx artists or coders usually, but Dave a plumber from ilford, who has vastly improved konami's product within weeks.
Its blatantly a lack of effort, which is always blamed on the age old 'we have a much smaller team and limited resource' excuse.

If thats the case, spend some of that 140 million profit you made last fiscal year on hiring some guys off the forums to build mods which you can then include in your damn game at release. literally no excuse.

Comes back full circle to the fact that attention and effort is only invested in the parts of the product that can directly profit Konami - Ie ONLINE.
They changed the whole name of the game to suit online for gods sake, no further proof needed where their priorities lie.

 

[Emroth]

@xPJRx true. Im definetely to be partially blamed there, as I dont use broadcast cam. But I do see stadiums during celebrations and replays and I dont find them to be unique, or vastly different. Nothing was standing out, if you know what I mean.
But again - might be just me and my complete lack of focus towards elements that dont bother me. I was never annoyed by this. It was simply an observation, or a thought that crossed my mind on few occasions.

Pes is screaming for small stadiums for ages now. Thank God we have option to at least edit turf, nets and seats.. im trying to make them as personalised as I possibly can with the given tools.. with each team I google the stadium, looking for most similar and edit it, before i move on to the next team.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

I'm sick and tired of playing a midweek SkyBet championship match in PES against Leeds in a euro-bowl style 60,000 cap stadium. the lack of smaller stadiums with unique details kills ML, and Konami don't seem to care.

The developer's obliviousness is well-covered ground, but I'm not tired of sticking my oar in!

St Mirren's default home ground is Konami Stadium:

IRL:

It's, at best, ignorant and, at worst, arrogant of Konami to think this is unimportant.

I'm of the old guard. The stadium is but a cut scene before a match and gameplay is king. But there's a large, LARGE demographic that flips that pyramid of importance.

Is there seriously no aware person(s) available at Konami to comb through the game and flag up these things?

 

[SteveWAFC]

I’ll never understand why PES removed the ‘create your own stadium’ feature..

 

[xPJRx]

@xPJRx true. Im definetely to be partially blamed there, as I dont use broadcast cam. But I do see stadiums during celebrations and replays and I dont find them to be unique, or vastly different. Nothing was standing out, if you know what I mean.

Depends how you look at stadium distinction really.
Every stadium is either 4 sides, seats, a pitch and 2 goals.
Or
A 'wraparound' style bowl stadium. there isnt much variation in stadiums in real life anyway.
What makes them unique, and stand out is the details:
Crowd - home and away positioning
Atmosphere - chants, banners etc
Camera angles being unique to each stadium due to the real life camera placements
adboards - relevant to home and away teams

When all you have to choose from is an identikit stadium, limited Turf patterns, limited camera angles, MyClub and 'Matchday' adboards everywhere in every stadium, all the time and generic german banners in the stands, and crap such as 'Attack Attack' and 'Who Ate all the pies' then its beyond a laughing stock.

 

[Peter Withe]

The developer's obliviousness is well-covered ground, but I'm not tired of sticking my oar in!

St Mirren's default home ground is Konami Stadium:

IRL:

It's, at best, ignorant and, at worst, arrogant of Konami to think this is unimportant.

I'm of the old guard. The stadium is but a cut scene before a match and gameplay is king. But there's a large, LARGE demographic that flips that pyramid of importance.

Is there seriously no aware person(s) available at Konami to comb through the game and flag up these things?

That's the most Konami/PES thing ever, right there

 

[xPJRx]

I’ll never understand why PES removed the ‘create your own stadium’ feature..

The official statement was that it was a licensing issue, and EA were getting heavy on them providing tools that allowed the user to make realistic looking stadia as they owned the licensing to alot of stadiums.
However, this was complete and utter total 'cover your ass' bullshit.

There were no licensing issues, how do you think 2k get away with their extensive CaW customisation options for their WWE games?
It was purely a case that the stadium editor was in PES 12 (and maybe PES13?) then they changed over to the new fox engine for PES 14, all the assets for the stadium editor, the 3d models of parts of the stadium, etc etc were not compatible and couldn't be carried across, so they removed it, and blamed the licensing.
They have never ever bothered to put any effort into rebuilding it within FOX.

 

[PRO_TOO]

The developer's obliviousness is well-covered ground, but I'm not tired of sticking my oar in!

St Mirren's default home ground is Konami Stadium:

IRL:

It's, at best, ignorant and, at worst, arrogant of Konami to think this is unimportant.

I'm of the old guard. The stadium is but a cut scene before a match and gameplay is king. But there's a large, LARGE demographic that flips that pyramid of importance.

Is there seriously no aware person(s) available at Konami to comb through the game and flag up these things?

yes. and there are small stadiums in the game they could assign...
but they COULD do so much stuff (and its a lot of small things) to enhance the game so massivly!!
i'm not asking why anymore... i just take it for what it is and move on.

edit: when weedens prod. gets a job at konami lately (and i like his work A LOT!!)... why is konami not giving a couple of bucks to @Chuny and @klashman69 for example!? weedens had so much more better looking footage to edit!
win, win, win!!

 

[Minamoto]

We really should be able to edit or create our own stadiums.

With regards to online formations, last year in particular was really bad for players putting 4 or 5 players as far forward as the could then sticking the rest at the back.

These games were hoofball.

I’ve played Liverpool 7 out of 9 games today.

When challenged each one to a man has said they are Pool supporters.

It’s really odd as last year there were a lot of Juventus supporters, maybe they haven’t taken up PES this year.

I’ve blocked the ones who have used Liverpool the last 5 games.

Also regarding comments about online players being youngsters, have to say I’m not convinced. In recent years I’ve always thought of PES as being an older gamers choice of game. I just can’t see kids choosing it over the other footy game. Can kids really be bothered downloading the option files? Can they really be bothered trying to learn PES which is more complicated?

I’m frustrated today but I’m experienced enough to know the game will change back in a few days and I will get back control of my players and start winning again.

The way PES works online really is one of the worlds great mysteries.

 

[Chuny]

The developer's obliviousness is well-covered ground, but I'm not tired of sticking my oar in!

St Mirren's default home ground is Konami Stadium:

IRL:

It's, at best, ignorant and, at worst, arrogant of Konami to think this is unimportant.

I'm of the old guard. The stadium is but a cut scene before a match and gameplay is king. But there's a large, LARGE demographic that flips that pyramid of importance.

Is there seriously no aware person(s) available at Konami to comb through the game and flag up these things?

I don't think it's flipping the pyramid. I can't pick elements apart.
It's 2019. We have virtual reality. We're on the verge of having flying cars.
We have open-world games that render millions of elements as you move, in 4K quality, entire cities (maps) in real-time without a sweat and they look insanely good and realistic. With everything that envolves (people walking, cars passing by, planes flying across the sky, etc).

Games need to be judged as a package. Personally (and don't mean to offend you) I'm tired of seeing or reading things like "gameplay is all that matters". You're not paying $5 for gameplay, $5 for graphics, $5 for broadcast package, etc. You're paying $50 (at the very least) for a package.

Back in the PS2 days, I wouldn't even stop and say "hmm... I'd like the turf to be more detailed, or greener" or whatever. It wouldn't even cross my mind. But it's not 2004 anymore.

I want photo-realistic graphics, with tons of options.
And I want a gameplay that tries to simulate football the best way possible, as complex as it is, with tons of options to customize it as well.

It's 2019.

 

[SteveWAFC]

Why does a user who chooses to play as Liverpool have to support Liverpool, exactly? I don’t get that.

 

[xPJRx]

I don't think it's flipping the pyramid. I can't pick elements apart.
It's 2019. We have virtual reality. We're on the verge of having flying cars.
We have open-world games that render millions of elements as you move in real-time.
Games need to be judge as a package. Personally (and don't mean to offend you) I'm tired of seeing or reading things like "gameplay is all that matters". You're not paying $5 for gameplay, $5 for graphics, $5 for broadcast package, etc. You're paying $50 for a package.

Back in the PS2 days, I wouldn't even stop and say "hmm... I'd like the turf to be more detailed, or greener" or whatever. It wouldn't even cross my mind. But it's not 2004 anymore.

I want photo-realistic graphics, with tons of options.
And I want a gameplay that tries to simulate football the best way possible, as complex as it is, with tons of options to customize it as well.

It's 2019.

Perfect Post. 100%
'Gameplay is King' doesn't hold up anymore.
I've been saying this on various forums for years, that Konami never manage to delivery a polished product.
It's either gameplay is good, or Content is ok, theres never a well rounded 'finished' package.

They get so many little details wrong, thats its embarassing, to the point that I often wonder if the japanese actually understand football or the largely western culture that buys their products.

 

[rojofa]

It's ridiculous - they boast about having licensed leagues from Denmark, Belgium, Russia, Turkey, Switzerland, Scotland etc... Yet their implementation is absolutely shit. They might as well be unlicensed with how little effort they put in.

Each of those leagues probably has 2 licensed stadiums at best, they don't even replicate the TV presentation/scoreboards properly, only a few players in the top teams have real faces (and the generic faces are awful), the crowds don't sound authentic to that country or unique to a team etc... Pretty much the only "licensed" content is the kits, badges and ball. I don't see the point in having these leagues "licensed" if this is how they go about it.

 

[digimon]

it does same in local multiplayer offline

Again this is not something I have experienced in offline play at all. There is no pattern to when I conceded just various times depending.