WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread

[Putuco Malo]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

I don't think so. Probably it will be a port problem, and it won't reach the final version. Sorry...

[sarcasm mode off]

 

[untitled44]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The proof is that the gameplay hasn't changed in 5 years yet people keep buying Konami's data updates.

The gameplay has changed a lot!! i can't play pes 5 (we 9)
cause it's so different then pes 6 (we 10).
Lets not exadurate shall we!!

 

[winston]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Anything useful in this articla (calling dutch speakers) from level7.nu

http://level7.nu/texter/read.php?id=146085
PES 2008
Förra årets Xbox 360-version var ett rån. Det erkänner Konami i stort sett själva. 360-ägarna fick bara en bråkdel av vad PS2-ägarna fick och även om det var lite snyggare och en liten annan bollkontroll och spelar-AI så var det undermåligt. Att det ändå sålde hyfsat var egentligen synd. Fler borde satt ner foten och visat lite konsumentmakt.

Nu är den andra versionen till 360 här och i år har den fått mer tid av Konamis programmerare. I stort sett får vi allt som var med i PES6 till PS2 förra året plus några små finesser och ytterligare förbättringar i spelet på plan. Jag spelade en ofärdig version som kommer att finslipas ytterligare, men det mesta av nyheterna var med och den fungerar absolut som ett riktmärke om hur den slutgiltiga versionen kommer vara.

Glöm Premier League
En av de viktigaste frågorna gäller som vanligt licenserna. Utifrån vad jag såg fanns det med samma landslag och klubblag som i PS2-versionen. Det är tråkigt att inte Djurgården eller fler lag från Bundesliga eller Premier League är licensierade. Men nu tar vi det här en gång till, så att alla kanske kommer ihåg det till nästa år; Premier League kommer inte vara licensierat i PES förrän tidigast 2011 eftersom EA äger rättigheterna till ligan och de flesta lagen. Konami kan försöka få med något lag från de ligorna om de förhandlar väl, men räkna inte med fler än max tre lag sammanlagt från dem fram till tidigast 2011. I år verkar det som att det blir Manchester United och Newcastle eftersom Cristiano Ronaldo är omslagspojke i Europa och Owen är med på omslaget i England.

Samma sak med de nordiska och svenska lagen; räkna inte med att fler än kanske en handfull lag tillkommer från hela Norden till nästa år. Jag tycker det är lika dåligt som ni, men nu vet ni hur det ligger till.

För att råda bot på den här bristen finns det nu ............



etc

I used to speak a little Swedish, so let me try and translate.


























Ok, I give up.



:-\"

 

[cesarpo]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

yup, i win allways on 'top player' in pes 6 but when i try to play in pes 3 its totally different, i cant even draw.

Also some aspects of the gameplay in pes3 are a lot better than pes 6.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Are the buttons you press any different, is the control system any different?

All that has changed is the animation, the gameplay is still the scripted mess it was 5 years ago.

 

[Shieldsy]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Are the buttons you press any different, is the control system any different?

All that has changed is the animation, the gameplay is still the scripted mess it was 5 years ago.

Changing the Buttons every year would be a bit confusing dont you think. The buttons you press is the same as the control system...:applause:

And this year's edition is hardly scripted at all, thanks to Teamvision. Its a computer game, it must be scripted in some way.

 

[winston]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The buttons you press is the same as the control system...:applause:

The implementation of full 360 directional control and analgue passing/shooting power and direction would require the use of the same buttons, but be a new control system.

Its a computer game, it must be scripted in some way.

Please elaborate.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The implementation of full 360 directional control and analgue passing/shooting power and direction would require the use of the same buttons, but be a new control system.

I would have thought that was obvious, thanks for putting it in laymen's terms Winston.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

And this year's edition is hardly scripted at all, thanks to Teamvision.

So you've played the game then I gather?

It's nice to know not a single magazine/review has noticed "TeamVision" yet but you say it has completely replaced the scripted aspects of the game.

So far all the evidence suggests it is just another way that the CPU will make the game more difficult i.e. cheat you more.

 

[Shieldsy]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The implementation of full 360 directional control and analgue passing/shooting power and direction would require the use of the same buttons, but be a new control system.

Yes, but you would still use the same controls to do the same things, regardless of how many directions you could turn in.

Please elaborate.

People have to write the code, making the AI do X when situation Y happens. Sure there can be different outcomes, but it is still in a script.

So you've played the game then I gather?

You gather incorrectly. Please read first. I never said this.

It's nice to know not a single magazine/review has noticed "TeamVision" yet but you say it has completely replaced the scripted aspects of the game.

I say that based on articles i have read, which state that TeamVision reduces the need for much scripting. Maybe you should learn to read...

So far all the evidence suggests it is just another way that the CPU will make the game more difficult i.e. cheat you more.

If you believe the computer cheats you...then Oh Dear. Play something else if you're not satisfied. Looks like all you want to do is say how rubbish the game is. Unless you have something constructive to say, go back to FIFA, although im sure the people in their forums will get sick of you too...

 

[djdoc]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Jesus why is it when we constructively criticise PES everyone tells us to play FIFA? We are not saying PES is complete shit and that FIFA is better. We are just saying there are flaws with PES and its about time people noticed it, got on Konami's back about it and for them to overhaul the game engine for once.

 

[samba2]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

People have to write the code, making the AI do X when situation Y happens. Sure there can be different outcomes, but it is still in a script.

Shieldsly please dont get defensive about this but I am surprised that you havent noticed this.I think we are all aware that the CPU "cheats" and , correct me if I am wrong winston, he is referring to the programmed "scripts" whatever you want to call them that more often than not seems to favour the cpu, especially in ML games.

That is if X = good outcome for player, Y = good outcome for cpu, then whenever A, B or c etc happens, then it often ( not always) that the outcome is = Y.

Like when you are all over a side in the ML and change after chance goes over the bar, wide etc and they have one chance and it flies in. I think Seabass have even admitted that he programs "drama" into matches.

Some of us have learnt to live with this "scripting/cheating/favouritism" and some others like winston clearly cannot and want to live with it. Thats their perogative. But at the end of the day I would rather that it was I that created the drama myself by - my bad skill, or choice of formation, substitutions, button mashing, and not feel denied goals because the cpu decided beforehand to make me lose.


Before you accuse me of being a fifa fanboy, as most here will testify I am very pro- PES (heck we ALL are pro-PES, thats why we are here! And if any of us arent pro-PES, am not quite sure what they are doing here!!) and truly believe in Seabass vision and the goodthings that we have in the game, but I DO acknowlege the bad points, but feel the good outweigh the bad overall. However that is not to say I go all dewy eyeed whenever seabass is mentioned as I always feel it can be improved and the niggles need to ironed out.

 

[Shieldsy]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Im not going to get defensive at all, and i agree that the AI can be annoying. I also do not call all people who critisize PES a FIFA Fanboy, as everybody is aware that the game has problems. But, all that guy does, ieatfanboyblahblahblah, is critisize the game and he is better off just not being here, or even playing the game if he dislikes it that much. Unfortunately, he seems to have problems (in the head) so i have decided it is better to just ignore him.

Another word on the AI "cheating"; im not denying that when a team has many shots on goal and then another team goes and scores with one shot, it is unfair - infact, often ive wondered if the game almost decides the outcome before the ball is kicked - but often people remember bad things, so many people saying this may have a tendancy to complain when they have many shots and lose, but not when they are on the defensive for the whole game and score with one lucky shot at the end. Hopefully, though, this part of the game will all be removed in the next installment and games develop based on what is happening, not on some sort of pre-determined "script".

 

[Lami]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

CPU cheats no doubt but its sad how its been exaggerated about. If CPU cheats that much then i would never have won every league and cup game year in year out. Seriously it gets too boring. I'd prefer if Konami makes a truely Intelligent AI, rather than the "useless" cheating one we already have. Sometimes i actually wish CPU cheating is effective, then i'd lose more often.

 

[liv21]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

CPU cheats no doubt but its sad how its been exaggerated about. If CPU cheats that much then i would never have won every league and cup game year in year out. Seriously it gets too boring. I'd prefer if Konami makes a truely Intelligent AI, rather than the "useless" cheating one we already have. Sometimes i actually wish CPU cheating is effective, then i'd lose more often.

I agree with Lami totally. I wish the COM would cheat more because I constantly kick it's ass and I don't stock my team with all of the superstar studs. I start off with the default hard-ons and then build my team with young players that I don't even know. I usually getted kicked around a bit in the first D2 season but then I build a powerhouse and win everything.
I know that I'm in the minority here but I play ML almost exclusively and I don't get really bored. I play until the next version comes out. I was in 2025 in WE/PES 2007 when JL WE 2007CC came out and I started playing that. I enjoy seeing the developement of players that I chose as youngsters and seeing them become stars.
Don't get me wrong I think that ML is a bit thin and if they could add the proper league structure and a true manager mode aspect to it, I think it would be an awesome career mode.
I truly hope that the ML has been overhauled for the Ps3/360 and that is the big secret that will be revealed at Leipzig.
Sorry this post is so long but wanted to get some stuff off my chest.
I think we all just want the best videogame football experience possible. At least I hope that's what everyone here wants.

 

[ronaldo10]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

no what some people in here want is slating this game to death

 

[Seraphs21]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

LOL Whoever said the gameplay hasnt changed in 5 years has no idea... Each game is different, you saying 5 years or games, that means you think PES6 isnt different to PES2.

PES1 is definately majorly different to PES2, and PES2 was much different to PES3, as I remember PES3 was much slower, then PES4 was a bit faster, shooting was different aswell, PES5 changed again, especially the passing, and then PES6 basically smoothed things up, but personally I think they fecked up the lob lol, the chip is good, and realistic, but the lobs crap, probably is just me and my aim, but easy thing to do is blame the game, eg DJdoc stylee Doesnt require much braincells to blame the game either

Mexican wave is well cool especially if your using a low camera, and can see the crowd, may not see it, but it will be one of those things your like hey did you see that, and replay it or something.

Seriously though, if they fans mouths arent moving while they are chanting I aint playing the game, ill buy it though!

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

LOL Whoever said the gameplay hasnt changed in 5 years has no idea... Each game is different, you saying 5 years or games, that means you think PES6 isnt different to PES2.

I probably have more idea than you, as well as the ability to use proper grammar. To clarify, I said the gameplay hasn't changed. Animations, tweaks, graphical changes and tiny alterations in the speed of shooting/passing does not constitute a fundamental change in the gameplay. It is still heavily scripted, still riddled by woeful AI and the control system is now archaic.

as I remember PES3 was much slower, then PES4 was a bit faster

So a few new animations, tweak the speed a touch and that is completely different is it? I have seen no evolution in actual gameplay in the past five years, in terms of intelligent player movement and making the game more organic and less scripted. We are still inebriated by the digital control system and it looks like another data update with a couple of new animations this year. That might be good enough for you but it's not good enough for me. The fact a game like Football Kingdom released years ago is more intuitive, organic and in a way realistic makes me deeply annoyed.

Mexican wave is well cool especially if your using a low camera, and can see the crowd, may not see it, but it will be one of those things your like hey did you see that, and replay it or something.

Yeh you might replay it, what, once? If you like that kind of thing? Most people will probably never even notice it. It is a COMPLETE waste of time. A kick in the face to everyone who wants to see a real evolution in gameplay, because instead of working towards that they are faggoting about with ridiculous additions like pub scenes and Mexican waves.

 

[Oli]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The gameplay site says its out on October 5th? Has this been confirmed by Konami?

 

[Ace Consciousness]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

so many fuking whining ass bitches in here...

STFU WE is the best game on earth....If you disagree, GTFO

 

[Seraphs21]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Who cares about grammar its the day and age of text talk I can make words up like bbt which is short for some fancy phrase, who really cares

You say mexican wave is a COMPLETE waste, yet you said before that you might replay it once or twice, contradictive terms, NICE!

Lol a game? Organic? Haha, 360 movement might be ok, wont really change much of the gameplay will it, only lets you move around in a circle better lol

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Who cares about grammar its the day and age of text talk I can make words up like bbt which is short for some fancy phrase, who really cares

You say mexican wave is a COMPLETE waste, yet you said before that you might replay it once or twice, contradictive terms, NICE!

Lol a game? Organic? Haha, 360 movement might be ok, wont really change much of the gameplay will it, only lets you move around in a circle better lol

I guess you are about 15. Go away and learn the meaning of the word contradiction. I said you might replay it once if you like that kind of thing, which I don't, ergo I wouldn't replay it at all. LOlzz!!1

Lol a game? Organic?

It might be difficult for you to understand but organic is a word that can be applied to more than just a section of the supermarket you may have noticed when shopping with mummy. I hope if she lets you push the trolley you'll only be moving it in 8 directions.

 

[Seraphs21]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Well to be fair, you say complete waste, complete meaning fully? correct? If its fully not useful, why replay it atleast once, therefore not fully completely useless, hence you have said one thing, going against what you said later, hence the contradiction? No?

You said yeah you might replay it, you could mean anyone

Organic, generally linked to things of carbon based atoms? or LIVING things? dont think the players on pro evo are, thought they are rendered with pixels or something...

...oh and dont forget it can also be fertiliser

Back on topic though, what day is liepzig (sorry if I spelt it wrong) and also is this al confirmed that the picture taking edit thing for players wont be on the PS3 version? Will the PS2 have as good edit mode to certain degree too? Or will it be the same as previous, besides newer templates etc?

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

Ok perhaps I should have said a COMPLETE waste of time to anyone with a shred of intelligence. By the way, the crowd has always been static with some basic and horrendous animation every now and again, does that mean it will be completely re-animated now? Imagine the work involved in that, contemplate how much better the game might be if they put that time into developing the graphics or gameplay, then reconsider whether it is a waste of time.

Organic, generally linked to things of carbon based atoms? or LIVING things? dont think the players on pro evo are, thought they are rendered with pixels or something?

Generally, correct, but there are about 15 different definitions/usages. Why are you even commenting on what words people choose to use when you can barely string a coherent sentence together yourself, stones, glass houses etc.

I'm not going to comment on this again because it isn't even confirmed, but you are desperately trying to defend Konami and the desperation is obvious.

Well to be fair, you say complete waste, complete meaning fully? correct? If its fully not useful, why replay it atleast once, therefore not fully completely useless, hence you have said one thing, going against what you said later,

I rest my case. You simply can not defend the addition of things like pub scenes and mexican waves when there are so many flaws in the actual gameplay.

 

[Seraphs21]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

I dont defend Konami, they do what they want, im just here for the game.

You rest your case about what? I wasnt even talking about the game there, whats that got to do with me defending the game, I didnt even mention PES once, I personally like the mexican wave and pub scenes, also its nice to know that other people will like it (as some like the little bits) and they will like the game a little more. I wouldnt care much if it was or wasnt there tbh, but its a nice addition, I think positively about these little things though. I think it can add a bit more depth to the atmosphere, and make you feel more for your ml team, playing for your fans etc (even though they are only game fans haha )

You havent even heard much about the gameplay to go off on one about it, wait for a video and until you play it, everyones opinion and tastes are different, another mans gold is another mans poison... just wait and see...

Is it confirmed they will definately not be bringing back the 360 movement anyway?

 

[Butters11]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

To be honest I couldn't care less about this proposed mexican wave.

I would love to see some more realistic crowds though. Maybe their heads could follow play a little more instead of what you see them doing in replays now on 360.

Also some animations of the crowd going mad after a goal is scored would be very nice.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

I would love to see some more realistic crowds though. Maybe their heads could follow play a little more instead of what you see them doing in replays now on 360.

Also some animations of the crowd going mad after a goal is scored would be very nice.

Agreed, I could definitely appreciate that. Mexican waves though, how often do you see that in a football match? How often do you see a crowd all looking in exactly the same direction which happens to be towards some random location no-where close to the action on the pitch.

 

[drekkard]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The control system in this game is the same since pes2. I'm astonished to see that a lot of pes fans can't understand how the game works. How all the passes, shots, etc... are decided by the CPU most of the time. Without freedom of pass (power and analog direction) and freedom to shoot (power and direction), this game is a waste of time, because there's no real skill involved at all. They game is no more a simulation, but an arcade, and that's why they now can sell to children and are selling millions of copies. And that's bad for us.

If you don't understand what a big majority of us consider "scripting" may be because you're unfamiliar with programming and games in general. By "scripted" we refer to the chopper crossing the sky just when you look through the window in any Call of Duty.

If you want to understand what means free ball physics (and pes has never had that, believe me), you'll have to understand that in PES the ball is always ASSIGNED to a target, that's why deflections, passes and any movement of the ball goes into the direction of an assignated player, and when you shoot you can only choose 3 directions more or less, so all the subtelties are performed buy the cpu.

My guess is that a lot of people just like the simplicity of the game. You pass the ball forward 2 or 3 times and you're already near ot the penalty box. You shoot and... mmmm, sometimes you score, sometimes not. And that's it more or less. You can play like that. Theorically, as there's no skill involved in passing, you should be able to pass perfectly through all of your teammates. Errors are decided by the CPU in a very lousy manner. The same to shoots, collision detection, etc...

Implementing manual shooting in the game would be very easy, no more than a couple of hours of programming and a week of testing. Really. Well, it's konami, let's make it 2 months. But my fear is that passing freedom is not supported by the engine and AI, they would have to recorde again a lot of ai-related scripts, and they won't.

The real talent of seabass was to make a good abstraction of his engine in the first installments, and creating a good game por that generation of consoles. But he is sticking to his formula that is not valid for next-gen. From pes3 to pes6 they have simply disguised the engine in different suits. If they do that again it will be very sad.

 

[ieatfanboysforbreakfast]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

That is an absolutely phenomenal post, thanks drekkard. I think it sums up exactly what most of us have been saying for a long time now and the people who come up with comments like "Go play FIFA then" and "don't comment until you've played it" should take a long hard look at those comments.

 

[pepe montoto]

Re: WE/PES 2008 Next Gen - Discussions Thread (Last Update 08/08/07)

The control system in this game is the same since pes2. I'm astonished to see that a lot of pes fans can't understand how the game works. How all the passes, shots, etc... are decided by the CPU most of the time. Without freedom of pass (power and analog direction) and freedom to shoot (power and direction), this game is a waste of time, because there's no real skill involved at all. They game is no more a simulation, but an arcade, and that's why they now can sell to children and are selling millions of copies. And that's bad for us.

If you don't understand what a big majority of us consider "scripting" may be because you're unfamiliar with programming and games in general. By "scripted" we refer to the chopper crossing the sky just when you look through the window in any Call of Duty.

If you want to understand what means free ball physics (and pes has never had that, believe me), you'll have to understand that in PES the ball is always ASSIGNED to a target, that's why deflections, passes and any movement of the ball goes into the direction of an assignated player, and when you shoot you can only choose 3 directions more or less, so all the subtelties are performed buy the cpu.

My guess is that a lot of people just like the simplicity of the game. You pass the ball forward 2 or 3 times and you're already near ot the penalty box. You shoot and... mmmm, sometimes you score, sometimes not. And that's it more or less. You can play like that. Theorically, as there's no skill involved in passing, you should be able to pass perfectly through all of your teammates. Errors are decided by the CPU in a very lousy manner. The same to shoots, collision detection, etc...

Implementing manual shooting in the game would be very easy, no more than a couple of hours of programming and a week of testing. Really. Well, it's konami, let's make it 2 months. But my fear is that passing freedom is not supported by the engine and AI, they would have to recorde again a lot of ai-related scripts, and they won't.

The real talent of seabass was to make a good abstraction of his engine in the first installments, and creating a good game por that generation of consoles. But he is sticking to his formula that is not valid for next-gen. From pes3 to pes6 they have simply disguised the engine in different suits. If they do that again it will be very sad.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: