eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

hitmanuk said:
I play on SS full manual and don't see these issues. No freekick issues probably conceded 3 in total all the others either saved or mostly blocked, same AI goals I don't see I think it's very varied, fouls could be more but I'm getting more than 18 and 19 and probably comparable to 17.
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I don't think I've conceded a free kick at all yet against the AI - I just move the keeper over after they've started their run-up and jump with the wall. It's been either saved or blocked every time so far at least...

AI attacks/goals seem to depend on the team's tactical setup. Some teams are just absolutely shite by default, Man United being one of them - in my EL with Schalke they were my easiest game defensively as all they did was pump the ball long to Rashford. I'm guessing they didn't alter their tactics after Lukaku left, but even with a bigger striker I can't imagine this ever being effective the way they do it. Every time just booting it long to the striker with little/no support around him.

Other teams have played decent football by working the ball up the pitch with shorter passes (and occasional dribbles), but all teams still seem to have a reluctance to cross the ball in. Most of the time I just block the AI's passing option in the middle for when they inevitably try to cut inside while using secondary pressure and they just run into a tackle. When they do occasionally whip a cross in then they have decent success, I just wish they put more balls into the box.

Fouls look like enough in purely numbers, especially if you can bait slide tackles then avoid them, but there's still issues looking beyond that. Standing tackles are very rarely punished (and never if inside the box) and perfectly clean tackles get called fouls. This is the same both for me and the CPU, I get away with far more than I should as well and sometimes I'm guilty of just charging in without thinking, because it's actively rewarded.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I was getting a bit fed up of feeling like dribbling was useless, that the AI's defenders could just suck the ball off your foot at will whenever you got too close, and that every "loose ball" wasn't actually loose, but would always (and I do mean always) end up heading towards a player, like a pin to a magnet.

So I dropped down to Professional difficulty and... Oh my God. I mean, it's like the curtain to the game's inner workings is pulled back for you to see what goes on in Top Player and Superstar.

Your player's response times improve, the AI's defending isn't overpowered, when they tackle the ball it goes truly loose and ends up in space, deflections go anywhere (not just wide of goal, or to a defender)...

So, now I'm really angry. Because the way that the game manipulates difficulty - as @xPJRx posted earlier - is to impede your control. That's nothing new for PES (and it's why I've never been able to truly love the game in 10+ years, it's always been like this - I'd call it AI cheating, some call it scripting I think).

But to feel what the game is like when those restrictions aren't there, it is crazy. It's like playing PES 2021 or something, because your players respond to your input, and the results of certain actions (shots, deflections) are so clearly no longer being influenced by an invisible God putting them in the perfect place for the AI.

On Top Player/Superstar, I've never seen a goal like this:
(Also, check out the ridiculous expressions)


And I've never seen the AI mess up a shot like this, this would be a clinical shot or a ridiculous save on the higher levels:


So tonight I'm going to keep trying and hope it doesn't get too easy.
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Nice. I saw quite a few of those deflected goals in the demo on top player, but haven't seen them go in yet in the full game.

I have to try this for myself, but top player with a decent team is already a bit too easy, so I fear professional won't cut it long term, unless you stick with the default ML players for your entire career or something.
 
digimon said:
They definitely do mate. If you bring on a fast attacker in the last 10-15 minutes defenders can't keep up.
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Aye of course because your sub has full energy. Thats not the point i was making. You keep 11 men on til the 90 mins and goto gameplan and have a look at the energy levels. Your forwards and mids will have less than your defenders.
 
I've been playing Professional + PA0 and I've been really enjoying myself. I bumped it up to Top Player when I played Liverpool, and, though I won 1-0 (free kick), it felt so dramatically different in terms of the ball going straight to the opposition or my players getting shoved off the ball.

I then had a Top Player game against some Turkish side in the UEL and it was a lot more palatable. The stats and the difficulty are clearly both huge factors in how effectively the AI plays and how easily you can pressure them into mistakes, but the perfect storm of the two does stop the game from feeling as free and human, in my experience. I just think that pressing against professional is a bit too easy, otherwise I'd be more than happy to keep the AI constant and make the controls 'harder' instead.
 
Chris Davies said:
I was getting a bit fed up of feeling like dribbling was useless, that the AI's defenders could just suck the ball off your foot at will whenever you got too close, and that every "loose ball" wasn't actually loose, but would always (and I do mean always) end up heading towards a player, like a pin to a magnet.

So I dropped down to Professional difficulty and... Oh my God. I mean, it's like the curtain to the game's inner workings is pulled back for you to see what goes on in Top Player and Superstar.

Your player's response times improve, the AI's defending isn't overpowered, when they tackle the ball it goes truly loose and ends up in space, deflections go anywhere (not just wide of goal, or to a defender)...

So, now I'm really angry. Because the way that the game manipulates difficulty - as @xPJRx posted earlier - is to impede your control. That's nothing new for PES (and it's why I've never been able to truly love the game in 10+ years, it's always been like this - I'd call it AI cheating, some call it scripting I think).

But to feel what the game is like when those restrictions aren't there, it is crazy. It's like playing PES 2021 or something, because your players respond to your input, and the results of certain actions (shots, deflections) are so clearly no longer being influenced by an invisible God putting them in the perfect place for the AI.

On Top Player/Superstar, I've never seen a goal like this:
(Also, check out the ridiculous expressions)


And I've never seen the AI mess up a shot like this, this would be a clinical shot or a ridiculous save on the higher levels:


So tonight I'm going to keep trying and hope it doesn't get too easy.
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Mate you'll find Pro extremely easy after a while, especially when your TS improves. I've even tried to stick with TP in ML because the AI is less predictable and your players don't freeze up all the time but alas, it's too easy and I score goals for fun.

I can't get past how bad the visuals are in this either. Just look at the videos you posted - if I didn't already know and someone told me that was a football game on a PS4 in late 2019 - I'd say you're taking the PES. I just don't know/understand how Konami HQ's Quality Control department think that these visuals, face animations and graphics in general are acceptable in a £40/$50 product in this day and age?

Baffling.
 
Gale Kast said:
Oh and another one to add to the shocking refs/fouls issue.

Online, matchday mode, ps4.. don't understand how this isn't a penalty!

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Happens to me ALL the time. I'm ready to sell the game on eBay or at CEX because of it. It's ruining the game for me - OFFLINE it happens a lot as it is but I didn't realise it was an issue in multiplayer as well?!

I'm assaulted in the penalty area so often and NEVER WIN A PEN. Why have they made the game like this, I just don't understand? What football fan/gamer in this universe says "Yeah, give me a game where I get fouled all the time but never get penalties or free kicks. I don't even like penalties or free kicks, I'd prefer a game without them."

No-one says it, no-one.
 
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Mikhail said:
Mate you'll find Pro extremely easy after a while, especially when your TS improves. I've even tried to stick with TP in ML because the AI is less predictable and your players don't freeze up all the time but alas, it's too easy and I score goals for fun.

I can't get past how bad the visuals are in this either. Just look at the videos you posted - if I didn't already know and someone told me that was a football game on a PS4 in late 2019 - I'd say you're taking the PES. I just don't know/understand how Konami HQ's Quality Control department think that these visuals, face animations and graphics in general are acceptable in a £40/$50 product in this day and age?

Baffling.
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I find the quality of the graphics to be very good. The pitch tones however at night (dont mind day and overcast generally looks great) is another thing entirely.
They know how to do it right. Just look at pes 18.

Is it graphical limitations that make pitches look so weird? At what point in the dev cycle do these things go wrong?
I always feel washed out or yellow pitches must be due to a lack of space for colours...generally great gameplay has come with rubbish graphics in one way or another, with both pes or fifa. Would be great to hear from people who understand this stuff...
 
Chris Davies said:
I was getting a bit fed up of feeling like dribbling was useless, that the AI's defenders could just suck the ball off your foot at will whenever you got too close, and that every "loose ball" wasn't actually loose, but would always (and I do mean always) end up heading towards a player, like a pin to a magnet.

So I dropped down to Professional difficulty and... Oh my God. I mean, it's like the curtain to the game's inner workings is pulled back for you to see what goes on in Top Player and Superstar.

Your player's response times improve, the AI's defending isn't overpowered, when they tackle the ball it goes truly loose and ends up in space, deflections go anywhere (not just wide of goal, or to a defender)...

So, now I'm really angry. Because the way that the game manipulates difficulty - as @xPJRx posted earlier - is to impede your control. That's nothing new for PES (and it's why I've never been able to truly love the game in 10+ years, it's always been like this - I'd call it AI cheating, some call it scripting I think).

But to feel what the game is like when those restrictions aren't there, it is crazy. It's like playing PES 2021 or something, because your players respond to your input, and the results of certain actions (shots, deflections) are so clearly no longer being influenced by an invisible God putting them in the perfect place for the AI.

On Top Player/Superstar, I've never seen a goal like this:
(Also, check out the ridiculous expressions)


And I've never seen the AI mess up a shot like this, this would be a clinical shot or a ridiculous save on the higher levels:


So tonight I'm going to keep trying and hope it doesn't get too easy.
Click to expand...


I specifically remember playing as liverpool at Barca on pes 2018 and thinking when in the hell did pes become so free and dynamic and silky smooth? This is crazy, it's so fair and responsive.
It was only after I went to change balls for the next match that I realised I'd accidentally dropped down to top player. The scales fell away...
Then I fully understood the feeling of helplessness on superstar that had occasionally blighted my pes experience on ps4 onwards (dont remember it being so big a deal on ps²) and that feeling of rubber banding...

I've generally avoided the posting too much as I play version 1.00 (and wasnt that fun manually doing kits for epl. Not even attempted transfers yet) and singing its praises over and over isnt much use to those who want an option file or to play online. Howevrr, the fact that this limiting of player control does NOT exist on superstar in the vanilla version tells us so much about the tricks konami feel they need to employ to keep their game competitive. Here's the thing, they dont need them.
In the vanilla version AI defenders still react to your feints too, you can shake them off, but with some players it takes longer.

If only konami had faith in their product. I'm still on top player and lose as often as I win. This reductive approach to game design is completely unnecessary.
 
What is going on? The other day the forum was going on about top player being better/more stats based so I switched up (and I thought it felt better - only played 3 or 4 games tho) and now we're back to prof is better?

i'll go back to prof, then.


#demo-bait-and-switch-gate
 
Ok so I just knocked the difficulty down to professional after reading Chris's post (I've not once played 2020 lower than TP) and oh god it's like a different game. My players reactions are better & I'm seeing animations from the demo and the cursor change is much more responsive. Everything is just more human like and dare I say it....it feels close to the demo on Top player.

The ball & my players feel loose again & free.

Could it be that I've been sitting here for over two weeks pissing around with different versions of the game when all I needed to do was drop it down a difficulty to get that game feel back?

I can understand why it's been getting on my nerves so much because it seems TP & above not only increases A.i difficulty but completely messes around with the way my own players behave. I'm now wondering if the demo had misleading difficulty settings & TP was actually professional?

My only problem now is it might be a tad too easy but that special game feels like it's back and I'm not being consistently cheated and shafted by the coding.
 
steff said:
Play what you enjoy instead of being told what's best.
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should be the way right except it took me about 3 years to realise myclub wasn't worth the time, another year for ML. so you'll forgive me if i'd rather seek opinions here before sinking more time into this game.

(just think of that whole month spent playing the demo , watching/analysing gamescom vids etc and all the comments made and then you get a game that plays differently at release.)


Goldstone said:
.....Could it be that I've been sitting here for over two weeks pissing around with different versions of the game when all I needed to do was drop it down a difficulty to get that game feel back?
.....
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right on queue (but i don't agree professional equates to demo play)



#pes-demo-bait-and-switch-gate
 
Goldstone said:
Could it be that I've been sitting here for over two weeks pissing around with different versions of the game when all I needed to do was drop it down a difficulty to get that game feel back?
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No.
While initial feeling might be that the game is back on track - it will not last.
Last matches I played on current version were all on Professional. Eventually it will all slowly start creeping back in.
Some people are more sensitive towards certain things than others and if you have seen a big difference between 1.0 and current version - the difference is still there on professional.
 
Alx1234 said:
should be the way right except it took me about 3 years to realise myclub wasn't worth the time, another year for ML. so you'll forgive me if i'd rather seek opinions here before sinking more time into this game.

(just think of that whole month spent playing the demo , watching/analysing gamescom vids etc and all the comments made and then you get a game that plays differently at release.)




right on queue (but i don't agree professional equates to demo play)



#pes-demo-bait-and-switch-gate
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No it's not exactly the same but I can breathe when I'm playing again and not feel like I'm being restricted by the fake rigidness masquerading as difficulty from Konami.
 
Goldstone said:
Ok so I just knocked the difficulty down to professional after reading Chris's post (I've not once played 2020 lower than TP) and oh god it's like a different game. My players reactions are better & I'm seeing animations from the demo and the cursor change is much more responsive. Everything is just more human like and dare I say it....it feels close to the demo on Top player.

The ball & my players feel loose again & free.

Could it be that I've been sitting here for over two weeks pissing around with different versions of the game when all I needed to do was drop it down a difficulty to get that game feel back?

I can understand why it's been getting on my nerves so much because it seems TP & above not only increases A.i difficulty but completely messes around with the way my own players behave. I'm now wondering if the demo had misleading difficulty settings & TP was actually professional?

My only problem now is it might be a tad too easy but that special game feels like it's back and I'm not being consistently cheated and shafted by the coding.
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I like to read that! :) and there will be more and more aaaand more... ;)
Same with @Chris Davies... and others. :)

We are getting there guys, as long as we respect each other’s opinions and keep on talking civilized (even about facts)! I’m not gonna comment on the “swing boat” situation (it’s all so human and/but I’ve been through this), but I’m watching here. :BYE:
Alx1234 said:
should be the way right except it took me about 3 years to realise myclub wasn't worth the time, another year for ML. so you'll forgive me if i'd rather seek opinions here before sinking more time into this game.

(just think of that whole month spent playing the demo , watching/analysing gamescom vids etc and all the comments made and then you get a game that plays differently at release.)




right on queue (but i don't agree professional equates to demo play)



#pes-demo-bait-and-switch-gate
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Yes, It played differently at release! On disc it played even better than the demo!! And it does till this very day! ;)
But I get you. 1.2 you are talking about.

I’m in for all the valid points made here and elsewhere that should change PES to the positive (again) when 1.3 hits!! Fingers crossed!!!!

Meanwhile... back to my Rangers! :BSCARF:
 
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fregen said:
You should pass those clips on to the dev's. But since they said they wouldn't touch the refs I don't know if it will matter much...
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Have done that via the Facebook dev page in the bug threads. If anyone uses Twitter and wants to pass them on to the relevant people please do :)
 
It speaks volumes that so many people are having to go back and forth on difficulty, version numbers etc to get enjoyment out of this game.

The simple issue is that the core fundamentals of what makes a good football game are flawed/broke yet again.

The honeymoon period has well and truly dissipated for me now and I’m left with a game with no fouls that can’t be enjoyed in a difficulty level above Professional because of blatant scripting/cheating/bad coding.

With classics like PES 1, 3 and 5 - did we get this? Games that didn’t award fouls, were blatantly scripted in the harder difficulties? Was it this bad? Genuine question as I can’t remember if the nostalgia of the those games clouds my opinion of them.
 
Chilleverest said:
Same here. I feel disgusted to pay full price sek599 and now im stuck with it. There are moments of brilliance at time (same story last iteration as well) but nothing to warranty that you will stick to it day in day out (or look forward to to play after long days work).
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Goldstone said:
Ok so I just knocked the difficulty down to professional after reading Chris's post (I've not once played 2020 lower than TP) and oh god it's like a different game. My players reactions are better & I'm seeing animations from the demo and the cursor change is much more responsive. Everything is just more human like and dare I say it....it feels close to the demo on Top player.

The ball & my players feel loose again & free.

Could it be that I've been sitting here for over two weeks pissing around with different versions of the game when all I needed to do was drop it down a difficulty to get that game feel back?

I can understand why it's been getting on my nerves so much because it seems TP & above not only increases A.i difficulty but completely messes around with the way my own players behave. I'm now wondering if the demo had misleading difficulty settings & TP was actually professional?

My only problem now is it might be a tad too easy but that special game feels like it's back and I'm not being consistently cheated and shafted by the coding.
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Nope. Been on Professional since the start its crap. Once the effect wears off it will go back to normal.
 
Antoine said:
Nope. Been on Professional since the start its crap. Once the effect wears off it will go back to normal.
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Yup.
You'll be better of investing all this time into editing all teams, instead of switching between the two.

And Im not trying to diss the current one - there is a lot of people, who love it as it is.
And thats great.
But like I said - every one of us is more sensitive towards certain elements of the gameplay.

A lot of people was saying that shots are not random enough in Pes. I dont see it.
Lot of guys were saying AI positioning is all over the shop in Pes. Again - I dont see it.

Which doesnt mean its not there.
I just dont notice these things and they dont bother me.
But if you played 1.0, because you didnt like the pace, or dribbling, or first touch - these things dont change if you switch difficulty.

Once everyone finds their sweet spot - stick to it and dont experiment, coz you will only end up annoyed.
 
Emroth said:
Yup.
You'll be better of investing all this time into editing all teams, instead of switching between the two.

And Im not trying to diss the current one - there is a lot of people, who love it as it is.
And thats great.
But like I said - every one of us is more sensitive towards certain elements of the gameplay.

A lot of people was saying that shots are not random enough in Pes. I dont see it.
Lot of guys were saying AI positioning is all over the shop in Pes. Again - I dont see it.

Which doesnt mean its not there.
I just dont notice these things and they dont bother me.
But if you played 1.0, because you didnt like the pace, or dribbling, or first touch - these things dont change if you switch difficulty.

Once everyone finds their sweet spot - stick to it and dont experiment, coz you will only end up annoyed.
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I feel like I've experimented too much with this game and never quite found the sweet spot that was the demo. It can send you crazy & there's definitely an element of something new & different wearing off quickly.
I just can't find a happy medium with this game yet & all this tinkering is only making things worse. I'm usually settled after a couple of weeks with a new PES but not this year. Perhaps I should leave it alone & play something else for a while until the patch and then I can go through it all again:LMAO:
 
Goldstone said:
Ok so I just knocked the difficulty down to professional after reading Chris's post (I've not once played 2020 lower than TP) and oh god it's like a different game. My players reactions are better & I'm seeing animations from the demo and the cursor change is much more responsive. Everything is just more human like and dare I say it....it feels close to the demo on Top player.

The ball & my players feel loose again & free.

Could it be that I've been sitting here for over two weeks pissing around with different versions of the game when all I needed to do was drop it down a difficulty to get that game feel back?

I can understand why it's been getting on my nerves so much because it seems TP & above not only increases A.i difficulty but completely messes around with the way my own players behave. I'm now wondering if the demo had misleading difficulty settings & TP was actually professional?

My only problem now is it might be a tad too easy but that special game feels like it's back and I'm not being consistently cheated and shafted by the coding.
Click to expand...

The problem is for me playing on professional it isn't really a challenge and when you score a goal it doesn't feel has rewarding however on top player it certainly is more difficult, for me anyway. So it's a shame there's not a middle line between the two difficulties. If everyone says that professional is more like the demo and more enjoyable that's what I will stick to.

On a side note do you regularly go to see the Brighton Hove Albion games? I work for the club (Brighton based)
 
ML and the stupid Team Spirit mechanics are likely the cause of a lot of the "scripting" on higher difficulties. I'm just playing random cup competitions with various teams (usually CL/EL as I don't have to manually swap all the teams like international tournaments) and although the AI is tough on Superstar and does superhuman/cheating things like instant reactions to dribbles and OP strength, it's challenging but not impossible on FUMA. I don't feel like they flick a switch and become impossible to stop at any point, and I see them hit some terrible shots.

Maybe those feeling they need to play on Professional should give TP/SS a try in Cup/League modes. I know you miss out on all the off-the-pitch stuff but switching teams regularly keeps things fresh, and you may find some players you like for a future ML.
 
dinono10 said:
The problem is for me playing on professional it isn't really a challenge and when you score a goal it doesn't feel has rewarding however on top player it certainly is more difficult, for me anyway. So it's a shame there's not a middle line between the two difficulties. If everyone says that professional is more like the demo and more enjoyable that's what I will stick to.

On a side note do you regularly go to see the Brighton Hove Albion games? I work for the club (Brighton based)
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It's definitely a tad too easy and I'd like a middle ground.

Yeah I'm a season ticket holder, went up to Newcastle on Saturday (still recovering!) and will be going to the cup game tomorrow night. Loving the new style of play & think we've been very unlucky not to have more points. Do you work for the club on a daily basis or match days?
 
An example of a dreadful AI shot on Superstar in EL

ezgif-5-fd3f2ef6ad2e.gif
 
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