i dont think so , and im sure there will be a option to not have cross play
eFootball (All Platforms)
- Thread starter PRO_TOO
- Start date
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
Yup, that's the main question that we want answered. People who prefer PES have done so nearly always because of the gameplay. If Konami can somehow make the gameplay scalable, then hats off to them but I can't help but feel there will be fundamental compromises.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, what happens with controls? Do they vary depending on whether you're playing against mobile or next-gen console, so you need to get used to some controls being available against a next-gen user but then not available against a mobile user?
Do the physics calculations and animations vary to take advantage of next-gen but are somehow reduced or simplified when playing against a mobile user?
- Staff
- #5,133
Exactly! And do you believe they gonna go into this level of depth while developing Free2Play game?
will they fuck!
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
"Graphics" yes, but animations are part of gameplay as much as they are part of what you would call "Graphics". You can't have a single action (For example turning 45 degrees) be 10 animation frames on console and 5 animation frames on mobile otherwise the gameplay doesn't make sense, it's like playing a different game with different speed/timings. But cutscenes (not gameplay) can be of different quality. Player models can look different as well, I guess. (Better textures, level of detail, etc). But in-game animations, (obviously I'm not sure), I don't think so.
Danny Henry
The King is dead.
- 16 September 2013
I'm no programer but all this scalable graphics, animations and physics sounds made up to me. Not to mention teammates AI.
Konami barely develop a single polished game in years.
Konami barely develop a single polished game in years.
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- Staff
- #5,136
Im only going by what EA announced and they did say that next gen will have more complex animations (....at least I think they did....)
So suppose you switch off cross play and you get paired only with next gen - animations could, potentially, be different.
As for controls - i dont think so. Coz this requires creating a completely branched out game.
Ps. But even with the animations on next gen - does it mean that ps4 users will be playing mobile version? Coz thats what it looks like. And in this case - LOL.
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
"If you are playing the PlayStation 5 version of FIFA 22, you will only be able to match up with and play against other players who are playing the PlayStation 5 version".
So yeah, different animations and there's no crossplay between PS5 and PS4.
If efootball has mobile - ps5 crossplay, animations, physics (gameplay) is strictly what mobile can do, as there's no way they can differ and still support crossplay.
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Spursfan07
International
- 10 February 2019
I think we have, I think all the scenes where you see Juventus and Manchester United players are from next gen graphics
Notice in the trailer every player has a certain color of jersey, I think that represents each a gaming device:
Rashford => Steam, so PC footage
Iniesta=> Xbox One (old gen)
And so on...
Only a thought though, could be wrong
- Staff
- #5,141
Yeah, its horrible. Look at how Konami.is trying to do some damage control - there is no mention of more advanced gameplay, or controls. Only graphics.
"It will look much better, we promise"
Yeah, we know it will look much better. It has to, if you want anyone to play it. How will it play tho?
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
I can see teammate AI being dumbed down across the board to mobile level for online play, so that's what you get whether you're playing mobile v mobile or PS5 v PS5. The beta demo certainly had awful teammate AI and I think we're becoming resigned to the move towards dumb teammate AI in online play to cater for the "skill gap".
However, that dumbed-down level of AI will not be acceptable for a £paid-for offline Master League DLC, so would they effectively have a completely separate teammate AI model for offline play? After all, who's going to want to pay to play a ML career where you spend hours carefully building a team and then on the pitch their stats matter not a single fuck because they just stand around and watch.
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
Even without a definitive answer available, I think all similar questions can and should be easily answered with a simple "Lads, It's Konami".
I havent watched the trailer yet, I almost dont want to, which reveals it's own story. But some of the screenshots of players have looked actually quite good, probably the ones you're referring to expect.
All a little heartbreaking.
There are times when pes 21 lite looks so, so good. For instance ajax at home, day sunny. But the gameplay is so, so rigid and limited that after a minute, I just get bored and switch off.
But then imagine pes 21 with the beta gameplay. Not worth thinking about.
Always amazing, and a little depressing, how quickly great graphics become irrelevant without gameplay. It really is about that gosh-darn gameplay. Which is the one thing virtually no developer seems interested in these days.
normazimuth
League 1
- 18 May 2013
Just thinking - not sure if this has already been discussed - but how big is the existing PES mobile version. I wonder if when you get the new eFootball game on PS5, could you actually be downloading effectively 2 (or more) games in 1 ie. both the mobile match engine and the next-gen match engine, all in one package?
So when you go online and start a match v a mobile user, the mobile version of the match engine is launched whereas when you start a match v another PS5 user, the next-gen match engine is launched. So both versions of the match engine are built from the same core but the next-gen version is much more fully fleshed out (in terms of physics, animations, gfx, even controls). I can just about see that being a plausible way to make it work.
So when you go online and start a match v a mobile user, the mobile version of the match engine is launched whereas when you start a match v another PS5 user, the next-gen match engine is launched. So both versions of the match engine are built from the same core but the next-gen version is much more fully fleshed out (in terms of physics, animations, gfx, even controls). I can just about see that being a plausible way to make it work.
Shikashi
League 1
- 6 November 2009
Whatever they do with graphics is irrelevant for the state of PES as a whole. You're building a crossplatform game between console and mobile. The controls and gameplay will be tailored for that, it won't be more realistic or sim-based, it will instead be more simplified and with less depth because, if you're trying to reach the widest audience possible, you're not gonna build a game expecting mobile users to get a controller hooked up to their phones.
This is why we see them moving towards a FIFA control scheme and FIFA trying to move in the opposite direction.
This is why we see them moving towards a FIFA control scheme and FIFA trying to move in the opposite direction.
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
Technically possible but I think others have already mentioned that it's a bit ridiculous playing one game with certain controls, animations, physics and everything one minute, and then 5 minutes later get completely different gameplay just because you matched with someone on a different platform.
They have to build a real next gen version and give up crossplay, you can't have both. They obviously want crossplay for the myclub $$$$.
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DuduBR9
Champions League
- 25 July 2010
I think no one is making the necessary effort to interpret that Last image of the trailer.
From what I understand there's an online mode against mobile and a different online mode against other platforms.
PESV
Championship
- 28 April 2002
True that. Or in the words of Cruijff "every disadvantage has an advantage". If this means more of the community will gather around the old gems then that is a win also. Ill be looking forward to installing WE9LE on PC as a coping mechanism.
As crazy as it initially sounds, that would actually make more sense then dumbing everything down for mobile. What would be the point in treating mobile as equal instead of a gimmick if you are aiming at e-sports?
*Maybe* you can do a console first approach and thus make sure everything you can do on console, you can also do on mobile by making smart use of the touchscreen. Yet, you can never let them battle it out against each-other in some online competitive league because of the huge differences in controls and screen size and all the balancing issues that come with it.
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It seems clear to me that the only thing which can differ during cross play are the loaded assets (e.g. models).
Animations, AI, controls, etc, would all have to be at the lowest common denominator (i.e. the mobile the version).
I suppose it's possible that these are enhanced when playing offline or when playing against non-mobile users, but that'd almost certainly heavily discourage people from seeking out cross play.
Did the network test/demo have complex control support (e.g. right stick functionality)?
Animations, AI, controls, etc, would all have to be at the lowest common denominator (i.e. the mobile the version).
I suppose it's possible that these are enhanced when playing offline or when playing against non-mobile users, but that'd almost certainly heavily discourage people from seeking out cross play.
Did the network test/demo have complex control support (e.g. right stick functionality)?
Yeah, I mean we've already seen the approach they are taking with NFG, they showed their hand early and so I don't know why people are performing mental gymnastics or believing this obvious bullshitter on Reddit, there is no way in a million years this team is capable of producing that kind of scaling tech, not to mention how insane it would be to have a completely different gameplay experience and control set from one match to the next. If people want to accept false consolation it's up to them but you're only prolonging your misery.
Also that guy on Reddit said the next drop is on the 25th of August which is also the first day of Gamescom, you'd think you would mention that instead of just giving the date, I assume he didn't know it's Gamescom or he did know and was using it to base his guess off.
I'm not really sure I buy that PES will remain "console-first".
Mobile is 75% of Konami's revenue, having grown 33% YoY.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...drives-konami-full-year-revenues-to-usd2-48bn
Mobile games are cheaper to develop and generate more revenue. Most importantly, FIFA doesn't have a monopoly (or even a strong presence?) in mobile.
Perhaps Konami will continue to provide consoles and PCs with mobile ports for the foreseeable future, but I'm not convinced this will last long, with mobile-first eventually transitioning into mobile-only.
I guess I better start looking for realistic FIFA sliders.
Mobile is 75% of Konami's revenue, having grown 33% YoY.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...drives-konami-full-year-revenues-to-usd2-48bn
Mobile games are cheaper to develop and generate more revenue. Most importantly, FIFA doesn't have a monopoly (or even a strong presence?) in mobile.
Perhaps Konami will continue to provide consoles and PCs with mobile ports for the foreseeable future, but I'm not convinced this will last long, with mobile-first eventually transitioning into mobile-only.
I guess I better start looking for realistic FIFA sliders.
janguv
Premier League
- 2 November 2016
This is how I've been thinking of it myself. If it's at all possible, surely it's something like this:
- Each device as a type keyed to their client ID (or whatever it would be called)
- Two clients then match:
- Type A (say, PS5) matches with Type A (say, XSX) -> Launch Activity A
- Type A (say, XSX) matches with Type B (say, PS4) -> Launch Activity B
- Type A (say, PS5) matches with Type C (say, high-end mobile) -> Launch Activity C
- The relevant Activity loads
Again, I'm not a developer of any description, and maybe this would be insane to pull off, but I'm struggling to see why, from my untutored perspective. Perhaps the gameplay differences would be felt to be too severe, and thus it would be a bad decision to make the user experience gameplay without parity across activities. But that wouldn't be a technical hindrance, just a design/UX hindrance.
So a few days on now, does anyone actually believe that they just *forgot* to include any mention in their roadmap graphics of Master League? Now we are all painfully aware of how incompetent Konami's PR is but this just stinks to me, stinks of there never was going to be any offline stuff... until the backlash started and suddenly 'oh oh wait but ML is coming as DLC later!' but (there's always a but with Konami) 'errr it's not coming till some mystery date in 2022 for reasons..'
Hmmm call me cynical but I smell BS.
Hmmm call me cynical but I smell BS.
They won't require PS Plus for online play. F2P is all about getting players in the door and then get the money from them once they are inside.
janguv
Premier League
- 2 November 2016
My Part 2 thoughts on all this regard controls.
I have seen countless posts here, on Twitter, on Reddit, on another forum, all assume that mobile cross play means reduced control scheme. We have two good reasons to think that:
- The current mobile game, and others similar, with their dumbed down touchscreen control set
- The open test, with its reduced control options
The first thing is that the roadmap itself, and the trailer, at no point suggested mobile cross-play involved touchscreen controls. I do think the base game on mobile will still be touchscreen compatible – a must in this day and age – but all signs point towards controller only for cross-play with consoles. Now, that may or may not be a wise decision in terms of trying to make this new experience where anyone can play anyone (how many people have mobile controllers, or would get some, or would not rather use a console/PC at that point?). But wisdom isn't something Konami have in spades.
The second thing is that though the performance test lacked some controls, it still had several other legacy controls. E.g., Super Cancel was both observable in-play when triggered and in the menu. As were the trick controls. As were height modifiers on crosses. Etc. Why would you remove second-man press or triggering player runs on account of it not being scaleable to mobile, but then also include Super Cancel, the full array of tricks, and height modifiers on crosses (just to name a few things)?
So: why were the controls incomplete in that test? Who the fuck knows, frankly. But I really don't think the answer is: because it has to be compatible with mobile. It is already incompatible with mobile touchscreen input. With a controller, a mobile user can do more or less anything a console user can do, at least in terms of input (not thinking about the mobile processing power and what it can compute/process/output).
In short, I don't think we can conclude too much about controls yet. It's feasible there will be changes to the control scheme in general (finesse tied to sensitive input on the LS; defending made "tactical"). But there's not much more to say.
Edit: couple of typos!
Let's say this is true... why wouldn't they put this info out officially? Yeah I know it's Konami but this info would have straight up changed the whole reception of the trailer. If they are working on some fantastic looking next gen version, with the ability to exclude lesser versions when playing online, they don't seem very confident they can pull it off.
It's hard enough just to make a game work across that many devices. In Fortnite for example the mobile version is scaled down graphically in the client, but it has no impact on the gameplay of other users, that would not only be terrible from a design and UX perspective but signifigantly more complex from a development and testing perspective. Just think of how many more permutations you would have to test and how much more room for bugs there would be, versus an interoperable base engine that is tailored to/limited by the lowest common denominator. No-one has said the concept is impossible, just that it's unrealistic, especially given how other major companies have approached cross-play. You'd be drastically increasing complexity for a worse user experience. Why would next-gen users willingly penalise themselves by enabling cross-gen, and if the differences are subtle enough not to matter, well then it doesn't provide much room for next-gen to differentiate itself in the first place.
I agree with what you said about controls, I don't think there is enough info out to conclude anything yet, it's possible even that a controller will be required on mobile for cross-play, or mobile users will just have to accept being at a disadvantage in the same way someone using a controller is at a disadvantage against someone with a mouse/keyboard in an FPS.