WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Jack Bauer said:
Han, just so I get a balanced opinion... ;) What changes do you see to the ML?

EDIT: Well there's a great post above me (thanks for that trance_allstar - I only wish you worked in the games journalism industry so Seabass would hear anything other than "you're so great, your cock must be massive, like, the size of a house - NO, THE TITANIC!") but you can still answer if you can be bothered talking to a FIFA fan. ;)
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I let you know when I have played a couple of ML matches. Sofar I did not yet play it. I was busy with the new edit mode and during play I tried to learn the new way of defending, which is tougher than previous versions, because of the agility of the attackers.
I also bought the new PES-guide, which is very interesting, especially because of the Coaching-DVD. Highly recommended! I learned a lot about which area's you defended in a particular way. ( small example: Don't use 2nd press close to your CB's because then you can pull them out of position ). That's why I did not try ML yet
 
Han said:
EDIT: Just read Winston's post above where he said he only played a couple of matches ( post # 18562 ):
If he plays only a couple of matches, how can he see Teamvision is not working??!! I rest my case... ;)
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A couple of ML matches. Played plenty of other matches in other competitions ;).

As far as I'm concerned, "TeamVision" is an irrelevance when the AI model relies on the identical cpu cheats that pervaded PES6. If all these cheats were now non-existent, or even more subtle, I might be persuaded that TeamVision represents some kind of progress, but as all of these cheats became so evident so quickly, I can easily conclude that TeamVision has not got the intelligence that permits Konami to remove the need for cheats, so it's presence or otherwise is irrelevant as the gameplay expierence is still ghastly.
 
winston said:
A couple of ML matches. Played plenty of other matches in other competitions .



As far as I'm concerned, "TeamVision" is an irrelevance when the AI model relies on the identical cpu cheats that pervaded PES6. If all these cheats were now non-existent, or even more subtle, I might be persuaded that TeamVision represents some kind of progress, but as all of these cheats became so evident so quickly, I can easily conclude that TeamVision has not got the intelligence that permits Konami to remove the need for cheats, so it's presence or otherwise is irrelevant as the gameplay expierence is still ghastly.
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I already said I played no ML yet, so that can change my opinion, but sofar I find the cheat's have definatly been reduced. In fact, the CPU changes his formation when it is behind and you can see at the mentality-indicator if it plays more attacking or defensive. Just by the color of it.
So if it playes all out attack ( red mentality indicator ) you better change your formation to more defending. If you don't do that, you might think it is still scripted. In fact it is a very advanced way of AI-play!
 
Han said:
I already said I played no ML yet, so that can change my opinion, but sofar I find the cheat's have definatly been reduced. In fact, the CPU changes his formation when it is behind and you can see at the mentality-indicator if it plays more attacking or defensive. Just by the color of it.
So if it playes all out attack ( red mentality indicator ) you better change your formation to more defending. If you don't do that, you might think it is still scripted. In fact it is a very advanced way of AI-play!
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the CPU has adjusted formations and attacking mentality since ATLEAST pes6. this game IS pes6. shitty goalies? Check. Dumb Human support AI? Check. Same engine limitations as PS2? Check. Scripts that intentionally slow your player down during loose balls, bounces that go towards CPU 90% of the time and super dribbling shitty player by the CPU? Check.

teamvision is crap... they read that FIFA had threat maps and decided they needed something to add to the game. too bad that something is just a name/gimmick.
 
tonnyrat said:
the CPU has adjusted formations and attacking mentality since ATLEAST pes6. this game IS pes6. shitty goalies? Check. Dumb Human support AI? Check. Same engine limitations as PS2? Check. Scripts that intentionally slow your player down during loose balls, bounces that go towards CPU 90% of the time and super dribbling shitty player by the CPU? Check.

teamvision is crap... they read that FIFA had threat maps and decided they needed something to add to the game. too bad that something is just a name/gimmick.
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You are just wrong about teamvision. I have seen that the CPU got holes at particular places of it's defense. I won that match because of it. Next match it started with the same holes in defense and after conceding another goal it suddenly changed it's formation and the hole was removed. The next match it started with the adapted formation. That was NOT in the previous versions!
 
Han said:
I already said I played no ML yet, so that can change my opinion, but sofar I find the cheat's have definatly been reduced. In fact, the CPU changes his formation when it is behind and you can see at the mentality-indicator if it plays more attacking or defensive. Just by the color of it.
So if it playes all out attack ( red mentality indicator ) you better change your formation to more defending. If you don't do that, you might think it is still scripted. In fact it is a very advanced way of AI-play!
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What's new about that? That's been in the game for a few years.

With regard to cpu cheats, they have always been far more apparent in ML. My first few matches in PES2008 were just exhibition matches. They went OK, no horrendous cpu cheats (just like previous versions on PES) so the main issue was the horrific slowdown, too much to just ignore or get used to. The other issue was the complete lack of anything new. Seeing the same old scitped passing system was and lack of any real manual control just seems so wrong now, particularly after playing FIFA08.

But then I tried a few league, cup and ML matches and all the old cpu cheats emerged immediately. Not even a hint of doubt as to their precense, they're still there, so the AI model is still the relying on the same cheats. The worst aspect of the cheats is when it takes control of your guy to change his direction and/or speed....totally unacceptable! Konami can say what they wasn't about TeamVision, their AI still relies wholly on cheats.

And that's not to mention the complete ineptitude of your own AI team mates who appear to have not been improved in the slightest. At least with FIFA, you can trigger them to makes runs, but in PES, yet again I find myself standing with the ball waiting for my forward to run into that big open space behind him, but he chooses to hide behind a defender, that's if he's not making a desparate run away from the goals towards the halfway line.

It's a shambolic mess. They need to rip this up and start again from scratch.
 
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Had two simply amazing games on PES6 PS2 earlier, so its gonna be good to compare that to PES2008 when I get it tomorrow, hopefully I get the PS2 version delivered tomorrow, otherwise be just the PS3 version.

I also have a eyetoy so it should be all good for the editing side at the moment.
 
JayM said:
Yep. But it's ridiculously fun.

My defending has gotten better over the course of the day but I think I'll need to play 100 games to ever get a 0-0. :shock:
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See I could never have fun if every game finished 5-5, even if the gameplay was fantastic. It would be like playing Gran Turismo and driving at 400mph. To me, your sports games are there to be realistic and your Bioshocks and your Crash Bandicoots are there to be zany.

I'm just a realism freak I suppose...
 
well got mine tonight for ps3 and i have to say let down in a big way. It's even crashed three times already and had to reboot manually, the only game to do so since i got the console on launch day don't if anyone else has had this happen, and this is besides the fact slowdown is very noticeable and juddering replays. We've been shafted lads by konami big style. the patch to fix it better come some or this game is unplayable.
 
a few things about the master league boys.
-no kit selection
-20 teams in div 1 and 2
-can change if you want to start in div 1 or 2
-completely customize the leagues you play in e.g make a league of real madrid, man u, ac etc
-edit your team whilst in master league
 
Jack Bauer said:
See I could never have fun if every game finished 5-5, even if the gameplay was fantastic. It would be like playing Gran Turismo and driving at 400mph. To me, your sports games are there to be realistic and your Bioshocks and your Crash Bandicoots are there to be zany.

I'm just a realism freak I suppose...
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lol im the same lol. i dont like playin a game like man u vs arsenal and it ends lol 6-4 or what ever lol. i would sometimes not take my chances lol just so the result is more tight lol but of course if im playin someone like derby or what ever lol i would give them a good 4 nil batterin lol


ps sorry for the double postin lol
 
herbo said:
well got mine tonight for ps3 and i have to say let down in a big way. It's even crashed three times already and had to reboot manually, the only game to do so since i got the console on launch day don't if anyone else has had this happen, and this is besides the fact slowdown is very noticeable and juddering replays. We've been shafted lads by konami big style. the patch to fix it better come some or this game is unplayable.
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Have you updated your PS3 to the latest firmware? It should make a difference.
 
Yep all up to date checked for firmware update, says i'm all up to date. but still the same. just crashed again during an offside replay. Especially fustrating as i was 2-1 up against everton. Don't know wether to take it back in case the disc is faulty.
 
I gave into the temptation and got this game from Asada at 12, for the 360, but I am sad to say that I feel robbed and cheated, by PES2008, nothing about it appeals to me, I have played 2 matches on-line and the bugs are unreal, WTFreak?!! disappearing balls and players...........suffice to say next week I will trade this in for NBA2K8 and continue to play Fifa till next year
 
Unbeleivable the number of users that are having problems with this game. Truly a very bad business practice. It's like they have complete disregard for respect towards their fans.

I really don't get it. The game is almost completely unplayable for some, and bug/cheat ridden for others. I hope I get a good copy.

I do hope Konami fixes this problems with a patch, or return the money in full to some of the unhappy buyers.

What an injustice..
 
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herbo said:
Yep all up to date checked for firmware update, says i'm all up to date. but still the same. just crashed again during an offside replay. Especially fustrating as i was 2-1 up against everton. Don't know wether to take it back in case the disc is faulty.
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How much free space in your HD? (Basic troubleshooing, dunno if this is relevant in PS3)
 
I guess I will wait for the ps3 ver of World soccer winning eleven 2008 (jap) instead of buying PES2008, even though I cannot read japanese.
Does anyone feel the same way as me?
 
herbo said:
well got mine tonight for ps3 and i have to say let down in a big way. It's even crashed three times already and had to reboot manually, the only game to do so since i got the console on launch day don't if anyone else has had this happen, and this is besides the fact slowdown is very noticeable and juddering replays. We've been shafted lads by konami big style. the patch to fix it better come some or this game is unplayable.
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try this: (this is copied for WENB)
“Hi, I've found the following improvements for better and smoother framerates for ps3 games.
Like set the BD/DVD upscaler set off,HDMI 24fps off, HDMI audio set on bitstream, PS2 upscaler/smoother set off.
Disable system display notify/ mediaserver off / all other automatic setting set to off / internet disable if not multiplaying and other setting etc will all help improve framerates.

I tested all the games with HDMI 720p, and all games runs more smoother, speed and more responsive, I think cell dont have to spend time in the background from those settings before.

Let us know if this also helps the framerates for you too”
 
Noted said:
Are you talking about some sort of fix for slowdown mate?
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Nope all i have done is install the game on the HDD

I am enjoying the game. I found Fifa boring & stiff. I have already seen better runs by forwards in one game than i ever saw in all the games in Fifa, in PES2008 the run forward at different angles AUTOMATICALLY here as in Fifa its all straight lines even after hitting a bloody button for them to run.

This game needs a patch. I paid £30 for mine so i am more than happy. The slowdow is there for me but not in a massive way so i can understand some of the reviews.

The very first stadium i tried was the Bernebeau on Normal Long i had nothing major. The i tried wide view same stadium Barca v Real againg nothing major.

Onlin is a diffrent issue but for me the game is fun playable 7 that what games are meant to be. Now a revelation but an enjoyable tweak of an already fantastic game.

PES2009 i have no doubt will be great but thats for next year i am playin PES2008 and loving it.
 
Well, the girlfriend woke me up early since she had work, so it looks like I will be heading over to town for 9.

Expect my full rundown on the game, including edit mode around 2pm :D
 
after reading people's views I might just cancel my pre-order for WE2008 on xbox 360. I normally buy Winning Eleven every year but I might not get this one.

COD4, Assassin's creed, Super Mario Galaxy are all being released in november so WE2008 may just have to wait till later time.

Is anyone else planning to get WE2008 on the 360 as I would like to know if it is different from PES2008 on 360. Placebo the Asian version is released same day as Japanese. Are you buying it?
 
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