EA SPORTS FC 25

Series X beta still doesn't work for me. Doesn't seem like I'm missing a lot anyway, just another month until I spend an entire year cursing my purchase once again.
 
Bit of an off topic, but not really.

This is a post Id like every football game developer to read, especially EA people, coz they are the ones who went completely overboard with turning all the players on the pitch into traffic cones in the name of "skill gap".

Keep in mind - this discussion had nothing to do with EAFC. We were talking about Pes17 AI vs Pes21 AI. But it's so relevant here, coz (especially) EA has completely lost their way post FIFA16.

https://evoweb.uk/threads/pes-2017-playstation-xbox-discussion-thread.76425/post-4087049

You cannot create good football game without AI. Both offline AND online.
It's a team sport. Part of the "skill gap" is to manage your AI team mates containing, runs and set them up for good passes. Everything has to be fluid.
Otherwise you have table soccer, where the only two active are the stickman who has the ball, and stickman who is trying to block it.

Unless, obviously, stickman football is a conscious decision and you are happy to listen to FUT players vision of the game.
But then don't get upset when people call your game a joke, or an insult to football fans.
 
This time last year, the FC24 thread had 32 pages - almost double the number of this thread. Doesn't feel like there's much hype this year. (Was hoping for some more beta thoughts, especially on "sim mode".) :(
 
Chris Davies said:
This time last year, the FC24 thread had 32 pages - almost double the number of this thread. Doesn't feel like there's much hype this year. (Was hoping for some more beta thoughts, especially on "sim mode".) :(
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Best thing is to wait for launch time and try the trial version on EA Play. In my experience, I understand it better hands-on, than when people talk about it or show it
 
Chris Davies said:
This time last year, the FC24 thread had 32 pages - almost double the number of this thread. Doesn't feel like there's much hype this year. (Was hoping for some more beta thoughts, especially on "sim mode".) :(
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I think there are a couple of reasons for this.

- This year EA have somehow released a lot of keys around 50% of them don't work or you get provided the wrong modes. EA don't seem to care or not fixing the issue
- The beta is extremely buggy (i get a lot of crashes) and EA haven't fixed any of them during the beta
- The game user numbers have been declining year on year
- Theres not much to say beyond what I've and others have shared. It seems good now but EA have a tendency to screw it all up by release
- The "sim mode" is a slider set and i find slider sets really screw up the AI of the game. I also dislike ultra slow gameplay that many others here do. So I didn't like it. So I didn't share the experience with it

We are waiting for the Early Access release to really say what we have.
 
Chris Davies said:
This time last year, the FC24 thread had 32 pages - almost double the number of this thread. Doesn't feel like there's much hype this year. (Was hoping for some more beta thoughts, especially on "sim mode".) :(
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I think it's more of a reflection on the position of football games in general now, this is the only mainline iterative game in town now (eFootball rarely gets updates that are worth discussing) and FC is currently more of the same save the incremental updates to gameplay per year but there isn't much to analyse based on not very helpful footage and little feedback from the beta.
 
Every year they say "don't judge it until it's in your hands" but even from the beta footage it looked fast as fuck. They could patch this to the point you can start a match, blink and then the full time whistle blows and it would still be too slow for FUT players.
 
I am willing to lower my standards. If they have Brazil, and the graphics look good and not cartoonish like fc24, and has match intro without stuttering like ass, I might buy the game, maybe.
 
I will sound like a boomer,but new generation kids are such a cancer for football's videogames and whole videogames industry...
The industy offers what people ask..
 
goalgerd said:
They've grown up in a games industry made to be like that, so you can't blame them if they know no different.
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Yeah, I swear if they had an alternative they'd play it. eFootball lives on (and makes Konami bags of money) even though it's a shell of a game in terms of content.

A lot of us here grew up in the time of FIFA vs PES - and will remember that PES outsold FIFA for a long time, because it was the better (i.e. more realistic, grounded, dynamic, challenging, closer-to-football) game that was brilliant with mates and brilliant against the AI.

We had that alternative, kids today don't. We had two games with a different ethos. Now there's FUT, and games that desperately want to clone FUT. Including eFootball.

I swear that the biggest problem we have is what EA thinks their players want (although, admittedly, I think there's also the issue of FUT players not really understanding what they want - crying out for no "AI defending" without realising what that's doing to the gameplay); but give them a more grounded, thought-provoking game to play and I honestly think they'd feel so rewarded for every win that it'd feel like a revolution compared to what they play now.
 
Chris Davies said:
This is an interesting subject to me - because the new sliders worry me a bit.

They feel like a very basic workaround to a much deeper problem - which is demonstrated by the way that higher difficulty AI hammers exploits (ping-pong tiki-taka tap-ins).

The AI doesn't utilise players based on their attributes to get the result - because it doesn't have to. Attributes don't prevent you from doing the actions that get goals. So, the AI simply stops crossing (because they rarely work) and sets up tap-ins instead (which are easy to create due to how static defenders are, and how accurate all players' passing is, and guarantees goals).

So now we have an "AI crossing" slider - but is forcing the AI to create worse chances and essentially handicapping it, seriously the solution to this problem? Rather than creating gameplay where crosses are actually valuable, as they are in real life, and tap-ins much much harder to pull off with every single team?

(This applies to much more - e.g. the AI never genuinely fouls because the engine isn't making it mistime attempts to get the ball, it simply brute-forces two-footed-lunges that aren't attempts to win the ball. The new "aggression" slider to force more deliberate fouls isn't fixing the game's defender/attacker balancing issue - i.e. the two rarely meet.)

I worry that, realistically, the view is that most people don't want to have to think about the player they're controlling. So I feel like this will never change.
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I have also thought about it and I very much agree. Anything we do to make the CPU AI have more variety essentially weakens the AI. You need core fixes in positioning from gameplay mods to balance out the CPU AI attempting different attacking styles. That's why sliders for me never really fixed the deeper issue back then and it won't fix it now. You need way more in-depth control to balance it out.
 
Emroth said:
Bit of an off topic, but not really.

This is a post Id like every football game developer to read, especially EA people, coz they are the ones who went completely overboard with turning all the players on the pitch into traffic cones in the name of "skill gap".

Keep in mind - this discussion had nothing to do with EAFC. We were talking about Pes17 AI vs Pes21 AI. But it's so relevant here, coz (especially) EA has completely lost their way post FIFA16.

https://evoweb.uk/threads/pes-2017-playstation-xbox-discussion-thread.76425/post-4087049

You cannot create good football game without AI. Both offline AND online.
It's a team sport. Part of the "skill gap" is to manage your AI team mates containing, runs and set them up for good passes. Everything has to be fluid.
Otherwise you have table soccer, where the only two active are the stickman who has the ball, and stickman who is trying to block it.

Unless, obviously, stickman football is a conscious decision and you are happy to listen to FUT players vision of the game.
But then don't get upset when people call your game a joke, or an insult to football fans.
Click to expand...

It's also funny that the people that hates on AI defending actually likes the older footie games where the AI was better at positioning and behavior. And since the involvement of hypermotion and 1v1, AI defensive/attacking positioning has been stagnant and predictable and to rectify it, EA introduced auto AI tackling where AI tackles perfectly for you which is not what we wanted. We wanted AI to positioning better and still have manual control over the tackling. EA's gameplay designer have 0 idea what the player really wants or what makes a game fun. And apparently EA's gameplay designer doesn't even watch or like football. Same thing is happening with PES. We have people who doesn't really understand football, making football games.
 
Topaz said:
It's also funny that the people that hates on AI defending actually likes the older footie games where the AI was better at positioning and behavior. And since the involvement of hypermotion and 1v1, AI defensive/attacking positioning has been stagnant and predictable and to rectify it, EA introduced auto AI tackling where AI tackles perfectly for you which is not what we wanted. We wanted AI to positioning better and still have manual control over the tackling. EA's gameplay designer have 0 idea what the player really wants or what makes a game fun. And apparently EA's gameplay designer doesn't even watch or like football. Same thing is happening with PES. We have people who doesn't really understand football, making football games.
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I feel like it could get worse, without the FIFA license, it seems EA have more flexibility regarding rules and that, wouldn't be surprised if the more fantasy forms of football take over, even in comparison to what it is today.
 
HeWillKnockFourTimes said:
I feel like it could get worse, without the FIFA license, it seems EA have more flexibility regarding rules and that, wouldn't be surprised if the more fantasy forms of football take over, even in comparison to what it is today.
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First of all mate, although we haven't tended to be a suspicious lot on here for the last two decades in regards to the paranormal and serial killers, you have to change that user name.

Secondly, yes, it could get a lot worse because there's no dog-leash or guiding light at all now past "the FUT crowd want us to release a Messi Goalkeeper card where he has 99 skills for everything goalkeeper related - LET'S DO IT!" Just as Call of Duty now has various rap idols running around in outfits you could spot from the Google Earth satellite, realism isn't a consideration, it's about entertainment and realistic 2-1 games aren't that for the FUT/GenZ crowd. If a Barcelona player isn't giving birth to a demon out of his ass or one of the players doesn't turn into a car, EAFC will be pressured until they do.
 
Anth James said:
Deep Dive on FC-IQ

https://www.ea.com/games/ea-sports-..._hd_ww_ic_soco_twt_fc-25-deep-dive-fc-iq-pn-x
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It all sounds great, but I have this unshakeable feeling that if you play every player out of position, it will make little difference to the basketball "box to box" nature of the gameplay - because punishing the player seems to be a huge no-no.

On top of that, every gameplay clip in there, every pass is an incredible speed (and controlled in a nanosecond). It's just not football.
 
goalgerd said:
They've grown up in a games industry made to be like that, so you can't blame them if they know no different.
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Pretty sure kids will enjoy most games you throw at them. So if we had decent football games, they'd enjoy those too. When we were kids, we enjoyed pes and fifa games as well. Back then, I did not even know what simulation was, nor did I care. I played both and each of them felt different and fun in their own ways.
 
A huge thing I'd like to know about the FC IQ tactical changes are if we'll see the CPU making it's own tactical adjustments within games. Not game to game, but within games themselves. This is such a huge element that would have such a massive impact on overall gameplay and if they don't make use of it, it would be such a shame when it's literally just sitting there waiting to be used.
 
why would anyone like running as a soldier with a duck head in call of duty? for them it's some kind of trolling, humiliating other players or they think it's funny (oh wow), because today everything must be funny and the boundaries of everything must be crossed. I was a child and I was interested in war in a more realistic version, I just didn't have a blank mind, today's children are just stupid, incapable of any thoughts
 
krzysiek923 said:
why would anyone like running as a soldier with a duck head in call of duty? for them it's some kind of trolling, humiliating other players or they think it's funny (oh wow), because today everything must be funny and the boundaries of everything must be crossed. I was a child and I was interested in war in a more realistic version, I just didn't have a blank mind, today's children are just stupid, incapable of any thoughts
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Socrates (not the footballer;))) said so 2500 years ago.
 
Tactically would be a huge improvement. Getting rid of player instructions and work rate to have player roles is fine as long the overall formula get updated for each roles. A holding midfield needs a different skill set compared to an advanced playmaker or half winger, and would be nice if the overall formula gets updated. Also more flexibility on attributes would help a lot on realism (right now the are +-10 points compared to overall for attributes that make the overall) that means midfielders with high standing tackle (less fouls) for example.
 
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