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Isslander said:
Let's say this is true... why wouldn't they put this info out officially? Yeah I know it's Konami but this info would have straight up changed the whole reception of the trailer. If they are working on some fantastic looking next gen version, with the ability to exclude lesser versions when playing online, they don't seem very confident they can pull it off.
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It could be both legit and exaggerated significantly, right?

If you had worked hard on some aspects of the game as a contractor, but then that trailer goes out, it's terrible, it doesn't use the right footage, the comms are awful, the fan reaction is hostile and negative... all of that – then you may well both wanna reply/set the record straight and hype it up. I think we've seen similar tendencies from Adam in the past – not just being a hype merchant because it's his job, but because he genuinely wants people to like PES and be excited about this thing that's personal to him now also in a professional and not just fan capacity.

I think when you work on a team on a project, you can be liable to overstating things quite significantly. So I think that the fact the Reddit guy cites amazing next-gen graphics as possible is not great evidence that he's LARPing. He still could be, of course.

As for why Konami wouldn't use better looking footage if they had it: again, said it a few times here, but Konami truly are that shit. I can 100% believe they would fuck that up. It boggles my mind that people think Konami are competent enough not to make this kind of mistake. They do not know their (western) audience. They think people love to hear about boots, iconic moment players.. they create shockingly bad UI elements and graphical design themes, the whole fucking trailer was just awful (and clearly missing Weedens's good work). They used a voice that sounded like it was from Google Now or Siri, emotionless. The text read was one that had clearly been translated from Japanese and had NO oversight by a natural English speaker to say "Hang on, this phrase isn't quite natural". You even had them refer to Iniesta with "now we're lucky enough to have Iniesta near us" (paraphrase) – i.e. no awareness that you need to present your product to this audience not as something local to Japan but as global.

I could go on. That trailer alone suffices to show (a) what terrible comms Konami has for its European/LatAm fanbase and (b) how they think we're liable to get head over heels excited about the idea of F2P model and cross-play with mobiles. It is horrendously out of touch.
 
staffan said:
It's hard enough just to make a game work across that many devices. In Fortnite for example the mobile version is scaled down graphically in the client, but it has no impact on the gameplay of other users, that would not only be terrible from a design and UX perspective but signfigantly more complex from a development and testing perspective. Just think of how many more permutations you would have to test and how much more room for bugs there would be, versus an interoperable base engine that is tailored to/limited by the lowest common denominator. No-one has said the concept is impossible, just that it's unrealistic, especially given how other major companies have approached cross-play. You'd be drastically increasing complexity for a worse user experience. Why would next-gen users willingly penalise themselves by enabling cross-gen, and if the differences are subtle enough not to matter, well then it doesn't provide much room for next-gen to differentiate itself in the first place.

I agree with what you said about controls, I don't think there is enough info out to conclude anything yet, it's possible even that a controller will be required on mobile for cross-play, or mobile users will just have to accept being at a disadvantage in the same way someone using a controller is at a disadvantage against something with a mouse/keyboard in an FPS.
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Yes (emboldened bit) – I think that's currently the best objection to the idea that they have better quality gameplay available and have found a way to scale it.

I do think there is no precedent for Konami to be the company that would pull this off. But on the other hand, I can imagine them thinking they could pull it off. This could be a scenario where they've bitten off more than they can chew, and they fall very flat on their arse because they actually can't provide this sort of scaleability and keep it relatively free of bugs or even just fun to play.

Perhaps it's conceivable they'll halfway manage it though. In development for 2 years, familiarity with UE going back a bit further with the mobile game, leaning hard into the F2P model of monetisation, changing technologies, needing to find a way to compete with FIFA/FUT... It feels like a desperate last gasp of a dying corpse.
 
janguv said:
Yes (emboldened bit) – I think that's currently the best objection to the idea that they have better quality gameplay available and have found a way to scale it.

I do think there is no precedent for Konami to be the company that would pull this off. But on the other hand, I can imagine them thinking they could pull it off. This could be a scenario where they've bitten off more than they can chew, and they fall very flat on their arse because they actually can't provide this sort of scaleability and keep it relatively free of bugs or even just fun to play.

Perhaps it's conceivable they'll halfway manage it though. In development for 2 years, familiarity with UE going back a bit further with the mobile game, leaning hard into the F2P model of monetisation, changing technologies, needing to find a way to compete with FIFA/FUT... It feels like a desperate last gasp of a dying corpse.
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I think it's inifintely more likely that the Reddit guy was talking out of his arse and that's the only thing he could come up with to explain why the trailer was so bad. Admittedly it's quite a good explanation since it's not impossible, just highly unlikely, and most people aren't going to spot the holes in the concept.

Next-gen cut scenes with middle-ground gameplay capable of running on mobile does make the most sense and that is what everything so far is pointing to. Albeit there is no reason the gameplay footage in the trailer should look that bad visually, in terms of things like lighting from gameplay cam, that could and should be fully next-gen on consoles without impacting cross-play, which is something I don't have a good explanation for.

Edit: one possibility is different teams working on different things. E.g. next-gen/artists have been working on cut scenes, gameplay team still working on cross-play compatible gameplay without putting too much work into next-gen visuals, therefore trailer represents a work in progress and final gameplay looks something closer to the cut-scenes visually on next-gen. It could explain the disparity and would possibly jive with what Adam said about waiting until further down the line to judge it.
 
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janguv said:
This is how I've been thinking of it myself. If it's at all possible, surely it's something like this:
  1. Each device as a type keyed to their client ID (or whatever it would be called)
  2. Two clients then match:
    1. Type A (say, PS5) matches with Type A (say, XSX) -> Launch Activity A
    2. Type A (say, XSX) matches with Type B (say, PS4) -> Launch Activity B
    3. Type A (say, PS5) matches with Type C (say, high-end mobile) -> Launch Activity C
  3. The relevant Activity loads
Now the differences between A-C could be more or less extreme, and not just graphical fidelity/assets. The animation cycles are changed, or it smooths over a reduced total number for any given action. Etc.

Again, I'm not a developer of any description, and maybe this would be insane to pull off, but I'm struggling to see why, from my untutored perspective. Perhaps the gameplay differences would be felt to be too severe, and thus it would be a bad decision to make the user experience gameplay without parity across activities. But that wouldn't be a technical hindrance, just a design/UX hindrance.
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Yeah, doesn't seem completely implausible. At the moment, they already have two essentially completely separate products built on different engines, PES mobile and PES21 for console/PC, so probably 2 separate development teams and streams and the costs that that entails. So they can streamline development by moving to a single engine and creating a version of the game that works on all devices (mobile and all consoles) and build a more advanced version, which has shared core elements of the mobile version, but that exploits next-gen technology. So they're not dynamically scaling the physics, animations or whatever in real-time, but are simply loading completely different versions of certain routines, animations or whatever.

So, theoretically, it would be possible to have no compromises in a next-gen v next-gen match. With regard to controls, because you'd be warned that if you are matched with a mobile player that your match experience will be "scaled to match your opponents device", you would be aware that this means everything from gfx, animation, etc to reduced controls. And even then, the core controls wouldn't be different - passing, shooting, sprinting, tackling, etc would be the same, you'd possibly just be missing a few more advanced controls, but you'd still have plenty to have a game of football with. And if you don't like it, just tick the box to not be matched with cross-gen.
 
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I'm not surprised this has happened tbh, Konami as a company has shit the bed over the last 5-10 years.
 
Zied500 said:
Some Bird told me this. Translate in to English.
https://esportsitalia.com/efootball-le-tre-bufale-che-girano-per-il-web/
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Translated a section of it (using DeepL):
"While the eFootball presentation on 21 July was underway, images began to circulate on the web and on instant messaging apps with the words RIP PES, which is equivalent to "Rest in Peace PES", complete with a grave to signify that the game was dead.

It is clear that these images had been prepared in advance, probably by some usual PES pessimist or FIFA fanatic.

The name of Konami's game has changed several times over the years, but never its spirit. We all know that unlike other football games like FIFA, the Japanese company has always focused on realism and football simulation.

So from Winning Eleven to Pro Evolution Soccer (hence the acronym PES) to eFootball PES to eFootball the substance has never changed. To say that PES is dead is a hoax, at this point it would have been dead already in the previous name changes.

The fact that the images came out during the presentation is clear that there was premeditation.

Among other things, we ourselves had said that it didn't make sense to keep the name eFootball PES because in the word PES there is "soccer" which is historically the wrong term they use only in the USA to define football and distinguish it from American football. Putting "soccer" and "football" in one name would have made no sense.

eFootball is a beautiful, strong name. Just as the term email has become the international standard for email, eSports to define competitive video games, eFootball now represents virtual football.

Fans of Konami's game couldn't ask for better than to have the name eFootball, the PES RIP skit could have been avoided just as well."
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:LOL: :LOL: what the fuck is this shit?!
 
staffan said:
Edit: one possibility is different teams working on different things. E.g. next-gen/artists have been working on cut scenes, gameplay team still working on cross-play compatible gameplay without putting too much work into next-gen visuals, therefore trailer represents a work in progress and final gameplay looks something closer to the cut-scenes visually on next-gen. It could explain the disparity and would possibly jive with what Adam said about waiting until further down the line to judge it.
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I think that's quite plausible. People do report on the fragmentation at Konami. I know Asim mentioned it a bit after leaving, right? How difficult it was to pass on feedback to the people up top, or to manage the community relations but not be told what's going on internally. Might be misremembering, but recall something to that effect. And that's partly what lends some legitimacy to the Reddit bloke, to me. He also reports this really fragmented, secretive structure. It's a half-joke, but it actually reminds me of decentralised or otherwise shadowy organised crime groups :LOL:
normazimuth said:
With regard to controls, because you'd be warned that if you are matched with a mobile player that your match experience will be "scaled to match your opponents device", you would be aware that this means everything from gfx, animation, etc to reduced controls. And even then, the core controls wouldn't be different - passing, shooting, sprinting, tackling, etc would be the same, you'd possibly just be missing a few more advanced controls, but you'd still have plenty to have a game of football with. And if you don't like it, just tick the box to not be matched with cross-gen.
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On controls, I gave my thoughts here. I think it's possible there may well be no dumbing down at all, and the claim that the test used dumbed down controls doesn't quite work out. They were different and incomplete, but also not transferable to a touchscreen experience. I think mobile vs console/PC will always require a controller, myself.
terrafilius said:
thats something the developers at KONAMI dont have

View attachment 112070
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I really appreciate this as someone who is learning German right now! I will pass this image on to others learning with me hahaha.
 
If you think that a free to play, mobile game, that's not even called PES anymore, is the end of PES you're a FIFA fanatic.
If you think that "eFootball is a beautiful, strong name", you're an impartial independent journalist, not affiliated with Konami. At all.

Seems legit.
 
philla said:
Even IF a "scaled gameplay" is the main plan, we all know that KONAMI is the last company on earth to get it right and working at launch.
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Yeah that's my hesitation.

That said, maybe "at launch" is the pivotal term here right?

Now they're using a GaMeS aS a SeRvIcE model, they're freeing themselves of the obligation to give us a complete package at launch. So according to the "road map" (this is among my least favoured words, just behind the use of "content" in "content creator"), mobile-console/pc crossplay is end-of-year.

It may be the only lowest-common denominator scaling-down they have to get working right from the off is just PS5 to PS4 and XSX to Xone. Then they introduce cross-gen play. So in terms of managing that, testing it, fixing bugs, it's easier to do these things at launch/close to launch, and for some months before you introduce the mobile cross-play option.

That's the advantage of the whole live service shtick, though the cynical (and correct) interpretation is that really it allows huge publishers to release incomplete buggy pieces of shit and just promise changes further down the line.
 
Hello, I have a question, I don't know where to post this so I posted it here, I recently got PES 2019, is it good? and what are it's positives and negatives, I've seen some reviews and some gameplay of it on youtube, and it looks positive.

Trying to put my mind off this efootball stuff
 
I am a fan fan since 2000s It is sad to know that news, because the communities made this game great nowadays there are other models of video game business,with micropayments as the other game does, we are the nostalgics that we remember that time, Konami is still destroying games.:BORED:
 
bazzigoplay297 said:
Some eSport player defending Konami until the end.
Literally saying "RIP PES" is used by usual negative and annoying PES fans and FIFA Players who made the images BEFORE seeing the trailer

What a clown
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I'm ashamed of just speaking Italian like him.

He's saying that the whole "RIP PES" thing was staged and premeditated because "no way they could have the memes already at hand while Konami were still making the announcement, they must have been prepared beforehand in order to ruin Konami's announcement on purpose".
 
*aLe said:
I'm ashamed of just speaking Italian like him.

He's saying that the whole "RIP PES" thing was staged and premeditated because "no way they could have the memes already at hand while Konami were still making the announcement, they must have been prepared beforehand in order to ruin Konami's announcement on purpose".
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Yeah... right.
Because it takes days to create a meme...
 
To the people who are positive/hopeful - where is it coming from? What has Konami done in the last decade that gives you hope? They've disappointed year after year. Year after year we've been saying "let's wait and see" to then ultimately be disappointed again. They've done nothing to warrant this positivity you're giving them. I say this with absolutely no intention of being offensive, it's just downright naive to expect anything good from Konami at this point. They've killed off their other big gaming franchises too, what makes you think they're still able to make good games? I'm genuinely wondering why some people here are positive. For me, enough is enough. They're not getting a single cent from me. I won't play this efootball bs even if they pay me lol. I'd rather switch to FIFA. At least they improve their career mode. Master League has stagnated and remains unchanged for like what? 5 years now? Possibly more.
 
heX_ said:
To the people who are positive/hopeful - where is it coming from? What has Konami done in the last decade that gives you hope? They've disappointed year after year. Year after year we've been saying "let's wait and see" to then ultimately be disappointed again. They've done nothing to warrant this positivity you're giving them. I say this with absolutely no intention of being offensive, it's just downright naive to expect anything good from Konami at this point. They've killed off their other big gaming franchises too, what makes you think they're still able to make good games? I'm genuinely wondering why some people here are positive. For me, enough is enough. They're not getting a single cent from me. I won't play this efootball bs even if they pay me lol. I'd rather switch to FIFA. At least they improve their career mode. Master League has stagnated and remains unchanged for like what? 5 years now? Possibly more.
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I don't know where I'd place myself right now. I don't know if I'd fit into the 'Positive category'.
What I do know is I've been trying to look at it from a more positive perspective for the past 48hrs, trying to make sense of this huge decision. Trying to understand what their logic is. I can't just think they want to ruin the game. There must be something they thought would entice PES' huge fanbase once they try the game and all the content they plan to release little by little.

As much as we think Konami are idiots, I think we just need to wait and see what they are cooking up.
There's no point in jumping into conclusions with the very little information we have and the very little footage we've seen.

If everything we are theorizing about becomes a reality once we try everything by ourselves, there'll be plenty time to panic and trash the company and the game for years and years to come. Why start now?.
 
Chuny said:
I don't know where I'd place myself right now. I don't know if I'd fit into the 'Positive category'.
What I do know is I've been trying to look at it from a more positive perspective for the past 48hrs, trying to make sense of this huge decision. Trying to understand what their logic is. I can't just think they want to ruin the game. There must be something they thought would entice PES' huge fanbase once they try the game and all the content they plan to release little by little.

As much as we think Konami are idiots, I think we just need to wait and see what they are cooking up.
There's no point in jumping into conclusions with the very little information we have and the very little footage we've seen.

If everything we are theorizing about becomes a reality once we try everything by ourselves, there'll be plenty time to panic and trash the company and the game for years and years to come. Why start now?.
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I can understand that, but this decision won't ruin the game. It's very obvious why they did it. We are only a small part of the fanbase. It'll ruin it only for us. Going f2p will net them a lot more money and players. That's the reason. Money. Look at the trailer, it's not massively disliked. The backlash is coming only from fans like us. They have no reason to actually spend money making the game better for us, we'll only play master league and won't spend money on coins. Why else would they make anything other than online a DLC? And why would they spend any additional money on making the master league DLC actually good? How many people will pay for it? A lot less than the f2p players.
 
So mobile players will all keep their IMs - confirmed. What happens to other platforms? How will they prevent super power creep when everyone already has godlike players?!
 
heX_ said:
I can understand that, but this decision won't ruin the game. It's very obvious why they did it. We are only a small part of the fanbase. It'll ruin it only for us. Going f2p will net them a lot more money and players. That's the reason. Money. Look at the trailer, it's not massively disliked. The backlash is coming only from fans like us. They have no reason to actually spend money making the game better for us, we'll only play master league and won't spend money on coins. Why else would they make anything other than online a DLC? And why would they spend any additional money on making the master league DLC actually good? How many people will pay for it? A lot less than the f2p players.
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These are my most positive ideas about the whole thing in case you want to read them:

https://evoweb.uk/threads/efootball...pes-come-pay-your-respects.83625/post-3729669
https://evoweb.uk/threads/efootball...pes-come-pay-your-respects.83625/post-3729672
 
terrafilius said:
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Guys I work for Konami as a Data Collector for the Live Updates each week I know a few people quite high up , If that person did work for Konami his contract would be terminated , Your in no way allowed to clarify or dismiss information like that as it breaks your contract and if you don't believe me I'll post the paragraph from MY contract confirming this. Some people like to act as if they know everything and put out misinformation , So to that post clarifying and dismissing information , Pay no attention.
 
AuthenticSportsSimulation said:
Guys I work for Konami as a Data Collector for the Live Updates each week I know a few people quite high up , If that person did work for Konami his contract would be terminated , Your in no way allowed to clarify or dismiss information like that as it breaks your contract and if you don't believe me I'll post the paragraph from MY contract confirming this. Some people like to act as if they know everything and put out misinformation , So to that post clarifying and dismissing information , Pay no attention.
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Not if they can't identify him.:SHHH:
 
Chuny said:
These are my most positive ideas about the whole thing in case you want to read them:

https://evoweb.uk/threads/efootball...pes-come-pay-your-respects.83625/post-3729669
https://evoweb.uk/threads/efootball...pes-come-pay-your-respects.83625/post-3729672
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I saw them. But again, why? What makes you think they'll do that? Konami haven't indicated in any way in the last decade at least, that they care about the master league. What happened to the "3 year plan"? Absolutely nothing. We got some cutscenes and that's pretty much it. I see no reason for Konami to spend any more money on improving ML. And unless a miracle happens, we'll get the same ML we had before but this time they'll sell it separately for a lower cost. Do you think they'd stay this silent about it if they were making changes and improvements on it? Why wouldn't they advertise that? And as the other poster said, the low sales of it will only let them justify them in killing off ML completely. From their POV, there's no money to be made from it.
 
heX_ said:
I saw them. But again, why? What makes you think they'll do that? Konami haven't indicated in any way in the last decade at least, that they care about the master league. What happened to the "3 year plan"? Absolutely nothing. We got some cutscenes and that's pretty much it. I see no reason for Konami to spend any more money on improving ML. And unless a miracle happens, we'll get the same ML we had before but this time they'll sell it separately for a lower cost. Do you think they'd stay this silent about it if they were making changes and improvements on it? Why wouldn't they advertise that? And as the other poster said, the low sales of it will only let them justify them in killing off ML completely. From their POV, there's no money to be made from it.
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Like I said, I'm trying to see it their way-
There must be some logic behind all of this, that may not be logical to us - yet.

And yes, I know what you're going to say: Money.

Probably, yeah. But to make money you need to sell your product. And to sell your product, people need to like it.
Even more so if this will be a free-to-play game. People need to like it a lot more to invest in microtransactions and purchasing DLCs.
 
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