eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

It was mentioned though, re: fouls. They gave specific reasoning for the way it is now with fouls. At no point did I read "...and we're fine with that" or indeed interpret it as such.

My thoughts on the post are not me assuming this is how it is going to play out and more how it could, which I admit is the most optimistic of scenarios. It is one way things could go, all going well.

Not going to stress too much about it in the meantime though.
 
LaGarraCharrua! said:
At no point did I read "...and we're fine with that"
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Same way - at no point did I read - we're aware that fouls system still needs balancing... :LOL:
If I sent a message to some woman, asked can I come over and she didnt say "No", in fact - she didnt reply at all - I wouldnt assume that its a "Yes". ;) :LOL:

Anyhow - starting new ML tonight in spanish D2. But first I will edit youth players, so I dont have a long hair blonde polish fella called McDowell. Thanks, @slamsoze for this tutorial - its a very, very handy thing to know!
 
Negatrev said:
Just to be clear, you're talking about the game of football, not PES right.
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Yes, I hope so.

As if you mean the game of football, I'm sorry, but you're making a huge assumption here.

Just because footballers are required to be bigger, stronger and faster doesn't make them any less intelligent.
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I didn't quite say that. But clearly, speed and athleticism is incrementally weeding out intelligent but less-athletic player traits, as well as the artistic ones. Would Ronaldinho be able to flourish as well in today's football climate? I don't think so. He might still be as good, but he wouldn't be able to fully express himself like you know, Ronaldinho. In the same way, Neymar would've been a much more enjoyable player to watch 15 years ago.

It's just far less easy to be a Ronaldinho these days. The quicker and stronger the base is for opponents, the less time you have to show flair and therefore it's harder to use it effectively. The exceptionally skilled players still excel and you can see great flair.
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This is also my point. Yes they do still excel, but they are changed. When I look back and think of some legends.. The game just doesn't breed such delicate players anymore. The things they did, just don't happen anymore. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's become more.. Utilitarian.

It just requires MORE talent to do so and some of the players with great flair and not much else won't make it near enough to the top because they don't work hard enough to be at a physical peak. This isn't dumbing down, it's raising the bar on athleticism.
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This was always the case though. And it's not necessarily a good thing. Johan Cruyff was a genius player, and a smoker.

So it's not that it requires more talent to do anything, it's just that the game has changed.

And if it requires MORE talent to do so, to the point that someone as talented as Neymar and Aguero become inhibited and injured all the time, then you're talking superhuman talent.

It's not like defenders have become better than before either. On the contrary, there are few great defenders left. It's the time/space intervals for individual player expression that have shrinked - not because of quality, but quantity. The game lacks breathing space IMO.
 
Don't have 2020 yet (waiting to see what the patch does before buying) but it seems commentary has not changed.
I usually just switch it to another language.

Currently I use German, next up is Italian.
Keeps it fresh.
 
Beyond me how you guys can play this without AI dribbling. Star players oppose no threat, games no variety. Boring and underwhelming. Pass, pass, turn pass, 1-2, cross. Like 2019 ai.
 
Why do players turn like they are big rig trucks or accelerate like a car when they start running ? Is this supposed to be what “weight” is? It’s very annoying. Especially on defense when the animation feels like slow motion and the ball is lost for a cheap tap in goal. Also changing directions while dribbling is almost impossible, talk about rails wow Wtf
 
mahanddeem said:
I would like your opinions here. Excuse me if I will post this in PC as well as console topic
So Konami (per their PES development Facebook page) is declining the community feedback about the game, namely the demo feel and general game play. They said they listened to players and insist that demo was buggy and retail version is the better game. They mentioned that they will continue to improve the general experience but not in the direction of demo game play style.
Honestly, I am playing back and forth between the demo and the retail version. Surprisingly (though I said it many times before that demo feels better) now I can't see THAT much difference in player response, loose situations, ball physics and general game flow. I don't know if we were all preoccupied with the idea that Konami will release a game that is different than the demo.

A question: Can someone, now, concretely, objectively and realistically proof that demo is better than the final current game version? because I honestly can't provide valid and solid facts.
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I played the demo..and I mean i really played the demo(alot).

I’ve also played version 1.0 and version 1.01.01 almost religiously on the Xbox one X and PS4 pro since the 6th of September..

The differences between the demo and version 1.O are purely AI and fine tuning to the collision system.Phantom fouls and a lot of the inconsistencies(or frustrations from the demo are ironed out).That includes the back line issue and the static..or overly passive AI.It retains everything that made AI so good on the demo but adds a whole lot extra.The superstar players really shine without resorting to ping pong passing.Its simply arresting and rhythmic.Matches swing on a pendulum and no one game is ever the same.Heart and mouth football that you just don’t get post patch.The animations are also smoother as is the polish that isn’t there in the demo.

Post patch things change slightly..The ball is more guided,passing doesn’t require as much thought or pinpoint precision.The dribbling is slightly neutered.Turning is less sharp and snappy.There’s less miscontrol and looseness to both touch and movement.

Physicality also takes a hit and it’s one of the more noticeable things at first coming from the demo or version 1.0..I simply love pushing and pulling at players in the demo and version 1.0 by tapping the X button when I’m behind them or coming in from the sides..There cries and the way they play to the ref clattering to the floor..I also love the way forwards aren’t always easily dispossessed and how I can use shielding to lay a ball off to another forward for a strike or just fish in or outside the box for a free kick or penalty..I’ve already had the opposition down to ten 9 men and had six penalties awarded in my favour..

Interestingly the AI is also very different from the demo and version 1.0..It’s more prone to ping pong passing.Rarely cuts in or dribbles with the ball..It plays quicker and a little more directly and rarely crosses.Its more of a grind to play against and you don’t have as many moments from deflections,bad touch and passing error..It just feels much less human and patient.Ive also noticed many moments of players freezing and not reacting.Something has changed in this regard for the worse post patch(imo it’s the cursor).

Given the choice of the demo,version 1.0 or version 1.01.01..I would take version 1.0..

It’s the demo without the rough edges..and a masterpiece!..I’d love the option file but the changes don’t only alter the feel of the game but also the balance.Post patch the game feels so much more scripted and predefined..The looseness to ball physics and player control pre patch just can’t be rivalled ..nor can the physicality..It’s what made pes2020 imo and what they spent a year building only to patch out...

You couldn’t write it!..and why I’m happy we can still buy physical copies of games.. I would of given up on pes2020 already post patch..For me it’s half the game now..or the demo/versions 1.0 with its balls cut off..
 
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Coach pep said:
Yes, I hope so.



I didn't quite say that. But clearly, speed and athleticism is incrementally weeding out intelligent but less-athletic player traits, as well as the artistic ones. Would Ronaldinho be able to flourish as well in today's football climate? I don't think so. He might still be as good, but he wouldn't be able to fully express himself like you know, Ronaldinho. In the same way, Neymar would've been a much more enjoyable player to watch 15 years ago.



This is also my point. Yes they do still excel, but they are changed. When I look back and think of some legends.. The game just doesn't breed such delicate players anymore. The things they did, just don't happen anymore. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's become more.. Utilitarian.



This was always the case though. And it's not necessarily a good thing. Johan Cruyff was a genius player, and a smoker.

So it's not that it requires more talent to do anything, it's just that the game has changed.

And if it requires MORE talent to do so, to the point that someone as talented as Neymar and Aguero become inhibited and injured all the time, then you're talking superhuman talent.

It's not like defenders have become better than before either. On the contrary, there are few great defenders left. It's the time/space intervals for individual player expression that have shrinked - not because of quality, but quantity. The game lacks breathing space IMO.
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Really enjoyed your post. I bore my friends regularly with my lamentations on the subject.

If you watch sky sports goals from even 10 years ago, you'll see attacking patterns and types of goals you no longer see. Its depressing.
If you see players try and twist and turn in the way they did in 2000 even, they just slip. Often players dont try and play as they use to, their simply isnt the time or they're moving too quickly to do so safely.

One great example because he's played across two eras (individual expression vs the post pep and klopp collective era) and continents (south America and then western europe) is aguero. The way he played in Argentina he simply couldn't play that way now. He'd rupture a knee.

There is a brilliant article, the best piece of football journalism I've read, in the telegraph about how much football.changed between the Keane/vieira era and now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/so...s-philosophies-of-the-past-1.3874358?mode=amp


I think it's relevant to pes because although its admirable konami are trying to replicate football as it is now, part of me wishes they'd keep a flavour of football as it was in the pes 3 era, zidane, figo, Raul, bergkamp, boban, rui Costa etv, the list of slower, less explosive technicians who made you fall in love with football.

If you really asked yourself, how often do you see something on football pitch that leaves you completely jaw-dopped these days, not just looks good but completely out of the ordinary, I wasnt expecting that, like ronaldinho's toe poke vs chelsea, Davor sukers chip in euro 96 or every goal georghe haji scored in USA 94, and many others up till about 2005, I cant think of many.
I think this has worked it's way into football computer game design too.

And a final note on ronaldinho. He would thrive in any era, with any level of physicality. Partly because he was physically supreme for those three years at his peak, partly because hes the greatest expression of footballing purity I think the worlds ever witnessed (and I wont hear a word said to the contrary, thank you very much). And yes, he needs to apologise to the world for getting fat and robbing us of three more years of exhilarating football that made you shake your head at his brilliance and dance inside.
 
Chuny said:
AND... on top of that we'll finally have less space between defense and midfield which will undoubtedly result in more fight for possession and having to build up the play. I think this will be great.
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Will be interesting to see how they choose to fix the defence. Probably just make it more compact, rather than fix the formation/team shape positioning.
eg. If I want to defend the middle by using a compact diamond formation, it's impossible in Pes. The game just makes it a flat 4.
Defensive shape in fluid formation is completely ignored.

No matter what midfield setup you go with, when it's time to defend your DMF's & AMF's transition to CMF's. Therefore nobody is truly protecting the back 4. Drives me nuts when my DMF just moves up and leaves a huge gap.

I can't see them changing this. It's been in the code since the move to Fox Engine, and they never looked like changing it.

Chuny said:
Fouls were great in the demo but I haven't really complained much about it in the final game.
Haven't started a ML yet. But in exhibition mode I've had fouls in almost every match I've played.
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When playing online, defending mirrors a NFL all out crazy blitz for 90mins due to lack of fouls. I played a Matchday game today were the typical hot potato passing just to survive was in full effect. At one point there were 6 players lying on their backs from high speed collisions - 2 defenders & 4 of my poor guys. Just in time for the Rugby World Cup I suppose.
Their new close control & trick system is now the best way to give the ball to your opponent.
I could use this, with manual passing on the demo and compete. No chance now.

Best way to fix this nonsense would be to adjust the stamina system. Risk vs reward.
You want to sprint like a maniac continuously from the 1st whistle, cool. By half time your players should be out on their feet.

They say they want 'realistic football', but the defending online is a million miles from it atm.
Online is homicidal lunatics on defence, the more direct the better when on attack. Shame
 
LaGarraCharrua! said:
Hmmm, wee bit fake news-y in some responses to the development feedback post.

Didn't read anywhere that they said the fouls were fine and won't be changing them. Did read the reasons the way that they are currently following on from the demo.

Don't care if it has taken 3 minutes or 3 years to state they want to do some line and positioning work. Do care that they are going to make that change.

Didn't read anything about them not adding AI dribbling. Reckon that is because they already do.

"Hello, PES fans.


You have spoken loud and clear about the PES 2020 gameplay, and we have listened.
There were a lot of interesting points that were raised by you, so we wanted to take in everything we could before giving you feedback.
We apologise that it took us some time, but we’re finally ready to give you some feedback on this topic.
This is probably the longest post since we started this page, so get ready for some reading.


Let’s start with what actually changed between the Demo version and the final product.
Basically, we were focused on fixing the things that were deemed as bugs by the gameplay team.
One example of a bug that got fixed is how the fouls were being judged.
We noticed some fouls that were being judged in the Demo would not be considered as fouls in real life.
Since we always strive to make PES as close to real life football as possible, we did our best to make the judge better at defining which plays should be considered as fouls and which one were not.

As with the example above, many bugs were fixed in between the Demo version and the final product.
Thus, it would not be viable to revert the gameplay back to the Demo version, because that would mean that all the bugs that were originally fixed would arise again.
We’re sorry if this sounds disheartening to some of you, but we wanted to make this clear to everyone.


As the PES dev team, our main focus is to constantly search for the optimum play experience and game balance.
Through this page we were able to hear the fans’ voices, and your input was invaluable for us to understand what each one thinks is “real football”.
Aside from this page, we take into account many other sources, including factual data from everyone playing PES (ex. number of matches, goals scored, fouls judged, types of dribbles executed, etc.).
All this information is being compiled and analysed by our team to ensure that we can find the best gameplay possible.


Having said all that, we will be bringing some gameplay changes by the end of October:

1. Better player reaction to loose balls
We will be improving how players react to loose balls, ensuring that they will do their best to try and gain possession.
This will ensure an exciting gameplay for 1 vs 1 duels in the sidelines or the battle for the ball in the penalty box.

2. Better positioning of the defense line and midfield line
Some people pointed out that there was a gap between the defense line and the midfield line, which allowed killer passes to reach the foward attackers with ease.
We noticed that this resulted in a fast-paced game, since it was possible for the ball to reach the front lines with only a few passes.
With the fix, it will become harder for the ball to reach the attackers, so constructing the play will be more important during matches.
As a result, the pace of the game will come closer to reality.


This is just the beginning of our long journey to make PES the best football game ever.
We would like to take this opportunity to thank every single one of you who took your time to give us feedback on the gameplay.
Sometimes we may not be able to please everyone, but be assured that we always try our best to provide all of you with an awesome experience.
Please continue giving us your feedback on the gameplay (and other aspects too).


As you see, we may take some time to check them all, but we will eventually get around to it."

They have spoken of two fixes that could potentially have positive trickle-down.

Regards the loose ball reactions, that could, for example, result in more tussles and possibly result in more fouls as a result, or force them to make changes to the system to implement the fix well. Things like shielding might also be a tad more forgiving to the user.

The line positioning in itself could also not only result in a tighter, more demanding, further realistic flow but could very well increase the amount of physical battles for the ball, thus perhaps fouls. It seems a fair and logical prediction to make. Also, again, if the game is going to be tighter positionally they might have to make some elements to dribbling and alike more forgiving.

Game has been out eight days and they have followed up on feedback; offered an explanation and also stated what they intend to do with the game moving forward. Call me glass half full (easy for me as enjoying the game immensely) but I'm inclined to give credit where due here.

But I certainly didn't read that they said the fouls were fine or anything.
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Hi konami,

Thanks for your long post. If you really cared for us fans there were 2 options :

1. Your demo should have been upgraded to 1.0.1 before the release date so that fans would know exactly what game the demo was representing OR
2. You release the game at 1.0

You did neither.

[Thanks for fixing my PES addiction tho!]
 
Mikhail said:
I've just mentioned this in the ML Adventures thread but the pitches this year are so inconsistent. Old Trafford for example looks fine, you can see where the grass cuts up and there's a deep green, textured pitch.

Then the San Siro looks bright yellow, washed out and like it was designed in MS Paint. It irks me so much that it's put me off doing a lengthy Milan Master League save, which I've had my heart set on.

I'm not feeling the graphics this year at all but I've read some people say it's the best looking football game ever. I disagree on that one.

Another gripe (sorry everyone). British Police at Italian/Spanish/French stadia and then Italian police with guns at British stadia. WHY IS THIS STILL A THING KONAMI?! All of these tiny annoyances grow into one huge bubble of immersion killer (cool name for a band?) for me.

We're in 2019 and I'm STILL moaning about the same ol stuff. Konami, ladies & gents...
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The last bit annoys the life out of me, playing an English championship ML in 2018 and half the stadiums are foreign and if you change them to English ones you have a choice of 3 or something, how hard can it be to try and make it feel authentic.
 
Alx1234 said:
Hi konami,

Thanks for your long post. If you really cared for us fans there were 2 options :

1. Your demo should have been upgraded to 1.0.1 before the release date so that fans would know exactly what game the demo was representing OR
2. You release the game at 1.0

You did neither.

[Thanks for fixing my PES addiction tho!]
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I find this hard to stomach..I don’t feel in anyway Version 1.0 has bugs or anything technically wrong with it..

The demo yes..

They used to know when they had a good thing..All there going to do is over egg this..

Should of just keeped it at version 1.0..released dlc and data packs..

Over to a new engine and build on all the good physics and miscontrol/error/unpredictability from the demo/version 1.0 and take it into pes2021...
 
First ill start off with a positive that I changed formation in ML to a 4-1-3-2 and it has opened up the games more i was using a 4-2-2-2 with wing backs on the instructions i was getting results but sometimes it would be near impossible to unlock the AI defense so I had added some width and opened up the middle the AI seems to be more interested in attacking the games have been much more exciting well except..

playing pisa away and their ponytailed striker was 2004 Prso in disguise he was like a tank meanwhile the CPU decided I would need a miracle to score i had 9 shots 2 on target and hit the post 3 times and the bar once and at the other end 70 something rated Prso lookalike started throwing cbs around like ragdolls and ripping in top corner shots from 20 yards and I lost 3-0 to 4 shots

good old superstar level master league
 
rockstrongo said:
Cool,haven't seen it before though
My first GK too
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I'm about 24 games into my ML with Man United and I've had 5-6 injuries and two penalties..last penalty came vs Chelsea, yesterday. I've seen plenty of "player fatigue" cutscenes. Btw Did a mistake today and PSG snatched pogba by paying release clause, at least I got plenty of money, bought Bruno Fernandes, Daniel alves as a backup on RB and Barrios as DM..:)
 
This is probably something I should know by now, but...

Is Konami likely updating squads again soon? And if so, should I wait until then to install an OF?

I guess the alternative is to not include squad player/squad updates, which I have always done after installing an OF, but I never knew if it was necessary.
 
Cro_Cop said:
I'm about 24 games into my ML with Man United and I've had 5-6 injuries and two penalties..last penalty came vs Chelsea, yesterday. I've seen plenty of "player fatigue" cutscenes. Btw Did a mistake today and PSG snatched pogba by paying release clause, at least I got plenty of money, bought Bruno Fernandes, Daniel alves as a backup on RB and Barrios as DM..:)
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Pretty sweet deal there:)
I haven't had any attempts at my players yet,at least not triggering any release clauses (thank god)

Think I've had injuries (short ones) after ever 2-3 games.
On my first ML with Torino I had 2 long term inj (3+1 months)
I really like the fatigue in this game,you have to conserve energy early on,90+ of my goals are 70th minute and fw.
I usually sub my players late,come in with two fresh wingers Vs tired defenders
 
Emroth said:
I asked the same thing..
Altho I dont think he uses Advanced Through balls. He would have time to bring the bins to recycling centre himself.. :LOL:
Ps. I switched to basic as well.
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LOL - takes a while and then ends up with the same curling ball physics. I prefer basic but use the manual modifier button when I want to play a ball into space or put in a long ball through the air.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
Beyond me how you guys can play this without AI dribbling. Star players oppose no threat, games no variety. Boring and underwhelming. Pass, pass, turn pass, 1-2, cross. Like 2019 ai.
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Beyond me how you cannot play this with all the AI dribbling evident. Star players oppose much threat, games much variety. Exciting and overwhelming. Pass, pass, long ball, dribble, pass back, dribble dribble, special move, 1-2, cross etc. Like no AI we have ever seen. Thankyou!!!
 
cobra1616 said:
i disag

i disagree ai has variety of ways of scoring in demo and full game. see this video for examples

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But thats the demo. Demo had ai running and dribbling.
aussiepesfan said:
Beyond me how you cannot play this with all the AI dribbling evident. Star players oppose much threat, games much variety. Exciting and overwhelming. Pass, pass, long ball, dribble, pass back, dribble dribble, special move, 1-2, cross etc. Like no AI we have ever seen. Thankyou!!!
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Can you show me example? All i see is Ronaldo turning and passing back as soon as he faces my defender, or gets dispossessed quickly if he tries to hold onto the ball, or goes to the sideline and crosses after a 1-2 pattern. The exact same as 2019 and unlike v1.00/demo where hed run cut in and shoot outside the box even.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
But thats the demo. Demo had ai running and dribbling.


Can you show me example? All i see is Ronaldo turning and passing back as soon as he faces my defender, or gets dispossessed quickly if he tries to hold onto the ball, or goes to the sideline and crosses after a 1-2 pattern. The exact same as 2019 and unlike v1.00/demo where hed run cut in and shoot outside the box even.
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I’ve definitely seen Ronaldo cut inside quite a few times with the latest patch. He destroyed me in one game by cutting in, getting beyond a defender and scoring a late winner from outside the box. Not sure if this helps the discussion, you can only go by your own experience I guess. I would say however, I have felt there seem to be less ai dribbling compared to the demo, but I haven’t played enough to say for sure.
 
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Anth James said:
I’ve definitely seen Ronaldo cut inside quite a few times with the latest patch. He destroyed me in one game by cutting in, getting beyond a defender and scoring a late winner from outside the box. Not sure if this helps the discussion, you can only go by your own experience I guess. I would say however, I have felt there seem to be less ai dribbling compared to the demo, but I haven’t played enough to say for sure.
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+ @aussiepesfan
i mean just look at the gameplays i have recorded. day and night. v1.01 looks like some charity game where the old boys cant run with the ball anyomre. i dont see at all the demo/v1.0 dribbling by the ai anywhere with the last update

 
gabe.paul.logan said:
+ @aussiepesfan
i mean just look at the gameplays i have recorded. day and night. v1.01 looks like some charity game where the old boys cant run with the ball anyomre. i dont see at all the demo/v1.0 dribbling by the ai anywhere with the last update

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I agree demo gameplay was great. Less rails too. Like I said, I think there’s less AI dribbling in full game, but I have seen it.
 
Emroth said:
For some reason im finding Advanced quite awkward this year.
All because its more complex and precise (which should be a good thing)
I'll try to explain what I mean.

I went to training ground for 20 mins just to test aiming on Manual and Advanced Shooting with all the guides on. Just to see where the shots go on the stadium cam im playing.

What I noticed on Advanced, is that with an angle on Stadium Cam, I need to move stick a bit closer to the middle (which few mentioned before).
I also noticed that our shots are more flexible this year and (on Advanced) you can still adjust the aim while performing animation to shoot.

Edit: Everything below refers to aiming at the RIGHT goal and tryin to perform Low Shot to the bottom left corner.

So basically, if you start from holding ↖️ (which in most cases miss the post), you have to move it slightly towards ⬅️, which can be done during animation. Sounds good in theory.

Now, problem is - they cut animations short between patch and earlier versions and together with pressure from defenders - you have a very small window to go from running at the ball ➡️ into holding stick almost the other way ⬅️. You basically end up making semi-circle with the stick.

So... (im slightly confused myself and I hope that you are following my craziness)
Because the window is so small, Im trying to take a shortcut when Im about to get the ball and have a starting point here: ↖️

The result is - im having a lot of shots same way as AI - my player is turned away from the goal, coz I had ↖️ pressed slightly too early, player turns around, losing momentum, losing speed, losing power.

Never had any issues with Advanced Shooting before and I believe cutting animations so short, to make it more zippy, disturbed the balance and possibilities of this reworked, more complex Advanced Shooting.

Long story short - I prefer Manual shooting this year, which feels more natural and based on your instinct.
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giphy.gif


Yea. I'm going to stick to manual then :II

slamsoze said:
Interesting finding for the lovers of" @Lami" sliders, Antonyc1977 from pesgaming posted that experimenting with the stat "TIGHT POSSESSION" affects the body checks/charges. Still under research at the moment.
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Which sliders?
 
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