eFootball (All Platforms)

[ftuner]

But guys, we're all shocked and embarrassed by how our old friend PES has regressed. I think that we are the problem, what we are seeing (enduring, suffering) is not directed at us, but rather has a wide community of young people who have never seen it or played it and it is totally new for them.
I think we must assimilate that we are out of the equation, and I am the first to resist, I think this morning I woke up melancholy

 

[Redhat]

Seen footage.

Not quite as bad as I expected. I love the movement and animations which make it look like a new engine. There so much potential here, this was the big flaw of the fox engine they have really come out good for this new unreal platform engine which enhances what was from the Fox Engine code.

I'm sure eFootball will have bits here and there that look and feel absolutely phenomenal. That tends to be the case with modern PES, they flatter to deceive. There are times where I look on in awe with some of the recent titles. The way the ball spins, a bit of dribbling, a contextual animation, but then my player forgets what basic human locomotion is or players forget they're on a football pitch and I proceed to exit the game. High praise one moment, despair the next. To flip an old saying, modern PES's part are greater than the whole.

I'm hoping one day that won't be the case because each release always has a lot of potential, but ultimately falls flat in a lot of areas (especially on a fundamental level). No matter how nice a 50-yard diagonal might look, it doesn't disguise the fact that they're fundamentally flawed games.

 

[staffan]

Just off the first two gameplay videos I've seen of eFootball and FIFA 22, eFootball looks more current/next gen than FIFA. Was pleasantly surprised by how eFootball looks.

What did it for you, the tennis ball pitch textures? I mean that's just an absurd statement on its face, there may be things in the eFootball footage you can point at as looking better/more true to life than FIFA 22, but to say it's more next-gen is just baffling and sets the tone for the rest of the nonsense you wrote after.

I can't comment on gameplay because I need to actually play it. Everyone has different styles of playing so would be foolish to judge gameplay based on a video.

Absolute nonsense, as Matt10 said in his video there is a huge amount you can analyse by watching videos. Aside from everything visual including animation, there's positioning, off the ball movement, physics etc. etc.

I get people are pissed off because of the name change, but it's free to play now

That's just trolling at this point surely, implying the name change is the only thing people are annoyed about is simply idiotic.

The nitpicking over footage of a game that has been explicitly been described as a demo at launch is embarrassing.

What's embarassing is that you swallow every PR line uncritically and then get your panties in a twist because the majority of people don't share your level of blind devotion.

Why would anyone who genuinely loves this football series want it to fail because it's actually evolving like its previous name said it would.

Is it evolving or devolving? Because in many respects it appears to be the latter.

There's going to be a transitional period, so let's help with the development of eFootball rather than kill it off before it's even had a chance to breathe.

Judging by a lot of the reaction on social media it's going to be transitioning into an early grave.

 

[klashman69]

I'm sure eFootball will have bits here and there that look and feel absolutely phenomenal. That tends to be the case with every PES game. There are times where I look on in awe with some of the recent titles. The way the ball spins, a bit of dribbling, a contextual animation, but then my player forgets what basic human locomotion is or forgets he's on a football pitch and it makes me exit the game. High praise one moment, despair the next. To flip an old saying, modern PES's part are greater than the whole. I'm hoping one day it won't be like that because each release always has a lot of potential, but ultimately falls flat.

Konami have a lot of explaining to do because as you said it seems this year we have been lied to and Konami need to come out and be honest on what has changed from their original plan.

There is no way efootball 2022 is 3 years of work. Some of it defiantly has been developed over a few years like the movement/dribbling aspect, some touches like jackets and kit accessories came from some of our teams feedback so Konami do sometimes listen, sometimes lol. Regardless, we need answers, there needs to be an inquest at least because why are the game in such disarray just 3 weeks from launch is a shambles!

But this year in general has been absolutely atrocious and terrible, even worse than last year and we just have to accept it and complain of course but importantly accept what we have as good or rubbish, understand is this worth it or not worth it and point them forward. I can see like you this game isn't finished, so when we play this we know there will be many bugs. My focus is will this actually be playable in late October or January as I think there's enough there for a 6/10 game for the very least.

I know. Sad isn't it? This is how low or expectations are and no way is this good enough, but as I have been reminded this year, life is never perfect and you gotta make the best hand of what fate has given you. Maybe I'm just too old to wait for the perfect game anymore or maybe collectively none of us have time to wait for it. Just celebrate good and make the most of it when it arrives. This release has been so negative in general, you can take one silver lining in that there are so many bugs and issues which are obvious, much in self evidence doesn't even need to be discussed in much depth, so I'm focusing on potential and future.

 

[Goldstone]

There's a new gameplay video floating around on Twitter but it's not showing much unfortunately.

 

[robbieryan]

Just off the first two gameplay videos I've seen of eFootball and FIFA 22, eFootball looks more current/next gen than FIFA. Was pleasantly surprised by how eFootball looks.

I can't comment on gameplay because I need to actually play it. Everyone has different styles of playing so would be foolish to judge gameplay based on a video.

I see the majority on here want to see eFootball fail and gleefully picking out negatives rather than looking for any positives. I get people are pissed off because of the name change, but it's free to play now, updates will come and we need to give the game a chance. The nitpicking over footage of a game that has been explicitly been described as a demo at launch is embarrassing. Why would anyone who genuinely loves this football series want it to fail because it's actually evolving like its previous name said it would.

There's going to be a transitional period, so let's help with the development of eFootball rather than kill it off before it's even had a chance to breathe.

It's not just a new name, it's simply not the same series anymore and it's targeted at different people that grew with the series for 26 years who also happen to be the majority of the people on this site.

I don't think anyone wants it to fail, but what is being shown is simply the game moving in a direction even further away from those people, it just also happens that footage is truly garbage.

Konami aren't targeting the game at us anymore so we don't owe it to them to 'help with the development' your post is insulting and sounds like it would be directly from Adam or the cucks at PESUniverse

 

[SmichiW]

for me Gameplay looks good but i think they should let modders work together with konami like they will do in Cyberpunk

 

[muham_istau]

They did this to fix clipping. It's a trade-off.

I don't think it's worth it... The purpose of a cutscene is to make the game more immersive, but when they all have the same height in it is just taking you out of the immersion. Well, clipping in the cutscene also does that I guess

Maybe they can categories the player height into some groups.. so they don't need to create an animation skeleton for every height.....

 

[NIK778899]

What's embarassing is that you swallow every PR line uncritically and then get your panties in a twist because the majority of people don't share your level of blind devotion.

We've all been there

 

[muham_istau]

for me Gameplay looks good but i think they should let modders work together with konami like they will do in Cyberpunk

Konami be like: "It's a really good idea, to bring even better game experience and include more communities to improve the game in general....... but nah"

 

[PRO_TOO]

The players have the same height in celebrations because they're dumb pre-determined animations of players interacting together, without room for modifying the animations according to player heights.

For e.g. If a celebration requires a player to hold another one from his shoulder, the hand would need to grab slightly higher or slightly lower if it was a smart animation. But since they're dumb fixed animations, all the players are given the same height and build so that players' hands wouldn't go through other players torso while interacting. Needless to say, these haven't been an issue in FIFA for several, several years, were all the animations are smart and modifying themselves according to player height.

Did you notice when watching the other games gameplay footage... game is running, a goal is scored, match cam shows the last seconds of the scene were the scorer usually starts celebrating. The cam then switches to a close up cam, to show the celebration in full glory. Other players joining the dance. Thing is, the scorers celebration movement (right after the goal, still in match cam) isn’t cut from that close up celebration scene that follows... it translates beautifully (different height if players included). Even simple arm movements aren’t cut, just the cam is switching... as it’s supposed to be!! I don’t like those pre-determined cutscenes that are clearly a separate thing from the actual gameplay.
Super minor stuff but it adds, imo.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

Those two lads, who obviously never played a footie game before, play the PS5 version??

 

[Superhoop]

It's funny how by giving the game a chance, I'm accused of blind devotion by some. If the game is absolute garbage, I won't play it. Like PES 2016 for example. That had multiple things wrong with it, right up until the end of its life.

eFootball may be absolutely dire and relatively unplayable on release. If that's the case I'll be patient and return to it again after any substantial updates. Maybe it'll never have the magic of old PES. Who knows. But I want it to succeed and will happily give feedback to see the game evolve. I'm saying evolve from its starting eFootball state. Of course it's devolved so far from the PES games. We only have 9 teams at launch and only two modes! But eFootball will evolve.

I'm only really interested in offline coop playing a World Cup and Master League. If I can't eventually do these, I'll be pissed off too. I expect them to come back, but seeing is believing. As I said though, I'll pass judgement when they're either confirmed as coming back or confirmed as being scrapped.

Sorry if my stance on this goes completely against how you're approaching this traditional period of the PES/eFootball series. I'm just prepared to give this game a chance over the long term.

 

[Joga]

It's funny how by giving the game a chance, I'm accused of blind devotion by some. If the game is absolute garbage, I won't play it. Like PES 2016 for example. That had multiple things wrong with it, right up until the end of its life.

eFootball may be absolutely dire and relatively unplayable on release. If that's the case I'll be patient and return to it again after any substantial updates. Maybe it'll never have the magic of old PES. Who knows. But I want it to succeed and will happily give feedback to see the game evolve. I'm saying evolve from its starting eFootball state. Of course it's devolved so far from the PES games. We only have 9 teams at launch and only two modes! But eFootball will evolve.

I'm only really interested in offline coop playing a World Cup and Master League. If I can't eventually do these, I'll be pissed off too. I expect them to come back, but seeing is believing. As I said though, I'll pass judgement when they're either confirmed as coming back or confirmed as being scrapped.

Sorry if my stance on this goes completely against how you're approaching this traditional period of the PES/eFootball series. I'm just prepared to give this game a chance over the long term.

Your stance is insulting people who have a different opinion? Let's all just shutup then & play what we are given?

Educate yourself or keep running in your little hamster wheel mate

EDIT: allow me to expand .. if you have an actual attention span, ALL of PES's problems dating back to the ps2 transition is well documented not only in this forum, but this very thread.
There are users here with infinite knowledge of the series. This is experience talking. NOT negativity. We LOVED this game, that is why we are here.

It's funny that we are made to be angry snowflakes. But the only snowflakes I see are KOINAMI & people who are too deluded to accept any criticism of KOINAMI.

 

[godoffootball]

Animations are the last problems that bother them.

The only thing that interests them is that the game will be similar to FIFA in his response.

 

[Peter Withe]

There are so many people on the WEPES Reddit throwing tantrums about the people who are critical toward eFootball.

It’s quite incredible how after all of these years of bad games, broken promises and Master League being an afterthought that Konami still have generic fanboys worshipping their every move regardless of context.

I’ve literally seen “But at least eFootball will still be a simulation unlike FIFA”.

How the fucking fuck is PES a simulation? It hasn’t been one for years. It’s the most dumbed down, basic football game in the modern era and is about to get even more simplified.

I’ve never understood an individual’s need to blindly support a giant company which essentially doesn’t give a shit about any of us.

 

[robbieryan]

There are so many people on the WEPES Reddit throwing tantrums about the people who are critical toward eFootball.

It’s quite incredible how after all of these years of bad games, broken promises and Master League being an afterthought that Konami still have generic fanboys worshipping their every move regardless of context.

I’ve literally seen “But at least eFootball will still be a simulation unlike FIFA”.

How the fucking fuck is PES a simulation? It hasn’t been one for years. It’s the most dumbed down, basic football game in the modern era and is about to get even more simplified.

I’ve never understood an individual’s need to blindly support a giant company which essentially doesn’t give a shit about any of us.

the game is different.

different name
different controls
different modes
different licenses
different engine (sort of)
different platforms
different producer
different payment model

the only thing that's the same is the flaws that already existed in the previous games that are evident in the videos.

include the fact that Adam said on twitter the game isn't for Older PES Fans and they've found a different crowd, not that we needed that to be explicitly said. it's clear from the name change and branding that this is intended to not be confused with PES.

Why should life long fans of PES 'give it a chance', simply because it's a konami made football game? that's mindless behaviour.

you can only treat this as an unknown new game, and given what has been presented so far in the marketing, PR and video footage. if you are brimming with joy about what what will be coming sept 30th then you either work for Konami or have blind loyalty to them. so bizarre.

 

[Madmac79]

Yeah, it's beyond ridiculous for what it's worth.

"We butchered and reassembled your favourite game you religiously played for the last 20 more years to cater for an entire different crowd but yeah, even if the absolute last thing we had in mind when we put it togheter were your tastes give it a chance all the same guys, we could spare a few more euros after all".

Again I don't care much for this pr stuff but it really sounds like adding insult to injury lol.

 

[Superhoop]

Your stance is insulting people who have a different opinion? Let's all just shutup then & play what we are given?

Educate yourself or keep running in your little hamster wheel mate

EDIT: allow me to expand .. if you have an actual attention span, ALL of PES's problems dating back to the ps2 transition is well documented not only in this forum, but this very thread.
There are users here with infinite knowledge of the series. This is experience talking. NOT negativity. We LOVED this game, that is why we are here.

It's funny that we are made to be angry snowflakes. But the only snowflakes I see are KOINAMI & people who are too deluded to accept any criticism of KOINAMI.

I've been playing this series every year since ISS Pro on PS1, so have plenty of experience too. PES 5 for me and still is the pinnacle. I wouldn't play it over PES 2021 though as 2021 has far more going for it graphically, content and gameplay wise. I like being able to move in more than 8 directions with my players.

But no PES has matched the joy I got from playing PES 5 in that moment in time. It was that good, I didn't even bother picking up PES 6 until a few years ago. I had played a demo of it, but it felt faster, more arcadey.

I doubt I'll ever feel that magic of PES 5 again. I've not experienced it since, so no reason to believe it will happen again. I'm also a lot older now, so don't expect to and also don't have the time to play PES all evenings and weekends like I used to.

I'm being very general in this statement as I'm not glued to forums on a daily basis and not been a member of this one for very long compared to others, but I get the impression even in its pre eFootball form, no one has been happy with PES overall since the PS2 days. Konami could just release a PES 2022 as we had originally expected, but I assume it would have just had the same level of criticism aimed at it as before. Maybe it's for the best they're trying something different now.

I don't know the reasoning why it's so bare bones at launch after 2-3 years of development, but that's not an area I have any expertise in. I'd assume Covid has had a big part to play in it and I've experienced PES being released later in the year, so I'd much rather have this demo to play on 30th September than nothing at all. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays.

And lastly, apologies to anyone who was offended by my original post last night. I know it's more than just the name change in the games current form, but that could end up being the only major difference IF all the old modes, tactics and controller inputs we know and love do return. I get people are concerned it will be watered down to accommodate mobile gamers, I am too, but mobile gaming has apparently come a long way since Flappy Bird. At least I hope so anyway!

 

[Chilleverest]

I think efootball should definitely get a leeway considering its a f2p game. Its not the same Pro evo we loved and held dear, anymore.
Most importantly, its the only free game on the market that somewhat resembles football (except those unreleased new titles). People might say its not ok to accept mediocrity, how can you even like what you see ? Well, i did my fare share of rebellion, i took it to the twitter and surveys, tagged Bhatti, tagged Asim, took it to other forums, tweeted official PES, gave in to the hype, bought the game, regretted and after all that, if it all comes down to f2p efootball, i'll happily take it, because im tired Robbie and i'm getting old. At least, i give credit to efootball for not making me spend another dime on the other paid trash that is FIFA 21 UT (which should have been free as well from what ive seen).

If this efootball picks up then good, if not, then eh ! you move on, you live, you learn and go back to we9le.

 

[etb10dmk]

It's funny how by giving the game a chance, I'm accused of blind devotion by some. If the game is absolute garbage, I won't play it. Like PES 2016 for example. That had multiple things wrong with it, right up until the end of its life.

eFootball may be absolutely dire and relatively unplayable on release. If that's the case I'll be patient and return to it again after any substantial updates. Maybe it'll never have the magic of old PES. Who knows. But I want it to succeed and will happily give feedback to see the game evolve. I'm saying evolve from its starting eFootball state. Of course it's devolved so far from the PES games. We only have 9 teams at launch and only two modes! But eFootball will evolve.

I'm only really interested in offline coop playing a World Cup and Master League. If I can't eventually do these, I'll be pissed off too. I expect them to come back, but seeing is believing. As I said though, I'll pass judgement when they're either confirmed as coming back or confirmed as being scrapped.

Sorry if my stance on this goes completely against how you're approaching this traditional period of the PES/eFootball series. I'm just prepared to give this game a chance over the long term.

Your comment wasn't about giving the game a chance, it had some level of bias in it towards eFootball, where you just reflected the only parts you blindly wanna see as positives excluding the hideous ones pointed by many of us... The disappointment about this game is not related just because the name will change, but expanded way way deeper by miles in another parts vía false marketing/direction, striped/barebone content or territories that are shady and predatory. It's not just about the gameplay/animations or graphics that are good or bad, it's about the overall product on how was presented and leaked, it's an insult to the almost entire community and to what this franchise was in the past.

There are podcasts, lots of videos, and forums where mostly all those parts are elaborated and explained why this game will be a flop in many aspects, and all this analyzed by people that was dedicating 25 years with passion to this entire franchise. Even Adam Bhatti who wants to introduce his sharp kicks in later updates, recognized that has a new type of audience (tik-tokers from the block that loves to ruin credit cards)... and the game will be just that...

 

[Airbag]

Toxic positivity is as bad as toxic negativity and this place is full of the former. Fanboys saying this abomination looks good. It literally looks like pes2018, the pitches look horrible and the gameplay looks basic and its been gutted to make sure people on f'ing mobile phones can join in. What konami have done is shocking and people on here still kiss their feet. We were promised two years of dev for a next gen title and that was a LIE. They made a cross platform horror show instead. The "next gen" version has zooming in on a camera, something only associated with mobile games until now and people want to ignore it.

Unforgiveable from Konami and utterly embarrassing from some on here.

 

[hitmanuk]

I've been playing this series every year since ISS Pro on PS1, so have plenty of experience too. PES 5 for me and still is the pinnacle. I wouldn't play it over PES 2021 though as 2021 has far more going for it graphically, content and gameplay wise. I like being able to move in more than 8 directions with my players.

But no PES has matched the joy I got from playing PES 5 in that moment in time. It was that good, I didn't even bother picking up PES 6 until a few years ago. I had played a demo of it, but it felt faster, more arcadey.

I doubt I'll ever feel that magic of PES 5 again. I've not experienced it since, so no reason to believe it will happen again. I'm also a lot older now, so don't expect to and also don't have the time to play PES all evenings and weekends like I used to.

I'm being very general in this statement as I'm not glued to forums on a daily basis and not been a member of this one for very long compared to others, but I get the impression even in its pre eFootball form, no one has been happy with PES overall since the PS2 days. Konami could just release a PES 2022 as we had originally expected, but I assume it would have just had the same level of criticism aimed at it as before. Maybe it's for the best they're trying something different now.

I don't know the reasoning why it's so bare bones at launch after 2-3 years of development, but that's not an area I have any expertise in. I'd assume Covid has had a big part to play in it and I've experienced PES being released later in the year, so I'd much rather have this demo to play on 30th September than nothing at all. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays.

And lastly, apologies to anyone who was offended by my original post last night. I know it's more than just the name change in the games current form, but that could end up being the only major difference IF all the old modes, tactics and controller inputs we know and love do return. I get people are concerned it will be watered down to accommodate mobile gamers, I am too, but mobile gaming has apparently come a long way since Flappy Bird. At least I hope so anyway!

I think the main difference with older PES games was the stats and how much they mattered , you felt it if a good player was out or if you signed a good player . Now stats don't really matter to cater for online I guess and scripting is brought in. I'd much prefer a ML with ML default squad where stats mattered. And you won and lost on team ability

 

[Joga]

I've been playing this series every year since ISS Pro on PS1, so have plenty of experience too. PES 5 for me and still is the pinnacle. I wouldn't play it over PES 2021 though as 2021 has far more going for it graphically, content and gameplay wise. I like being able to move in more than 8 directions with my players.

But no PES has matched the joy I got from playing PES 5 in that moment in time. It was that good, I didn't even bother picking up PES 6 until a few years ago. I had played a demo of it, but it felt faster, more arcadey.

I doubt I'll ever feel that magic of PES 5 again. I've not experienced it since, so no reason to believe it will happen again. I'm also a lot older now, so don't expect to and also don't have the time to play PES all evenings and weekends like I used to.

I'm being very general in this statement as I'm not glued to forums on a daily basis and not been a member of this one for very long compared to others, but I get the impression even in its pre eFootball form, no one has been happy with PES overall since the PS2 days. Konami could just release a PES 2022 as we had originally expected, but I assume it would have just had the same level of criticism aimed at it as before. Maybe it's for the best they're trying something different now.

I don't know the reasoning why it's so bare bones at launch after 2-3 years of development, but that's not an area I have any expertise in. I'd assume Covid has had a big part to play in it and I've experienced PES being released later in the year, so I'd much rather have this demo to play on 30th September than nothing at all. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays.

And lastly, apologies to anyone who was offended by my original post last night. I know it's more than just the name change in the games current form, but that could end up being the only major difference IF all the old modes, tactics and controller inputs we know and love do return. I get people are concerned it will be watered down to accommodate mobile gamers, I am too, but mobile gaming has apparently come a long way since Flappy Bird. At least I hope so anyway!

Cheers to ya mate, we all want the same thing essentially. A good football game. If we dont get it, trust me I have plenty of games backlogged to play.
This eFootball farce is just part of a much bigger problem in gaming itself. Games are getting lower in quality but companies are getting richer. I have seen too many good things die to greed.

If you want to wait patiently & see what happens. No problem. They WILL give you the wosrt product possible. Because people now worship money. Get rich or die trying n all that shyt.
But in my opinion, on a public forum, I should be able to say how dumb 22 players stuttering & sliding around the "pitch" looks. I will say it.
Twitter, Reddit & Facebook are now just a sea of salt. People have turned on each other. Calling each other hater's & "your just mad at life bro". Ok bro I'm so mad I'm expressing my thoughts on something. People have to get out of the echo chamber & just think for themselves. But most importantly have respect for others opinion.

 

[maurysamp]

 

[Superhoop]

Your comment wasn't about giving the game a chance, it had some level of bias in it towards eFootball, where you just reflected the only parts you blindly wanna see as positives excluding the hideous ones pointed by many of us... The disappointment about this game it's not related just because the name will change, but expanded way way deeper by miles in another parts vía false marketing/direction, striped/barebone content or territories that are shady and predatory. It's not just about the gameplay/animations or graphics that are good or bad, it's about the overall product on how was presented and leaked, it's an insult to the almost entire community and to what this franchise was in the past.

There are podcasts, lots of videos, and forums where mostly all those parts are elaborated and explained why this game will be a flop in many aspects, and all this analyzed by people that was dedicating 25 years with passion to this entire franchise. Even Adam Bhatti who wants to introduce his sharp kicks in later updates, recognized that has a new type of audience (tik-tokers from the block that loves to ruin credit cards)... and the game will be just that...

To confirm, I'm very much just giving the game a chance. No bias, just open minded and will form my own opinion rather than let others form one for me. If the demo is no better than the beta, then I won't be playing it for very long until the next update, then I'll give that a go. Maybe I'll never enjoy eFootball. Who knows.

As others have said though, one thing eFootball won't be able to recreate is the magic of release day again and the excitement of "will Shopto deliver it 2 days early..."

 

[staffan]

It’s quite incredible how after all of these years of bad games, broken promises and Master League being an afterthought that Konami still have generic fanboys worshipping their every move regardless of context.

I’ve never understood an individual’s need to blindly support a giant company which essentially doesn’t give a shit about any of us.

Yes, and for some reason they still act like their "feedback" has any impact or that the community is part of the development process. Konami doesn't even bother to have a representative collecting feedback for the Japan HQ to throw in the bin any more. I saw Gari Clark, a long time friend of Adam was critical of the leaked footage and he is receiving responses like this:



Imagine being such a corporate lackey that you go out of your way to find negative comments and attack the person just for sharing their thoughts. That is beyond embarassing, and these mindless consumers are exactly the reason game development is going in the direction it is.

 

[Hayes]

Nothing suprising, it's twitter tho, most toxic place on earth than nuclear waste

 

[h3li0]

I waswondering in twitter and just discover that lygaard post was an hint of how many clubs we will get when the game will release


Check the number of shoes

 

[Superhoop]

I think the main difference with older PES games was the stats and how much they mattered , you felt it if a good player was out or if you signed a good player . Now stats don't really matter to cater for online I guess and scripting is brought in. I'd much prefer a ML with ML default squad where stats mattered. And you won and lost on team ability

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. I wouldn't say that individuality you used to get from the stats has completely gone, but perhaps watered down somewhat. That maybe to do with the far greater number of players in the game now though. I guess back in the PS1 and 2 days they could focus more on the individuality of the big stars more and they would really stand out with there over 90s pace or shot power for example. There are still players who do stand out more now though, it's just not so pronounced. I certainly still see and feel the difference when I recruit better players for my master league teams though.