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The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
Shikashi said:
Which is why I mentioned Liveware Evolution.
In any case, yes, western fan feedback is a very small part of the development process for most Japanese games.
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The feedback from English-speaking sites is also a small part within the overall EU contribution - at least from what I've heard in PES's case. There are points we make here or on other boards and all see as obvious that might not be seen the same way across the continent, and we'd have next to no way of knowing because there's little interaction between the communities. The tempo of the game, or the accuracy of passes, or the effectiveness of speed merchants, or the strictness of referees, for example.

And the weight that each community carries will most likely vary based on (a)current sales and (b)which regions Konami (or any other games studio, EA included) want to target for the next title.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
If they produced PES 6 HD though and charged £25 then that could be a winner.
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That's not a bad shout. In fact, take PES 6 and add a bunch of fake leagues and teams so the ML represents real world league structures and I'd happily hand over £25, even £40.

I wonder if Konami would even consider selling the source code to PES6 and allow another developer to HD it, enhance the ML structures and add even add decent online code.

Then again, they're probably too precious about the source code to sell it as it'll probably be the basis for next-gen PES, so is still in use.
 
Could they do PES 5 with more degrees of movement in HD? They 8 are too limited. It's my only problem with last gen coming from this gen.
 
It would need rebalancing if they did that. It makes a big difference adding more degrees of freedom You'd end up with something that just isn't PES5/6 HD.
 
I wonder when the last time was, all the guys clamouring for a PES5/6 HD played those games. I popped PES5 in about a month ago and its horribly dated. It has no large flaws like the last 2 PES games but I would rather play PES2011/12 than 5. If Konami could make a game without all the glaring issues they current have it would be decent enough. Hopefully they can sort it out this year, or maybe its an engine problem and we have to wait a few years.
 
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fanolato said:
Could they do PES 5 with more degrees of movement in HD? They 8 are too limited. It's my only problem with last gen coming from this gen.
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No, that doesn't work. You're breaking the game. They would need to revise AI and some other stuff.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Using this tired and broke PS2 engine for yet another year is a joke tbh. If they had any sense they would drop it and give what the fans want if they refuse to get upto date technology wise.......PES 6 HD!
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Pretty funny you mention PS2 engine as tired and broke yet you want PES 6 HD ;)
 
Rentboy said:
I couldn't agree more with you there trup2foryou. Maybe you should compile your videos and make only one smaller, but with the most serious issues and send it to KONAMI? Make our voices heard kind of thing.

I haven't played a great deal of PES 2012 because of the same issues you mention, but it was enough to come across quite a collection of f*ck ups. If only I had the patience to record them and edit in a video... but I think I've wasted enough time with this version.
But the element of cheating is definitely there and I've had all sorts of goals scored against me by the CPU... diving headers in the wrong direction that just went out like cannon balls, an average chump dribbling past 4 defenders inside a tiny space, etc...

Like you well said, of course we can adapt to the game and eventually learn how to deal with the AI defensively, and work your way around creating chances. But when I do that, I find myself forced to play in a way I never did in PES before. I just don't feel like I'm playing a footie game anymore and I find myself resorting to stupid plays to grab my goals. To me that's the definition of an Arcadey game... when I score I don't get that rewarding experience

Like you said in the video, I don't want to be forced to double team on the wings all the time, but hell that's the only option the AI leaves you, and sometimes it isn't even enough.
That stupid "contain" system is ridiculous in the way it was implemented.
Also our defenders are totally useless and feels like they're running on slippery ice, any average Joe can dribble past them and turn them inside out, showing pieces of skill that do not necessarily correspond to their stats.
Also, there's a tendency for passes to go right under our defenders' noses, they never react and stick a leg out to intercept... it's just pathetic and broken really.

I'm totally with you, single player is simply broken and unplayable. Master League was a joy for me too, but I'm not even gonna go there in this version. It won't be good for my anger :D
To think that PES 2011 was quite enjoyable and a reasonably good game in this series... and to think of the bloody good PES/Winning Eleven titles KONAMI used to make some 7, 8 years ago, when they didn't have a chance to amend f*ck ups with patches/DLC content...

My copy of PES 2012 is shelved for good. Lets just hope for better days in PES 2013. Damn I would even roll back the years to when we used to dribble on the D-Pad using only simple trickery, good timing and, of course, relying on your player's good stats. Oh well.
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Thanks for the feedback, these were my 1st YouTube vids ever. I plan on doing a better, shorter, higher quality vid as you suggest. PES 2012 is bittersweet for me: the best parts are potentially the best footy game ever. The game, however, has a huge decline in the offensive and defensive 3rd of the pitch where - in both cases - your teammates become complete idiots and the AI plays way above their stat level. As I stated in my vids, this is is THE ONLY thing I will be watching for in future iterations. If this isn't fixed, then I will not purchase the game. PERIOD!!
 
Lami said:
Pretty funny you mention PS2 engine as tired and broke yet you want PES 6 HD ;)
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Huge difference is on the PS2 it wasnt broke or tired and the game played very very well, Right now we have Konami trying to do far too much of what that engine can handle and it's breaking down.

If we got PES 5/6 in HD the engine would be doing what it was designed to do which would result in it not being tired or broken so in reality not that funny at all ;)
 
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jammiedodger said:
I and a vast amount of pes fans would pay for that. Even pes5 HD i would also pay for.
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I would if it was re-released on XBLA or PSN but I wouldnt pay top dollar for it like?

This is like admitting defeat and going back to the old game engine and not tryin to develop a new next generation engine which works well.
 
I'm not sure I'd bother to be honest, I played PES6 on my PS2 a while back and it felt very old in gameplay. Things have moved on since then.
 
Things need to move on. No point in polishing up an old game from 5 or so years ago, thats like Ford scrapping the Astra and saying "we'll just release the old Cortina again with a new paint job".

Konami just need to fix the f****ing infuriating broken shooting.
 
LTFC said:
I'm not sure I'd bother to be honest, I played PES6 on my PS2 a while back and it felt very old in gameplay. Things have moved on since then.
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You only need to look at the PES 6 community on here to see how strong the original is still going.

Watching the vids of PES 6 the shooting is better, passing is better, animations is better, atmosphere is better etc etc It's a no brainer imo. Sure it might take a little while to get back into but im sure most people would play it for much longer than the nxt-gen versions weve had thus far.


xPJRx said:
Things need to move on. No point in polishing up an old game from 5 or so years ago, thats like Ford scrapping the Astra and saying "we'll just release the old Cortina again with a new paint job".
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In an ideal world yes but Konami have confirmed recently that they are not moving on until the new console's arrive. Sometimes you have to go backwards to move forwards.
 
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jammiedodger said:
Pes2012 is streets ahead of pes2011 but still lots of improvements needed. As long as the title keeps improving once the new gen console arrives i believe we will have the great title in the making. The games never gonna be perfect. And people will be divided like they are with any game.

A high percentage as you can see from this thread like pes2012 and if that percentage is better for pes2013 then they must be doing something right.
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This the problem I see in PES fans, personally I think PES 11 was much better, it had its faults but the the main thing which drove me insane was the catch up bug, every thing else I could deal with. MLO was great, online was playable, Master LEague was good, BAL was good.

Now you get to PES 12 where the only things that have been improved are your players having better touches and AI, apart from that, I find everything got worse. Master LEague is dreadful and is a constant whine fest, online is filled with Speed Merchant abusers and playing realistic football is non existant and the scripting is unbearable. But the thing that turned me off the game nearly instantly was the passing and the shooting, PES 2011 had good shooting and great passing and completely destroyed that in PES 12. The ball feels weightless, almost none existant and scoring goals just doesn't give you that special feeling that PES, even in the crap next gen games always gave you.


So there seems to be a split in fans between 2011 and 2012 that could cause Konami trouble when it comes to feedback.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
You only need to look at the PES 6 community on here to see how strong the original is still going.

Watching the vids of PES 6 the shooting is better, passing is better, animations is better, atmosphere is better etc etc It's a no brainer imo. Sure it might take a little while to get back into but im sure most people would play it for much longer than the nxt-gen versions weve had thus far.
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Beyond these in-game items, which I agree are better in the old games, you have much deeper tactical options as well. Remember the attack arrows? Those worked amazingly well and allowed the player to fine tune his team much more than any current gen iteration allows. How about the ability to attack left, right and down the middle on top of opposite side and center back that are available in the current release? Why would Konami remove these features? What have they added? Player cards? WTF?!?! These are gimicky and actually confusing.

It's almost as if sales kept dropping for PES in the current gen and in wondering why, Konami never looked in the mirror. Instead they saw FIFA sales (and critical response) growing at the same time and decided that making PES more like FIFA would solve their problems.

The result is that Konami have turned off a rabidly devoted fan base while not cutting into FIFA's market share at all. Konami can never match EA's prowess in the areas where FIFA definitely shines and which the gaming masses adore - presentation, graphics and licenses.
 
ftgpete said:
This the problem I see in PES fans, personally I think PES 11 was much better, it had its faults but the the main thing which drove me insane was the catch up bug, every thing else I could deal with. MLO was great, online was playable, Master LEague was good, BAL was good.

Now you get to PES 12 where the only things that have been improved are your players having better touches and AI, apart from that, I find everything got worse. Master LEague is dreadful and is a constant whine fest, online is filled with Speed Merchant abusers and playing realistic football is non existant and the scripting is unbearable. But the thing that turned me off the game nearly instantly was the passing and the shooting, PES 2011 had good shooting and great passing and completely destroyed that in PES 12. The ball feels weightless, almost none existant and scoring goals just doesn't give you that special feeling that PES, even in the crap next gen games always gave you.


So there seems to be a split in fans between 2011 and 2012 that could cause Konami trouble when it comes to feedback.
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The reality is that PES fans are not really split at all. What we are all saying is that we are unhappy with PES overall. In this unhappy state we all find those things in each PES release that drive us nuts and things which we grab onto as positives because we really want a next gen PES title and are willing to make concessions to play a non-FIFA footy game. For some folks, the things that PES 11 does well are enough to overlook the serious flaws. For others the same applies for PES 12.

Think about a local restaurant you and some friends frequent with great service, generous portions and good food. You show up one night and new management has come and changed things. The service stinks, the portions are reduced and the food isn't as good. You all agree that the place has gone downhill, but you may disagree about which one of these things you miss the most. Your friend may not give a crap about the service as long as the portions come back. Someone else only wants the quality. Etc. But at the end of the day, you all know that if things don't improve in all these areas, you'll eat somewhere else. Konami is very close to that point where even us diehards are looking for a new menu!
 
trup2foryou said:
The reality is that PES fans are not really split at all. What we are all saying is that we are unhappy with PES overall. In this unhappy state we all find those things in each PES release that drive us nuts and things which we grab onto as positives because we really want a next gen PES title and are willing to make concessions to play a non-FIFA footy game. For some folks, the things that PES 11 does well are enough to overlook the serious flaws. For others the same applies for PES 12. Think about a local restaurant you and some friends frequent with great service, generous portions and good food. You show up one night and new management has come and changed things. The service stinks, the portions are reduced and the food isn't as good. You all agree that the place has gone downhill, but you may disagree about which one of these things you miss the most. Your friend may not give a crap about the service as long as the portions come back. Someone else only wants the quality. Etc. But at the end of the day, you all know that if things don't improve in all these areas, you'll eat somewhere else. Konami is very close to that point where even us diehards are looking for a new menu!
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Nice analogy and I completely agree with you. Its just Konami have said that the new engine will be for the next gen so we can't expect any massive differences from this current engine. But I think if they get their priorites right and stop trying to change everything then they can make a good game. I believe that PES 2011 had way less faults so if they are going to work from a template then it should be 2011 as I just think PES 2012 is a mess.

BTW, love your videos and watching the 3rd one now, good to have you on board :COOL:
 
ftgpete said:
Nice analogy and I completely agree with you. Its just Konami have said that the new engine will be for the next gen so we can't expect any massive differences from this current engine. But I think if they get their priorites right and stop trying to change everything then they can make a good game. I believe that PES 2011 had way less faults so if they are going to work from a template then it should be 2011 as I just think PES 2012 is a mess.

BTW, love your videos and watching the 3rd one now, good to have you on board :COOL:
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The problem for Konami is that there are now so many huge, quality, non-footy games on the market that one by one, we are all going to say "screw it". I think the poster Jamezinho said this several pages ago. For me Syrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, Mass Effect 3 all move up my list and PES gathers dust. Next year there will be more in every genre. Us diehards will stop wasting our time.

Thanks about the vids, glad you're enjoying them.
 
Really good videos trup2foryou :TU:. I played an hour or so of PES earlier and I think its in contention for having the worst AI in any game I have played, the defensive organisation is a joke. All things considered this may be the worst PES I have played.
 
Pro Evo Soccer 2007 is the same game as Pes 6 right? Haven't played 6 yet have played WE9. Animations slightly better just plays a bit faster?
 
Ern Dog said:
PES 6 is quite a bit different to PES 5, its where it all started to go wrong IMO.
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Totally agree. PES6 – fast, frantic, and EASY – was where the rising curve of PES started to at least flatten out, and arguably go into decline.

PES6 was still a great game and one of the greats of the PES canon, but yes, in retrospect it could be seen as the beginning of the end. I preferred the Xbox360 version tbh and still do.
 
I've watched some match vids on YouTube from PES6 and honestly, you don't see the teammate defensive AI issues that are so ruinous for PES 2012. The human controlled defense gets into good position, tracks the oppostion, doesn't get stuck back, etc. The CPU defense doesn't swarm around the ball, plays a higher line, etc. In one match that I was watching, the player was winning 1-0 with Brazil vs Netherlands late in the game. He stole the ball and countered and Netherlands only had 1 player sitting back on D. That NEVER EVER happens in PES 2012.

Why couldn't Konami build off this foundation with more powerful raw procssing power in the next gen systems is beyong amazing to me.
 
Giving Pes 5 another go and am trying to find the least assisted way to play. What do you set your cursor on to be able to switch manually only? I am actually playing WE9 on the US PS2. Players still seem to get switched to whether I choose it or not.
 
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