WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread
- Thread starter ThomasGOAL
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EditorInChimp
League 2
- 14 August 2007
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
gotta laugh
Ref literally walks through him lol
gotta laugh
Ref literally walks through him lol
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Have'nt you ever seen a girl from a distance who looks fucking catwalk but then close up she's a complete fucking munter? I think it's like that the other way around,good close up,shite from afar.
t_proevo4life
pes2008...bring it on!
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
im looking forward to the new edition of psm3 mag as they mentioned in the previous version that they will have a lot of info regarding pes 2008. Hopefully they have something new.
im looking forward to the new edition of psm3 mag as they mentioned in the previous version that they will have a lot of info regarding pes 2008. Hopefully they have something new.
but I guess I was dreaming again 
tobi
"Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose."
- 5 August 2005
- Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Have i missed anything today, I've been at work?
Have i missed anything today, I've been at work?
jaygrim
TheAllSeeingEye
tobi
"Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose."
- 5 August 2005
- Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Still no box art?
Where is the info from the PES 2008 press conference?
Still no box art?
Where is the info from the PES 2008 press conference?
- Staff
- #9,369
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Are you best mates with Nick?
No box art yet, I'm sure you'll find it on WENB when it's released. No info from the conference yet either, poor Adonis has been left on his own in Germany so he'll be struggling to do everything at once.
Are you best mates with Nick?
No box art yet, I'm sure you'll find it on WENB when it's released. No info from the conference yet either, poor Adonis has been left on his own in Germany so he'll be struggling to do everything at once.
J79
League 1
- 28 May 2003
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
i played the first game that the pes engine used, it was called Goalstorm, it was good, sometimes if you got yellow carded your player would slap the ref and obviously get sent off, it was awesome
- Thread starter
- #9,371
ThomasGOAL
Retired Footballer
- 15 March 2003
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
GC Leipzig 07: PS3 Brazil Vs. Argentina Face Models
http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/08/gc-leipzig-07-ps3-brazil-vs-argentina.html
GC Leipzig 07: PS3 Brazil Vs. Argentina Face Models
http://www.winningelevenblog.com/2007/08/gc-leipzig-07-ps3-brazil-vs-argentina.html
tobi
"Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose."
- 5 August 2005
- Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
I'm not having a go at anyone and WENB weren't the only ones at the press conference, unless Konami embargoed it which would be a very strange thing to do.
I'm not having a go at anyone and WENB weren't the only ones at the press conference, unless Konami embargoed it which would be a very strange thing to do.
uae_sniper
The Sniper
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
thnx mate
great details ... welldone konami
thnx mate
great details ... welldone konami
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So Maldini catching Henry in a flat race is realistic to you, damn
Don't count on it, all these mags do is tell you how great it is, it will NEVER give you an overall view
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
So Maldini catching Henry in a flat race is realistic to you, damn
Don't count on it, all these mags do is tell you how great it is, it will NEVER give you an overall view
airjoca
International
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
I think you can see it in the long version of the game intro.
I think you can see it in the long version of the game intro.
NickSCFC
Banned
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Can't believe Ronaldinho's not in the starting line-up, he's the start player, the last player you'd leave out.
Konami, you are complete fuck ups, nothing more!
Can't believe Ronaldinho's not in the starting line-up, he's the start player, the last player you'd leave out.
Konami, you are complete fuck ups, nothing more!
uae_sniper
The Sniper
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
maybe konami take the last brazil formation in copa america
maybe konami take the last brazil formation in copa america
NickSCFC
Banned
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Also these replays showing faces we weep getting, why when the camera circles the players is it so jerky. And it's not that the video is dodgy cause when it plays a replay it runs fine.
Man Konami piss me off.
Also these replays showing faces we weep getting, why when the camera circles the players is it so jerky. And it's not that the video is dodgy cause when it plays a replay it runs fine.
Man Konami piss me off.
tobi
"Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose."
- 5 August 2005
- Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
It happens every year, certain players who are starters are on the bench as default, its no big deal, 2 mins in the edit mode will take care of it.
If they did that then fair enough although Kaka wasnt at the Copa America either yet he is in the starting 11, still its no big deal.
It happens every year, certain players who are starters are on the bench as default, its no big deal, 2 mins in the edit mode will take care of it.
If they did that then fair enough although Kaka wasnt at the Copa America either yet he is in the starting 11, still its no big deal.
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SXFuzz
Championship
- 17 November 2001
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Most of the faces look really good, but Torres looks extremely odd.
Most of the faces look really good, but Torres looks extremely odd.
uae_sniper
The Sniper
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
you right .. like you say .. 2 min in edit mode .. but you have to say 1 min .. coz it is next-gen so it must be faster lol
you right .. like you say .. 2 min in edit mode .. but you have to say 1 min .. coz it is next-gen so it must be faster lol
tobi
"Clear Eyes Full Hearts Can't Lose."
- 5 August 2005
- Spurs, Suns and Cowboys
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Very true.
El Nino and Sergio Ramos look like a babies, Emre and Tuncay look excellent, David Villa and Albeda are spot on, Puyol and Iker look like themselves.
Very true.
El Nino and Sergio Ramos look like a babies, Emre and Tuncay look excellent, David Villa and Albeda are spot on, Puyol and Iker look like themselves.
Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
This is exactly what is wrong with games today, and this applies to PES aswell.
The game designers intentionally give you limited control possibilities to keep the absolute control with the game AI so that it can make matches more exciting. For example, keeping passing 8-way digital without any choice for power means the AI is free to make passes as good or as poor at it wishes, depending on where it feels the game should go.
The problem is that, if I am not myself causing the errors in a game (for example striking the passes too slowly due to the lack of pass power bar) , then there is nothing I can change to fix it.
So how do you fix this?
Well, in the example of PES and passing:
- Pass Powerbar
- Analog aiming (as high resolution as possible, 256 or more directions)
- SOme sort of timing skill required.
So, for a good pass, you need to:
- Handle the analog stick, so that the aim is right at your teammate. Remember, the player pass stats will "spread" the aim appropriately randomly so you need to be right on the money with the stick or else the ball could end up quite a long ways from the intended target).
- Know what power to get on the power bar. Too hard, and it might overshoot the target. Too soft, and it might get intercepted. Too hard, it will become difficult to receive. Etc etc.
- Some sort of timing device. This isn't usually in these sorts of lists, but I feel strongly about it. Consider old Golf games. You need to press a button to start the swing, then the button again at the appropriate power. THEN you need to time the last buttonpress so that the actual "hit" will be good.
The reason for the "timing" is that, unlike real sports where players get exhausted and, as a result, unaccurate during the match (or tennis game, whatever), a player sitting infront of a TV using a thumbstick, can become extremely accurate with his movements. So, only having the aim of a pass dependant on the analog stick direction can become too unrealistic.
With the "timing" factor, we have all of this:
- Analog stick determines direction
- Player pass stats determine how accurately the player can hit your intended direction.
- The "timing factor" will give you a further challenge in getting the ball to go where you want it to. Timing, signifying the quality of the ball hit, will affect both aim and power (a better hit giving more push to the ball).
AND, the best thing with this timing factor:
As the players becomes more and more tired (depletion of the stamina bar) during a game, it will become exceedingly difficult to get a good "timing". A button press with a timing that with a completely fresh player would have given an additional error margin of perhaps 8-10% on the aim, will with a depleted player give perhaps 20%. As players are getting more tired their muscle control worsens and they will have a harder time making their muscles perform the movement they want them to.
But, since KONAMI and everyone else wants their games to be instantly appealing, they can't be bothered to use systems where the player himself needs to practice.
WHich is a bit weird, since Golf games, like I mentioned, have in the past been all about timing and control. You needed to play the game alot to train yourself to time the shot just right, so that the hit was as close to perfect as possible.
And keep in mind, even though you perform everything perfectly (Stick Aim, Power, Timing) there is still the players stats working as a "master randomization" system. You can never become more accurate than the player stats allow you.
But, to prevent a player with 99 on all stats from becoming a machine when shooting and such, the "timing factor" needs to be made to be almost impossible to master completely. Again, stamina is a factor in it.
And, even if you have a completely fresh player, and you get perfect aim, power and timing, the stats system needs to be adjusted (preferably modelled after the real world) so that there is a substantial enough error margin even with all other things perfect.
If I made a football game, this is what I would use. What I feel is the perfect balance between AI (stats) influence and player interaction that can be practiced and honed to a large degree.
The timing system could also be for freekicks, corners, shots, longpasses.
Also for tricks. Rolandinho having alot easier timing requirements for the elastico then Nesta). YES, you would be able to attempt it with Nesta, but it would hardly ever pay off, which means that you would quickly give up the idea of trying it with him, making you play with him realistically (not going about doing the Elastico all the time). Also his technique skills would make him alot slower in doing it.
Atleast then people could atleast partially blame themselves when missing the goal if their timing was slightly off or the analog stick direction was a bit erronous. Of course if they are trying to score with Nesta, they had it coming.
So with this system, it is your skills (stick aim, power bar, timing precision) coupled with the controlled players natural skills and error margins (stats) that determine the outcome. Not some system that decided that you are going to miss the goal because it is 1-1 in the CL final and the game feels it would be more exciting if it went to overtime.
I just want a game where it would pay off playing it 2 hours everyday for a year, as oposed to only playing 1 hour a day for a year. THat would be the level of precision in the analog stick, power bar and the timing.
If 2 tennis players played against eachother, one having practiced 2 hours everyday the last year, and one having practiced 1 hour a day for the last year, the difference would be clear.
This is exactly what is wrong with games today, and this applies to PES aswell.
The game designers intentionally give you limited control possibilities to keep the absolute control with the game AI so that it can make matches more exciting. For example, keeping passing 8-way digital without any choice for power means the AI is free to make passes as good or as poor at it wishes, depending on where it feels the game should go.
The problem is that, if I am not myself causing the errors in a game (for example striking the passes too slowly due to the lack of pass power bar) , then there is nothing I can change to fix it.
So how do you fix this?
Well, in the example of PES and passing:
- Pass Powerbar
- Analog aiming (as high resolution as possible, 256 or more directions)
- SOme sort of timing skill required.
So, for a good pass, you need to:
- Handle the analog stick, so that the aim is right at your teammate. Remember, the player pass stats will "spread" the aim appropriately randomly so you need to be right on the money with the stick or else the ball could end up quite a long ways from the intended target).
- Know what power to get on the power bar. Too hard, and it might overshoot the target. Too soft, and it might get intercepted. Too hard, it will become difficult to receive. Etc etc.
- Some sort of timing device. This isn't usually in these sorts of lists, but I feel strongly about it. Consider old Golf games. You need to press a button to start the swing, then the button again at the appropriate power. THEN you need to time the last buttonpress so that the actual "hit" will be good.
The reason for the "timing" is that, unlike real sports where players get exhausted and, as a result, unaccurate during the match (or tennis game, whatever), a player sitting infront of a TV using a thumbstick, can become extremely accurate with his movements. So, only having the aim of a pass dependant on the analog stick direction can become too unrealistic.
With the "timing" factor, we have all of this:
- Analog stick determines direction
- Player pass stats determine how accurately the player can hit your intended direction.
- The "timing factor" will give you a further challenge in getting the ball to go where you want it to. Timing, signifying the quality of the ball hit, will affect both aim and power (a better hit giving more push to the ball).
AND, the best thing with this timing factor:
As the players becomes more and more tired (depletion of the stamina bar) during a game, it will become exceedingly difficult to get a good "timing". A button press with a timing that with a completely fresh player would have given an additional error margin of perhaps 8-10% on the aim, will with a depleted player give perhaps 20%. As players are getting more tired their muscle control worsens and they will have a harder time making their muscles perform the movement they want them to.
But, since KONAMI and everyone else wants their games to be instantly appealing, they can't be bothered to use systems where the player himself needs to practice.
WHich is a bit weird, since Golf games, like I mentioned, have in the past been all about timing and control. You needed to play the game alot to train yourself to time the shot just right, so that the hit was as close to perfect as possible.
And keep in mind, even though you perform everything perfectly (Stick Aim, Power, Timing) there is still the players stats working as a "master randomization" system. You can never become more accurate than the player stats allow you.
But, to prevent a player with 99 on all stats from becoming a machine when shooting and such, the "timing factor" needs to be made to be almost impossible to master completely. Again, stamina is a factor in it.
And, even if you have a completely fresh player, and you get perfect aim, power and timing, the stats system needs to be adjusted (preferably modelled after the real world) so that there is a substantial enough error margin even with all other things perfect.
If I made a football game, this is what I would use. What I feel is the perfect balance between AI (stats) influence and player interaction that can be practiced and honed to a large degree.
The timing system could also be for freekicks, corners, shots, longpasses.
Also for tricks. Rolandinho having alot easier timing requirements for the elastico then Nesta). YES, you would be able to attempt it with Nesta, but it would hardly ever pay off, which means that you would quickly give up the idea of trying it with him, making you play with him realistically (not going about doing the Elastico all the time). Also his technique skills would make him alot slower in doing it.
Atleast then people could atleast partially blame themselves when missing the goal if their timing was slightly off or the analog stick direction was a bit erronous. Of course if they are trying to score with Nesta, they had it coming.
So with this system, it is your skills (stick aim, power bar, timing precision) coupled with the controlled players natural skills and error margins (stats) that determine the outcome. Not some system that decided that you are going to miss the goal because it is 1-1 in the CL final and the game feels it would be more exciting if it went to overtime.
I just want a game where it would pay off playing it 2 hours everyday for a year, as oposed to only playing 1 hour a day for a year. THat would be the level of precision in the analog stick, power bar and the timing.
If 2 tennis players played against eachother, one having practiced 2 hours everyday the last year, and one having practiced 1 hour a day for the last year, the difference would be clear.
JayM
International
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Are the replays really that jumpy or is that just the video?
Are the replays really that jumpy or is that just the video?
Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
They aren't rotating a "free" camera, they are switching between different stationary sideline cameras at different angles and heights.
Looks really nice to me, gives it alot more TV feeling.
They aren't rotating a "free" camera, they are switching between different stationary sideline cameras at different angles and heights.
Looks really nice to me, gives it alot more TV feeling.
polakis
PES - FIFA Greek master
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Can i please pass the ball to whoever player i want during the goal kick and not only the center back?Mercy Konami. 10 years and they havent fixed it...
The game is good though...Better than pes6 in 360 at least
Can i please pass the ball to whoever player i want during the goal kick and not only the center back?Mercy Konami. 10 years and they havent fixed it...
The game is good though...Better than pes6 in 360 at least
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Trance_Allstar
I love lamp
- 18 March 2006
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
That is crap to me aswell. It's unbelievable they don't fix things like these.
Also, why isn't it possible to strike a longpass or "lofted throughball" when taking a direct-freekick. So far I've only seen players take ground-passes. WHat if you have a teammate up front in a great opportunity, but there is an opponent directly in the path. In real-life you just chip it over. In PES you seem limited to ground balls, which is absolutely retarded, and I can't believe KONAMI doesn't fix this aspect of the gameplay. Because it is so obvious that it can be done in real-life.
I suppose their AI is so crap the wntire game would fall apart if they implemented this because the defenders wouldn't know what to do. I hope to god it isn't because they haven't noticed it, because that would be saaaad. Really honestly sad.
That is crap to me aswell. It's unbelievable they don't fix things like these.
Also, why isn't it possible to strike a longpass or "lofted throughball" when taking a direct-freekick. So far I've only seen players take ground-passes. WHat if you have a teammate up front in a great opportunity, but there is an opponent directly in the path. In real-life you just chip it over. In PES you seem limited to ground balls, which is absolutely retarded, and I can't believe KONAMI doesn't fix this aspect of the gameplay. Because it is so obvious that it can be done in real-life.
I suppose their AI is so crap the wntire game would fall apart if they implemented this because the defenders wouldn't know what to do. I hope to god it isn't because they haven't noticed it, because that would be saaaad. Really honestly sad.
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stumpy_uk
League 2
- 11 December 2002
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
Agree with that 100% its a real pi55er of mine along with
Throw-ins.... why can't I throw it anywhere
and my current favourite large containers at the back of the net.. WTF is that all about I havn't seen any pitches with Nets like that but all of them have it on pes360 and now pes2008
I have to say the cut scenes are impressive and look very good, however I am not a fan of the cut scene and if I had a wishlist to retain the aspect when someone scores so you see them run to the flag followed by their team-mates etc as per live games would be on my list.
Agree with that 100% its a real pi55er of mine along with
Throw-ins.... why can't I throw it anywhere
and my current favourite large containers at the back of the net.. WTF is that all about I havn't seen any pitches with Nets like that but all of them have it on pes360 and now pes2008
I have to say the cut scenes are impressive and look very good, however I am not a fan of the cut scene and if I had a wishlist to retain the aspect when someone scores so you see them run to the flag followed by their team-mates etc as per live games would be on my list.
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)
.......
jesus!! Trance how long does it take you to write out one post? :shock: , I totally understand ur very valid points about the analogue passing/shooting, though, but it'll be a bitch to implement, imagine all the parameters that'll be programed to affect ONE pass made in a game especially if the player is in all the situations you penned down ala off balance, pressured, fatigued, etc :shock: ? Certainly Very complicated, but it'll be well worth every minute of coding for sure.... konami needs to see that post about the limited user control BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY..
Lol... she looks good from far but far from good..lol, but my thought were (like you said), good close up, shite from far, and what from middle? That was my question.Have'nt you ever seen a girl from a distance who looks fucking catwalk but then close up she's a complete fucking munter? I think it's like that the other way around,good close up,shite from afar.
....... jesus!! Trance how long does it take you to write out one post? :shock: , I totally understand ur very valid points about the analogue passing/shooting, though, but it'll be a bitch to implement, imagine all the parameters that'll be programed to affect ONE pass made in a game especially if the player is in all the situations you penned down ala off balance, pressured, fatigued, etc :shock: ? Certainly Very complicated, but it'll be well worth every minute of coding for sure.... konami needs to see that post about the limited user control BY ALL MEANS NECESSARY..
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