eFootball (All Platforms)

vialli82 said:
But every game got their "sim" and their "arcade" derivation.
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I'm of the opinion now that sports games shouldn't be sim. They should be entirely arcade. Especially ones that focus more on multiplayer and competitive (so pretty much all of them). No game, where you are playing against another human, should be decided by rng. Your inputs should be the only thing that determines outcome. That's the only way to make things fair and potentially balanced. Because you cannot properly balance something if random outcomes have to also be accounted for. But that's my opinion.

RexBanner said:
All sports games suck ass now, it's the late stage capitalism where everyone only cares about squeezing as much profit from everything as they can.
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It's not just sports games unfortunately. Reoccurring payments on games, both f2p and paid, has become normalized. I realize that a lot of gaming really isn't for me anymore.

pesfooty29 said:
I have over 900 play time hours in PES. I should be the one bragging here lol.

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lol the only games I have a ton of hours on is football manager
 
aderow said:
No game, where you are playing against another human, should be decided by rng. Your inputs should be the only thing that determines outcome. That's the only way to make things fair and potentially balanced. Because you cannot properly balance something if random outcomes have to also be accounted for. But that's my opinion.
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The thing that most people who complain about rng don't realize though is that managing RNG is actually a skill too. Real football is about managing rng too in many ways. But you're entitled to your opinion of course.

How do you feel about the different ratings and the pay to win factor though? Surely that's way more unfair if you're only concerned about the skill of the two people playing against each other. I would say an even bigger factor than having to manage rng. Pretty much the unfairness elephant in the room of competitive gaming. No assisted passing should be allowed either. 100% user input, right?

It's just a bit strange to me that the only thing that seems to bother people in these games is rng (which is a manageable thing/skill, although obviously much different in nature than timing a button press. One is about thinking tactically - I would even dare say it's the whole football "logic" thing. The other about, well, making good use of your fingers I guess).
 
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It is not known yet when they will add offline modes, but I am already wondering what it will look like. It's not standalone game anymore, it's gaas. And I don't think it's a one-time purchase of the Master League. I'm afraid it will be something like an annual subscription for Master League season, because the base game will be updated all the time, including lineups. I do not think that they will close the current game (gameplay) in a package with the current ML season, because they gave it up.
 
krzysiek923 said:
It is not known yet when they will add offline modes, but I am already wondering what it will look like. It's not standalone game anymore, it's gaas. And I don't think it's a one-time purchase of the Master League. I'm afraid it will be something like an annual subscription for Master League season, because the base game will be updated all the time, including lineups. I do not think that they will close the current game (gameplay) in a package with the current ML season, because they gave it up.
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It would be the same as Save the world of Fortnite, a dlc that has a Game Mode different from the main one with its own updates and with a single payment
 
janguv said:
Point 1 is false, per my argument in the last post; what you say isn't an effective argument against mine, but just a stating of the presupposition I explicitly denied. You might have an argument for your assertion, but at present it's just bald. Point 2 is false, as anyone with a memory of PES can attest; the difference between old PES interceptions and match-up interceptions now (by which I mean pre-2023, since I've not played much of that, to your shock and horror) is that match-up intercepting animations are much more frequent and exaggerated. A similar claim to your point 3 is in my first paragraph in the post you're replying to. Point 4 involves an assertion I also made, you just place a different value judgement on it; as for the physical defending option – it's not that unique or different, and in any case, your player will auto-tackle when close enough anyway, whether you want it or not. Point 5 – ah, the much-vaunted intentional interceptions; have argued at length about that before, don't really need to rehearse it. It's funny how, in your elaboration of this really super intentional mechanism you end up exposing how automated it is: "You place your player close to the ball's path with match up engaged, and he will attempt to intercept it." Manual defending, ladies and gentlemen!
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So in short, all my points are false, all your points based on your single game are, not false.

janguv said:
I could go more in-depth here
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I'm not sure if you're joking or if you really think:

- You can actually go in-depth analyzing EF based on your extensive experience playing it
- You think you've already gone in-depth a little, so that any more talk would be considered "more" in-depth.

As I said, the loudest voice, for no reason whatsoever. This thread is an echo chamber for people who haven't played the game, but enjoy spending time talking about it.
 
janguv said:
Perhaps, yes, what you mean by separate and what I took you to mean are different things, then. Honestly, I struggled to see what you meant in most of this reply! (Not having a dig, just saying it's unclear to me.)

E.g., this sounds like you mean something that's quite separate indeed –

...and I really don't think we have any evidence, let alone anything clear, to this effect.


And again with the clear and obvious which seems, to me anyway, pretty unclear and obscure! Like, really, we have had no peep from them about crossplay stuff, probably pretty deliberately because they're so far behind on their original plans. I would say we have a little evidence in the other direction, even: they've made a game with exactly the same UI and feature set on both mobile and console/PC. In the past, though there was a fair amount of UI crossover, it was not exact like this. It would be imo a pretty drastic 180 to be offering up this consistent UI and feature set (and in my view, gameplay as well), but have no plans now to go through on crossplay.


This is where I get confused about the kind of separateness you really mean, because what you're describing here does not point to a crossplay-cancelling issue. The graphical elements were always going to be scaled down; the control scheme (insofar as it's touchscreen only), always more simplified. But none of that counts against crossplay compatibility. Maybe you are thinking of the "toned down gameplay", but I don't know what you mean by that, I'm afraid!


This is really flimsy evidence, though! From memory (and it would be good if someone could confirm this; it's probably in this very thread somewhere lol), they only removed the logos or mention of mobile OSes from one page on their website, and a short while after they added them back again. And there could be many explanations for that – not least that they were behind on delivering mobile (much further delayed because of the catastrophic rollout on console and PC), and wanted to cool expectations.
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Hi man. The way I explained things regarding this discussion was to try and be as un-meticulous as possible as i juggle all these great and bad tasks from day to day. I apologies if I did seem rather vague and undetailed in my perspective.

Cross play, no cross play, mobile being the same as the PS4 version or whatever. The most important thing is Konami have zero excuse for not delivering a high quality football game. There's zero sympathy from me regarding the shitshow from 0.9.0., 0.9.1 or 2.0.0 while being very good offline and nice using authentic teams, there's nothing to do or use any of these teams in matches that matter and Dream team is just shit, the god like ratings turns it into a FUT wannabe mode which is quite stupid really as FUT doesn't need gameplay to get people playing, it simply has so much more to do and players to use at all levels.

Getting back to this discussion the last paragraph is the main reason for my point on the mobile version being separate and the very significant graphical downgrade i saw while playing the mobile version on release. The mobile version in terms of assets right now doesn't even include many of the stadiums we see in any of the console versions, that along with how downgraded the graphics are show a separate team is optimizing the game at a bare minimum just for the mobile version. This was also for me the biggest reason 0.9.0. was the worst disaster in the franchises history as their original roadmap planned for full cross play between all devices at some point but for this to happen whenever the mobile version dropped it needed to be compatible with at least whatever gameplay they had setup for the 'current gen' 'PS4/XBONE' versions. They didn't set any of this up properly and the worst disaster unfolded and they launched with an pre alpha version of the game as the only version they had which could fulfill their original roadmap, or roadmap to hell as it was really. They had a version of the game not quite as good as 1.0.0, but similar with a few more bugs of course which some of our PES Universe guys with other community members tested September 2021 which never got the go ahead for release.

As for the separate release date – that was always the case. They advertised that with their initial press release info, iirc. We had a release date for 0.9.0 before mobile release date was announced, and that was much to the annoyance of that player base as well. Meanwhile, on their roadmap, they had 3 stages of introducing crossplay: first between Xbox and PS platforms; next between those platforms and Steam; and then last, between those and mobile. Most recently, they forecasted "winter 2022" for stages 1 and 2 (now combined).

The fact they didn't mention stage 3 isn't really evidence of the game's being so separate that crossplay is impossible now; it's probably just expectation management, and also nobody is badgering them with requests for this feature (unlike, say, ML).

Why is any of this important or worth thinking about? Well, the idea I think behind your insisting the versions are separate now is here:

i.e., it's the idea that there won't be limitations based on mobile hardware limitations ("what it can handle") – even though you also said that mobiles were essentially capable of PS4-level performance.

So the optimism in insisting the versions are separate is that we can expect better things from eFootball on console/PC in the near future. But I rather think it's the wishful thinking about that better future which here fuels how you interpret the lack of mobile crossplay news these days! View it from the other direction, as I do, and you get this: we're still getting that crossplay because they planned extensively for it (it's just delayed), and so we have limited reasons for optimism about the gameplay improvements.
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So overall I can sum up my awareness on this from everything I have seen.

I don't deny or doubt Konami still want to go full cross play between all devices at some point like they originally planned. When this will happen, who knows as it seems like their large ambitions to get all the versions equal enough to make it happened have failed initially and have been shelved for the foreseeable future until the get any progress in figuring it all out. Instead have the console versions and the mobile versions while sharing most aspects, not sharing all of them and cross play will come only between all consoles with the mobile not being compatible yet.

The PSP was released about 5 years after the PS2 came out.

Solid modern smartphones could play PS3 level games like FIFA 14 around 2014 or maybe earlier iirc.

So its the year 2022, even last year it should be possible for smartphones to run PS4 level gameplay, the issue is the asset scale down conversion compared to previous generation games isn't as easy as Konami thought it would be and they failed.

As for me harboring optimism on 'no mobile distraction', I not sure where this came from tbh, made this entire point based on the significant changes we see the mobile version has compared to consoles and not in hope either, I just made a point really that its not the same exact game like they planned for in the original roadmap, that was it. I mean I think offline manual is really good right now vs Superstar, Authentic matches have really good potential as I had some nice games against people so when eventually this game gives me something to do I will be happy.

Everything about Dream Team no edit mode etc..... is shitshow. I made my point about how annoyed I am with how barebones everything is, theres no excuse for me.

As I repeat, there no excuse for Konami not making the mobile version a quality product unlike the dogshit PS1 like graphics we see on it right now. If they actually delivered quality on the mobile, I think a lot less people would hate the idea so much imo.

So i hope i made things more clear in this post on where I was coming from. I may take some time in these next few weeks or so but always will rely to anything you feel like having a good discussion on.
 
The_Knight said:
So in short, all my points are false, all your points based on your single game are, not false.
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No. Yet again, you're struggling with reading comprehension. Having played one match of eFootball 2023, two weeks ago, I was able to make an early summation that it looked like they hadn't fixed the lack of midfield game (it's been that way for years, so why would they) and that the manual passing bug is still there – you don't need lots of games to notice that.

The more recent post you've gone Rambo on isn't about eFootball 2023 specifically, but about the versions of the game I actually did put more time into. And that's clear from the context. (Not least that I also said as much in the last post.)

Notwithstanding, this whole idea that you need lots of time with the game to be able to report accurately on the game or have well-adjusted opinions is demonstrably false. This forum has never required gametime as a ticket of entry or to validate views on the game, and your constant insistence on it, again, smells bad.

Lastly, I didn't say all your points were false; I even said that some of your points were restatements of mine, such is your inattention to the actual flow of argument.

I've no desire to keep up this exchange with you. You've made it clear you have a personal vendetta, and I'd rather have a back and forth discussion with people who can read and respond to what I've said in good faith.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
All of you are wrong. Before V2 the game was clearly a good if not the best footy game on the pitch. Now its in shambles.
Its run and gun wrestling game where you can smash your opponent to the ground without fouling, where only quick counter works and basic rules and principals of football and physics do not .

Every game is the same fucking nonsense even if you win or lose. Its a struggle to play the game because at the moment IT IS BROKEN. Buy Haaland and Upamecano and other 190cm 90kg players with 85 acceleration and you can play smash football competitively.

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gabe

Dream Team is a pile of shit.

I had one of the worst sessions I've ever had on this franchise playing Dream Team last Monday.

To sum it up I was 4-1 down vs some dude after 60'. I won 6-4 with a Haaland hat trick. I did no celebrate any goals whatsoever, I didn't care, just wanted to finish the challenge to get the 50 coins. You would think winning in this way would be a joy, absolutely not. Its pure wannabe FUT cheeseball. The overpowered defending plus cheeseball all out attack 4-2-4/4CB etc... nonsense like tactics which only work due to the insane ratings almost every player has even in weaker 2100 level teams with the overpowered automatic defending just kills the realism and brings all the worst flaws out.

Authentic matches however do present good football especially offline and online is good too. While the still has flaws, the biggest issue with dream team is the Insane rated players and playstyle cheese.

I think for your own sanity mate, don't touch this until Konami pull their finger out for us offline players.
 
janguv said:
No. Yet again, you're struggling with reading comprehension. Having played one match of eFootball 2023, two weeks ago, I was able to make an early summation that it looked like they hadn't fixed the lack of midfield game (it's been that way for years, so why would they) and that the manual passing bug is still there – you don't need lots of games to notice that.

The more recent post you've gone Rambo on isn't about eFootball 2023 specifically, but about the versions of the game I actually did put more time into. And that's clear from the context. (Not least that I also said as much in the last post.)

Notwithstanding, this whole idea that you need lots of time with the game to be able to report accurately on the game or have well-adjusted opinions is demonstrably false. This forum has never required gametime as a ticket of entry or to validate views on the game, and your constant insistence on it, again, smells bad.

Lastly, I didn't say all your points were false; I even said that some of your points were restatements of mine, such is your inattention to the actual flow of argument.

I've no desire to keep up this exchange with you. You've made it clear you have a personal vendetta, and I'd rather have a back and forth discussion with people who can read and respond to what I've said in good faith.
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Let me try that one last time.

You keep making fun of my hours of playing the game, as if it's just a bragging number, and that there's nothing to learn about EF that you couldn't have possibly learned in your single match playing the game. Here's a few examples of a few things that need time.

When I first started playing EF, I couldn't use match up. I didn't know how important it was, I resorted to the regular press. But I noticed that more experienced players were just intercepting my passing quite easily. I arrived at your same conclusion: "omg ball interceptions are exaggerated in EF!".

Then after many hours of playing the game, I changed my control scheme to allow easier access to match up, and I noticed that now I can intercept passes a lot easier. I also learned that I need to pass away from opponent players, to avoid them cutting them off. It changed my passing game and these exaggerated interceptions gave my passing a completely new dimension I never thought about when I used to play PES.

But, does that mean interceptions aren't exaggerated in EF? No. Compared to real-life, YES, interceptions are exaggerated 100%. And they had to be exaggerated, because unlike real life, people in EF aren't using manual controls. In real life, players manually pass each ball, and each pass no matter how easy is associated with a certain risk. In EF, without this exaggerated ability to intercept passes, watch online as a team goes up by a single goal, then spends the entire game passing the ball around with complete impunity, risk-free, on Pass Support Level 1, while your players run around like headless chicken incapable of intercepting the ball.

In real life, a game lasts 90 minutes, in a football game, it's a 10-15 minute affair. Mechanisms that ensure timely shifting of ball possession need to exist for a game to be playable, as even 5 minutes of risk-free, interception-free assisted passing could completely make the game unplayable after a single goal. The exaggerated interceptions are one of those mechanisms, among many others that make a 10-minute game as exciting as a 90-minute real match.

There's plenty you can learn about EF the more you play it. Even I with 200 hours of playing, initially hated 2.0 and was ready to bash it in a review, but then I stuck with it, and found that the reduced inertia enhanced the passing game, and allowed for more probing, rather than just straight up dribbling. Things always need time to sink in to form a well-rounded impression of a game, and this game is no exception to that.

Again, nothing is perfect, and I hope my words aren't twisted into the usual "EF defender!" talk. I have plenty of criticisms about this game that I won't divert into right now.
 
Can people please learn how to have a difference of opinion without resorting to thinly veiled insults like "ha you've played it for hours, nerd", "you can't read" and/or "you're not entitled to an opinion". I'm not sure if you realise this, but I promise you, all people see when you say such obvious attempts at hurting each other is "this is pretty sad".

You two (you know who I'm addressing here) have been warned about this before, and I'm warning both of you equally, because your opinions are both valid, no matter how much you may wish they weren't. Learn to discuss without the insults or stop posting.

And while we're at it, please stop intimating (or outright expressing) that people should stop expressing their negative opinions about the game. It is honestly laughable to me that negativity is always construed as toxic posting "to look cool" (like a website about a video game could ever be cool to anyone ever, we're all obsessed with video games and we're the least cool people alive). It just reflects as the desire to silence people who don't agree with you. On a video game.

I'm bored of posting this guys. Please start talking like adults - and that doesn't mean being passive-aggressive in your insults, because we're not fucking stupid, we all see it.
 
Chris Davies said:
And while we're at it, please stop intimating (or outright expressing) that people should stop expressing their negative opinions about the game. It is honestly laughable to me that negativity is always construed as toxic posting "to look cool" (like a website about a video game could ever be cool to anyone ever, we're all obsessed with video games and we're the least cool people alive).
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:LOL: Love that comment. Although its 2022 Chris, nowadays all the youth do is play video games and its the cool thing to do compared to the 80s, 90s and early 2000s were you were bullied and called a nerd if you played games for longer than 4 hours a week since going out all day and playing really was the shit back then in those time for kids.

Nowadays even on a nice day outside kids would rather sit indoors on their devices all day. Crisis of Vitamin D i tell you.
 
As an 85 born I can't remember ever being at school and seeing videogames ostracized by others.. as far as I recall all the cool guys used to either play as well or just accept it as a normal social "thing" lol. It was more for adults to piss on gaming.

I guess today we probably are seen uncool, that's true.. not really for gaming itself tho, but for this weird obsession of not liking FUT or MYC 😅
 
Can KONAMI support more than one football projects?
My opinion is:

- They should have the mobile project and they should focus on Asia...But it should be available for other regions too...With name Efootball mobile
- They should create a next gen offline version (exhibition, Master League, League+Cup etc ) with next gen graphics, online modes, with full fake teams and leagues (only players should be licensed) but with a great edit mode...I mean we should be able to create everything with a simple way using the ingame editor, face editor something similar to facegen, stadium editor etc...
- They should keep that new style of football game for Asian with sht graphics, online mode, and pay for download shits...With name Efootball...
 
Falcao_9 said:
They should create a next gen offline version (exhibition, Master League, League+Cup etc ) with next gen graphics, online modes, with full fake teams and leagues (only players should be licensed)
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Not even necessary. Look at how cool FIFA International Soccer and ISS Deluxe were, back in the day, even without licenses.
I'd rather see them spend 100% of their budget on development than spending more than half of it in licenses and the remainder of it in development.
 
*aLe said:
Not even necessary. Look at how cool FIFA International Soccer and ISS Deluxe were, back in the day, even without licenses.
I'd rather see them spend 100% of their budget on development than spending more than half of it in licenses and the remainder of it in development.
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The licenses/partner clubs are a strange one because, when so much of their philosophy is on aggressively marketing Dream Team and they want their players to spend the majority of their time in; making a fantasy team with a random kit & badge meanwhile having no function for the licensed clubs outside of souleas exhibitions and online events...

There's not much justification anymore for spending the money on acquiring partner clubs.
 
Falcao_9 said:
Can KONAMI support more than one football projects?
My opinion is:

- They should have the mobile project and they should focus on Asia...But it should be available for other regions too...With name Efootball mobile
- They should create a next gen offline version (exhibition, Master League, League+Cup etc ) with next gen graphics, online modes, with full fake teams and leagues (only players should be licensed) but with a great edit mode...I mean we should be able to create everything with a simple way using the ingame editor, face editor something similar to facegen, stadium editor etc...
- They should keep that new style of football game for Asian with sht graphics, online mode, and pay for download shits...With name Efootball...
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Aye...you're not leaving me here with eFootball, you cant. Konami have had plenty chance to focus on the market on their doorstep & all they did was get the ACL, Thai League and CSL
 
manmachine said:
The thing that most people who complain about rng don't realize though is that managing RNG is actually a skill too. Real football is about managing rng too in many ways. But you're entitled to your opinion of course.

How do you feel about the different ratings and the pay to win factor though? Surely that's way more unfair if you're only concerned about the skill of the two people playing against each other. I would say an even bigger factor than having to manage rng. Pretty much the unfairness elephant in the room of competitive gaming. No assisted passing should be allowed either. 100% user input, right?

It's just a bit strange to me that the only thing that seems to bother people in these games is rng (which is a manageable thing/skill, although obviously much different in nature than timing a button press. One is about thinking tactically - I would even dare say it's the whole football "logic" thing. The other about, well, making good use of your fingers I guess).
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Managing and mitigating the risk that can come with random outcomes is a skill...I can agree to that. But my overarching point here is most people do not really want that. They don't want to manage randomness and frankly they don't want real football (basketball or whatever other sport). Hence why I made the comment about arcade over 'sim'. I did make the mistake of leaving out attributes. What I should've said was attributes and player input should be the only thing that impacts results so that's my mistake.

Pay to win sucks. I hate it. But it's never going away because capitalism so there's no point talking about it.

I don't think it would strange for people to want their wins and losses to be determined by what they did with their controller or keyboard instead of factors that were outside of their control no matter how manageable those factors are. I don't most people really want anything to do with that. And I think that's a reason why a lot of people end up playing these types of games in a very similar fashion.
 
aderow said:
Managing and mitigating the risk that can come with random outcomes is a skill...I can agree to that. But my overarching point here is most people do not really want that. They don't want to manage randomness and frankly they don't want real football (basketball or whatever other sport).
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Can't disagree with that. I can't tell others which things they should or shouldn't want, I can only maybe argue about what those things truly mean. So if football logic/RNG management (it's the same thing really) is not wanted, people should not be claiming that now the game's more about skill. They just prefer or better understand the concept of skill in terms of gamepad skillz instead of real football logic.

And I do fully agree that people playing FUT/dream team do not want a football game, some are honest about it some not, and these games are neither about football nor properly competitive as far as I am concerned (assisted settings, pay 2 win, zero football logic, gimmicky mechanics that supposedly add skill, etc). Just con jobs to sell player cards, apart from that nothing really matters.
 
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manmachine said:
Can't disagree with that. I can't tell others which things they should or shouldn't want, I can only maybe argue about what those things truly mean. So if football logic/RNG management (it's the same thing really) is not wanted, people should not be claiming that now the game's more about skill. They just prefer or better understand the concept of skill in terms of gamepad skillz instead of real football logic.
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Some people are only interested in knowledge of video game and not of the sport it's based on imo. They want in game mechanics that they can understand and execute easily. I think it's a shame and takes away from the experience and it's why I tend to avoid online in general.

manmachine said:
And I do fully agree that people playing FUT/dream team do not want a football game, some are honest about it some not, and these games are neither about football nor properly competitive as far as I am concerned (assisted settings, pay 2 win, zero football logic, gimmicky mechanics that supposedly add skill, etc). Just con jobs to sell player cards, apart from that nothing really matters.
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Oh absolutely a lot of people are not honest with themselves and what they want from a football game lol.

Ultimate team/dream team/myteam are just gacha modes and gacha modes are really just casinos at this point.
 
aderow said:
I think it's a shame and takes away from the experience and it's why I tend to avoid online in general.
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Same. The real problem is that they're not making an offline version of the gameplay, you're supposed to play the same crap game as people online do & pay for it. So now I just avoid new football games in general and don't care one bit about them releasing ML or not. I'm sure the quality will be on par with their amazing mobile menu designs. 😅
 
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