eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[rojofa]

Ziyech, Insigne, Papu Gomez. All great to use in Pes 19. Now? Stiff

Yep, online there's no point in these players. You can only play hot potato one or two touch football because as soon as an opponent is in your postcode you've lost the ball either because of the clunky dribbling or overpowered defending.

Maybe Konami have been recreating the wrong sport lately with Japan hosting the Rugby World Cup. You have to laugh at some of the "tackles" that go unpunished.

 

[fernadez]

A certain Evo-Web user has helped me (understatement of the year) put a PC together, because this year's PES has pushed me into it. I want to play PES 2020 and make it as pretty and as licensed as possible.

I have no idea what I'm doing, but, if there's a football game out that I can really enjoy, I'm sure as hell going to take advantage of it as much as I can, because it doesn't happen often.

Spent some time yesterday working out how to use Stadium Server, put in Scoreboards, Adboards etc. It's definitely worth it and adds to the overall package.

 

[Chuny]

Have EA hijacked the konami account?

I think its fantastic how communicative they are. It seems to be more than just PR too.

I'm starting to feel some feelings of love returning for konami. It'll never be the same of course, I'll never forget those years of repeated lies and excuses, pretending they were freeing up PA1 whilst secretly shagging PA3 behind our backs.
But I think im ready to start cuddling again...

Join us! You're not alone

 

[Negatrev]

A lot. Since player individuality is watered down so much, everyone plays like that.

So your argument that there isn't player individuality is that HUMAN players are all playing the same way...

 

[fregen]

Yep, online there's no point in these players. You can only play hot potato one or two touch football because as soon as an opponent is in your postcode you've lost the ball either because of the clunky dribbling or overpowered defending.

Maybe Konami have been recreating the wrong sport lately with Japan hosting the Rugby World Cup. You have to laugh at some of the "tackles" that go unpunished.

Exactly, well put.

 

[fregen]

So your argument that there isn't player individuality is that HUMAN players are all playing the same way...

Nope. Since there is no individuality in players people decide to play in a certain way. Saw none of that in pes 19 online with people playing PA0. Much more varied.

I should have phrased it different. They are forced to play like that since players are so generic and defenders like homing missiles no matter what you do.

 

[Chuny]

All football games "force" you to go down a certain avenue at some point.
AI programming isn't endless. There are only so much they can do and a certain amount of variables and outcomes they can code. So it's not like ALL humans are playing the same way, but there are certain situations in which we all probably react more or less the same way and make the same choices. If you spot a good opening that will put your CF by himself 1 on 1 with the keeper, wouldn't you pass the ball to him?
Yeah. I would too.

 

[hitmanuk]

Nope. Since there is no individuality in players people decide to play in a certain way. Saw none of that in pes 19 online with people playing PA0. Much more varied.

I should have phrased it different. They are forced to play like that since players are so generic and defenders like homing missiles no matter what you do.

How is there no individuality in players, are you saying there's no difffernce between sterling and kane? Or messi and van dijk ? I see loads of individuality especially the top players

 

[Madmac79]

There are tons of offline people having the opposite experience on player individuality. Sorry for you online guys! For me it's the first good Pes in a lifetime in this in regard.

 

[fregen]

How is there no individuality in players, are you saying there's no difffernce between sterling and kane? Or messi and van dijk ? I see loads of individuality especially the top players

Online? I think it's far from what it was in the demo. Yeah, speedsters can be somewhat good but Messi is super easy to take the ball from.

 

[Negatrev]

Nope. Since there is no individuality in players people decide to play in a certain way. Saw none of that in pes 19 online with people playing PA0. Much more varied.

I should have phrased it different. They are forced to play like that since players are so generic and defenders like homing missiles no matter what you do.

As Chuny says below...

If you spot a good opening that will put your CF by himself 1 on 1 with the keeper, wouldn't you pass the ball to him?
Yeah. I would too.

...I have played some multiplayer (early on this year AND over the years). The most common goal I've scored almost every year has been a simple pass through the middle. This is because SOOO many people only play a high pressing game but forget to NOT press with CDM/CB too much and they leave obvious gaps for a simply goal. I mostly find it's the defender 'causing' certain situations to happen a lot, not the attacker.

It doesn't matter what sort of striker you play, you're always going to exploit an easy run on goal. This doesn't mean that individuality isn't there. Just that it doesn't matter for THIS situation.

 

[Emroth]

There are tons of offline people having the opposite experience on player individuality. Sorry for you online guys! For me it's the first good Pes in a lifetime in this in regard.

Thats coz X pressure is so OP and dribbling was toned down with the last patch. If you play online people will just bash into you or use their AI team mates to bash into you. With toned down dribbling its harder to escape this and see the difference between Messi and Mesho. All you can do is to try to turn around and get the ball away from you as fast as you can.

 

[fregen]

As Chuny says below...



...I have played some multiplayer (early on this year AND over the years). The most common goal I've scored almost every year has been a simple pass through the middle. This is because SOOO many people only play a high pressing game but forget to NOT press with CDM/CB too much and they leave obvious gaps for a simply goal. I mostly find it's the defender 'causing' certain situations to happen a lot, not the attacker.

It doesn't matter what sort of striker you play, you're always going to exploit an easy run on goal. This doesn't mean that individuality isn't there. Just that it doesn't matter for THIS situation.

Again, not in PA0. Individuality was good in 19 and great in the demo. Now it's gone. It might not be that there is less individuality but that OP pressuring and the lack of randomness make it obsolete.

 

[rojofa]

The issue isn't so much that there's no individuality between players, it's just that the differences barely matter in most situations because pressure spamming just bulldozes through anything you try to do against it. Doesn't matter if it's Messi jinking one way and the other or you try doing the same thing with your centre-back, the success rate is about the same even if Messi is more agile and takes more touches. The defender can just sprint in and overcome any close control/feints and most of the time even shielding just by homing in on the ball by holding one or two buttons. This wasn't the case in the demo...

The only individuality that seems to matter when attacking is aerial ability and extreme pace, at least on PA0.

 

[DexX]

I haven't been playing much because modding the game is taking up all my time.
But managed to squeeze in a few games in-between tests yesterday and score two goals that made me happy.

The first one made me happy because you couldn't score these in PES 2019. Or at least I couldn't.



And the second one made me happy because.... well, it's a beauty.

Awesome goals!!

 

[Negatrev]

The issue isn't so much that there's no individuality between players, it's just that the differences barely matter in most situations because pressure spamming just bulldozes through anything you try to do against it. Doesn't matter if it's Messi jinking one way and the other or you try doing the same thing with your centre-back, the success rate is about the same even if Messi is more agile and takes more touches. The defender can just sprint in and overcome any close control/feints and most of the time even shielding just by homing in on the ball by holding one or two buttons. This wasn't the case in the demo...

The only individuality that seems to matter when attacking is aerial ability and extreme pace, at least on PA0.

PA0 makes a big difference on passing accuracy still, depending on the player passing the ball. I don't see why PA0 would have any impact on the individuality. It alters where you AIM to put the ball, not where it actually ends up. That's still down to the players stats.

If players are constantly rushing you, play wider support, balls out to the wing and when you have nowhere to go, draw a foul. If people aren't letting go of PASS/SHOOT and constantly just rushing you, take advantage of their sloppiness. You'll eventually score from a free-kick/pen or more likely get an easy run through on goal when they over-commit a back-line player.

With people rushing constantly, the last thing you want to do is try and carry the ball through the middle of the park.

Oh and not to forget. They only have so many subs and tired players are hugely effected now. Knackered defenders leave loads of room to play!

 

[rojofa]

PA0 makes a big difference on passing accuracy still, depending on the player passing the ball. I don't see why PA0 would have any impact on the individuality. It alters where you AIM to put the ball, not where it actually ends up. That's still down to the players stats.

If players are constantly rushing you, play wider support, balls out to the wing and when you have nowhere to go, draw a foul. If people aren't letting go of PASS/SHOOT and constantly just rushing you, take advantage of their sloppiness. You'll eventually score from a free-kick/pen or more likely get an easy run through on goal when they over-commit a back-line player.

With people rushing constantly, the last thing you want to do is try and carry the ball through the middle of the park.

Oh and not to forget. They only have so many subs and tired players are hugely effected now. Knackered defenders leave loads of room to play!

I'm not interested in your advice, the problem isn't with knowing how to play the game, it's with what Konami have done to it since the demo...

 

[PESV]

(...) Feels like I could show any crazy example and you'd find a way to justify it, so I'm not sure this discussion is worth having.

Please, try me. Chances are you find me much more reasonable and open for convincing then you seem to be suggesting, and @Negatrev for that matter.

For example, yesterday i had a clear foul by the CPU not called:

Spoiler

And another clean tackle by CPU seen as a foul (no card).

Spoiler

If these more questionable decisions happen only very very occasionaly, i have no problem with them and thats where i am now. When i feel it happens every other match i would not hesitate to call the thing broken.

But wait, there's a catch. I took a second look at the first one and there is actually no contact:

Spoiler

So, right decision afterall. Its just that awkward stumble animation which is out of context that is the real 'bug' here, not the referee system.

Also, when you play the second vid on 0.5 speed you will notice how Dzeko's leg is touched first, denying him a chance to shield the ball from the incoming tackle. Thus, again, very much within reason to call it a foul.

I have absolutely no agenda to talk a banana straight but for me personally the collision and referee/collision system does a pretty decent job, not perfect, but far from broken.

You are making me think though, maybe i have actually become a bit too forgiving for things that could be improved. My natural instinct is to trust and learn the game mechanics and then work with them. As soon as i have a feel for what goes and what doesnt, i accept these rules because they do not obstruct me anymore and everything start to feel right for me, making it more difficult to be critical?

 

[elfie]

Played Pes basically all of my gaming life (I'm 50 so must have played them all).
Went away for a few years to FIFA, but have been back playing pes since 2017.

I skipped 19 because of the negative reactions.
Read this forum on a daily basis, basically i come here 4 / 5 times a day.

I'm in love with the demo, really like the loose feel of it, but the 5 min halves suck.
Usually i wait till the game is on sale, by that time there are some really good option files out as well.
But the demo has got me so hyped that i think i'm going to break this habit.
I play strictly offline, mostly just leagues and cups. No master leauge or any other stuff.

So after this long introduction my question :

How different is the full game compared to 18, so not 19, with regard to the offline play​

I'm going digital because in the end i want to add the option file.
I simply can't stand to see all those unlicensed kits.

I know the full game is different from the demo (and they are going to try and fix/change it with a patch end of October) but how does 18 compare to the full 2020 game?

Would love to hear a bit more about that.

Thanks.

 

[Chris Davies]

I don't see why PA0 would have any impact on the individuality. It alters where you AIM to put the ball, not where it actually ends up. That's still down to the players stats.

Has this ever been proven?

A lot of people say this, but I tried playing PA0 in the demo and full game, and in my opinion, it is fully manual. No attributes came into passing at all IMO. I also don't see why Konami would put in "fully manual" to satisfy the types of people who want fully manual passing, then make it different from holding the manual pass modifier. They don't care about manual guys, it's just thrown in. Why make it use special code?

All I'm saying is, I'd like to see some good proof, because every time I try it I'm 100% convinced it's fully manual. Guys I respect say things to me like "try PA0, it's easier than you think, you still get assistance but not much" - and I literally can't string two passes together. So they just can't see that it's become second nature to them, and therefore FEELS less manual.

 

[Negatrev]

I'm not interested in your advice, the problem isn't with knowing how to play the game, it's with what Konami have done to it since the demo...

If you didn't want to discuss the problems you're having, why bring it to the discussion thread?

Not liking how a games plays is not the same as it being entirely broken. Yes the game has issues (it does every year in some shape or form) but every person who uses hyperbole to declare the game unplayable and/or unfair here, what are you hoping for.

I assume that since you bring it to the discussion you're hoping others might have advice to help you enjoy the game? If not, what's the point in just coming here to moan that the game is broken? Perhaps moan at the developers instead?

The final game has less issues with it than the demo did. I understand many preferred the demo. Whether it's because the bugs in that bothered them less, or that they just didn't notice them, I don't know. But really, you should try and enjoy what you have now. Life's too short to just spend your time complaining!

 

[hitmanuk]

Has this ever been proven?

A lot of people say this, but I tried playing PA0 in the demo and full game, and in my opinion, it is fully manual. No attributes came into passing at all IMO. I also don't see why Konami would put in "fully manual" to satisfy the types of people who want fully manual passing, then make it different from holding the manual pass modifier. They don't care about manual guys, it's just thrown in. Why make it use special code?

All I'm saying is, I'd like to see some good proof, because every time I try it I'm 100% convinced it's fully manual. Guys I respect say things to me like "try PA0, it's easier than you think, you still get assistance but not much" - and I literally can't string two passes together. So they just can't see that it's become second nature to them, and therefore FEELS less manual.

if it was full manual what would be the point of having a seperate manual button

 

[Outsider_1624]

I FREAKING KNEW IT!!! Thank God!

 

[Negatrev]

Has this ever been proven?

A lot of people say this, but I tried playing PA0 in the demo and full game, and in my opinion, it is fully manual. No attributes came into passing at all IMO. I also don't see why Konami would put in "fully manual" to satisfy the types of people who want fully manual passing, then make it different from holding the manual pass modifier. They don't care about manual guys, it's just thrown in. Why make it use special code?

All I'm saying is, I'd like to see some good proof, because every time I try it I'm 100% convinced it's fully manual. Guys I respect say things to me like "try PA0, it's easier than you think, you still get assistance but not much" - and I literally can't string two passes together. So they just can't see that it's become second nature to them, and therefore FEELS less manual.

I don't know what you're hoping for in way of proof? However, I started my ML game with the default players. It is VERY noticeable on how accurate your passing is when you play a cross with that one left winger sahoune (SPL) compared to Canning. It's very noticeable when you make a short pass with Arcas or Vrany, rather than the angry one (can't remember his name, but he's good at dribbling and long shots, but crap short passing). Unless someone hacks the game to show the target circle of every pass, I'm not sure how it can be proven to you.

Finally, on PA0 the assistance is minimal. Whether good or awful players if you aren't fairly accurate yourself, you won't be able to string two passes together. It takes practice.

 

[rojofa]

Please, try me. Chances are you find me much more reasonable and open for convincing then you seem to be suggesting, and @Negatrev for that matter.

For example, yesterday i had a clear foul by the CPU not called:

Spoiler

And another clean tackle by CPU seen as a foul (no card).

Spoiler

If these more questionable decisions happen only very very occasionaly, i have no problem with them and thats where i am now. When i feel it happens every other match i would not hesitate to call the thing broken.

But wait, there's a catch. I took a second look at the first one and there is actually no contact:

Spoiler

So, right decision afterall. Its just that awkward stumble animation which is out of context that is the real 'bug' here, not the referee system.

Also, when you play the second vid on 0.5 speed you will notice how Dzeko's leg is touched first, denying him a chance to shield the ball from the incoming tackle. Thus, again, very much within reason to call it a foul.

I have absolutely no agenda to talk a banana straight but for me personally the collision and referee/collision system does a pretty decent job, not perfect, but far from broken.

You are making me think though, maybe i have actually become a bit too forgiving for things that could be improved. My natural instinct is to trust and learn the game mechanics and then work with them. As soon as i have a feel for what goes and what doesnt, i accept these rules because they do not obstruct me anymore and everything start to feel right for me, making it more difficult to be critical?

In the first one, there's a tiny touch on the ball, you can see the slight change in spin on the ball... In real time that looks dodgy but fair enough, no foul... Still hate that long stumbling animation though.

The second one is a foul for me, very hard to cleanly get the ball from that angle and you can see the contact before the ball if you slow it down.

How about this one?

This kind of thing is very common for me, maybe not looking that extreme but where the CPU/online opponent just sprints into you and both players end up stumbling/falling and nothing gets given...

 

[PESV]

Has this ever been proven?

A lot of people say this, but I tried playing PA0 in the demo and full game, and in my opinion, it is fully manual. No attributes came into passing at all IMO. I also don't see why Konami would put in "fully manual" to satisfy the types of people who want fully manual passing, then make it different from holding the manual pass modifier. They don't care about manual guys, it's just thrown in. Why make it use special code?

All I'm saying is, I'd like to see some good proof, because every time I try it I'm 100% convinced it's fully manual. Guys I respect say things to me like "try PA0, it's easier than you think, you still get assistance but not much" - and I literally can't string two passes together. So they just can't see that it's become second nature to them, and therefore FEELS less manual.

Given Konami's 180 on the PR, maybe you could invite a developer in the podcast to enlighten us on questions like these? Ah, i know, hopelessly optimistic.

However manual takes stats in account, it aint very obvious, thats for sure. I do think with a good passer you are able to apply a bit more swerve and the ball will bobble less so that receiver has less trouble trapping it. Also, your speed and aim will suffer less when under pressure. However, the only thing i know for sure is that i want it to work that way

 

[hitmanuk]

Played Pes basically all of my gaming life (I'm 50 so must have played them all).
Went away for a few years to FIFA, but have been back playing pes since 2017.

I skipped 19 because of the negative reactions.
Read this forum on a daily basis, basically i come here 4 / 5 times a day.

I'm in love with the demo, really like the loose feel of it, but the 5 min halves suck.
Usually i wait till the game is on sale, by that time there are some really good option files out as well.
But the demo has got me so hyped that i think i'm going to break this habit.
I play strictly offline, mostly just leagues and cups. No master leauge or any other stuff.

So after this long introduction my question :

How different is the full game compared to 18, so not 19, with regard to the offline play​

I'm going digital because in the end i want to add the option file.
I simply can't stand to see all those unlicensed kits.

I know the full game is different from the demo (and they are going to try and fix/change it with a patch end of October) but how does 18 compare to the full 2020 game?

Would love to hear a bit more about that.

Thanks.

I'm 42 and almost identical. Been playing pes 17 for last 2 years. I love the full game. Hated fifa since 17

 

[FShas]

Does anyone know what can be done to messi in terms of player styles and traits to make him more threatening?
Occasionally he behaves like messi but way too much passing backwards. Only rarely does he drive at the box etc.

It's strange as dybala and b Silva are far more threatening than messi in this game and often in the way of his real life playing style!

 

[Negatrev]

In the first one, there's a tiny touch on the ball, you can see the slight change in spin on the ball... In real time that looks dodgy but fair enough, no foul... Still hate that long stumbling animation though.

The second one is a foul for me, very hard to cleanly get the ball from that angle and you can see the contact before the ball if you slow it down.

How about this one?

This kind of thing is very common for me, maybe not looking that extreme but where the CPU/online opponent just sprints into you and both players end up stumbling/falling and nothing gets given...

Certainly dodgy that one. I expect the game didn't either register you as having control of the ball at that point and/or because the AI didn't press a tackle button (was just running back into position). I would raise that as a bug.

PS. It looks like you were about to lose possession anyway

 

[rojofa]

If you didn't want to discuss the problems you're having, why bring it to the discussion thread?

Not liking how a games plays is not the same as it being entirely broken. Yes the game has issues (it does every year in some shape or form) but every person who uses hyperbole to declare the game unplayable and/or unfair here, what are you hoping for.

I assume that since you bring it to the discussion you're hoping others might have advice to help you enjoy the game? If not, what's the point in just coming here to moan that the game is broken? Perhaps moan at the developers instead?

The final game has less issues with it than the demo did. I understand many preferred the demo. Whether it's because the bugs in that bothered them less, or that they just didn't notice them, I don't know. But really, you should try and enjoy what you have now. Life's too short to just spend your time complaining!

To discuss game mechanics and the state of the game, in the hopes that things will change in a forthcoming patch.

I get that my tone is not the most positive right now but I'm hugely frustrated with the state of the game after some of the great moments and matches I had in the demo. Having such a potentially great online football game snatched away is massively infuriating.