WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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I can't understand why the fuck I couldn't resist and wasted 70 Euros on this game. I can't even give the game back and get a refund, I'll have to keep it. So unless Konami fix the animated .gif I've bought for my PS3, I don't know what I'll do.

Playing PES has made me love FIFA even more. :|
 
Jack Bauer said:
I don't like to add fuel to the fire of an argument, but as has been said about ten times now, the idea that one man-made computer game is FACTUALLY better than another is complete and utter nonsense, and the fact that you say it boils down to common sense makes it even more infuriating. The whole basis of a fact is something that you can prove unequivocally, so to say a game plays better than another is a fact, is incredibly ironic when you follow it by "not everyone has common sense".
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Well in science they harp on about how there's never a 100% certainty or whatever.

I think it would be more accepted that PES has consistently been regarded as the better game for 10 years now. The only way to back it up would be to look at the reviews, in which Pro Evo has beaten Fifa in god knows how many mags/websites for years on end.
 
I'm being so misunderstood here.

Buhh.. I still don't understand why you consider it utter and complete nonsense. PES is better than Fifa is some departments and Fifa is better than PES in some too. Why can't this be right?
 
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Lami said:
I'm being so misunderstood here.
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Yeah I've given up.

I'm an outside oberver as well.

There's a tide of bullshit that has slowly gathered momentum.

If you pause to reflect you get trampled on and you drown and die a horrible death.

Pro Evo is still the best football sim out there. Still getting the best reviews and will still be the game that people play most.

It's almost set in stone but people are at brown underwear alert 5 right now so they think that what's right is wrong and that a future of anarchy and evil is the right path to go down.

Fight the good fight, bruthaaaa
 
Lami said:
I'm being so misunderstood here.

Buhh.. I still don't understand why you consider it utter and complete nonsense. PES is better than Fifa is some departments and Fifa is better than PES in some too. Why can't this be right?
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True, FIFA does some stuff better, PES does some stuff better. But to say it is a fact that gameplay is better in one than in the other is not true, you might as well say cheese is disgusting and that's a fact. It's just not.

Even when it comes to things like the faces, it's blatantly obvious to most (if not all) that the faces in PES2008 are great and utter crap in FIFA 08. But that doesn't make it a fact. Some people might prefer the skin texture in FIFA and think that the faces look drawn and cartoony in PES. I disagree, you disagree, anyone with a good pair of eyes or glasses would disagree, but it's not a fact.

Badgerman said:
Pro Evo is still the best football sim out there.
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That's fine, you don't have to say "in my opinion" because it's obviously your opinion as it's you who's saying it - but you're not saying "THIS IS A FACT".

I know plenty of people who say the gameplay in PES2008 is fantastic, and plenty of people who say the gameplay in PES2008 makes them want to cry. Ex-fanboys on each side. The game has certainly been less well-recepted than usual (I'm tempted to say "that's a fact" but I don't have a portfolio of research to support this, so I'll just say that this time last year, I knew no fanboys who said the game was going downhill).
 
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Badgerman said:
Pro Evo is still the best football sim out there. Still getting the best reviews and will still be the game that people play most.
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So as long as a game is the best in its genre it doesnt matter if its a disappointment?

As I said before NBA2K8 is the best basketball game on the market but that doesnt excuse the developers for releasing a game with flaws that NBA2K7 didnt have.
 
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Lol Badger :) You're not only funny but intelligent too :)

@Jack,

Please don't compare me to Hitler :) Mate, this is becoming neverending and only making this thread worse. How about we stop because i don't really like to argue, it only depresses me that we're arguing over a game..
 
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Jack Bauer said:
That's fine, you don't have to say "in my opinion" because it's obviously your opinion as it's you who's saying it - but you're not saying "THIS IS A FACT".

I know plenty of people who say the gameplay in PES2008 is fantastic, and plenty of people who say the gameplay in PES2008 makes them want to cry. Ex-fanboys on each side. The game has certainly been less well-recepted than usual (I'm tempted to say "that's a fact" but I don't have a portfolio of research to support this, so I'll just say that this time last year, I knew no fanboys who said the game was going downhill).
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The obvious response is that I've heard all sorts of people say that Fifa has been improving for the last 5 years, however that isn't reflective of how it stacks up against an under-performing (seemingly, haven't played it) Pro Evo.

I'm really quite out of it but Fifa will always be more focused on the aesthetics whilst Pro Evo has always delivered on the gameplay front. Bare in mind different people play the game in different ways, slight tweaks that are hard to get used to will always make people miffy.

I'd say that PES is feeling a backlash as it hasn't reached the, by all accounts unreasonable, expectations set. As a result, people have had their knives out from day 1 and all of this is how I'd imagine it.

I also see Pro Evo being amazing next year and everyone going on about how it's risen from the ashes. Cue me quoting this in 10 months time.

kobashi said:
So as long as a game is the best in its genre it doesnt matter if its a disappointment?

As I said before NBA2K8 is the best basketball game on the market but that doesnt excuse the developers for releasing a game with flaws that NBA2K7 didnt have.
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Well my argument would be could you have done a better job? Whilst you could rack up a list of 10 big faults with Pro Evo I am a bajillion percent sure that Konami are already aware of them.

People round here like to think of themselves as some top class consultant. Well if you were then you wouldn't be arguing with nerds on the internet. Fact of the matter is that there's a boatload of presure to adapt to a new generation of consoles and quickly. In a years time Konami, and co, will have the experience and we will be able to see what progress they are making and what we can expect from thereafter.


edit: this is essentially my Gandalf moment, where common sense is the focus as opposed to heat of the moment stuff. My last stand, as it were.

YouShallNotPass2.jpg



thar we go
 
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I have been a huge PES Fan for years. Since the days of ISS Deluxe on the SNES. Though the game hasnt evolved much since PES6 I still think its good. Yep it has issues but what game doesnt? I still get that great feeling I always have done with PES games.. the sense of occasion if you like. In FIFA I dont get that, even with 08 Next Gen, in fact what I get is frustration and anger at the pathetic response times and god awful control of the football that the players often have. Obviously in PES this isnt the case.

My main gripe with PES is still the lack of Manual Passing (its 100% CPU Scripted still after all these years) and the fact the game still runs a bit too fast for my liking. Plus a few too many goalkeeper spills of reasonable straightforward shots and too many tap ins... (wait didnt FIFA used to be Plagued with this?)

However having said all this im still totally captivated by this game! Got the PS3 version last night at midnight from ASDA in Bristol. The queue waiting for the game was massive! I am so glad the missus said "Lets get there early!"
 
Badgerman said:
The obvious response is that I've heard all sorts of people say that Fifa has been improving for the last 5 years, however that isn't reflective of how it stacks up against an under-performing (seemingly, haven't played it) Pro Evo.
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If you haven't played FIFA 08 next-gen, you can't talk about it. It is a simulation, the controls are fully manual, there's 90% less cheats and it's great. The response times are the only thing that grate with me - but even then, that's through poor programming rather than PES's great response times until you get a CPU player next to you when it suddenly takes these response times off you. FIFA 08 is a great game, and much more of a simulation than PES. In my opinion.

Badgerman said:
I'd say that PES is feeling a backlash as it hasn't reached the, by all accounts unreasonable, expectations set. As a result, people have had their knives out from day 1 and all of this is how I'd imagine it.
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I would have agreed with you until I'd played it myself today, but my problems with PES2008 are... The goalkeeper pushes every shot into the net or out for a corner. Scorelines are often 3-3, 4-4, 5-5. Online, players are constantly disappearing and re-appearing 50ft up the pitch. If that suits your expectations then... I mean, there's no excuse. You can tell me you can learn the game and reduce the scorelines, but if you do then you end up winning 5-0 rather than drawing 5-5 - but more to the point, you can't fix the goalkeeping. (If you say "but you could if you edit all of the goalkeepers" then good luck to you, have fun spending two months editing the game to make it playable.)

I didn't expect such excessive CPU cheating to still be there, and it is, but that could be classed as an unrealistic expectation. But the game is buggy, and that's something you don't usually associate with PES. It's very, very odd.

But anyway, you've said before you don't have a next-gen machine - so until you try both games I wouldn't comment. Not trying to be a ponce, but you can't comment, because you can't see what the game is like now. You might trust Seabass and think he'll never let you down, but saying that he hasn't without playing the game is blind faith.

As for the amount of people not liking it being heavier this year - in an effort to prove my point, TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. Obacaman is someone who has given one hell of a fucking lot to the PES community. His tools have given us ways of patching the game and enhancing our gameplay experience. He has dedicated days, weeks, months of his time to his graphics tools. He is a big fan of the game. And even he is saying the game is very poor.
 
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Jack Bauer said:
If you haven't played FIFA 08 next-gen, you can't talk about it. It is a simulation, the controls are fully manual, there's 90% less cheats and it's on the road to being a fantastic game. The response times are the only thing that grate with me - but even then, that's through poor programming rather than PES's great response times until you get a CPU player next to you when it suddenly takes these response times off you. It's a great game. In my opinion.
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I've played a bit of Fifa.

The worrying bit about it, which has been present for some time, is that the gameplay almost feels as if it's like a table football game. Defence, midfield and attack are oddly divided up for me whilst PES has always had a certain flow to it.

Pro Evo also looks right. A counter attack looks as you'd imagine it, with panicking defenders and players running into space.


Jack Bauer said:
I would have agreed with you until I'd played it myself today, but my problems with PES2008 are... The goalkeeper pushes every shot into the net or out for a corner. Scorelines are often 3-3, 4-4, 5-5. Online, players are constantly disappearing and re-appearing 50ft up the pitch. If that suits your expectations then... I mean, there's no excuse. You can tell me you can learn the game and reduce the scorelines, but if you do then you end up winning 5-0 rather than drawing 5-5 - but more to the point, you can't fix the goalkeeping. (If you say "but you could if you edit all of the goalkeepers" then good luck to you, have fun spending two months editing the game to make it playable.)
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Okey dokes, I have a new theory. What we're having now is growing pains. The game is still an improvement but there's obvious issues with the hardware and the like.

Now I know it's cheeky to say wait until next year but PES has given me enough glee over the years that I'm willing to let this slide. The potential is most definitely there and I'm pretty sure that we can all agree there.

Which brings me onto my next point. No matter what, I would stick my money on Pro Evo being the game that is capable of blowing my socks off and my underwear up my bum, whilst Fifa would be the game that makes me go "Ah, that's kinda cool, I hope that Konami stick that in PES in some form."

Jack Bauer said:
I didn't expect such excessive CPU cheating to still be there, and it is, but that could be classed as an unrealistic expectation. But the game is buggy, and that's something you don't usually associate with PES. It's very, very odd.
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I always interpretted it as a challenge, a if they were handicapping me.

I loved it as I'd usually win and come out of it feeling as if I've got a 14 inch willy (only 12 irl, woe is me) and making a face much like
emotheheow1.gif





We're different breeds I suppose. But I do love shoving on my prediction hat (and subsequently being proven right).

i am the greetest


edit: i had a good common sense streak going on there, oh well
 
some ppl should stfu......and go play FIFA08

for the others,here are some pics of the mccroix PS3 OF KITTS

ENJOY
kit1.jpg

kit2.jpg

kit3.jpg

kit4.jpg
 
Badgerman said:
I always interpretted it as a challenge, a if they were handicapping me.

I loved it as I'd usually win and come out of it feeling as if I've got a 14 inch willy (only 12 irl, woe is me) and making a face much like
emotheheow1.gif


We're different breeds I suppose.
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True, we are different. I've never seen the cheating as something that made the game more challenging - it just makes me want to smash the pad, because there's nothing you can do about it. But if that's what floats your boat then all power to you.

I'll happily admit that FIFA has lost its offline appeal with me already (hopefully people realise that I'm nothing if not honest) - but not because of the gameplay, which I genuinely love, but because of the balls-up they've made with things like the career mode.

I stopped playing PES regularly a few years ago, not because of the gameplay, but because of the lack of competitions to win that I hadn't already won - I don't see the point in winning them again unless it's in the Master League, and I don't see the point in the Master League because it's an unrealistic format with a two-league structure but no actual lower-league teams. Again, if you can play constant friendlies and enjoy it, good luck to you, but I've always wanted the Master League to be something realistic (and for there to be lower-league teams when you've got two leagues in the ML, otherwise it's a bit of a stupid idea).

Well, FIFA has the lower-league teams, and promotion/relegation, but no play-offs. Which just ruins it, for me. Woohoo, I finished 5th, that took so much hard work! Oh wait, it means nothing, there's no play-offs. Bugger. What's the point?

If it wasn't for the online leagues I wouldn't still be playing the game. But that's no different than I feel about this new PES; I'm not getting it because I wouldn't play it after a week, like I didn't play PES6 after a week, like I didn't play PES5 after a week.

Like you say, everyone's different!

Junka said:
some ppl should stfu......and go play FIFA08
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We're having a good discussion here, how about you stop posting pictures of terrible looking kits and go play PES2008? :)
 
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Jack Bauer said:
Like you say, everyone's different!
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Unfortunately 97% of people here have abandoned thinking for themselves are are just going with the flow. That for me is where this thread has died on it's arse. People have been told what to dislike about the game and what to look out for. As a result, the slightest inkling of seeing something they've heard about makes them feel as if they've just found Waldo and must proclaim to the world that they too are part of a super special club.

Luckily thinking for myself is a particular strongpoint as I refuse to be a cog in this wheel of terror and inevitable suicide pacts.
 
I know what you mean and unfortunately people will lump me in with that, but in my defence I said from the start I notice no slowdown whatsoever in-game, and I'm always honest. If I wanted to jump all over PES and nothing else I would have said "OMGGGGGG ITZ LIKE PLAYIN ON A 1950S PROJECTAAA OR SUMTHIN MATE", and I wouldn't mention how much I miss the response times (and I really fucking do, the first five minutes of PES2008 I was actually thinking "I've been wasting time on FIFA").
 
Junka said:
some ppl should stfu......and go play FIFA08

for the others,here are some pics of the mccroix PS3 OF KITTS
]
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This looks like something off LMA or Club football or whatever back in 2003.

This is one aspect that we should be brushing under the carpet until next year.

I don't care about in game editing that much but changing it to the point where we're very clearly taking a massive leap backwards is something that we shouldn't be championing.

Without sounding like a pirate junkie I hope the PS3 get's cracked or chipped/whatever as soon and as easy as possible so we can put our own shit into the games.

In a years time everything will be looking peachy.
 
Jack Bauer said:
I know what you mean and unfortunately people will lump me in with that, but in my defence I said from the start I notice no slowdown whatsoever in-game, and I'm always honest. If I wanted to jump all over PES and nothing else I would have said "OMGGGGGG ITZ LIKE PLAYIN ON A 1950S PROJECTAAA OR SUMTHIN MATE", and I wouldn't mention how much I miss the response times (and I really fucking do, the first five minutes of PES2008 I was actually thinking "I've been wasting time on FIFA").
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I've used "unfortunately" and "people" too much today but I'm tuck in a word rut.

Unfortunately people have made their minds up about the game and peope here.

There are roughly 4 dissenting voices here but we might as well be trying to put out the Californian wildfires via the power of prayer.

These Fifa avatars haven't helped. If you gain recognition as having one then you are and will forever be one of them. It's a trap that you'd of done well of to avoid. Being in the middle is greet
 
At the end of the day I don't take it as seriously as that - well, I do, but what I mean is... I'm having fun with FIFA and I haven't had proper fun with a football game since - WE8FE/WE9? I think? And yes, having a fun avatar to go with it will always attract the "go play FIFA" comments, but then honestly, I've had them for the last three years anyway every time I've mentioned how Konami could add lower leagues with no licenses or a shitload of blank teams. "GO PLAY FIFA! YOU WANT IMPROVEMENTS! EVIL!" If I'm not used to not being taken seriously by now, despite attempting to be detailed, balanced and articulate, then I never will be.
 
An interesting note here is that you have a cycles of new people here every so often. Indeed I only started posting here seriously thanks to this thread, although my posting is limited to this thread. But yeah, point being that you're going to get the same arguments for years to come.

Real life and the Internet have a wee bit of a gap between them
 
Badgerman said:
I've used "unfortunately" and "people" too much today but I'm tuck in a word rut.

Unfortunately people have made their minds up about the game and peope here.

There are roughly 4 dissenting voices here but we might as well be trying to put out the Californian wildfires via the power of prayer.

These Fifa avatars haven't helped. If you gain recognition as having one then you are and will forever be one of them. It's a trap that you'd of done well of to avoid. Being in the middle is greet
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I can see where you are coming from, though I would not like to say that all these people don't also think for themselves. If they liked the game they probably wouldn't be criticising it (atleast that is how I would act :)).

Also the demo has been out for quite a while, and apart from having wide camera now, I find very little difference between the demo and the full game. We've seen reviews that commented on the goalkeepers being sharper than in the demo, yet we now see alot of people complaining of goalkeepers making simple mistakes etc in the full game. So some people have had quite alot of time with the game if you count the demo, which I personally do, meaning they may have had alot of play time to base their decisions on, with the full game merely cementing what they already suspected about certain aspects of the game, and in some cases making things worse perhaps.
 
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JB that fifa fanboy comment i hope you ignored it! yeah you make a lot of sense regarding offline features of both games. I just play pes with friends as its great fun.
 
can any one tell me
how can i make more Slow motion in reply ??
what key i should use cuz i cant find the key for that
it was in PES6 but i cant make it in PES08 PC
any one tested it ??
 
Im now finding (after a 3 hour sesh) if you never use the R1 run button except at obvious times like running through on goal or down the wing. the game opens up into a fanastic pass and move-athon where you can carve a few quality chances and keep your shape for when the CPU attacks you.

this is great because it makes the game flow in a more real-life way and you see alot less of those 'shit-I-have-left-the-Chip-Pan-on' esque sprints. which is nice.
 
Badgerman said:
Well in science they harp on about how there's never a 100% certainty or whatever.

I think it would be more accepted that PES has consistently been regarded as the better game for 10 years now. The only way to back it up would be to look at the reviews, in which Pro Evo has beaten Fifa in god knows how many mags/websites for years on end.
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I would agree with this.

But, for me what matters the most is not "what game is the most fun", but more "what game comes closest to simulating the physics, kinetics and other things" of football.

FIFA08 is the definitive winner there. It is obvious that you will get slower response tiems when the players actually need to sort their feet out before they can strike or handle the ball, whilst in PES their feet will just magically slide into positoon to be able to kick the ball a millisecond after you press the shotbutton. FIFA is slower, but also more realistic with how real humans behave, and the limitations of movements etc. If you really observe how PES looks while playng, it violates even basic physics constantly, with a player being able to kick the ball even though he just had planted his shooting foot into the ground to support his weight on it. Yet he magically doesn't fall over.

I much prefer the game where you need to plan ahead slightly just to make sure that you have enough time before the shot, for the player to take a step or two and get into the proper stance for the shot.
 
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