UEFA Champions League 05/06 Thread

Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Very sad with this final.

The 2 teams who didn't deserve to get there meet in the final.

Milan, which I loved in the 80s and 90s are nowadays, like so many other italian sides, a team that plays a coward soccer style, which amuses no one. Remembering Milan vs Inter clashes in CL make me wan't to sleep already. Serie A is, due to the coward mentality around, the biggest waste of player talent you can find.

As for Liverpool, what a credit: they found the key to stop mourinho's chelsea "let's park the bus just like Manchester City did this year and hope it all gets settled by the phantom goal".

Hardly 2 real champion teams.. maybe 2 champions of... negative soccer.
 
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Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Cruijff has played for Milan for sure. On Dutch television they showed a picture of him in a Milan-shirt.

Known for "anti-football" are Germany and Greece (Euro 2004). Should we add Italian clubs to that? Now, the CL-final is Liverpool-AC Milan. This shows that playing boring, but sadly effective football rewards richly. Maybe that's why it's tempting to play it.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

You make it sound as if its easy to play attractive football....

PSV didnt necessarily play beautifully to end Lyon's amazing run, infact PSV were quite disappointing in some group matches. Thats what i thought.

There are many teams who play pretty, but fail. Would you call Bayern or Porto's CL run last year and in 2001 attractive football? What about the Korea of 2002? or the Monaco last year, PSV and AZ of this year, Roma in Serie A, Maradona's Napoli in 1993, and the pretty Valencia of 2002. These are just a few teams. You can label Monaco as the best team in Europe last year for the way they handled their football. Teams that play attractive always have to sacrifice something to play pretty football, you have many exceptions, but in the recent years its been the case - well thats what i think.

I dont think its easy to play pretty for 90 minutes and expect to constantly win. The last 10 minutes when Milan scored against PSV, their attractiveness began to fade a little as it was clear that they were tired, which again shows that trying to hold up a nice game is difficult - this resulted in Ambrosini's goal.

What you call 'anti football' teams seem to play a match and achieve what they want. Its like getting straight to the point. Do you think Greece really cared if they were beautiful against the Czechs? They wanted glory, and got glory.

.... i dont know if this makes sense so im just goingt to stop there.

btw-

Last season i seriously thought Milan and Arsenal were going to meet in the final because they both impressed me with what i thought was beautiful football all season, but they both got eliminated in the same stage.
 
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Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

My friend,

The same discussion took place when Italia got the deserved boot in Euro 2004.

Italians will never learn. They always go for this. The only times when we can expect an italian club to play consistently atractive soccer is when the influence of a foreign coach/player is too strong, like in the days of Milan of the 3 dutchmen.

I'm not here to discuss attractive vs effectivness. When I sit at the TV I wanna see a GOOD game, not a game were a team shows me, in the last minute, how effective its negative soccer can be.

About Porto and Mourinho.. plz don't even compare! Porto had a LOT of super games in the past 2 years with mourinho.. don't you remember Lazio spanking in UEFA 4-0? Even last years final, you can't put Porto in the same league... Mourinho knows how to play defensively and how to play offense, just check this year with chelsea, were in the world did milan, juve or inter deliver a performance like barcelona and chelsea at stanford bridge?

Conclusion: you can achieve your goals playing nice beatiful soccer. Italian soccer seems to have learned how to miss their goals playing unatractive soccer (last 2,3 years havent really been that good to both italian clubs and national).
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Well 2 years ago you had an Italian team win the CL. Would you classify last year's Greeks as attractive?
 
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Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

That's what I was saying. Anti-Football teams win the prizes most of the time, and get the glory on the lists later. In the books, the ugly team will get "CL winners 2004/2005" behind their name. The good team will never get "Played well, but lost" in the books. Everybody forgets about losers after some time.

PSV was not that good in the beginning, that's true. But they grew, and played their best games against AC. The best game sin the semi's. But will anybody remember that? Good football needs luck to have succes. Effective football doesn't. I label the Czech Republic as winners of EURO 2004. And I'm sure many others do that as well. But the glorious story turns into a Greek (bad joke) tragedy with being knocked out.

In short, I agree with you, Milanista.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

looking at the quality of the game, I agree Cruijff the Czechs deserved it! But Portugal were also on the same level! :) :)

It's sad, but true... italian teams tend to use defensive footie alot to win!
Every now and then we get the chance to see a game between italian teams that is really worth watching, I stil remember that fantastic Seria A match, about 4 years ago, between Inter and Milan that ended 4-3 to Milan (if not mistaken).
Italian footballers and the players that play on Serie A have all undeniable capabilities to play great footie. It's just the mentality of generations that ruins it! Of course it depends on the people.

Milanista for example, born in italy, likes to watch those type of games...
on the other hand an english hates this type of footie, prefers open game, and long balls, and from my perspective I hate seeing teams play long balls. I love a good mix between Dutch style and latino style... (Spanish, Portuguese, Brazilian) the ball on the ground. It's a matter of taste!
Dunno why but I always liked to watch the dutch style of play!

When you say that people remember only the ones that win, maybe true, but even those are forgotten, the ones that are really remembered are the ones that win AND play attacking, beautifull footie. I bet most of you don't remember not even a quarter of the winners of the CL in last 2 decades... but everyone surely remember the super milan with the dutch... and everybody remembers the super dutch national team in the Euro Cup, and that marvellous goal be Van Basten. I'm sure people remember that dramatic CL final won in the last minute... (not even gonna say between who, cause you all know it).
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

You're still talking about Champions League right? Because I think the leagues dont reflect European performance - and my argument is related to European competitions. For instance last weekend the Serie A had 44 goals scored in 2 days.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

we are with milan this match at istanbul, come on MILAN ( fenerbahce fans are in your back )
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Wrong, I know a Fenerbahce fan called Bob who is rooting for Liverpool.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

ClassicD said:
Wrong, I know a Fenerbahce fan called Bob who is rooting for Liverpool.
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i was talkinga bout overall fans - not one or two your friends, if milan wins its advantage to us fenerbahce fans, we'll go directly to CL, i dont know if your friend just support liverpool :roll:
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Nah Bob is a big Fener fan but he hates Milan. I don't know why you say that about the CL anyway as Liverpool won't qualify for it even if they win, both UEFA and the FA have said they must finish in the top 4 in the EPL to make it so this result has no bearing on any other club. :roll:
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

i say if milan wins the championship, we ( fenerbahce ) will qualify directly do CL --- bob ?? :D
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

But that's only the case if Liverpool make it into the CL, it's nothing to do with how Milan get on. And as Liverpool can only make it into the CL by finishing in the top 4 of their domestic league, it makes no sense to support Milan.

Bob say's you're full of shit :).
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

fuck bob and liverpool, who da fuck is BOB , we will wear our milan jersey's and goto the match and milan will win anyways :D
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Revan, the super "Dutch" Milan where winners. Van Basten was topscorer of the Serie A in 1988. The Dutch team of '88 is still remembered, for they where winners. And good bunch of them. Truely the best in their field, and one of the few just winners in European tournaments last year.

I wasn't completely right about the losers/winners theory; sometimes there is a team so great, that it made an enourmous impact on football. And even today, 31 years after it preformed, it is remembered. I'm talking about the Dutch team of 1974. I never spoke to anybody who said that Germany deserved the win that year.

Since we suddenly get to speak for an entire group of supporters, I guess I'll say something for the entire PSV-club: "Better luck next year. We hope." And Bob rules.

Back to the CL. During the match, I made the mistake of going to the official UEFA chatroom for PSV-AC. There was this guy with the nickname AC Milan. His message screamed "WE ALWAYS WIN!". Even though PSV was leading with 2-0, I feared he was right.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Heres a famous moment - The Milan of 1994 - the one that beat Cruijff's Barcelona 4-0. Thats not football, thats cinema imo. The dutch trio was over, but we had the serbian legend Savicevic, the young Maldini, the young desially, the young boban, the young albertini, costacurta and Baresi *unfortunately he was suspended for getting a yellow the game before*. But that game was where Milan were the underdogs.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

In those days Milan played soccer like it doesn't play today although.. it has the potencial. But not the will. Ancellotti is the perfect example of how coward italian managers can be.

Take the example of Trapatoni... a PERFECT example. The most condecorated manager of italian soccer made his career playing unatractive, defensive, cautious soccer. Now, benfica fans might cry his defensive style, as they might loose an almost won title due to Trap's cowardice.

Italian soccer mentality sucks big time.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Milanista said:
You're still talking about Champions League right? Because I think the leagues dont reflect European performance - and my argument is related to European competitions. For instance last weekend the Serie A had 44 goals scored in 2 days.
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You'r right about the performances of the CL versus league... Liverpool is the perfect example! :p
My point is that Italian teams have the potential of playing a much more appealling football than they do today, cause in the Seria A there are lots of great players and some of the best around.
Of course it's not all the time.
And it still pisses me off going home, and thinkin "uuu big game between Milan-Juve(for example) today" And All i see is the 24 players defending, and rarely a chance of goal. My point is that big derbies is not equal to a good game. Well you will probably disagree, and I haven't see many of the big games this year of the Serie A, because whenever I get to see them I always get an 0-0 result. Maybe my bad luck! :p
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Cruijff said:
Cruijff has played for Milan for sure. On Dutch television they showed a picture of him in a Milan-shirt.

Known for "anti-football" are Germany and Greece (Euro 2004). Should we add Italian clubs to that? Now, the CL-final is Liverpool-AC Milan. This shows that playing boring, but sadly effective football rewards richly. Maybe that's why it's tempting to play it.
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Cruijff played for Milan? That was a joke, please tell me. I've not taken the time to read this whole discussion, but tell me it was a joke, please.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Revan said:
And All i see is the 24 players defending...
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Though I agree with your viewpoints on this matter, I do wonder where you get those 2 extra players from... :P

joostebrood said:
Cruijff played for Milan? That was a joke, please tell me. I've not taken the time to read this whole discussion, but tell me it was a joke, please.
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No joke. In the last month of his carreer as a player he has played for Milan. But not really on contract, more as a freelancer for one game. Cruijff himself said he totally forgot he ever played there, so his role there has been very insignificant.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Cruijff said:
I wasn't completely right about the losers/winners theory; sometimes there is a team so great, that it made an enourmous impact on football. And even today, 31 years after it preformed, it is remembered. I'm talking about the Dutch team of 1974. I never spoke to anybody who said that Germany deserved the win that year.
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That team indeed is legendary...BUT: they only qualified for that WC because of a referee error.
In the last minute of the second match against Belgium (and that was the last match in the group) Jan Verheyen scored a perfect regular goal...the Russian referee ruled it out for supposed off-side...
Belgium should have played that WC...

The Dutch took their revenge in the next WC-qualifiers, again they were in the same group as Belgium but they outclassed them completely (they won 5-0).

But in 1974 Belgium should have gone to the WC... (for my Dutch friends: last year there was a very good book about that WC and Oranja. It's called: 1974: wij waren de besten...one of the best football books i ever read unfirtunately i can't remember the author...).

Milanista and Cruijff: Johan Cruijff definitely never played for Milan...maybe he acted as a counsellor for Van Basten (which he kind of was). By the time Van Basten went to Milan, Cruijff was'nt playing anymore (he even was Van Bastens coach at Ajax). The fact that there photograps of Cruijff in a Milan proves nothing (hell, there maybe are even photographs of me in a Milan shirt...i certainly (and fortunately for Milan) never played for them...
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

He officially signed for them in 1984, he was given the option to continue playing or to stop. He played 2 friendlies, then decided to stop playing. Everyone in Milano knows of this, its not big news or a super transfer, he was already in his 30s and wanted to play somewhere else.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

Cruijff said:
Though I agree with your viewpoints on this matter, I do wonder where you get those 2 extra players from... :P
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humm... what bout the referee? :P
and they always said that the crowd was the 12th player! :P
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

gerd said:
Belgium should have played that WC...
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Indeed. But the entire world got some wonderfull football as compensation of that one fatal error.

It's called: 1974: wij waren de besten...one of the best football books i ever read unfirtunately i can't remember the author...).
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"1974, Wij waren de besten", by Auke Kok. Great book about the team of the tournament.

If Johan himself said he did, I would trust his memory. He probably knows more about himself than we all together. It was nothing big he played. Not a EuropaCup like almost all his other teams. That's why almost nobody remembers it, exept Milan-supporters.
 
Re: UEFA Champions League 04/05 Thread

If Cruijff himself said he did, well then there's no arguing i guess...
And about Holland 1974, i agree with you that they played fabulous football. In retrospect it's one of my favourite teams ever...but boy, in 1974 i was a 12 year old kid and did i hate them...as a kid i still was in this big Belgium-Holland rivalry thing...fortunately i quickly grew out of it...most of my fellow Belgians don't. If Belgium plays Holland most of my compatriotd feel like most Dutch feel when you are playing Germany...
It must be very frustrating because Holland clearly has the better team most of the time (although Belgium's results against Holland are not that bad).
I think all in all you are right that the refereeing mistake was a good thing for football in general...everyone would agree with you except us Belgians of course...it's like the discussion round Milan-PSV. Every neutral football fan would have wished PSV to play the final...but it doesn't mean a thing to Milan fans...
 
I found this rather amusing.
Villarreal goalkeeper Mariano Barbosa on playing against Everton in the CL and their supporters.

"They swore at me a lot, even though I could understand very little of it."

"I saw them doing something strange, making v-signs with their fingers and I asked 'are they looking for peace and love?'

"Diego Forlan, who used to play for Manchester United, explained that they were saying 'f*** you' to us.
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