WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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It is simple really. Play both games with your eyes wide open and get rid of what YOU want. You'll then notice the difference between a fact and an opinion.

My opinion? This game is far from what i want. Fact? It is still PES. What i want? PES gameplay + Fifa's everything except gameplay.

I don't really care who's offended and who isn't. Just like all you like overrating and underrating games, i enjoy talking common sense. If you don't see it, its your problem ;)

In the end, this is a game. Game = entertainment. Entertainment = Fun. Fun = enjoying your time. So enjoy your time with what you may like. Like or dislike what you want. But taking games so seriously isn't exactly mature. I'm not here to engage in a game war. I'm not into that ;)

It is a fact that some people talk common sense and some don't. Not all humans are blessed with it. You want proof? We have it here in this thread. Everyone entitled to an opinion right? Ok. So that means both people who use and not use common sense give theirs. What is the result? Quite a good number of readers are lost.

Jack, why did you actually think that my words were directed at you? I may dissapoint you here but you weren't the one i meant. Sorry you got offended but i can't stop you from feeling that way.

This is directed at everyone:
Anyway sorry to bore you with this post. Enjoy Fifa. Enjoy PES. Enjoy both or just one of them. Dislike both and put your money where its worth. Its all upto yous :) Bare in mind there are many readers who wait for reviews. My only request is, please say it how it is, state the facts, do not exaggerate, and do not misguide people.

Thank you.

EDIT: I think i caused so much ruckus in here. Sorry about that.
 
Lami said:
Fact is, Fifa looks better, PES plays better. Period. And no this isn't only my opinion; this is a fact.
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Do you realise what constitutes a fact?! A scientifically / empirical truth that can't be argued and can be proven to be true.

In other words what you are saying is total nonsense. God I hate people saying their opinion is fact, and then repeating it throughout their argument.

Trans allstar has already mentioned it, but Ill add my bit.

What do you consider gameplay?

For you need to accurately describe this before you could even argue it as a fact. If, for you, gameplay is purely response times, then yes, PES has the better gameplay.

Offcourse we all, and I assume you aswell, would know that gameplay is so much more then just responsetime. Control is something you could add to that, the degree by which you can accurately aim. Realistic reaction of object within the gameworld is another, by that I mean that in the context of the subject the movement / behaviour is realistic in the manner that it will allow you to accurately predict what you need to do in response to onscreen movement / behaviour to allow yourself to determine the necessary response for which you use the controlpad and the buttons on it. [I hope that sentance isnt too complicated for you all, although I would expect a few to be drooling over their keyboard in confusion].

I could go on, however I think my point is clear, namely gameplay consists of a number of elements and when viewing them all it is definitly not A FACT, as you are trying to state, that pes has the better gameplay. It can be your opinion, which is fine, but don't attempt to force it as fact just because you are tired of the negative opinions. And repeating the "fact" really doesn't work. In fact, pardon the pun, it only annoys and recieves responses like mine. And there is really no need, as you seem to be one of the more balanced posters in here...

Edit

As the post above shows :D
 
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hazza10 said:
you fat tool shut up. you dont have a clue what you are talking about. you are probably some fat big headed tool who works up the city and your girl friend blatently has you under the thumb. if i was you i would stop trying to be like your 15 year old brother who is clearly some super good looking chick magnet.

ps. maybe you should try and get down the gym a bit more
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OMG, best post ever.
 
Lami said:
Jack, why did you actually think that my words were directed at you? I may dissapoint you here but you weren't the one i meant. Sorry you got offended but i can't stop you from feeling that way.
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You can't be surprised can ya? ;)

You said that your opinion about the game being better than FIFA was fact. What that basically means is that noone can have any other valid opinions (since fact means that you are "right" in a scientifical way, which noone can disagree with without being wrong/not backed by fact). So even though you stated everyone are entitled to their opinions, you had also stated that the factual conclusion was that PES is better, which makes it unavailable for debate.



Also, why the hell is response time so important. Real humans don't have uberquick response times. We can't immediately kick a ball with our right foot if we have all our weight on it, which is not a problem in PES (physically wrong, and thus actually factually wrong/unrealistic).
We also have reaction times, both in the time it takes visual and other sensory impressions to reach the brain, and the processing time that takes, followed by the time it takes for the muscles to receive instructions from the brain.

And this is not just 0.1x seconds like sprinters ready at the starting line. Sprinters are completely focused and aware of what their reaction should be once the gun sounds. In football we need to react to things we are not prepared for, such as sudden deflections of the ball. Since we cannot adjust out balance and such in preparation for these events, the reaction time to such things can be in the 0.5 - 1.0 seconds (as can be evident by goalkeepers failing to respond to shots when they are deflected or when they are moving the wrong way etc.


So why would you want "quick response times" and not "realistic response times"? It further shows that realism seems to not the on the forefront, which again makes me question why at the same time so many say PES is a simulation.

The fact that feet are still sliding in PES makes the response times unnaturally fast since players can shoot with the foot they were just about to plant to carry their weight (in real life doing that would cause one to fall over quite hard).
 
Hmm... haven't followed the thread as I'm a very busy man, though, we can't put a picture of our own face into the game?... only cam? (if so, does eyetog work?)
 
Jack Bauer said:
That's it, disc is back in the box. Just played a European Cup, Eng v Tur, and every time I got a defender in front of an attacker and pressed standing tackle, he just WOULD NOT DO IT - and the same with shots, I had a great opportunity to score with a defender off to the side of me, I press shoot and by the time he's actually kicking the ball the defender has made a tackle. The response times in FIFA are poor but at least it's a programming problem and not a blatant cheat that only happens when there's a CPU player close to you.

It's not that you can't score, A) I'd rather that I couldn't (through the CPU PLAYING WELL) and B) it's too easy to score across all the difficulties. It's the fact that the cheats are still there and the game desperately needs ripping up and starting again. Not good enough.

Bitterly disappointed, and after it looked so promising at the start.
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:lol: Well, I did say.

And you didn't even have the PS3 version with the utterly laughable slowdown all over the pitch - like trying to play a Dual-Core processor game on a Pentium 200. It's chronic.

The whole point of me giving up on PC gaming a few years ago was to get round the problem of having to continually upgrade my h/w in order to get a decent performance out of the latest games. Console gaming should have been the solution, and indeed is, except for PES.

And it's not like the PS3 is the problem. I have FIFA08 and it plays without a hint of slowdown and is graphically superior to boot. I have a few other game demos, like the GT5 demo...16 absolutely beautifully detailed AI cars, all racing simultaneously, not even a hint of slowdown.

The fact is, Konami don't know how to program the PS3 and they don't know how to program AI without cheating.
 
Trance_Allstar said:
You can't be surprised can ya? ;)

You said that your opinion about the game being better than FIFA was fact. What that basically means is that noone can have any other valid opinions (since fact means that you are "right" in a scientifical way, which noone can disagree with without being wrong/not backed by fact). So even though you stated everyone are entitled to their opinions, you had also stated that the factual conclusion was that PES is better, which makes it unavailable for debate.



Also, why the hell is response time so important. Real humans don't have uberquick response times. We can't immediately kick a ball with our right foot if we have all our weight on it, which is not a problem in PES (physically wrong, and thus actually factually wrong/unrealistic).
We also have reaction times, both in the time it takes visual and other sensory impressions to reach the brain, and the processing time that takes, followed by the time it takes for the muscles to receive instructions from the brain.

And this is not just 0.1x seconds like sprinters ready at the starting line. Sprinters are completely focused and aware of what their reaction should be once the gun sounds. In football we need to react to things we are not prepared for, such as sudden deflections of the ball. Since we cannot adjust out balance and such in preparation for these events, the reaction time to such things can be in the 0.5 - 1.0 seconds (as can be evident by goalkeepers failing to respond to shots when they are deflected or when they are moving the wrong way etc.


So why would you want "quick response times" and not "realistic response times"? It further shows that realism seems to not the on the forefront, which again makes me question why at the same time so many say PES is a simulation.

The fact that feet are still sliding in PES makes the response times unnaturally fast since players can shoot with the foot they were just about to plant to carry their weight (in real life doing that would cause one to fall over quite hard).
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I'm sorry you got me wrong... I'd never say my opinion is a fact. I'm far from being Dictator-like. When i said "Fact is, Fifa looks better, PES plays better. Period. And no this isn't only my opinion; this is a fact", i didn't mean that my opinion is a fact. I meant that "Fifa looks better, PES plays better" is a fact, not an opinion. Not mine and not anyones. Sorry i didn't put it in a better way. I think it is the word "only" that made it sound like my opinion is a fact. Sorry about the misunderstanding again.
 
just spoke with a friend who has been playing local multi-player all day and he sez 90% of his matches are finishing 3-2, 4-3, 5-3 etc.

These high scoring games doesnt fill me with confidence.
 
kobashi said:
just spoke with a friend who has been playing local multi-player all day and he sez 90% of his matches are finishing 3-2, 4-3, 5-3 etc.

These high scoring games doesnt fill me with confidence.
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I hope its because people arent used to defending yet and are trying the press the usual buttons to press ...lets hope!! I have played 10 games on xbox and they were 3-2, 2-0, 3-1 etc, can see many 0-0s happening.
 
Lami said:
I'm sorry you got me wrong... I'd never say my opinion is a fact. I'm far from being Dictator-like. When i said "Fact is, Fifa looks better, PES plays better. Period. And no this isn't only my opinion; this is a fact", i didn't mean that my opinion is a fact. I meant that "Fifa looks better, PES plays better" is a fact, not an opinion. Not mine and not anyones. Sorry i didn't put it in a better way. I think it is the word "only" that made it sound like my opinion is a fact. Sorry about the misunderstanding again.
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No, it's the "Fifa looks better, PES plays better" is a fact, not an opinion that was rightly being picked up on. These are opinions, not facts, the issue of "how good the gameplay is" being particularly subjective.
 
Lami said:
I'm sorry you got me wrong... I'd never say my opinion is a fact. I'm far from being Dictator-like. When i said "Fact is, Fifa looks better, PES plays better. Period. And no this isn't only my opinion; this is a fact", i didn't mean that my opinion is a fact. I meant that "Fifa looks better, PES plays better" is a fact, not an opinion.
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So you're just repeating yourself rather than correcting yourself then? Which still means you're saying anyone who prefers FIFA to PES has no common sense, i.e. is stupid.

I seem to recall reading Hitler saying that Jews were a lower form of life and that was a "fact". I won't be best pleased if myself and Cammey end up in a gas chamber (although I can just imagine a few thousand people on this forum who would be :mryellow:).
 
got to admit tho...(and I love my proEvo)

goals are cheap in this version and the dribbling is too easy

all this means is that Online is gonna be shite. run, run, run, close eyes and shoot!
 
Jack Bauer said:
So you're just repeating yourself rather than correcting yourself then? Which still means you're saying anyone who prefers FIFA to PES has no common sense, i.e. is stupid.
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Why would i correct myself? And when did i say anyone who prefers FIFA to PES has no common sense?

Mate, please don't twist my words. Common sense is both are games, games are there to entertain you. Games weren't made to be taken seriously.

I clearly said i'll be playing both this year. I also clearly said i want PES gameplay with Fifa's everything but gameplay. Again i too said PES isn't what i expected it to be this year. Did i say i'm in love with it and i hate Fifa? No. Heck i didn't even buy PES2008, my friend bought it and gave it to me as a gift because he didn't accept the idea that i'm not buying it this year. I like the fact that Fifa is progressing.

I simply want a football game that can both entertain me and simulate real football. I guess that is what we all want, right? Fact is, at the time being neither PES nor FIFA have that because if any of them did then we woulnd't be complaining so much :)

"Fifa looks better, PES plays better"
Everyone agrees when you look at it, Fifa, it is like you're watching a real football game. It plays fine too. PES plays better doesn't mean Fifa plays like shit. It only means it plays better than Fifa. For example if Fifa's gameplay is a 7, PES's gameplay is an 8. These aren't real ratings though i'm just giving an example of what better means so my words won't be interpreted wrongly.

Why is that a fact? Fifa lacks in both player uniqueness and responsiveness for example. And Jack you know this is a major reason why many people enjoy playing PES. You also know PES always had gameplay and nothing else. PES always lacked in the other departments, the same departments Fifa exceled in. Still people prefered PES only because of its gameplay. Is PES gameplay perfect? No. Trance Allstar and many of yous suggest some amazing stuff that would definitely improve PES's gameplay (and Fifa's too so i wouldn't be labelled a PES fanboy :)).
 
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Lami said:
I'm sorry you got me wrong... I'd never say my opinion is a fact. I'm far from being Dictator-like. When i said "Fact is, Fifa looks better, PES plays better. Period. And no this isn't only my opinion; this is a fact", i didn't mean that my opinion is a fact. I meant that "Fifa looks better, PES plays better" is a fact, not an opinion. Not mine and not anyones. Sorry i didn't put it in a better way. I think it is the word "only" that made it sound like my opinion is a fact. Sorry about the misunderstanding again.
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Seems like you have confused yourself as you are still stating that "Fifa looks better, PES plays better" is a fact when it is subjective
 
Foik me does it matter guys.... Lami says Fifa looks better, Pes plays better. the word "fact" was used, Fact.
I think this latest offering from Konami and Seafoam is getting to people, i hope the patch is in Capitals or is actually WE2008....
 
SXFuzz said:
I'm refusing to give any opinion as of yet. Had the game a couple of days and I don't want to tear it to shreds without extensive play-testing.
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LOL..

im the BIGGEST winning eleven/pes fan.. its the ONLY game i play.. i am VERY biased..

but SURELY you can see the jerkyness of the gameplay???
 
Lami said:
Why would i correct myself? And when did i say anyone who prefers FIFA to PES has no common sense?
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Lami said:
Fact is, Fifa looks better, PES plays better. Period. And no this isn't only my opinion; this is a fact. Again everyone entitled to an opinion, yes. But sorry to say this, not everyone has common sense.
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I don't like to add fuel to the fire of an argument, but as has been said about ten times now, the idea that one man-made computer game is FACTUALLY better than another is complete and utter nonsense, and the fact that you say it boils down to common sense makes it even more infuriating. The whole basis of a fact is something that you can prove unequivocally, so to say a game plays better than another is a fact, is incredibly ironic when you follow it by "not everyone has common sense".
 
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Holy Ghost said:
Im very suprised that people are not going MAD on here about how JERKY the ps3 version is..?

Am i the only one who has noticed this???
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No, it became apparent to me as soon as I kicked off my very first match. It's extremely poor.

The strange thing is that I remember lots of comments being made in the weeks leading up to the release about how smooth the game was....uninspiring gameplay but so beautifully smooth. Smooth is the exact opposite of how the PS3 version plays.

Seabass's words about how their development team is not sufficiently equipped to handle producing this game on multiple platforms are being shown to be true as they don't appear to have a PS3 programmer.
 
Do we know if Konami will be releasing an update to fix the jerky gameplay.. or are we loyal fans gona get ripped off??

LOL.. The PS2 version plays better/smoother than the PS3 version!?

VERY DISSAPOINTED!!?
 
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