eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Negatrev]

It might be a reason for @Eltoro1234 to stop playing PES 2020 though? I've got to say mate, I find your posts very condescending and you've got an answer for every one of PES 2020's flaws as if it's the perfect football game.

I've got news for you - it's not.

I apologise 'It certainly SHOULDN'T be a reason to abandon the better game. Notice how the bit immediately before that I suggested a potential solution to the problem.

No-one has said it's a perfect game. In every post I've only tried to help people enjoy the game more. Not tell them there is nothing wrong (even in my conversation with you).

 

[Eltoro1234]

Post this on Konami feedback thread in facebook and tag Adam on twitter, I think this is simple to solve.

Thanks will do

 

[Emroth]

I was on advanced then switched to manual. Should I go back to advanced? Is it better?

For some reason im finding Advanced quite awkward this year.
All because its more complex and precise (which should be a good thing)
I'll try to explain what I mean.

I went to training ground for 20 mins just to test aiming on Manual and Advanced Shooting with all the guides on. Just to see where the shots go on the stadium cam im playing.

What I noticed on Advanced, is that with an angle on Stadium Cam, I need to move stick a bit closer to the middle (which few mentioned before).
I also noticed that our shots are more flexible this year and (on Advanced) you can still adjust the aim while performing animation to shoot.

Edit: Everything below refers to aiming at the RIGHT goal and tryin to perform Low Shot to the bottom left corner.

So basically, if you start from holding ↖️ (which in most cases miss the post), you have to move it slightly towards ⬅️, which can be done during animation. Sounds good in theory.

Now, problem is - they cut animations short between patch and earlier versions and together with pressure from defenders - you have a very small window to go from running at the ball ➡️ into holding stick almost the other way ⬅️. You basically end up making semi-circle with the stick.

So... (im slightly confused myself and I hope that you are following my craziness)
Because the window is so small, Im trying to take a shortcut when Im about to get the ball and have a starting point here: ↖️

The result is - im having a lot of shots same way as AI - my player is turned away from the goal, coz I had ↖️ pressed slightly too early, player turns around, losing momentum, losing speed, losing power.

Never had any issues with Advanced Shooting before and I believe cutting animations so short, to make it more zippy, disturbed the balance and possibilities of this reworked, more complex Advanced Shooting.

Long story short - I prefer Manual shooting this year, which feels more natural and based on your instinct.

 

[Eltoro1234]

I apologise 'It certainly SHOULDN'T be a reason to abandon the better game. Notice how the bit immediately before that I suggested a potential solution to the problem.

No-one has said it's a perfect game. In every post I've only tried to help people enjoy the game more. Not tell them there is nothing wrong (even in my conversation with you).

Believe me I don’t want to abandon the game

 

[Negatrev]

Believe me I don’t want to abandon the game

I didn't think you did
Fingers crossed you can find a way to have the players altered to the correct contracts.

 

[Negatrev]

I disagree here as the AI seems to come through the back a helluva lot and no foul is blown, i do the same and its a foul.
Its way off and needs looked at imo.

But again, you say that but...

1. How much have you played the game?
2. What difficulty levels and in what game modes are you playing?
3. What players are being knocked off the ball?
4. What players are knocking you off the ball?
5. Are you holding down dash when you are knocked over?
   
6. Are you using R2 to position the ball when receiving it?
7. Have you watched back the replay to show where and what contact was made in the fouls/non-fouls to compare them?
   
8. What is the foul count for you and your opposition in the final match stats?

I'm by no means an expert and have a very specific experience of the game (full manual passing, Professional difficulty, Master League with default players coming up on 2 seasons and a few dozen MyClub matches against humans). However, I rarely foul now. I get fouled quite a lot and often the foul doesn't even knock me over. I can even knock over the CPU without giving a foul a reasonable amount, especially when contesting a chased loose ball.

What do you think is 'way off'? How do you suggest it needs correcting?

 

[Peter Withe]

I apologise 'It certainly SHOULDN'T be a reason to abandon the better game. Notice how the bit immediately before that I suggested a potential solution to the problem.

No-one has said it's a perfect game. In every post I've only tried to help people enjoy the game more. Not tell them there is nothing wrong (even in my conversation with you).

You don't need to apologise mate, I just found your tone a little condescending. Sometimes it's difficult to gauge on a forum though.

No hard feelings.

 

[fefepes]

Imagine Maradona on modern pitches and a modern ball...

dont have to imagine, look at messi

 

[Peter Withe]

I’m sorry you feel I’m being condescending, but when people given10/10s blindly it’s hard not to be, a bit childish of me I realise Cant cope with all the faults and desperate not to return to the money grabbing Fifa (EA sports)

I didn't find you condescending - the other guy!

 

[Negatrev]

For some reason im finding Advanced quite awkward this year.
All because its more complex and precise (which should be a good thing)
I'll try to explain what I mean.
...
The result is - im having a lot of shots same way as AI - my player is turned away from the goal, coz I had ↖️ pressed slightly too early, player turns around, losing momentum, losing speed, losing power.

Probably due to age, but I moved away from advanced shooting a couple of years ago because of this exact thing. It required to rapid a movement (probably wearing out my controllers!) to hit low shots, which are the most common shots for me. I find, that even with basic shooting, you still have quite a lot of control of where you place the shot. I'm saving switching to manual shooting for when I find the game too easy as I prefer to advance the difficulty like this than to just up the game level.

 

[xicpanad]

7 matches in, and only one draw. TS is 50 by now, as I had to make some changes. I´m being totally destroyed at this, because I don´t have an attack at all. Can´t create chances on most matches. Still not mad about it, I know my team is currently one of the lowest/average quality on the league.

Gave a penalty away today. I got upset about it because it didn´t look like a foul at first, but at the same time I know it was a bit of a harsh duel. I´m used to some fouls being called and other´s not so much, I´m from Portugal after all, and our championship is probably one of the most controversial leagues out there.

Game has keeping me hooked, even loosing all my matches. I do see some things appointed here on the forums, but can´t really put them on the list to make me dislike this game. I just accept them, because this is still looking the best PES we had in years. If they can improve the foul system KUDOS. If not, I just hope they won´t screw anything else. If they keep it this way, I´m a happy man.

 

[Emroth]

Probably due to age, but I moved away from advanced shooting a couple of years ago because of this exact thing. It required to rapid a movement (probably wearing out my controllers!) to hit low shots, which are the most common shots for me. I find, that even with basic shooting, you still have quite a lot of control of where you place the shot. I'm saving switching to manual shooting for when I find the game too easy as I prefer to advance the difficulty like this than to just up the game level.

Thing that puts me off basic is the way you sometimes get very unnatural looking goals.
I know that people might say - "shut up! On manual defender can have a perfect rocket!"

But last time I switched to basic, I scored two goals where my player, in order to shoot, basically had a sliding tackle to reach the ball and hit it with full power.
Really dont like this animation and that type of goals.
It looks forced. Id rather if he didnt reach that ball at all, just swung in the air and fell on his arse.

 

[Negatrev]

Thing that puts me off basic is the way you sometimes get very unnatural looking goals.
I know that people might say - "shut up! On manual defender can have a perfect rocket!"

But last time I switched to basic, I scored two goals where my player, in order to shoot, basically had a sliding tackle to reach the ball and hit it with full power.
Really dont like this animation and that type of goals.
It looks forced. Id rather if he didnt reach that ball at all, just swung in the air and fell on his arse.

My players are likely not good enough yet to be able to do this

 

[Eltoro1234]

I didn't find you condescending - the other guy!

 

[PRO_TOO]

Not to mention the pass meter (at least on manual) will fill up faster now to counterbalance the more difficult dribbling. Its only half a second or so but its enough to make passes feel less physical and more shallow and cheaper.

Let me elaborate just a bit an unnecessary amount, because i believe what they did to the passing is exemplary for the changes between 1.0 to 1.2. Where the former is more about rythm, instinct and feeling and the latter represents better the strategy, challenge and ratio. Both are parts of football and both versions offer something thats very good. But man, if they can hit that sweet spot somewhere in between.

So, in my eyes, what the demo showed us, was that passing should mostly require not just a tap, but an actual and thick button press. Just like a real pass requires effort, time and concentration. A nuanced and subtle power meter can go a long way in translating that physicallity and suspense. In the demo every pass felt tangible somehow and releasing the pass became the climax of you finding that bit of space to perform it.

Not saying it is an anti-climax post-patch, far from it, but its just not the same. I do not feel i need that tiny bit of extra space every time to perform a more difficult / longer pass. I do not feel that me pressing the button actually represents the time it takes for my player to swing his leg, look up, look down and hit it with effort and intention.
What i do feel and see is that, when i am done with my press, there's often a very tiny delay and the resulting kick seems too fast in relation to my press. Its like watching a movie where the audio is just a few miliseconds faster then the video.

Surely Konami knows the faster the meter fills, the less weighty and tangiable the act becomes. They study that connection between input and output on a daily basis. First touch passes require just a tap because you will need to substract part of the power the ball already from your normal timing. And i also believe that when you are under pressure and being held down, a pass requires slightly more power. These contextual requirements are great and add to the feeling that you are dealing with real physics. But if that meter is too quick, all that detail wont be pronounced enough to get me involved.

Say for example a 3m pass in the game requires a 3 millisecond press, while a 6 meter pass a 4ms press. Now, you would be able to perform one or the other with some practise, but still a 0.3 or a 0.4 would press would feel about the same thus you have to actively think about it. And what about a 4 or 5 meter pass in above example? Our brain wont even be able to differentiate between 0.325 and 0.375 miliseconds.
Only when the meter fills up slowly enough, you will be able to seperate a 4 meter pass from a 5 meter one simply by muscle memory. With say 10 different passing gradients in your muscle memory arsenal you feel much more comfortable on the ball then only 6 options that make you feel slightly nervous of overhitting. Thus, a too frantic power meter impacts the whole experience on multiple levels.

In summary i just feel the adjusted mechanics are aimed to stimulate the brain more then the instincts. It seems i now have to rely more on predictions of what the game will do next in order to decide my next step, instead off relying on my muscle memory and football instincts. All in all this makes me feel less in control and ultimately slightly less involved. Thankfully, there is long grass which makes the pass meter behave in a more natural manner.

Sorry for the long one, its sometimes so damn hard to explain something rather subtle in a second language.

Thank you so much for putting in words what I am thinking. And so much better to understand for all users here (much better than I could ever do it)!
I totally agree!!
Thanks again!!

 

[Emroth]

My players are likely not good enough yet to be able to do this

Thats exactly my problem.. neither are mine..
I get that Zlatan has shots like this in real life, but not Real Mallorca striker..
Maybe it was just coincident, or I was just very "lucky", but two goals in two matches was enough to switch back to manual and get comfortable at the bottom of the table..

 

[Goldstone]

Despite my many grievances with the game (especially on 1.2) I must say, this is the first PES in years that I can really feel the stats playing a major part in how my players perform.

You really can feel the difference between poor, average, good & exceptional players and it's not just about pace & physicality. I had a couple of players in my ML who played on the wing & their crossing was absolutely abysmal & would often drift out of play with no whip or precision, really lovely to see. Same goes for passing & shooting with lesser able teamates.

 

[jflores]

Probably due to age, but I moved away from advanced shooting a couple of years ago because of this exact thing. It required to rapid a movement (probably wearing out my controllers!) to hit low shots, which are the most common shots for me. I find, that even with basic shooting, you still have quite a lot of control of where you place the shot. I'm saving switching to manual shooting for when I find the game too easy as I prefer to advance the difficulty like this than to just up the game level.

I used Advanced shooting in 2017/18 and all though I scored many goals, 97% of them were low shots because the high upper corner shots were so hard to execute. I've since then switched to manual shooting which brings a much more variation style of shots and much satisfaction when executing properly. I have performed every shot possible that you can do with Advance shooting with Manual Shooting. The shot variation with manual shooting is far superior to Basic/Advanced shooting and feels much more organic and very rewarding.

 

[PRO_TOO]

What would Maradona's market value be these days?.

i dont know if thats the exact article i was reading not so long ago, but have a look.
its an article written in german but you can see the names and numbers...
https://www.fussballfieber.de/p/chfdp3/weltstars-und-ihr-heutiger-marktwert

and more and more and more...:
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2018/04/22/7-football-legends-what-would-they-be-worth-today/

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-market-fees-window-records-17035190

 

[Emroth]

this is the first PES in years that I can really feel the stats playing a major part in how my players perform.

...even on manual, which is a Huge thing.
I didnt have a single rocket shot after the patch on manual shooting. I do see more semi-high, dipped shots and miss kicks. They really upped their game with shooting on all settings.
I know you mean all stats, but shooting is the one that stands out most on full manual.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Yeah i have, i think its best to speak to Sam about this and @zlac who managed to create a tactics batch export for PES 2017.it should be possible for 2020

Its criminal how Konami undersell the game with poor tactics.



I think we will do one at PES Universe, issue is we are all working hard on V2 with more teams and more content,

so no need for me to tweet about it...!? or should i!?
i'd really like to see that happening!

 

[hitmanuk]

...even on manual, which is a Huge thing.
I didnt have a single rocket shot after the patch on manual shooting. I do see more semi-high, dipped shots and miss kicks. They really upped their game with shooting on all settings.
I know you mean all stats, but shooting is the one that stands out most on full manual.

the miss kicks are really good, think one of my broadcast shows Henderson shooting on the volley as hes turning and its hopeless effort. I cursed myself for trying the shot as it was never on

 

[EatDrinkBeMerry]

QUOTE="Negatrev, post: 3435969, member: 13645"]But again, you say that but...

1. 
   How much have you played the game? Solidly since release & PES for 15 years.
   What difficulty levels and in what game modes are you playing? Superstar, PA 1, advanced sht, My club, ML, online lobby with mates and in an online league. lots of games, lots of experience not only myself noticing what i have said but many others.
   What players are being knocked off the ball? Strikers, midfielders all in attacking areas.
   What players are knocking you off the ball? defenders coming through the back and no foul given.
   Are you holding down dash when you are knocked over? no im a pro, not a noob.
   
   Are you using R2 to position the ball when receiving it? of course 1st touch is vital into the space.
   Have you watched back the replay to show where and what contact was made in the fouls/non-fouls to compare them? yes.
   
   What is the foul count for you and your opposition in the final match stats? dont know

I'm by no means an expert and have a very specific experience of the game (full manual passing, Professional difficulty, Master League with default players coming up on 2 seasons and a few dozen MyClub matches against humans). However, I rarely foul now. I get fouled quite a lot and often the foul doesn't even knock me over. I can even knock over the CPU without giving a foul a reasonable amount, especially when contesting a chased loose ball.

What do you think is 'way off'? How do you suggest it needs correcting?[/QUOTE] The nature of the fouls being given as i stated in my first post, its inconsistent and needs looked at, i offered a solution via the referees and implementing a leniency system within the refs, whereby you have refs who will blow for through the back tackles and refs who wont etc.

Why are you poo pooing my experience with this game with so many questions? This forum is for opinions on the game, not for me to justify my posts to an unknown.

 

[PRO_TOO]

Would be great if I knew how to perform half of them...

How the hell did he do that!!?

R3 (aka press RS)! guys... come on! basics!

again, i can only recommend reading the manual that comes with the game and go to the training ground! practice!!
dont want to come across like rude or something...!
edit: again, please dont get me wrong here. i just want all of you to know what controls are in the game so you can enjoy a good game of PES2020!

edit2: you can and should combine that with choosing a direction (LS). produces some lovely variety of outcomes!!

 

[Chuny]

@Eltoro1234 If you keep referring to us as "PES fan boys" which is used in a derogatory way, I'll show you the way out. I know you edited your post, but it just shows what your mindset is.
Also you've mention FIFA way too many times in this thread. So stop all of it now.

You are very new around here and if you've been following, you'll know we all get along more or less like family. Its a great gang. So join us and be nice.

 

[rockstrongo]

According to in game text, with 18 teams size ( I don’t think btw that Konami is so sophisticated to do it according draw size) it is:
1st (champion)-group stage CL
2nd- qualification stage CL
The 3 rest teams EL with the PEU cup winner included. And the spots from every league are locked unfortunately,do not change according to kind of League ranking.
It is 1+1* CL +3EL , but the part about EL is very bad translated in game since last year and it has a spell error this year, the same as last year, which makes things complicated.
I will post a screenshot later. Maybe an English speaker can explain it better.

Yes,I found it when going through leagues
Thanks my friend,might edit it to a smaller league

 

[Madmac79]

Despite my many grievances with the game (especially on 1.2) I must say, this is the first PES in years that I can really feel the stats playing a major part in how my players perform.

You really can feel the difference between poor, average, good & exceptional players and it's not just about pace & physicality. I had a couple of players in my ML who played on the wing & their crossing was absolutely abysmal & would often drift out of play with no whip or precision, really lovely to see. Same goes for passing & shooting with lesser able teamates.

Absolutely. That's the thing I love the most about this game as of now. I was playing a Konami Cup with Cruzeiro yesterday and for time in years I could really tell most players from the others just by the way they played even though it's a team in which there aren't stars or really really bad players (at least in the starting 11).

Giving this game to a stats relevance maniac after editions and editions of poor portraying is like giving cold water to a guy crossing the desert for days. It's so overwhelming and unexpected! I've finally rediscovered the joy of trying out a team just to see how X plays.

 

[Negatrev]

QUOTE="Negatrev, post: 3435969, member: 13645"]But again, you say that but...

1. 
   
   How much have you played the game? Solidly since release & PES for 15 years.
   What difficulty levels and in what game modes are you playing? Superstar, PA 1, advanced sht, My club, ML, online lobby with mates and in an online league. lots of games, lots of experience not only myself noticing what i have said but many others.
   What players are being knocked off the ball? Strikers, midfielders all in attacking areas.
   What players are knocking you off the ball? defenders coming through the back and no foul given.
   Are you holding down dash when you are knocked over? no im a pro, not a noob.
   
   Are you using R2 to position the ball when receiving it? of course 1st touch is vital into the space.
   Have you watched back the replay to show where and what contact was made in the fouls/non-fouls to compare them? yes.
   
   What is the foul count for you and your opposition in the final match stats? dont know

I'm by no means an expert and have a very specific experience of the game (full manual passing, Professional difficulty, Master League with default players coming up on 2 seasons and a few dozen MyClub matches against humans). However, I rarely foul now. I get fouled quite a lot and often the foul doesn't even knock me over. I can even knock over the CPU without giving a foul a reasonable amount, especially when contesting a chased loose ball.

What do you think is 'way off'? How do you suggest it needs correcting?

The nature of the fouls being given as i stated in my first post, its inconsistent and needs looked at, i offered a solution via the referees and implementing a leniency system within the refs, whereby you have refs who will blow for through the back tackles and refs who wont etc.

Why are you poo pooing my experience with this game with so many questions? This forum is for opinions on the game, not for me to justify my posts to an unknown.

I'm not poo-pooing your experience at all. I just asked questions as after about a dozen matches of play (where I was thinking the same as you) I looked at it in more detail and realised it was mostly on me, not the game and now I don't suffer these things at all. Perhaps the difference is the difficulty level you picked (it's not uncommon for higher difficulty levels to make the game less fair to raise the challenge). Perhaps you should play the Master League on a different setting and change the difficulty by switching to manual passing and/or shooting instead? Maybe you'll enjoy it more?

 

[Negatrev]

Absolutely. That's the thing I love the most about this game as of now. I was playing a Konami Cup with Cruzeiro yesterday and for time in years I could really tell most players from the others just by the way they played even though it's a team in which there aren't stars or really really bad players (at least in the starting 11).

Giving this game to a stats relevance maniac after editions and editions of poor portraying is like giving cold water to a guy crossing the desert for days. It's so overwhelming and unexpected! I've finally rediscovered the joy of trying out a team just to see how X plays.

It makes Master League signings feel so much more satisfying when a player added means you can do something you simply couldn't do before. Like having different options in a position means you can change your entire tactics if you want and know they will work better now with this new cog in the machine.

 

[rockstrongo]

Absolutely. That's the thing I love the most about this game as of now. I was playing a Konami Cup with Cruzeiro yesterday and for time in years I could really tell most players from the others just by the way they played even though it's a team in which there aren't stars or really really bad players (at least in the starting 11).

Giving this game to a stats relevance maniac after editions and editions of poor portraying is like giving cold water to a guy crossing the desert for days. It's so overwhelming and unexpected! I've finally rediscovered the joy of trying out a team just to see how X plays.

Though it's a game with flaws etc,I tried to play a few other football games last night,and the difference in how this looks/flows/player movement /how the players pass etc,it's so much better.
For good or bad,it's ruined my other football games completely