WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Uniqu3---89 said:
Yes , and pes has been under development for 18 month (unfinished) and looks like crap till now and fifa in 12 months looking good and finished ... nice :/
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EA have different development cycles and methods, staff useage and the way their code is shared through the entire corporation (wonder why all the GFX engines look the same). Time taken is irrelevent, because I guarentee EA has spent more man hours (and budget) on development.

Suddenly PES2008 looks 'crap' :lmao:
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

The Black Sheep said:
PES still has a month of development.
Fifa is finished.
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PES is finished gameplay wise as well. Only extras are to be added like the extra teames etc.

One thing that strikes me on this board is the blatant fanboyism towards a game. It's the same over at the FIFA forum. People dismiss the other game without and rationality.

I'm stunned that people in here are dismissing and putting down the animation in FIFA, it p's all over PES from a great height, that's not my opinion that's fact. If FIFA can sort out it's shooting mechanism and capture that PES intensity then I'm afraid FIFA 08 will take teh crown from PES once and for all. It's been catching up for 2 years now and Konami are still relying on an age old engine back from ISS. They need to move on but I really doubt they will apart from the usual polishing they do. No doubt in my mind EA is rewriting the genre the same way PES did over the likes of Sensible Soccer and Kick Off.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

JayD said:
I'm stunned that people in here are dismissing and putting down the animation in FIFA, it p's all over PES from a great height, that's not my opinion that's fact.
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Its not just the animation (very nice), its the translations, which can be seen to be jerky in the fifa skills video.

You seem to be getting opinion and fact mixed up.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Trance_Allstar said:
I know what you mean, it is easy to overreact.

But I know that for me personally, I am not overreacting, so to speak.


- Goalkeepers still do overhanded stupid-looking saves rather than using their "proper" hand (GC Official KONAMI video with C Ronaldo striking a freekick, the goalkeeper does it).

- Pace and tempo. I am not sure if this is just a trend, but both the FIFA08 and PES2008 videos all show the game being quicker than real life. In some respects I think they are accurate. FIFA showing Ronaldinho doing tricks for example; I have seen him do the elastico in matches, and his foot-movement is really quick. But in FIFA the transitions and overall tempo is too quick, everything he does is lightning fast, not justt he quick moves so to speak. There is no tempo variations that accentuate the quicker moves. Tempo needs to be maybe 70-80% of what it currently is. Since it is a game, atleast make it too slow rather than too fast (after all, there is an upper limit for human movements, but we can slow them down gradually in tempo until we aren't moving at all).

- Nets are way too springy, as mentioned. I mean, how hard is it to just shoot a real ball in a real net, and replicate that completely. It takes 1 second to see that the nets in PES2008 are way too springy, since the ball leaves them almost as quickly as they went in, which doesn't make any sense (if they were a brick wall or made or rubber maybe). They look good overall so why this aspect is lost beats me.

- The passing. After 4-5 years of this, I am almost completely tired of the automatic passing. The ball is auto-aimed at your teammates, and the power is beyond your control. Why are we settling this in a sport where everything is about how accurately you can aim and kick the ball? ISS had the right idea, and that was 10 years ago. Football Kingdom had the same idea, and that didn't last. Why should the passing be on a level where a 3-year old can play the game? I wonder how long before Halo forces automatic aim so as to be easy to pick up for 10-year olds.

- Penalties. Still no power bar (as seen in videos of the game), and no news of analog aim on penalties. WHich means they will be as pointless and skill-less as before. It's up to PES2008 to decide if Ronaldo will blow it wide just to piss you off.

- The "standing-still super shot". It was introduced in PES6. Why is it still there? I'd like to see anyone get that amount of power on a shot where you are completely stationary and just pulling back the leg. Power needs to be scaled down to somewhere like 70% of what it currently is (In PES6 it was actually even harder than some shots when you were running and shoting powerfully, which I suppose is further evidence how balloony and weak PES6 shots were at times).

- Overall tricks. This one is not confirmed yet. But I seriously hope they have made it possible to execute the Matthews feint while slow running (you couldn't do the drop-shoulder then in PES6, and the Matthwes feint is just a variation of that, which is perfect for doing while slowrunning before feinting and moving quickly in a direction). Also the Elastico needs to be possible when standing still, which PES6 disabled. You know, Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDEK48il4xM

Just off the top of my head.

Also if the elastico and moves like that are still hardcoded I am going to go mad. If I want to create myself as a player, I want to have all the tricks and such available to me when I create him. THat goes for all variations of drop-shoulders aswell. There are like 6 variations in the game, with different combinations forhow the player executes the feint (outside or inside with different combos), yet when you create a player in PES6 he is just randomly assigned with one animation. Do KONAMI think that if they set the elastico "free" someone will assign it to every player in the game or what?
Same goes for new moves like the "Heel Rush" of Drogba and Ronaldo (think that is the name).

So, I'm not happy yet. If this game cannot even implement some of the basic gameplay features that ISS98 had for the Nintendo64, I'm not going to become too excited.
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Great, great. :applause:

You are a lighthouse in PES Community.
You'll have my support ever.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

The Black Sheep said:
Its not just the animation (very nice), its the translations, which can be seen to be jerky in the fifa skills video.

You seem to be getting opinion and fact mixed up.
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watch here http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_4264_en.html

50 secs

a player chests the ball, watch the animation after this. the transition from the chest to a sprint. JERK.

it's the same on both games. not just fifa.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Has there been any additional news on the editing capabilities to be found in PES 2008?

Cheers
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

The Black Sheep said:
Its not just the animation (very nice), its the translations, which can be seen to be jerky in the fifa skills video.

You seem to be getting opinion and fact mixed up.
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I'm not. It's just I'm not blinkered enough to WANT one game to succedd over another. I hated FIFA from after the last incarnation on the Sega Megadrive up until 07' , I've been playing footy games since Emlyn Hughes way back on the Spectrum and they have always been my main type of game. I like good football games not based upon the brand but the game. Up until last year there was nothing to touch PES that's why that was my game of choice but now EA are pushing boundries again and are positively breathing life into the genre. FIFA 07 was good with way to many bugs to make in a complete experience UCL was a huge step in the right direction a good game and almost close to PES except for the shooting and cheap goals but teh progress was huge. Now with 08' the impressions are favourable and they may well have broken the PES hold this time and I'm unbiased enough to except that without feeling that my beloved PES has been surpassed.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

The Black Sheep said:
Like I said I agree....

I was replying to the "fifa pi$$es on PES from a great height", total rubbish.
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ah sorry. my mistake.

move along now, there's nothing to see here :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

FIFA's gameplay animation seems to be way improved.
Forget the skill video actually watch the game it looks much more fluid than PES this time.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Fifa looks great, 100 times better than PES2008 , if u dont see it than u re blind, gameplay , that is of course another story, I doubt Fifa will have better gameplay than PES , but will see, for now Fifa suprised me with graphic and movement
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

JayD said:
I'm not. It's just I'm not blinkered enough to WANT one game to succedd over another. I hated FIFA from after the last incarnation on the Sega Megadrive up until 07' , I've been playing footy games since Emlyn Hughes way back on the Spectrum and they have always been my main type of game. I like good football games not based upon the brand but the game. Up until last year there was nothing to touch PES that's why that was my game of choice but now EA are pushing boundries again and are positively breathing life into the genre. FIFA 07 was good with way to many bugs to make in a complete experience UCL was a huge step in the right direction a good game and almost close to PES except for the shooting and cheap goals but teh progress was huge. Now with 08' the impressions are favourable and they may well have broken the PES hold this time and I'm unbiased enough to except that without feeling that my beloved PES has been surpassed.
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Ahhh!! Emlyn Hughes... what a game... :D
I loved it.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

JayD said:
I'm not. It's just I'm not blinkered enough to WANT one game to succedd over another. I hated FIFA from after the last incarnation on the Sega Megadrive up until 07' , I've been playing footy games since Emlyn Hughes way back on the Spectrum and they have always been my main type of game. I like good football games not based upon the brand but the game. Up until last year there was nothing to touch PES that's why that was my game of choice but now EA are pushing boundries again and are positively breathing life into the genre. FIFA 07 was good with way to many bugs to make in a complete experience UCL was a huge step in the right direction a good game and almost close to PES except for the shooting and cheap goals but teh progress was huge. Now with 08' the impressions are favourable and they may well have broken the PES hold this time and I'm unbiased enough to except that without feeling that my beloved PES has been surpassed.
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A man after my own heart! I feel exactly the same having come from those heady days of emlyn hughes on the speccy! The only difference really is that I have a sort of soft spot for sony and Konami, but that is not going to stop me from liking and playing the "best footy game", whether that be PES or Fifa on PS or Xbox or PC.

Why cant people see that the first impressions from the fifa video are VERY good, much more than previous years. Of course this is inconclusive until we all try both with a hands on but the balanced view is that fifa is looking the most impresseive AT THIS STAGE of information released.

PLus I dont think the "Micro- analsysing" of each frame of animation of both games vids by certain posters here is very healthy to gaining a balanced opinion. If you look hard enough, you can see ( or not see) whatever you want.

Im getting bored now, see you all when we have the 2 games in our mitts
Adios!
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

For all of FIFA's talk about amazing tricks, I've just watched that 40-second clip of the England v Germany video and the passing is sublime. Lovely stuff, quick short passes and slow long passes, you can dictate the pace of the game so easily (and the speed of your passes). I was so worried that FIFA was going to be tricks and nothing else, exactly the same game as previous years - but there is a God because that is the most realistic passing system I've ever seen in a football game.

There's still a few things you can fault though, my main one from that video being - the England winger runs all the way to the byline and gets a cross in with hardly a challenge, and yet he seems to be moving quite slowly and the German defender doesn't seem bothered at all. But maybe that's because it's on 3-star or whatever.

I will play demos of both games, of course, because with FIFA you can never be sure, and PES's gameplay is a good standard. But for me that's just the same as going off now and putting PES3 into my PS2 - it'll be a good game because the gameplay is a good standard, but do I really want to buy it (and play it) again for the umpteenth year running? And sadly the answer is no.

We're now in the time of analog sticks (i.e. move/pass in more than eight directions), 32x the processing power (so no need for cheating AI, just clever AI that can beat you without having to resort to black magic), huge amounts of storage (so Konami, why not stop replacing teams and start adding them instead?) and real competition (it's not just FIFA's licenses that they have over Konami, the fatigue system is realistic, the player-run button so that your winger doesn't stop dead for no reason, the atmosphere is great, etc). All of this is what I want from a new PES and until then it will always be the old PES to me, and I'm not interested in that. I have enough of them already.

And if FIFA turns out to be shit, I can play Football Manager all year. :)
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

LOL Who remembers Peter Shilton: Handball Maradona. I love football games so much I even used to play that.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Han said:
Pitty enough I couldn't understand a word from the last blog-video, so I don't know what Adam and Suff's opinion were on the game.
Maybe we have to wait for more tomorrow.
A lot of people say it's virtually PES 6.1, but we cannot jugde that as long as we do not feel how the game plays.
I did read the Dutch InsideGamers report on their matches and they were pretty enthousiastic about the PS3 version, which was not be considered as good. So what should we believe?
Isn't there a difference between "looking the same as PES 6" and "being the same as PES 6" ?
What can you tell about the ML from a demo? Nothing.
What can you tell about TeamVision in a 1 vs 1 match? Not much.
What can we tell about the editing features from this demo? Nothing!
I think this demo only tells us how things play and how the graphics look.
Is that enough to condemn the game?
Not for me; I will wait for more info that we cannot find in this demo.
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That is just about the best post in this thread considering the scenario.

:applause:
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

i just noticed something really funny:P

in the video of insidegamer the game argentina - portugal there is a penalty. At the moment the penalty is going in.. you can hear adam
from WENB saying something like: aah come on you ...
and thats in the first gamevideo of the WENB website.

They played at the same time :D..

i know..not really something special but I'm getting bored.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

JESUS! Can we drop this whole FIFA is gonna be great thing allready? ¬_¬ This tread is called PES 2008 you know. You realy think FIFA is going to be great just because it looks better? Heh, mark my words "Same shit... different toilet"
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Good job the mods still like the game really ;)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Riggs_Rx said:
JESUS! Can we drop this whole FIFA is gonna be great thing allready? ¬_¬ This tread is called PES 2008 you know. You realy think FIFA is going to be great just because it looks better? Heh, mark my words "Same shit... different toilet"
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Better animation !! NEXT GEN ANIMATION
PES 2008 animation = PES 6 animation = Last GEN animantion !
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/22/07)

Jord@n, Nazzo, thanks :)
People react a bit premature in their opinion based on a limited demo :)
 
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