Tottenham Thread

matherto said:
I really don't know how anyone can argue Balotelli didn't mean to kick Parker in the face.

There's a deliberate, unnatural movement towards to face, no doubt about it.
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MOTD2 Lee didnt think it was deliberate , he felt it was an issue on balancing n getting out of the way. I think Gerd see mutd supporters making more of a fuss about it :LOL: than any spurs fans.
 
they showed it and said he was lucky not to get a red. Why harp on that I`m sure players got away w/ red before ;) not sure why only a few are so bewilder about it ...
 
At first I didn't think it was deliberate either but that thought has passed.

Anyway, Defoe should have won us the game and he should have anticipated better. No quotes about Sandra being a better finisher this time though.
 
I still think there is reasonable doubt as to Balotelli did it on purpose.
I'm not sure about Lescott's elbow either, it is more blatant than Balotelli's (he did it on purpose), but then players Vidic and Terry get red cards every match.

I was outraged because i the clip did not show all of it (i repeat, if you watch that clip it also looks like Modric kicked Parker). If you look at this thread, who are the people who are sure that it is a blatant red card: only Man Utd fans...they are biased.

As a Spurs fan i should be biased too, yet i'm not sure.

But of course everybody who is right in his mind knows that i hate Man Utd more than i like my favourite team...so that's cleared up, now we can move on.
 
I think it was on purpose aswell (Ballotelli).

The way he stumbled, fell just didn't look natural and I would say he did it on purpose.....but I could be wrong.
 
gerd said:
I still think there is reasonable doubt as to Balotelli did it on purpose.
I'm not sure about Lescott's elbow either, it is more blatant than Balotelli's (he did it on purpose), but then players Vidic and Terry get red cards every match.
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I agree it's hard to say either way if it was deliberate or Balotelli was just clumsy. It's interesting that Modric was right in front of the incident and presumably saw it all, yet he didn't clamour for the ref to call a foul or demand a yellow. Usually players on the scene do this at the slighest chance of a red. For instance if you look at Connor Sammon's red card against ManU, which almost everyone agrees was barely even a foul, Giggs et al were waving their arms in the ref's face trying to engineer the red card. It's strange that Modric and other Spurs players on the scene didn't protest the decision in that way.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
I agree it's hard to say either way if it was deliberate or Balotelli was just clumsy. It's interesting that Modric was right in front of the incident and presumably saw it all, yet he didn't clamour for the ref to call a foul or demand a yellow. Usually players on the scene do this at the slighest chance of a red. For instance if you look at Connor Sammon's red card against ManU, which almost everyone agrees was barely even a foul, Giggs et al were waving their arms in the ref's face trying to engineer the red card. It's strange that Modric and other Spurs players on the scene didn't protest the decision in that way.
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That's a ridiculous example, not a single player on the pitch was looking for a red card against Sammon, just a foul. Carrick didn't even go to ground. How about Suarez and Rodwell?

Why is everyone picking on United? Just because I happen to support a team means I can't have an opinion on other teams? My point is that when Wayne Rooney forearmed a Wigan player half the English population knew about it. It took up 3 whole minutes of footage on MOTD. It was the back page lead in every major paper in the country the next day.

Yet, when Joleon Lescott does more or less the same thing (if anything worse) it barely raises a hackle.

No offense Gerd - you're one of the better posters on here - but you STILL go on about the Rooney incident. Yet brush over this one? That's ridiculous.
 
The Rooney incident is an example, but there is no comparision between both incidents. The ball was miles away when Rooney did that...what Balotelli and Lescott did yesterday was in a struggle for the ball.

And yes, just like Edmundo i wanted to point out that in both instances (if my memory serves me well) not a single player protested. And i, as a Spurs fan, never had the slightest inclination to protest or to be indignated...and i can assure you i really wanted Spurs to win that match.

Yesterday i thought Spurs had a chance to win the title, now it's all over...but i don't feel that anybody robbed Spurs or that they were cheated. Am i sure that Ballotelli is innocent? Not at all, but i have reasonable doubt and imo he deserves the benfit of that doubt, like any other player deserves.

As for Rooney, i can remember two things that where worse than what he did: Pepe on Messi and Leonardo in a WC (USA?). Cantona? No. That was a reaction.

Lescott? This happens every week. It should not happen, but if you give a red card (in England) for something similar, there is not a single match that ends with all the original CB's. On the continent this will always be a red card because it scarcely happens there. I've seen Terry, Hangeland, Skrtel, Vidic, and most other EPL central defenders do something similar without having a red card.

If this would have been Spurs against Fulham, Wigan or Swansea most people would nevere think the same way, because in that case Spurs are the team threatening Man Utd (or any other big team, but here only the Man Utd fans are vehemently), now it's City who are the challenging team.
 
gerd said:
As for Rooney, i can remember two things that where worse than what he did: Pepe on Messi and Leonardo in a WC (USA?). Cantona? No. That was a reaction.

Lescott? This happens every week. It should not happen, but if you give a red card (in England) for something similar, there is not a single match that ends with all the original CB's. On the continent this will always be a red card because it scarcely happens there. I've seen Terry, Hangeland, Skrtel, Vidic, and most other EPL central defenders do something similar without having a red card.
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You can recall two incidents in all of football worse than Rooney forearming McCarthy? Alright, in that case I'm not sure it's worth trying to discuss any more.

I dislike Rooney as a person, and as the thuggish player he can be. The worst thing is that, unlike - say - Michael Ball stamping on Ronaldo, or Ben Thatcher concussing Pedro Mendes - Rooney shouldn't have to resort to that. He has enough talent. He's done far worse things in his career (obviously against Carvalho, but he's had multiple kick outs at players - hell he even tried to cut Ronaldo in two when he was playing for Everton) than the Wigan incident. To this day I still think it was cowardly, and unnecessary, but hardly dangerous or vicious - so I can't get what the whole hoopla was about.

Anyway, my frustration as a United fan is that if Rooney had done either incident, that's all that would be in the paper today. Identical in every way, except switch in Shrek's ugly mug and it would be front page stuff.

As to Spurs - I'm so pleased that they're going back to the CL. My second favourite team in the league and probably my favourite to watch. I never really expected them to win the league, but coming above Chelsea/ Arsenal/ Liverpool is a great achievement. And they really have a likeable squad too. Parker/ Bale/ Disco Bennie/ King/ Fiedel etc.

The only downside, of course, is that now it's even less likely Modric will move to Old Trafford ;)
 
If i was Modric, i would go to man Utd.
As somebody said in the Arsenal thread, Spurs have a great team NOW, but this is not a team with a big future...this team has two or 3 good season in it, but maybe this will turn out to be their peak...
 
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beachryan said:
That's a ridiculous example, not a single player on the pitch was looking for a red card against Sammon, just a foul. Carrick didn't even go to ground. How about Suarez and Rodwell?
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Modric's reaction
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ManU players reaction
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The point is three ManU players are with their arms in the air appealing for free kick/yellow/red whatever. The Spurs player nearest the incident isnt appealing for anything. That suggests that Modric didnt think it was intentional but thought instead it was an accidental coming together, whereas the ManU players seemed to think Sammon's was a violent foul.
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
Modric's reaction
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ManU players reaction
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The point is three ManU players are with their arms in the air appealing for free kick/yellow/red whatever. The Spurs player nearest the incident isnt appealing for anything. That suggests that Modric didnt think it was intentional but thought instead it was an accidental coming together, whereas the ManU players seemed to think Sammon's was a violent foul.
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Would you like another straw to grasp at? United players are raising their hands to appeal for a foul. Nothing more. They didn't run to the ref. They looked as shocked as anyone when it was a red. They wanted a foul because - shock - it was a foul and had it not been given Sammon could have run past the flailing Carrick and through on goal. I can think of half a dozen better examples this season alone - what is your beef with that one? Rodwell on Suarez, Ferdinand on Adam, Milijias on Ramsey - all far better examples of players demanding a card. You seem to have real beef against United - that's fine - but this incident has nothing to do with them.

Modric was checking to see if Parker was okay, as he was holding his head and laying on the floor. I'm not actually convinced Modric even saw it.

Anyway, given all the pundits who played the game (with the notable exception of Lee Dixon - City fan) on both MOTD and Sky Sports said he knew what he was doing, Howard Webb confirmed that if he'd seen it he would have sent him off and then finally, the FA confirming that they're charging with violent conduct given the video footage - do you really think it was just an accident?

Is your new means by which a red card should be judged the other players' reactions? If so, every single foul in the past 5 years on a Barcelona player warrants a red card. As does every single foul on Luiz Suarez.

Face it, Balotelli knows that Parker is on the ground, and he stamps on him. I have no doubt he didn't know which part of him he'd stamp on, he wasn't looking, but he kicks backwards in the hopes of hurting the player that just fouled him.
 
Definitely intentional in my opinion and he should be severely punished for it.

He was trying to land on the ground? Lol, okay well land anywhere but the guy's head! It's BS anyway. His body and feet change direction and you can see he clearly kicks out at last second in a back-heel like movement! The immature kid had probably been watching Pepe last week in El Classico who I wouldn't be surprised if I find out is a hero of his and thought to himself: "Hey, I just figured out a new way to get attention! Can't wait for the weekend to try it!" :LOL:

Despicable act and although he's been suspended for 4 matches now, for me, actions like this and Pepe's should get a much bigger ban than a regular 'violent conduct' foul. They could have completely brought the game into shame and lead the match into a full on brawl (just imagine what would happen if someone not as 'cool' as Modric was near that!) Just because we've been lucky that Scotty and Leo Messi weren't seriously hurt, I feel this isn't being taken seriously enough.

Balotelli and Pepe should be put in a cage to fight each other. If that's not possible then ban them for 10 matches each at least and set an example of why violence and intentional hurting of the opponent (and I mean c'mon we're talking STAMPING with football cleats on someone's head/fingers!) simply can NOT be tolerated!
 
Sina, i agree with you that these acts should be punished more severe, much more severe.

But i'm still not convinced that Balotelli did this on purpose. The unnatural angle of the foot may also be due to the fact that he desperately wants to avoid falling or falling awkward. IMO only Balotelli himself knows that he did it on purpose or not.

You can arguee (in an analogy with Kompany's red card) that the fact that he did it intentional or not is irrelevant because the outcome was dangerous and that therefore he should get a red card. I'm okay with that, in fact i would love it. But then we would see red cards every match and a team like Man Utd (which is IMO the big team that plays closest to the edge in England) should end all his matches with at least 2 red cards (i.e. one for Vidic in every match for elbowing and one for another player, a player like Rooney would also miss lots of matches).

If you like i can follow matches the next week and point out incidents that should also get red cards if you follow that logic.

I have no problem to concede that i overreacted sunday, but i was furious because the clip was totally out of context and with a clip (always isolated) you can prove whatever you want (also look at my reaction in the Liverpool thread to a clip about Andy Carroll). The Man Utd fans (not all my best friends on this forum) reacted massively, not because they care so much about Spurs, but because this was City. If this would have been Clint Dempsey of Fulham i doubt there would be a similar outrage...
 
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Utd can't afford Luka, that recent story was mind games.

If they had that kind of money they wouldn't bring a 37 year old out of retirement.

The Spanish FA are a joke.

I expect everyone to still drop points and if Defoe had a football brain and understood what it means to exploit space we would have won.

Still waiting for Redknapp to say that his wife would have scored...
 
IMO Defoe was not to blame, Bale should have passed earlier...it's a litle bit easy to blame Defoe now.
Seeing how good Spurs were once they went for it (being 2-0 down). I blame Redknapp, his wife would probably not have started the match that conservative. In the first half all we saw were lateral passess, whereas Spurs is best when the play balls in depth...

IMO Defoe is a very good player, but perhapsjust not good enough if Spurs want to win titles...i still have my doubts about Adebayor too. Redknapp should buy a WC attacker and use his fringe players more (or if he has doubts about them, buy better fringe players).
 
I disagree, Bale's pass was fine, he took two/three players out of the equation, Defoe should have anticipated better.
 
beachryan said:
I can think of half a dozen better examples this season alone - what is your beef with that one? Rodwell on Suarez, Ferdinand on Adam, Milijias on Ramsey - all far better examples of players demanding a card..
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I'm sure there might be other examples, but Sammon's was the most recent one I could think of. It was also the best recent example of one that was catagorically (and utterly) not a cardable offence, it probably wasnt even a foul and the fact the card was overturned on appeal by the FA illustrates this. For instance Millijas's one wasnt overturned by the FA (personally I would have overturned it) so that suggests it was less clearcut in terms of being an error than Sammon's, as I say Sammon's was the best recent example of players clamouring for weak decision and contrasts with the way Modric didnt appear to do or say anything.

beachryan said:
You seem to have real beef against United - that's fine - but this incident has nothing to do with them.
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I don't have a "beef" (I assume that means bias or hatred), I'm not from the UK, and I don't even support a team in the same league as them. It's an easy line you've used before, that other fans / the press / the fa / etc is against your club. The modus operandi seems to be as follows:

1) Go into another club thread,
2) Complain about something in the context of another club getting an easier time (from the press, the fa etc) than ManU.
3) Someone points out that the issue is perhaps not as clearcut or onesided as you think
4) You say "oh that person hates my team, I'll disregard their point of view".

It seems a very simplistic approach and hardly one that fosters rational debate. All it seems to do is clog up the other teams sections with loads of posts about ManU.

beachryan said:
Modric was checking to see if Parker was okay, as he was holding his head and laying on the floor. I'm not actually convinced Modric even saw it
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It would have been difficult for him not to see it given the proximity of him to Balotelli and Parker. It was less than half a metre from him.

beachryan said:
Anyway, given all the pundits who played the game (with the notable exception of Lee Dixon - City fan) on both MOTD and Sky Sports said he knew what he was doing, Howard Webb confirmed that if he'd seen it he would have sent him off and then finally, the FA confirming that they're charging with violent conduct given the video footage - do you really think it was just an accident?
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Maybe, maybe not. It's impossible to say if it was a result of him intentionally stamping on Parker or a result of him being off balance. The only person who really knows is Balotelli, seen at normal speed it's hard to say.


beachryan said:
Is your new means by which a red card should be judged the other players' reactions? If so, every single foul in the past 5 years on a Barcelona player warrants a red card. As does every single foul on Luiz Suarez
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Subtlety missing the point here Ryan, it's more the absence of protest can suggest, with other factors, that foul either wasnt intentional or reckless. Of course it should not be a red card whenever anyone protests, but the absence of a protest/appeal to ref can suggest the foul/red card etc wasnt clear cut.

Also Barca, Suarez etc are players who have a track record of frivolously appealing/protesting for such decisions, Modric doesn't have a track record of frequently doing that.
 
Very good points in that post edmundo.
One thing i will clear up for you: the mechanism you describe that people "hate" some clubs is very common on this site. I guess fans of all clubs have it, but since Man Utd is the club with most fans on evo-web, i have the same feeling with their fans. That is the reason why i never visit that particular club thread. The worst of all doesn't visit anymore, but there are others...

But to be fair: i distinctly have not the impression that beachryan is one of those people. Of course he is a United fan, he is not always objective about his club (but who is?), but he is a very fair guy and i like to discuss with him.

About Balotelli and Parker. Monday evening the images once again were showen in a football show on Belgian television. Once again i had the impression that Balotelli simply avoided and awkward fall and for what's it worth, 3 of the 4 pundits thought exactly the same way...

But of course whe Belgians know nothing about football and we all hate Man Utd.
 

Apologies, and credit for actually taking the time to respond. From my point of view, it seemed like you were just choosing a United example to join the brigade of 'the FA are run by Fergie' - which isn't as unpopular a view as a rational person would expect around here.

On the Sammon foul - to be put it to bed, no way was it a card. It definitely was a foul, which I'm convinced is all that Giggs et al were appealing for. It just seems a very strange example to bring up, given Mancini's recent propensity for card waving, the Liverpool reaction to Ferdinand's 'brush' against Adam's foot, or last season with Torres and O'Shea, or anytime a Chelsea player fouls anyone (see the speed of Terry to arrive on scene).

With the Balo thing - I just don't think that many people saw it. Maybe Modric did or did not, I'm not sure. But for me there is nothing natural about that movement. I've broken both of my ankles playing sports, and the last thing you do when off balance is accelerate your feet towards the ground. The body naturally doesn't want to put weight down when you're falling, to avoid rolling anything. I could watch that video 100x and not understand how anyone can see that kicking back motion as natural - but I'll respect that not everyone agrees.

What I think we can all agree on is that, once again, the FA are run by the media. Lescott's foul didn't even get a review, that blows my mind.

Anyway, back to Spurs - will be interesting to see what happens with 'Arry. If he goes (either by force or to be England manager) I'm not sure all those players will want to stick around.
 
Good points all around by you guys.

One thing I will say though is that Sammon's elbow on Carrick definitely WAS a Foul in my book. He certainly caught Carrick and it wasn't a soft blow either. Now was it worthy of a red-card?! Hell no! One of the biggest fuckups this year along with Milijas' red card (and that arguably wasn't even a foul as his feet were on the ground and he did get the ball).

p.s. Edmundo, just wondering, where you from? What's your nationality and when where you raised/live? You certainly have an excellent command of the English language.
 
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sorry, but I'm a little late to the Balotelli incident. After reading the posts in this thread, I'm still with gerd on this one. According to the video, it looks like Balotelli is trying to regain his balance, and as a result he has to spin around to stand his ground. I guess if you're trying to see this from Balotelli's perspective, try imagining that Parker is not in the shot, and it still seems like Balotelli is trying to regain his balance after a tackle. Of course, maybe I'm a delusional Arsenal fan posting in the spurs thread but that's just how I saw it. We all wouldn't put it past this petulant guy anyway....

After the nth time watching it, I'm still interpreting it as:
1) Balotelli shoots, his momentum spins him into Parker's tackle.
2) Parker tackles, and Balotelli can't stay on both feet at this point because Parker is in the way.
3) while still trying to maintain balance, Balotelli kicks out backward and Parker's face is standing in the way of Balotelli's boot because of the unnatural way he is trying to stay on his feet.
 
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I agree with Tobi and Gerd. Balotelli has a reputation of doing stupid things, but he's not really won to be aggressive in that way. I think he was trying to regain balance on the fall, and it also seems difficult for him to know where Parker's head (or where Parker was all together) was.
 
I have seen it a few times now and I can see why it is not conclusive.

But for me the way in which he flicks his leg back at that angle and in that manner, just doesn't look like a natural way you would try and find your footing while falling?

Also the way he fell afterwards was also weird as I think after he stamped on him he could have stayed on his feet?

This leads me to think he meant to stamp on him (Maybe not his face) but to some extent.

That is just my opinion though and I can see why people think differently.
 
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