The Retro-PES Corner

miguelfcp said:
@casperld: Trust the original database, it's a big part of the fun to be able to control those players from a different era.
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miguelfcp said:
@casperld: Trust the original database, it's a big part of the fun to be able to control those players from a different era.
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@miguelfcp , absolutely agree. Hard to believe it is fifteen long years ago and it is a different era or a moment in time. And the players of that time are part of the special gameplay that makes PES 3 such a challenging and fun experience to this day.

And that was some chip dude, what timing, damn near impossible.:KING::KING::KING:
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: Yeah as Matt said I use a back-3. 3-5-2, two wingbacks, 1 DMF, 1 CMF, 1 AMF, two strikers. The challenge is extra-hard on PES6 because unlike on 2008, you don't have prospects like El Moubarki or Gutierrez who develop very well.
On the first seasons of the save, I always recommend to focus more on developing players, even if it means losing almost every match as a consequence. It's not like you're going to be promoted on season one (unless the stars align somehow) so try to play your younger players as much as possible, even if you end up rock bottom in the league. I'd say the first 2/3 seasons will serve no other purpose but to upgrade your players' stats (by the way make sure every pre-season you assign individual or collective training!).
I also recommend to focus on the D2 Cup, with a bit of luck and effort you could win precious PES points for your salaries by reaching the later rounds of the competition.

Now regarding the tactical approach...I'm with Matt there: Stein and Dodo should play together in the midfield, regardless of the tactic. They develop nicely, and are extremely reliable from the start. Also, to take proper advantage of Minanda, I'd find a way to play a classic nº10 behind the strikers (Ordaz and Hamsun?). Defensively, a back-3 exposes less of Jaric's poor aerial ability and makes Libermann shine as the central CB, as he has the protection of the two other CBs alongside him. On the wings, Espimas still has a lot to offer as either a RMF or a RWB and don't overlook Giersen, I'm on my season 8 and still I find him to be very useful and reliable.

@mattmid: You know, I've never tried this, but a low-stats/high mental stats league could take the experience to a whole new level really. It would mean more reliance on player intelligent/stability and less on player stats, and force you to play the game accordingly. Interested to see how that experience plays out, usually (always?) in PES the players have better statsheets as a whole, excluding mentality/teamwork, than those exact two stats. If you flip it upside down, what will you get?
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@miguelfcp , thanks for all the advice and making me feel less of a dud at this challenge, I will try and remember to do all this, but PES 6 is much more faffery than earlier PES games, loads of off the field stuff it seems. :SHOCK::SHOCK::SHOCK:
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: Still I think it has an acceptable level of faffery...if modern-day Football Manager pushed the Faffery Meter to an astonishing "make-sure-your-players-have-befriended-each-other-and-remain-in-the-same-social-circle-or-else-they-won't-perform" level (I'm dead serious, check it out), PES6 is still far far away from that. The RPG-like element of winning EXP to "level up" and pre-season training just add to the immersion without it being too time-consuming or too in-depth.
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: Still I think it has an acceptable level of faffery...if modern-day Football Manager pushed the Faffery Meter to an astonishing "make-sure-your-players-have-befriended-each-other-and-remain-in-the-same-social-circle-or-else-they-won't-perform" level (I'm dead serious, check it out), PES6 is still far far away from that. The RPG-like element of winning EXP to "level up" and pre-season training just add to the immersion without it being too time-consuming or too in-depth.
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I think FM has become like having a job instead of playing a game. I used to buy it most years, first got it back in the Amiga days when it was just the Collier brothers making it. I played the FM18 demo and I got bored of it after a while. The pre match and half time team talk effects are laughable. It's basically, choose the right thing to say and you're players are suddenly unbeatable, say the wrong thing and they're all shit. It becomes a game of say the right thing, rather than any tactical choices or anything else. The nonsense Miguel mentioned is exactly that. They've add a fake twitter thing to it as well, as if we don't get enough of that in real life with everyone wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Shame as it used to be a great game back in the day.
 
I vote for Mane, simply because it was a fantastic AI finish. During the game Mane had a one on one and i brought the keeper out. Mane tried a lob but straight into the keeper’s hands. About 10 mins later he had another one on one this time he waited for the keeper to dive and then adjusted his body to lift it over.

Maybe not a stunner but during the match i was like wow! Took me and the keeper by surprise. Little things like that make PES2008 the best PES. ;)

Goal of the Week votes:
Davids -> 0 votes
Lallana -> 2 votes - @Madmac79 @Special4988
Park Jyun Hi -> 1 vote - @fmicablues7@mattmid
Holland -> 2 votes - @miguelfcp @lazoli
Mane -> 1 votes - @geeeeee
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: I never use it either, a good thing about PES08 PS2 is that you rarely ever get any of the blue arrows indicating low condition, so your squad rotation can be driven mostly by players' fatigue and form over the last few matches. A low arrow is more common when a player accumulates too much fatigue.

@mattmid: My thoughts exactly, it's more of a job than a game now as you say. In my experience playing it, I enjoy it less than it makes me mad as hell, presumably because of the lack of control one has over it - doesn't matter the tactic, team talks, player morale: often you just have to sit there and pray to the gods for your team to score/not concede.
 
Well, this week's competition will be as tight as an Inzaghi's offside decision.
I chose Park Jyun Hi, because the lob was amazing given the speed of execution, but i have to say Holland's goal is also wonderful, especially because scoring from long range is much more harder and rewarding than in any PES after PES 3.
 
mattmid said:
I think FM has become like having a job instead of playing a game. I used to buy it most years, first got it back in the Amiga days when it was just the Collier brothers making it. I played the FM18 demo and I got bored of it after a while. The pre match and half time team talk effects are laughable. It's basically, choose the right thing to say and you're players are suddenly unbeatable, say the wrong thing and they're all shit. It becomes a game of say the right thing, rather than any tactical choices or anything else. The nonsense Miguel mentioned is exactly that. They've add a fake twitter thing to it as well, as if we don't get enough of that in real life with everyone wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Shame as it used to be a great game back in the day.
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Yeh, I kinda am beginning to suspect there is some sort of grand corporate conspiracy going on with games like Football Manager and the latest PES editions that we are being brainwashed into conforming to a worker-bee type of existance, even when not in work.

There was this god and civilization type PC game called Cultures where it went down the Civilization route to the extreme micro-managment level, where you had to educate and train every single worker, tell them to eat, sleep and even fu*k. It was flppin' exhausting to play.

PES seems to be almost at that point where people turn the game on with a sense of fatigue and drudgery. Where did it all go wrong Konami ? :SHAKE::SHAKE::SHAKE:
 
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fmicablues7 said:
Well, this week's competition will be as tight as an Inzaghi's offside decision.
I chose Park Jyun Hi, because the lob was amazing given the speed of execution, but i have to say Holland's goal is also wonderful, especially because scoring from long range is much more harder and rewarding than in any PES after PES 3.
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Damn straight @fmicablues7 , me homie, I have been attempting to replicate that kind of first time strike thunderbolt that @Rayemou did. And all week the PES 3 football has been hitting every single fan in the stands behind the goal. As for his Migness, @miguelfcp chip of the gods, not even gonna try and match that. :...:...:...
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: I guarantee you I won't score a lob like that again in the next two decades...and with freakin' Park Jyun Hi? Never ever.

I really wanted to take a break of my PES08 ML after ending Season 7, I still have to experiment J-League 08 and all that but I couldn't. I'm absolutely hooked on it, so I started Season 8. 6 fixtures in and ML United is 1st in D1, same points as Galatasaray. As for the preliminary group stage of the WEFA Championships, won a group comprised of Man Blue, Getafe (hell of a team they have, unexpectedly) and Merseyside Red so we advance to the next group phase. Now it'll be against Atletico Madrid, Milan and Benfica, three of the best teams currently in our ML world.
 
mattmid said:
I think FM has become like having a job instead of playing a game. I used to buy it most years, first got it back in the Amiga days when it was just the Collier brothers making it. I played the FM18 demo and I got bored of it after a while. The pre match and half time team talk effects are laughable. It's basically, choose the right thing to say and you're players are suddenly unbeatable, say the wrong thing and they're all shit. It becomes a game of say the right thing, rather than any tactical choices or anything else. The nonsense Miguel mentioned is exactly that. They've add a fake twitter thing to it as well, as if we don't get enough of that in real life with everyone wanting their 15 minutes of fame. Shame as it used to be a great game back in the day.
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I left the saga a loooot of years ago, but I have so many fond memories of this games, especially when it still was Championship Manager.. the 97-98 (my first one) was such a blast.. plus I remember the fun of playing multi with friends with some of the later chapters. I lost interest in the FM era but given where the industry is going I'm not surprised they turned it as you say.

Speaking about management games, I also remember with love Ultimate Soccer Manager 2 (God, the stadium building :LOVE:! But all the game had quite some depth) and the classic many italians like me surely remember that was Pc Futbol (Pc Calcio in my country.. I have no idea if it had the same success abroad, but here we went literally crazy for it in those years!).
 
@Madmac79 That Italian one does vaguely ring a bell, I think I might have played it at some point, or perhaps a demo? Yeah the CM years were great, I remember a save from I think it was 98-99 when over about 9 seasons I took Scarborough (randomly picked for no reason!) through the leagues to the Premier. About 5/6 players went all the way too, developing into top players.
 
WhoAteMeDinner said:
Yeh, I kinda am beginning to suspect there is some sort of grand corporate conspiracy going on with games like Football Manager and the latest PES editions that we are being brainwashed into conforming to a worker-bee type of existance, even when not in work.

There was this god and civilization type PC game called Cultures where it went down the Civilization route to the extreme micro-managment level, where you had to educate and train every single worker, tell them to eat, sleep and even fu*k. It was flppin' exhausting to play.

PES seems to be almost at that point where people turn the game on with a sense of fatigue and drudgery. Where did it all go wrong Konami ? :SHAKE::SHAKE::SHAKE:
Click to expand...
Checked the game "Cultures" on youtube , dude it looks awesome for a 2000 game.Nice graphics,nice mechanics.awesome. Now offtopic, but about the corruption of quality video games. You all know the good old RTS genre ,which was eliminated cause of LoL, DoTA and rest Mobas. Has any of you ever played the RTS "Empire Earth" and its awesome expansion "EE: The Art of Conquest"? In short terms it is the WE9LE of RTS video games genre. Awesome battle mechanics, awesome graphics for the age, far better than its rival Age Of Empires. If you played the sequels after it, EE II and EE III you will put out your own eyes.They are so bad in everything ,gameplay, graphics ,content (battle mechanics, shallow story mode, bad maps). It is the same case as PES, in cost of adding new useful content they removed vital mechanics that ruined the game completely.
It is the best example for me of how a video game can go corrupt from inside. SIERRA (the developer) should write an essay on how you can completely ruin an AAA+ video game in just one sequel.
 
Madmac79 said:
I left the saga a loooot of years ago, but I have so many fond memories of this games, especially when it still was Championship Manager.. the 97-98 (my first one) was such a blast.. plus I remember the fun of playing multi with friends with some of the later chapters. I lost interest in the FM era but given where the industry is going I'm not surprised they turned it as you say.

Speaking about management games, I also remember with love Ultimate Soccer Manager 2 (God, the stadium building :LOVE:! But all the game had quite some depth) and the classic many italians like me surely remember that was Pc Futbol (Pc Calcio in my country.. I have no idea if it had the same success abroad, but here we went literally crazy for it in those years!).
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That PC Futbol or PC Calcio games are also known as Premier Manager (97, 98 etc.) in other countries. Really cool games, you could cheat by letting your striker mark the opponents goalkeeper :JAY: The same cheaty tactic also applies to Championship Manager 3 (which is my favorite football management game). There is a game being developed at the moment called Retro Football Boss, that kinda scratches the old school football management itch for me. The developer also is a PES fan (he showed a screenshot with the ML original players being put in the game).
 
slamsoze said:
Checked the game "Cultures" on youtube , dude it looks awesome for a 2000 game.Nice graphics,nice mechanics.awesome. Now offtopic, but about the corruption of quality video games. You all know the good old RTS genre ,which was eliminated cause of LoL, DoTA and rest Mobas. Has any of you ever played the RTS "Empire Earth" and its awesome expansion "EE: The Art of Conquest"? In short terms it is the WE9LE of RTS video games genre. Awesome battle mechanics, awesome graphics for the age, far better than its rival Age Of Empires. If you played the sequels after it, EE II and EE III you will put out your own eyes.They are so bad in everything ,gameplay, graphics ,content (battle mechanics, shallow story mode, bad maps). It is the same case as PES, in cost of adding new useful content they removed vital mechanics that ruined the game completely.
It is the best example for me of how a video game can go corrupt from inside. SIERRA (the developer) should write an essay on how you can completely ruin an AAA+ video game in just one sequel.
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Yeah, we are in the era of the fast food gaming I guess, at least if we talk about big SH. Not want to generalize but there are so many examples like that. Always staying in the RTS field, look what they did with Warcraft. I could not quantify my love for Warcraft 2 and 3.. and they just became food for World of Warcraft, maybe the first and bigger responsible game for all the direction the market took.. it practically engulfed them, so that the strategic WC disappear forever as a saga.

Even if we are a bit off topic I guess it's a fascinating discussion, it's easier to understand as a whole why even Pes is going towards this direction.
 
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While we're slightly off topic and talking of FM and management games, if anyone likes baseball and hasn't tried it I highly recommend OOTP (Out of the Park Baseball) It's got better and better each version (now up to 19). It's basically FM for Baseball, but better.
 
Madmac79 said:
Yeah, we are in the era of the fast food gaming I guess, at least if we talk about big SH. Not want to generalize but there are so many examples like that. Always staying in the RTS field, look what they did with Warcraft. I could not quantify my love for Warcraft 2 and 3.. and they just became food for World of Warcraft, maybe the first and bigger responsible game for all the market the direction took.. it practically engulfed them, so that the strategic WC disappear forever as a saga.

Even if we are a bit off topic I guess it's a fascinating discussion, it's easier to understand as a whole why even Pes is going towards this direction.
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Υeah WoW is the best example it is the father of modern everything bad. From paid subscriptions and in-game micro-transactions to out-game mega-transactions.

P.S.: I still wait for a Warcraft IV with an Arthas salvation! :P
 
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