WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Lol... she looks good from far but far from good..lol, but my thought were (like you said), good close up, shite from far, and what from middle? That was my question. ;).......
jesus!! Trance how long does it take you to write out one post? :shock: , I totally understand ur very valid points about the analogue passing/shooting, though, but it'll be a bitch to implement, imagine all the parameters that'll be programed to affect ONE pass made in a game especially if the player is in all the situations you penned down ala off balance, pressured, fatigued, etc :shock: ? Certainly Very complicated, but it'll be well worth every minute of coding for sure.... konami needs to see that post about the limited user control BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY..

Yeah, it can seem like much hehe.

Though it's not that hard to be honest.

The input from the pad is calculated first.

The angle of the analog stick, the power on the power bar and the "timing" of the timing factor are all collected. Once those are collected, the game knows exactly what you want to do, and it can calculate exactly what trajectory the ball would get from your inputs.

The analog aim input and the powerbar are simple factual data, and the timing data, once collected, is immediately calculated (how far off timing-wise you were), and then scaled using the stamina data for the player (so that the error percentage is scaled up if the stamina meter is down). This Timing data is then used to affect the aim direction and the power of the pass (less power the worse timing you had).


After all the "Hard" input-data is collected (and the timing-data is calculated from the stamina bar, and the timing value is applied to the aim and power inputs), the game will apply various "corrupting" parameters to this, such as "Pass Accuracy", The players balance (which, as I suppose it is now, is also scaled for the players Balance stat, so that a player with good balance will be less affected by being pressured or such).

After all that is done, we now have a new set of data for the direction and power of the pass (if you were to go more advanced, you could also calculate ball spin data from a system which calculates how far off-center you struck the ball, which could be a result of misstiming the "timing factor" buttonpress).


Not hard at all. :D
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Does the likes of Virtua Tennis 3 get moaned at for no power bar for shots and shite? The fact it rarely hits the net aswell? Dont think so... Not that I have heard of, they just play it for fun and it is fun, I was pissed when I couldnt win the king of players did it in the end, trained my guy up more :D

Its funny how people are different with Pro Evo though, it has to be more than fun or something!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Does the likes of Virtua Tennis 3 get moaned at for no power bar for shots and shite? The fact it rarely hits the net aswell? Dont think so... Not that I have heard of, they just play it for fun and it is fun, I was pissed when I couldnt win the king of players did it in the end, trained my guy up more :D

Its funny how people are different with Pro Evo though, it has to be more than fun or something!


I just want the same playability and control ISS98 had. 10 years man... ;)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Does the likes of Virtua Tennis 3 get moaned at for no power bar for shots and shite? The fact it rarely hits the net aswell? Dont think so... Not that I have heard of, they just play it for fun and it is fun, I was pissed when I couldnt win the king of players did it in the end, trained my guy up more :D

Its funny how people are different with Pro Evo though, it has to be more than fun or something!

Nah, it's good but can be improved further.

VT3 btw is an arcade game rather than a simulation...
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

you said it yourself gameplay better on ps2 than xbox and so ps3 better gameplay than 360 , how can it level it self out , you buy games for the gameplay mainly not superficial things like lighting etc , so it will be slighlty tighter controls on ps3 and therefore better gameplay and slower i.e. more realistic , this is what you want where does the level it self out come from. face it it will be slighlty better on ps3 just cuz seabass like the d-pad and designed it for the ps3 as this what the japs play it on.


Slightly tighter controls doesn't equal PS3 OWNS. The Xbox controls are good, too. Add on that the Xbox versions and the 360 versions look better. Graphics count too, mister. That's how it levels out.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Just got home from work and read the 9 pages of Love for Fifa etc.

We are now seeing a growing problem Konami has always had.
Even tho Konami have been producing a better game then EA for a few years now ppl have continued to buy Fifa and ussually more copies.

So as soon as Fifa even have a game that comes close to Konamis the Rats will desert the sinking ship in a blink of an eye.

But Even while Konami have had the Great gameplay.
For 4 years They have continued to change nothing in its Masterleague and continued to give us generic cup modes etc.
So noone is to blame but Seabass and this day was long overdue and while us die hard fans will continue to linger on this board etc a lot will gladly leave if Fifa is as good as suggested.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

I guess a part of the problem is that FIFA is so far behind PES that theres so much they can improve on. Where as PES are running out of ideas seeing how it has always been a great game. So when Seabass wants to sell it's title, he has to change things (even the stuff that was perfect to begin with) just for the sake of changing something and making it look new.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

LOL talk about a fanboy statement!

Fifa has so many things that it's ahead of PES on it's laughable, leagues, modes, licenses, presentation, atmosphere, commentary, graphics......gameplay is where the fans of both sides can't agree so I won't go there.....

The ML in PES is an absolute joke, it's pathetic and has been essentially the same since PES3, every year it comes out and people list 50 things they'd like to see added to the ML, if Konami are "running out of ideas" then it clearly shows that they need a new team to develop PES/WE.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

I'm not lost, I know perfectly well where I am, I don't suffer from delusions unlike some people here, but thanks for your concern :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Yeah, it can seem like much hehe.

Though it's not that hard to be honest.

The input from the pad is calculated first.

The angle of the analog stick, the power on the power bar and the "timing" of the timing factor are all collected. Once those are collected, the game knows exactly what you want to do, and it can calculate exactly what trajectory the ball would get from your inputs.

The analog aim input and the powerbar are simple factual data, and the timing data, once collected, is immediately calculated (how far off timing-wise you were), and then scaled using the stamina data for the player (so that the error percentage is scaled up if the stamina meter is down). This Timing data is then used to affect the aim direction and the power of the pass (less power the worse timing you had).


After all the "Hard" input-data is collected (and the timing-data is calculated from the stamina bar, and the timing value is applied to the aim and power inputs), the game will apply various "corrupting" parameters to this, such as "Pass Accuracy", The players balance (which, as I suppose it is now, is also scaled for the players Balance stat, so that a player with good balance will be less affected by being pressured or such).

After all that is done, we now have a new set of data for the direction and power of the pass (if you were to go more advanced, you could also calculate ball spin data from a system which calculates how far off-center you struck the ball, which could be a result of misstiming the "timing factor" buttonpress).


Not hard at all. :D

Man ,Konami would do well to hire you because your ideas are brilliant.The system you just explained could work for shooting/crosses/through passes/ground passes.
I had an idea that 360° left stick direction makes the D-pad useless.Most of sports games use the D-pad for choosing which tactics to apply.In PES it's done by :l2:+:triangle: or :l2:+:square: ....
We would have a free :l2: button which could be used for new dribbles or outside of the foot shot.

In fact with 360° and power for passing we wouldn't need to use :triangle: anymore which would free this button for others gameplay stuff .
In total ,with good thinking Konami could save :l2: and :triangle: thus allowing more gameplay possibilities .
Too bad Konami will unlikely take those changes into consideration because it could be really interesting.

ps:Most of PES2008 animations are unrealistic ,what a shame.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

I guess a part of the problem is that FIFA is so far behind PES that theres so much they can improve on. Where as PES are running out of ideas seeing how it has always been a great game. So when Seabass wants to sell it's title, he has to change things (even the stuff that was perfect to begin with) just for the sake of changing something and making it look new.

There are tons of stuff that needs to be changed or added to the PES franchise.The gameplay could do with huge improvements (even if it's the best thing on the market).
Some of the ideas I saw on pesfan during these last few months were sheer beauty and made me open my eyes to PES flaws (i'm not talking about FIFA ;) ).Seabass and his team aren't just arsed to take the game to another level (I'm only talking about gameplay and not gfx which I don't really care)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

I guess a part of the problem is that FIFA is so far behind PES that theres so much they can improve on. Where as PES are running out of ideas seeing how it has always been a great game. So when Seabass wants to sell it's title, he has to change things (even the stuff that was perfect to begin with) just for the sake of changing something and making it look new.


:lol:

It is certainly true that Seabass is running out of ideas, what with him releasing the exact same game 4 years running. But Seabass is a lucky boy because there are a hardcore of even more unimaginitive people who are willing to give him money for this, year in year out, no matter what. It's like an annual charitable donation to the Konami benevolent fund.

And remember, the world really is flat, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Did anyone already said how nice and good everything looks on pes 2008?
I like it.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

winston ,enjoy playing fifa08 then,and please declare your admiration for the game on the fifa thread.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

winston ,enjoy playing fifa08 then,and please declare your admiration for the game on the fifa thread.

No, that must be done with silly signatures, so you can make a point without directly making a point and make yourself feel better by putting anyone that likes PES2008 down.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

FIFAGGOTS please leave this thread
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Has there been any word about online mode for the PS3? I am particularly interested in if a PS3 user can play PES2008 against a PS2 user?

I have a PS3 and my brother in England has a PS2 and at the moment we are enjoying playing PES6 together online. It would be great if PES2008 on both consoles was compatible online as PS2 and PC are now.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

winston ,enjoy playing fifa08 then,and please declare your admiration for the game on the fifa thread.

But my point was wholly about PES, Konami and the blind loyalty of some of it's fans. Why would I post that in a FIFA thread?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

actually,who cares?I'll be playing FIFA08,on all your posts.
if you dont care dont comment please,winston.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

FIFAGGOTS

Did your Mummy help you with that one or did you think of it all by yourself?

The majority of people here like myself supported Konami over the past few years by buying and playing previous PES/WE, now that we're having the audacity to criticise Konami/Seabass for continually showing little effort or commitment to improvement we're being vilified for it? Anybody would think we'd gone round knocking up everyone's sister then posting naked pictures of her on the internet......

Calling us Fifa fanboys when we've been around for years, part of this community for years, involved in editing, hosting, patching and the like for years is really, really sad and just shows the calibre of the remaining PES loyalists.

Does me saying PES looks shit make me a Fifa fanboy? It would if I blindly praised Fifa and refused to acknowledge its' faults, I don't do that, most people I see here praising Fifa do so with the knowledge and acceptance of Fifa's faults.

Does my signature make me a Fifa fanboy? Perhaps if it weren't a satirical play on another signature I saw around here, I'm sure you've all seen it......

I have no interest in whether PES sells more or Fifa sells more, I have no interest in which game has the larger community, I try to share my opinion and thoughts and discuss the two games and discuss my thoughts on the coverage the two games are getting, isn't that why we're using a discussion board?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

I love PES, always will and I'll stcik by it. But the thing that dissapoints me the most, is that nothing about the game looks next gen. It looks like a tweaked Xbox 360 version of PES6 and this really pisses me off. We wait so long for it and the same old PES, not to say it's a bad thing, but it's not exciting anymore, PES doesn't blow me away like it used to.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

I must say that I agree with a lot of the previous post by Placebo. There are obviously faults in both games and the one with the least faults will earn the recognition of the best footie game for the next-gen consoles.

It all comes down to taste in the end but I still want to stress that no one can (or should) say that they will be snubbing PES/buying FIFA without having played them. How the hell can people decide when we've only seen some shaky camcorder videos and stills or some snazzy tricks on FIFA?

Why are people arguing when not one person on here KNOWS what it's like to play PES2008 or FIFA08?
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Why are people arguing when not one person on here KNOWS what it's like to play PES2008 or FIFA08?

No one knows what Fifa is like to play, we only have what the EA PR(opaganda) team dreamed up.

No you cant play it, but theres nothing to hide honest, it great, look at the skills!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

GAMESPOT says the PS3 version is better!!

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/sports/pes2008/news.html?sid=6177332



i beleive more on gamespot then on WENB guys who are xbox360 owners.

gamespot also say that virtua tennis, MLB 2K6 and lots of other mulit-format games are better looking on 360. even though gamespot say it other sites/people disagree. I am sure it will be the same with PES2008, some people will say PS3, some will say 360. overall the differences will be so little most people won't notice anyway.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

when there is a playable fifa08 demo on my ps3 il try it,with a bucket close to me.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Off-topic alert: I know there's an 'ignore' option but tbh i don't think it's mature to block people because you don't like their views.

1. This is a discussion thread (as many already have stated) meaning anyone can say whatever they want (freedom of speech).
2. The same people who for some reason are very hasty in criticizing both PES and Fifa backup their words with point no.1. Yet at the same time they add people to their ignore list because they don't like what they read? Isn't that contradicting? ;)

At the end of the day let's all remember this is a game. We're here because we're all football fanboys FIRST, and thus we'd want the best out of a footy game :) No one should hate or dislike another over a game. (Now someone will spring out of no where screaming 'THIS IS SPARTAAAA!!!' :lol:)

How about we all gather around a REAL pitch, play REAL footy, invite both EA and Konami and show them how REAL football should be played eh ;)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

No one knows what Fifa is like to play, we only have what the EA PR(opaganda) team dreamed up.

All we can do is base our assessments on the stuff we're being show, the stuff we're being told and the stuff we saw for ourselves in the previous version of each game, for example:

1. Fifa historically has great presentation
2. PES 6 on 360 was awful
3. UCL on 360 played a pretty decent game of football
4. UCL showed a pretty solid graphics engine
5. Fifa 07 360 was shallow and lacked a lot of modes
6. UCL had a number of bugs and quirkes
7. PES 6 on 360 was rushed and very much an incomplete package
8. Most EA sports titles are rushed and have problems somewhere which may or may not be fixed
9. Previous Konami titles have been less than impressive in terms of presentation and commentary
10. ML is very shallow and frustrates most people who play that mode and have hoped for improvements since PES3

You see what we're doing? We're taking the evidence and making early assumptions, whether we're right or wrong at the end of the day if we don't speculate what is the point of discussing anything about PES/Fifa right now? We might as well just sit quietly waiting for the next URL to look at, where's the fun in that? ;)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

People saying that FIFA will be better are so blind.

Testers of Gamekult said that the gameplay is on majority the same as the previous FIFA with an excellent graphic engine and atmosphere.

Sorry mates but I prefer a "tweaked" excellent Gameplay than a Ferrari with a Citroen motorisation
 
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