WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

[jonestm]

When they get online fixed it's going to be great!
I just beat some guy who went Chelsea 5-4 with Red Star Belgrade

Brings back happy memories of me and urbanspy beating Barca/Brazil cutbackers on PES6 with Djurgadens with our stifling 361 formation

 

[Chris Davies]

but those things u mentioned have not been fixed in 10 years, so what makes u think they will be fixed now? just play it if u like it man, if u dont then forget it, why are u so hellbent on having it fixed?

I used to love the game, then these things started getting worse. The reason that nothing is done about them, I think, is that a lot of people pretend it's not there and there's not much video evidence about it. And there's not a lot that gets through to Japan.

At the end of the day, you have to try and improve something you love, even if you know it's hopeless. Or at least, that's how I feel.

 

[fatlip180]

anyway - what happened to the dummys in free kick training and the turf flying up from the boot when shooting?

 

[lazavas]

I used to love the game, then these things started getting worse. The reason that nothing is done about them, I think, is that a lot of people pretend it's not there and there's not much video evidence about it. And there's not a lot that gets through to Japan.

At the end of the day, you have to try and improve something you love, even if you know it's hopeless. Or at least, that's how I feel.

yes dude i agree, u have to try, but konami have fucked over all their loyal fans, instead of a breathtaking game they give us shit, first time this year i have gone to fifa, i have hated fifa for years coz in my opinion the gameplay was fucking awful, this year though i think its a great game, but i still want to play pro evo so i will buy it when it comes out and give it a chance, but mate konami aint gonna change something if they dont want to, especially when they sell shitloads of copies, i know i wouldnt spend money on my business if i was doing really well as it is, u know what im trying to get at now? they may change it and fix things eventually but it certainly wont be because u or anyone else has been saying it on a forum, they will do it only if they want to

 

[lazavas]

anyway - what happened to the dummys in free kick training and the turf flying up from the boot when shooting?

u mean they aint in the game?

 

[Chris Davies]

anyway - what happened to the dummys in free kick training and the turf flying up from the boot when shooting?

There was a crapload of slowdown from day one, all the betas that were reported about (by WENB and by various other sites and mags) were said to be almost unplayable. So a lot has had to be taken out and fiddled with to reduce it, obviously. I vaguely remember talk about moving kits but that had to be taken out as well, even though FIFA manages it.

It's all about optimisation, and they just haven't optimised the code very well at all, hence them needing to produce a patch. Konami have said to the team "we need to release at the end of October or else, FIFA has already been out for a month, we can't delay this any more", so the game has been rushed, and it's not in a proper release state (online is literally unplayable for a lot of people, literally, it shouldn't have been included when it's this bad).

 

[fatlip180]

well i played 1 online game - and i wont play anymore until its fixed - it was unplayable

 

[jambotommy]

anyway - what happened to the dummys in free kick training and the turf flying up from the boot when shooting?

Good point mate.

As a sidenote,the guys who are getting the most lag on pes 2008 on xbox live,what routers are you using???

I ask as I was having a nightmare with my netgear wireless router.

I installed my old mercury 4 port router and the lag is almost non-existant.

What a difference, it actually makes the game feel GOOD online.

Big Tam is starting to re-love pro evo.

 

[fatlip180]

at the moment im playing everton in a derby game on top player and winning 4-0 at half time - tis waaaaayyyy to easy

 

[jimbaxter]

As a ps3 owner I have to say pes2008 is totally rubbish...how dare Konami do this to their fans...have they never heard of the concept of trashing your own brand? And to those that had a go at me for my comments being to negative in this thread...are u 'loving' the game now on ps3 - if you are you must be blind, dumb and deaf. Konami hang your collective heads in shame.

 

[koolaje]

If you have a problem with that then I'm sorry but I'm not going to stop bitching about something I see as a serious problem, that is my opinion and if they disappeared in PES2009 I would be over the fucking moon. So I will carry on with that vain hope in mind.

I support you Jack, somebody brave enough to 'fight' Seabass and his 6 developers needs all the help he can get :applause: Hopefully he sees the 'cheating' his AI's doing.

 

[koolaje]

As a ps3 owner I have to say pes2008 is totally rubbish...how dare Konami do this to their fans...have they never heard of the concept of trashing your own brand? And to those that had a go at me for my comments being to negative in this thread...are u 'loving' the game now on ps3 - if you are you must be blind, dumb and deaf. Konami hang your collective heads in shame.

Most of the PS3 players here agree that it is STILL PES, in it's whole addictiveness and flaws. So no, it CANT be totally rubbish, unless you're just for the sake of going against the game in total.

 

[jonestm]

The games a grower for sure.
It has a "one more go" vibe.
The cpu, rather than being total shit, is wildly inconsistent.
You may romp a game 5-1, then get beat 1-0.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Six Reasons Why I Hate PES2008 - The Movie

All about CPU cheating. I've provided this as proof that the CPU cheats but I can never prove it 100% because I'd have to have one camera recording the buttons I press on the pad as well, so believe it or don't believe it. But I'm hoping four years on these boards - and the fact that I've been bothered to record all of this and post it before I take the game back - shows that I deserve some trust.

(Apologies for posting in more than one thread, but I think it's relevant to each one I've posted it in)

EDIT: And I bet you won't see this on WENB...

Great movie. Reason #1 is the reason I want analog passing so bad. I just can't stand it when stuff like that happens in games. It really shows that you have no control at times. The difference between what you wanted to do and what the game did is almost 20 meters.

But if you don't point out the glitches how will they ever be fixed? How would games ever improve if people just kept their mouths shut about the problems?

If you like the game then praise it, if you don't then bitch about it, if you don't want to read the praise or the bitching then there's an ignore button in your control panel where you can add the username of whoever you dislike.

I don't want to play a game that has the same bugs to exploit as ten years ago, and I will try to document that as best as possible so that someone at Konami goes "you know what, he's right, these glitches are always the same and everyone knows how to exploit them before the game even comes out, we should do something about that".

If you have a problem with that then I'm sorry but I'm not going to stop bitching about something I see as a serious problem, that is my opinion and if they disappeared in PES2009 I would be over the fucking moon. So I will carry on with that vain hope in mind.

I hope you don't. Make more videos if you feel like it, someone needs to I feel.

anyway - what happened to the dummys in free kick training and the turf flying up from the boot when shooting?

I dunno, but they aren't there. I was looking forward to the dummies. Also they removed the Play Again feature in training that enabled you to repeat situations by rewinding to keypoints in the past (so that you could play just before a volley and shoot over and over to see how the power bar reacts in certain situations and such).

 

[Chris Davies]

I hope you don't. Make more videos if you feel like it, someone needs to I feel.

I genuinely want to in the vain hope that something gets changed, but I've only rented the game until tonight, so that's the last one you'll be getting I'm afraid.

It won't make any difference anyway, and you (and I) know it.

 

[jimbaxter]

Well to be honest I actually love the PES series, but this version is awful - the framerate issues IS very bad (it is un accceptable to have such issues on a next gen game), the lack of editing option likewise, the less than stellar graphics is also a problem (the pixelate crowd is really ugly to see etc).

In past years I have spend a great deal of time enjoying PES, but at the moment Konami have reduced the end users range of options AND produced a game which is very hard to like or even play properly. I can't see myself spending a great deal of time with it - it just seem like it's NOT worth it.

And I haven't even mentioned the rubbish goalkeeping or the stupid AI with players running all over the place like headless chickens.

And that is why I am so angry with Konami, but perhaps more so with idiotic fanboys that make constant excuses for them...how will we ever get a better game if we always say..."well it's mint" every year no matter what.

 

[shilam0unainai]

lol

 

[jonestm]

Where are these idiotic fanboys of which you speak baxter?
All i see is criticsm, constructive and otherwise, from me as well.

 

[Chris Davies]

Jim, although people will slate you for being OTT (and for slagging off WENB), I agree with that last line. Not because of "idiotic" fanboys - I don't think they're idiots, I just think they've got more forgiveness than we have.

If you can play the game and completely ignore the CPU cheats (or glitches, whatever), if you can completely forgive the goalkeepers for spilling shots into the net, if you can do all of that and play the game as if these problems aren't there, then you will love it because it's a solid game apart from those things. I don't understand how people can do that to be blunt with you, but I know a few people who can.

I can't physically block it out, it makes me want to smash pads when it happens, but if you're of a mindset where you can just block it out it must feel like a wonderful game.

Where are these idiotic fanboys of which you speak baxter?
All i see is criticsm, constructive and otherwise, from me as well.

I think he's referring to people in other threads who are saying things like "Seabass is a genius" and "this is the best game since WE5", and just ignoring any posts that criticise the game (off-the-pitch or on it). But each to their own.

 

[jimbaxter]

I wonder if PES2009 is as bad people will stop buying it. I know that for me Konami are in danger of me just ignoring them and not buying any of their future PES games...or indeed any of their games. For a good 5-6 years now I have not purchased any EA games. If a company treats it's customers with contempt then really the customers shouldn't give them their money or time.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

I genuinely want to in the vain hope that something gets changed, but I've only rented the game until tonight, so that's the last one you'll be getting I'm afraid.

It won't make any difference anyway, and you (and I) know it.

Well, then thanks for atleast making this one. Good to have a video of it, so everyone knows what "we" are on about sometimes.


Also, the funny thing is that 5 of the 6 problems in your video is gameplay and physics problems.

#6 is an AI problem with the player being in the wrong position. But all others is due to crap physics, collision detection, passing systems, and other gameplay things.

To me getting the physics correct in a game is the one thing that cannot be excused. So much of it is hard cold facts, like deflections and such. If the ball hits your leg, the angle of the leg where the ball hits and the curl of the ball etc determines what angle it deflects off it for example.

AI is obviously completely theoretical and abstract (thought processes of humans are very hard to emulate), and is more aceptable for errors in my opinion. So the head through the chest stings more in my eyes then the fullback who runs away simply because one "could" happen in real life, while the other never could.

 

[jonestm]

Ah right, i don't read the other threads.
Personally i both love and hate the game

 

[Lami]

I'm crazy or noob lool ..

could someone tell me how to change these arrows

coz i search every where and i cant find it .. just tell me if it possible to change and how

Set Formation > Edit > Then Click on R2 or L2 to switch between Edit position, Attack, and Defence.

Ana kent daye3 metlak fel awal bas ba3den i found it

 

[jimbaxter]

jonestm a few pages back on this thread yoour responded to one of my comments that you where 'sure' you would love the game (do you perhaps wish to acknowledge those of us that had fears about the game have been proved correct?).

Also I have seen many many posts both at evo-web and other forums making excuses and saying in effect 'deal with it'. Why should I - NON of my other PS3 games run as badly as PES2008, and they are move graphically challenging!

An even without the slowdowns why have the editing options been slashed? Why are the Goalkeepers pathetic? Why do the CB's go AWOL? Why do cross field balls feel like rockets being launched? - Why because Konami thought that all of that WAS good enough for us loyal fans...well it IS NOT.

 

[Beatts]

jonestm a few pages back on this thread yoour responded to one of my comments that you where 'sure' you would love the game (do you perhaps wish to acknowledge those of us that had fears about the game have been proved correct?).

Also I have seen many many posts both at evo-web and other forums making excuses and saying in effect 'deal with it'. Why should I - NON of my other PS3 games run as badly as PES2008, and they are move graphically challenging!

An even without the slowdowns why have the editing options been slashed? Why are the Goalkeepers pathetic? Why do the CB's go AWOL? Why do cross field balls feel like rockets being launched? - Why because Konami thought that all of that WAS good enough for us loyal fans...well it IS NOT.

I will say Jim that i agree with you 100% on these issues. Indeed i am very much an optimist myself but these are all things that need to be adressed. I fear the problem is now not the game itself but rather the way the game has been made and the thought processes behind it all. When seabass said that he had not changed the way he made games since the Snes i was disgusted i felt cheated.

I just hope to god he is actually radically changing the way his team makes the game.

The cross format shit has them stretched waaay too thin imho, and in this gen of consoles you cant be half assed, or it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Junka]

[Winning11 Blog] PES 2008 Focus: Animations Comparison - http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/10/pes-2008-focus-animations-comparison.html

 

[jimbaxter]

Beatts ty mate - when people tell us PES2008 is good or great even then they are insulting the intelligence of people.

Here is one example of an idiot fanboy doing just that:

PES 2008 is the best football simulation ever. I played both, PES and FIFA. If you know football, than there´s no other choice than PES.

Really PES2008 the best football simulation? Really in what universe is it even a remotely good football simulation? As for Fifa I have no idea about it as I say I still boycott EA games due to years of feeling ripped off by them.

Again I hope those that endlessly hyped this game before it's release are feeling a little ashamed, and as for Konami - are they becoming the old EA I got so angry with - i.e. a bunch of chancers giving their customers extremely poor products and hence totally ripping us off. That was what stopped me buying any EA game and I hope Konami wake up to this problem.

In my view they are very close to trashing their brand.

 

[Chris Davies]

Jim, I respect that you don't want to buy anything by EA, and don't get me wrong, FIFA 08 isn't perfect. But as Trance has said (and I regard him as Evo-Web's resident physicist), they are aiming to make a complete simulation, whereas Konami are obviously not. They're going for the "WOO 5-5 WOT A GAME!" audience.

Ironically, one of the things that makes FIFA 08 frustrating for me is one of the things they said they would be including from the start; slower reaction times. They say that, if Gerrard wants to kick a ball, there has to be a second where the crowd holds its breath and he shapes up for the shot. Meaning that, online especially, you've lost the ball before you've hit it. And the first thing I thought about PES2008 was, WOW, I don't care if the response times are more unrealistic, they're better, end of story. And then I realised that they weren't so great when you had a CPU player on you.

The other bad thing about FIFA is the defenders who are always fantastic, no matter what team you're playing. It's very frustrating trying to beat a man when you know you've got the skill and he's a crap defender, and yet you can't beat him. You get used to it and I don't notice it so much now, but they do need to tweak this.

But they are aiming for a pure simulation, and I salute them for it. This year, whether you think it's a crap game or not, FIFA 08 is the simulation. And it's about time.

 

[DJ Doc45]

Should I make a FIFA video showing the annoyances of FIFA? The lack of control etc? Also them god awful player models and Pathetic appearances? I agree PES has always had those type of problems and I for one have constantly ranted about them for a long time but for me the Game is still 10 times more playable than FIFA.

 

[Chris Davies]

DJ, seriously, go for it. I would like to see both games improved - two wrongs don't make a right, just because one is worse than the other doesn't mean neither should be improved. So if you can be bothered, do it, and hopefully EA will take notice of it (far more chance than Konami noticing mine, anyway).

I would still rather play a game with new bugs than with the same ten-year-old bugs - it's the fact that you always know what's coming that winds me up. This is why people say "the game is always the same" - even if it's not, these bugs are always there, and ten years of the same limits is atrocious. That's what they're usually referring to.

But each to his own, and as I've said every year for about five years, hopefully next year we'll get one incredible football game.