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WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

I'm not sure why they are even advertising at this stage anyway. Imagine the people seeing those boards, coming online to check out the new game and what do they get? A few shitty screenshots and a 15 second teaser.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

nazzo said:
Guys Sunderland vs Tottenham is on and there is a pes 2008 advertisement board.

When La Liga was liscened they adervertised Pes in the league...so can this be a sign that premier league is liscened?
Click to expand...
The ad isn't very clear, If i didn't know about the game i'd never be able to work out the 2008 in PES 2008.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

ieatfanboysforbreakfast said:
I'm not sure why they are even advertising at this stage anyway. Imagine the people seeing those boards, coming online to check out the new game and what do they get? A few shitty screenshots and a 15 second teaser.
Click to expand...

To build up anticipation and momentum for the game, now they need to back it up with a large tv presence.

There was a FIFA 08 adboard there too, what do you think they were there for?
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

pablocoo said:
Is this new Portugal kit?

portugalhomeshirtgf7.jpg


Why the hell on every picture and video of PES2008 it's PINK?
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Actualy the real color should be more like this pic:
75098026.jpg


The reason why I think it is pink'ish in the video, is because of bad encoding, the brightness is too high. even the Konami logo is more red'ish then usual.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The reason why I think it is pink'ish in the video, is because of bad encoding, the brightness is too high. even the Konami logo is more red'ish then usual.
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with the cartoon like player textures and colour palette, then.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

If the bad encoding fucks up the kits then yes, it also fucks up with the textures/pallettes.

Want proof? Here's one:

http://pesgames.googlepages.com/teaser1.jpg
Just look at the sky, that's what you get when you use low res settings. The irony... they make this "HD" trailer and use low settings. :P Btw, this also means less colors was used as well, otherwise the sky would look a lot smoother.

Here is proof of the brightness, I made this screenshot and used just one option in photoshop to bring it back to the original state:
compare1.jpg

(original screenshot)

compare2.jpg

(after applying auto-contrast option)

And even without photoshopping you can tell:
http://pesgames.googlepages.com/teaser2.jpg
Now compare that Turkey kit with this pic:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_Qp7Fv2WWaew/Rq4B58uzTZI/AAAAAAAAAYk/p974bCDyTJU/s1600-h/PES14.jpg

nuff said? :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

guys did anyone check on the last Fifa08 gameplay video i think the gameplay finally improved !! check game trailers to watch it :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Have they been posted before? I think the first may have been (the first stadium picture)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Might be the stadium editor :D could be the "preview stadium" option or something along those lines
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

thats Estadio do Dragao (FC Porto stadium)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Just look at the sky, that's what you get when you use low res settings. The irony... they make this "HD" trailer and use low settings. :P Btw, this also means less colors was used as well, otherwise the sky would look a lot smoother.

Here is proof of the brightness, I made this screenshot and used just one option in photoshop to bring it back to the original state:
Click to expand...

The screenshots with added contrast still look cartoony. It's absolutely nothing to do with the levels or contrast, it's the fact the player textures are poor and the colour palette is unrealistic.

Those stadium shots look pretty impressive though
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

I "think" the first pic was in a magazine some time ago as a small picture. The second one I have not seen before at all though. :)
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Thats it the first one was in a french mag, nice to see it in high res tho :D
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

drekkard said:
The control system in this game is the same since pes2. I'm astonished to see that a lot of pes fans can't understand how the game works. How all the passes, shots, etc... are decided by the CPU most of the time. Without freedom of pass (power and analog direction) and freedom to shoot (power and direction), this game is a waste of time, because there's no real skill involved at all. They game is no more a simulation, but an arcade, and that's why they now can sell to children and are selling millions of copies. And that's bad for us.

If you don't understand what a big majority of us consider "scripting" may be because you're unfamiliar with programming and games in general. By "scripted" we refer to the chopper crossing the sky just when you look through the window in any Call of Duty.

If you want to understand what means free ball physics (and pes has never had that, believe me), you'll have to understand that in PES the ball is always ASSIGNED to a target, that's why deflections, passes and any movement of the ball goes into the direction of an assignated player, and when you shoot you can only choose 3 directions more or less, so all the subtelties are performed buy the cpu.

My guess is that a lot of people just like the simplicity of the game. You pass the ball forward 2 or 3 times and you're already near ot the penalty box. You shoot and... mmmm, sometimes you score, sometimes not. And that's it more or less. You can play like that. Theorically, as there's no skill involved in passing, you should be able to pass perfectly through all of your teammates. Errors are decided by the CPU in a very lousy manner. The same to shoots, collision detection, etc...

Implementing manual shooting in the game would be very easy, no more than a couple of hours of programming and a week of testing. Really. Well, it's konami, let's make it 2 months. But my fear is that passing freedom is not supported by the engine and AI, they would have to recorde again a lot of ai-related scripts, and they won't.

The real talent of seabass was to make a good abstraction of his engine in the first installments, and creating a good game por that generation of consoles. But he is sticking to his formula that is not valid for next-gen. From pes3 to pes6 they have simply disguised the engine in different suits. If they do that again it will be very sad.
Click to expand...


Agreed completely. They are using the same shooting and passing system as PES for the PS1, which were released years ago.

FIFA has long since overtaken PES in terms of control (although some would claim that PES is for men and FIFA for children etc). FIFA has fully analog longpass aiming, and now looks to get Analog power and direction of throughballs in FIFA08.

And even if KONAMI implemented Analog aiming so that you can aim very carefully with the analog stick, you can still use the stats to vary the aim of the passing and shooting so that the game isn't mechanical. But I just can't stand passing without being able to decide how much power to give it etc. I have done it for 3-4 years now in PES, and nothing has happened, other than KONAMI slightly changing how the passes behave. But from the players' POV, the controls have not been enhanced at all. Still only 8-way digital and a buttonpress without a powerbar or time-decides-power system.

It worked 5 years ago, even 3 years ago, but now it just has to change.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Trance_Allstar said:
Agreed completely. They are using the same shooting and passing system as PES for the PS1, which were released years ago.
Click to expand...

I played that the other day. (PES on PS1) I consider myself an expert of PES. I tell you, the game was so different I basicaly didn't get a shot on goal. You don't know what you're talking about.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

Did anyone see the electronic adboards at the West Ham game?

At one point the whole pitch side was "PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER"
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

NickSCFC said:
Did anyone see the electronic adboards at the West Ham game?

At one point the whole pitch side was "PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER PRO EVOLUTION SOCCER"
Click to expand...

Knowing West Ham fans - they'll probably go out and buy Fifa then
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

airjoca said:
I played that the other day. (PES on PS1) I consider myself an expert of PES. I tell you, the game was so different I basicaly didn't get a shot on goal. You don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

You are taking me way too litterally, or not literally enough, one of those.

When I say "Shooting system" I mean the fact that you use 8 directions to aim. And when I say passing system, I mean that you have no influence over the power.

Don't get me wrong, they have constantly tweaked the passing and such. But in terms of how you use the controller, they haven't changed in 5-6 years. Shooting is still a matter of just pressing 1 of 8 directions, and then pressing the shot-button. Passing is still a amtter of pressing 1 of 8 directions, and then the pass-button.

In real-life every pass needs thinking over: Where do I need to strike the pass for my teammate to get it (if he is running, I need to aim infront of him for him to run onto it, but how far ahead of him).
How hard do I need to pass? Is he in balance so he can receive a hard pass, or do I need to strike it gently. Where is the opposition, will their forward be able to intercept it if I strike it as hard as I want to. Do I need to really put some power into it for the ball to reach the target at all?
What will my teammate do with he ball when he gets it. Will he try to do a 1-2 immediately. How soft does it need to be for him to be able to properly get a direct-touch on it.

That is how a simulation game would need to be. Where you need to constantly look for these things to get the most out of the passing.

When people complain about the passing, or analog aiming, or such, this is what I would like to believe they really want. Something that means that you need skill aswell, not jsut the player who is doing the passing. Obviously the player stats need to matter so that power and aim deviates more or less depending on who you are passing with. But currently passing in PES is 90 CPU, 10% Human.

The player stats is the players' abilities to execute what you want them to do. The problem is that currently, the players abilities rather affect a heavily filtered (analog stick input is run through an 8-way filter), heavily limited (no way to specify pass speed and power) version of what my intentions and wishes are. Instead of the fine subtle details, I can just say "Pass" or "Shoot". Not how hard or such, just those basic things.
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

Well the only thing they have done with the way you pass, is how your player is positioned with the ball, other wise it goes where you want the ball to go more or less, if you controlled the power and where you wanted to couldnt you make EVERY player make the perfect pass? Because then it would be down to you not the player, or his stats, no need for pass accuracy and power etc?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

has anyone noticed that:

1) the camera is HIGHER than in PES6
2) the pitch is LARGER than in PES6

I just compared the pictures at pag 196 of this topic vs what I see on my television with PES6

it looks to me we will have a (very positive IMO) jump in the past. WE7 (PES3) had both a higher camera and a larger pitch which allowed more realism and better overall game control
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

Seraphs21 said:
Well the only thing they have done with the way you pass, is how your player is positioned with the ball, other wise it goes where you want the ball to go more or less, if you controlled the power and where you wanted to couldnt you make EVERY player make the perfect pass? Because then it would be down to you not the player, or his stats, no need for pass accuracy and power etc?
Click to expand...

;)

"When people complain about the passing, or analog aiming, or such, this is what I would like to believe they really want. Something that means that you need skill aswell, not jsut the player who is doing the passing. Obviously the player stats need to matter so that power and aim deviates more or less depending on who you are passing with. But currently passing in PES is 90 CPU, 10% Human.

The player stats is the players' abilities to execute what you want them to do. The problem is that currently, the players abilities rather affect a heavily filtered (analog stick input is run through an 8-way filter), heavily limited (no way to specify pass speed and power) version of what my intentions and wishes are. Instead of the fine subtle details, I can just say "Pass" or "Shoot". Not how hard or such, just those basic things."


Player stats would still mean alot, but they would influence the very precice wishes we could input with the analog stick (rather than influencing the crude inputs of the digital pad that ofter have very little left of the direction I wanted the ball to go in).


If I could aim where I wanted the ball to go very precisely with the analog stick, and the player then completely misshits due to poor balance for example, then that is the exact way it is done in real life. The analog stick is the direction we want to aim (for example just by the post) whilst the player then has to have the skill to peoperly execute it. But if I want to put it in the top corner I want to be able to aim there, not just in that general direction. As was in my post above. ;)
 
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Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

gsvelto said:
has anyone noticed that:

1) the camera is HIGHER than in PES6
2) the pitch is LARGER than in PES6

I just compared the pictures at pag 196 of this topic vs what I see on my television with PES6

it looks to me we will have a (very positive IMO) jump in the past. WE7 (PES3) had both a higher camera and a larger pitch which allowed more realism and better overall game control
Click to expand...


That is good news. But I hope they give us camera controls for zoom and height. I always want to see as much of the pitch as possible.
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

So then scripts in theory still need to be used as they would need to allow the player pass at such a certain strength that his stats allow him? Accuracy I guess you mean that the higher the more certain it wont stray where you aimed, and power obviously the limiting factor of how hard you hit the ball?
 
Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/12/07)

Seraphs21 said:
So then scripts in theory still need to be used as they would need to allow the player pass at such a certain strength that his stats allow him? Accuracy I guess you mean that the higher the more certain it wont stray where you aimed, and power obviously the limiting factor of how hard you hit the ball?
Click to expand...
I think this is not scripting in the negative sense we always mean when the CPU seem to cheat. This is part of the AI. Using parameters to let the player play according his attributes.
 
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