The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[pj_puttz]

Even with a new engine and shiny new tech to play with there is no sign that Konami will up the budget to give us the football game we all want is there?

What about the crappy sound? The boring and dated Master League? The limited online play? The shoddy front end? The ridiculous "super cancel" system? The list goes on.

A new engine on new tech MIGHT be great or it MIGHT be a bug filled mess which will mean we'll have to wait ANOTHER year for Konami to MAYBE produce a decent football game but all of those if's, buts and maybe's aside who can say whether all the other many problems PES has will be addressed?

Are Konami going to finally throw some decent money into making PES or are we going to have to put up with the shoddy production values they've lumbered us with for years?

Will PES ever be a "AAA" title (a subjective term so no point arguing over it's meaning) or dont Konami think it's an important enough title to invest in?

We've put up with PES's poor production values for decades because the gameplay had that "magic" to it. Now that the "magic" has gone, what is left?

I looked forward to playing next gen PES when I paid hundreds of pounds for my PS3 only for Konami to not really bother their arse making a true next gen game. Now we're being told the NEXT gen game will be all bells and whistles but it's going to take more than a new engine to fix PES and turn it into a game worth paying £40 for PLUS the huge amount of cash the next gen tech is going to cost.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Even with a new engine and shiny new tech to play with there is no sign that Konami will up the budget to give us the football game we all want is there?

What about the crappy sound? The boring and dated Master League? The limited online play? The shoddy front end? The ridiculous "super cancel" system? The list goes on.

A new engine on new tech MIGHT be great or it MIGHT be a bug filled mess which will mean we'll have to wait ANOTHER year for Konami to MAYBE produce a decent football game but all of those if's, buts and maybe's aside who can say whether all the other many problems PES has will be addressed?

Are Konami going to finally throw some decent money into making PES or are we going to have to put up with the shoddy production values they've lumbered us with for years?

Will PES ever be a "AAA" title (a subjective term so no point arguing over it's meaning) or dont Konami think it's an important enough title to invest in?

We've put up with PES's poor production values for decades because the gameplay had that "magic" to it. Now that the "magic" has gone, what is left?

I looked forward to playing next gen PES when I paid hundreds of pounds for my PS3 only for Konami to not really bother their arse making a true next gen game. Now we're being told the NEXT gen game will be all bells and whistles but it's going to take more than a new engine to fix PES and turn it into a game worth paying £40 for PLUS the huge amount of cash the next gen tech is going to cost.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

The thing is this will be their 6th game on current console's (7th on 360) surly if they could make a good football game with this current engine we would of had it by now? SURLY? 5 years solid we have had awful sound as you say, 4 out of 5 have looked terrible, Lack of teams in Master League the list could go on and on so where is this new found optimism from some that Konami can now make a good football game? It's baffling.

With Konami it's always next year, next year will come and it will be next year yet again like its been for years now.

 

[pj_puttz]

The thing is this will be their 6th game on current console's (7th on 360) surly if they could make a good football game with this current engine we would of had it by now? SURLY? 5 years solid we have had awful sound as you say, 4 out of 5 have looked terrible, Lack of teams in Master League the list could go on and on so where is this new found optimism from some that Konami can now make a good football game? It's baffling.

Exactly! And now we're all supposed to applaud Konami and wet ourselves with excitement because they're finally just starting to do something they should have done YEARS ago with PES 2008? I dont fucking think so! I dont give a shit about PES 2014 or PES 2015 right now, not when the latest game is gathering dust after only 3 months and this year's game looks to be way down Konami's list of priorities!

With Konami it's always next year, next year will come and it will be next year yet again like its been for years now.

Yet there are STILL people out there who believe the hype year after year.

Well my optimism for the PES series has dried up. I simply dont believe it will get the radical overhaul and cash injection it so badly needs to bring it into line with modern gaming standards.

 

[Northzzz]

Exactly! And now we're all supposed to applaud Konami and wet ourselves with excitement because they're finally just starting to do something they should have done YEARS ago with PES 2008? I dont fucking think so! I dont give a shit about PES 2014 or PES 2015 right now, not when the latest game is gathering dust after only 3 months and this year's game looks to be way down Konami's list of priorities!

Then don't buy it man. It's great that as a human i have the choice to buy games or not. I imagine you are in quite a similar situation, in fact i'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar on it.

This thread turns to shit when it turns into a I'M NOT BUYING THIS GAME HOW DARE KONAMI NOT ABIDE BY MY EXPECTATIONS kind of thing rather than discussing the problems with the current game and potential improvements to the series. What is the point in bitching about it? What does it get you? Don't like the game, then don't buy it. You absolutely don't need this game to live and neither do i. I won't buy it if i think it's going to be shit (which i do so i doubt i'll buy it until Janvier of 2013 at least).

I'm ranting at the very least but it's because your type of comment is pretty unnecessary at best (as hypocritically this one may also be. I haven't decided yet.)

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Well my optimism for the PES series has dried up. I simply dont believe it will get the radical overhaul and cash injection it so badly needs to bring it into line with modern gaming standards.

Blimey stop being so melodramatic. No, PES hasn't been good enough on the current consoles, and no, PES2013 isn't going to be any great step forward for the series either. But basing your idea that because PES was largely rubbish on PS3 etc then it'll probably be rubbish on the next generation of consoles doesn't hold up. No-one knows whether it'll be any good or not of course, but the chances of PES being a game good enough for modern standards have just increased tenfold with the news that they're redeveloping their game from scratch and based around modern, up to date hardware.

PES was shit on current consoles because it used the engine from the PS2 days. That's a clear reason why the game wasn't and isn't up to scratch right now. But the fact that they are starting afresh and no longer bound by this ancient engine are reasons alone to be hopeful that the series can be turned around?

Like I said, no-one will know how well the game turns out until the consoles are released and we play the thing, but right now all the negativity about future games is a bit silly. I see where you're coming from, but what do you expect Konami to do from here? They're slated for using an old engine, then slated for ditching off the current games in favour of a fresh start on better hardware. They really can't win in this situation it seems.

 

[stephen]

@PJ

I think this is how I truly feel about the pro evo series.

As a consumer, I am interested in the here and now, and what can be done on this gen, not next gen.
I will not get a new system on release until it has been out for at least a year, giving developers the opportunity to develop games and for a price drop.


I think people are already put off with this years game, given that they are using the same engine, and we are only 8 or so months off release.

You never know we may be pleasently suprised!

Im just fed up!

 

[Sabac Red]

Read the last couple of pages, think im out for this year on PES the most i'll do for it is rent it out, doubt the demos will be of much help as we've seen this year.

Would of been nice for them to experiment with a new engine for 2013 cause they really need to build a base an know what direction the want to go for the next gen. It's no good writing off this gen and expecting everything to be rosey and easy on the next cause of new tech.

Hopefully they'll sort of pes as a product for 2013, if not then it shows what konami truly think of it's game and fan base.

Since switching to fifa 12 been happy, the game is not perfect and has it's faults but it's enjoyable, can't believe i'm at this point.

 

[TanMak]

Blimey stop being so melodramatic. No, PES hasn't been good enough on the current consoles, and no, PES2013 isn't going to be any great step forward for the series either. But basing your idea that because PES was largely rubbish on PS3 etc then it'll probably be rubbish on the next generation of consoles doesn't hold up. No-one knows whether it'll be any good or not of course, but the chances of PES being a game good enough for modern standards have just increased tenfold with the news that they're redeveloping their game from scratch and based around modern, up to date hardware.

PES was shit on current consoles because it used the engine from the PS2 days. That's a clear reason why the game wasn't and isn't up to scratch right now. But the fact that they are starting afresh and no longer bound by this ancient engine are reasons alone to be hopeful that the series can be turned around?

Like I said, no-one will know how well the game turns out until the consoles are released and we play the thing, but right now all the negativity about future games is a bit silly. I see where you're coming from, but what do you expect Konami to do from here? They're slated for using an old engine, then slated for ditching off the current games in favour of a fresh start on better hardware. They really can't win in this situation it seems.

Basing probable future performance on current and past ability is a heck of a lot more sound a rationale stance than expecting PES 2014/15/whatever to suddenly be a critically acclaimed or even a good title just because of whispers of a new engine. I have absolutely no faith in PES Productions and unless there is fundamental change in the development team of the game I expect more of the same. They also need to completely highly modernize and upgrade their overall standards.

I think Einstein's quip on insanity comes to play here. Heads need to roll & investment is sorely needed, this team is really quite pap!

The only way Konami can win is if they deliver, simple.

edit - I can't for the life of me understand where anyone's optimism on this series can come from

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Would of been nice for them to experiment with a new engine for 2013 cause they really need to build a base an know what direction the want to go for the next gen. It's no good writing off this gen and expecting everything to be rosey and easy on the next cause of new tech.

Yep, all PES games now are done on PC and ported to console's so it really doesnt make any sense to put it back yet another year unless what they have done thus far is awful as i mind Fifa 07 which was the first Fifa game with the new engine was pretty shit however i think we'd all rather see a new direction from Konami rather than the same old rubbish weve been getting for years.

 

[Jamezinho]

Basing probable future performance on current and past ability is a heck of a lot more sound a rationale stance than expecting PES 2014/15/whatever to suddenly be a critically acclaimed or even good title just because of whispers of a new engine. I have absolutely no faith in PES Productions and unless there is fundamental change in the development team of the game I expect more of the same. They also need to completely highly modernize and upgrade their overall standards.

I think Einstein's quip on insanity comes to play here. Heads need to roll & investment is sorely needed, this team is really quite pap!

The only way Konami can win is if they deliver, simple.

edit - I can't for the life of me understand where anyone's optimism on this series can come from

I agree, unfortunately. The current state of the series lies in the fact that PES, at its heart, is dated beyond the PS2 era. There has never been an overhaul of the game to date. Elements of the old ISS games on the PS1 are still evident in modern PES.

Can Konami revolutionise the PES series? Time will tell but my expectations are naturally low.

 

[TanMak]

I agree, unfortunately. The current state of the series lies in the fact that PES, at its heart, is dated beyond the PS2 era. There has never been an overhaul of the game to date. Elements of the old ISS games on the PS1 are still evident in modern PES.

Can Konami revolutionise the PES series? Time will tell but my expectations are naturally low.

I think it says a lot about PES's state of affairs when a former PES stalwart like yourself, Jameszinho, finally won't endorse the game (mind you many others too). It is what it is and the unfortunate thing is without a change of direction (overhauling dev team) and investing (like any sane company would) is the only way out for Konami. Two fundamental criteria konami are averse to.

It's sad for such a legendary series but here we are.

 

[pj_puttz]

@ LT54:

Tell you what, you sit there and keep believing everything is going to be OK with PES and I'll sit here and stick with my opinion that they have cheated this generation of PES gamers and the future looks equally bleak without proper investment. If you think that's "melodramatic" that's fine. I call it being realistic.


@ Northzzz:

Your previous posts are usually of much better quality than your "dont buy it then" rant. Just what exactly was your point there? That I SHOULDN'T be upset as a PES fan that the game has gone down the toilet? That I SHOULDN'T come to this thread and air my views on the state of Konami at the moment because you think it's pointless? That I have no right to be annoyed at the fact I dont have a decent PES game to play this year and most likely next year too? Not quite in the spirit of an open forum is it mate? If you think "bitching and moaning" is pointless dont do it but dont try to stop me or anyone else doing it, what gives you that right? If you dont like my rants on the state of PES dont read them or block me or whatever but dont post pointless, childish crap like "dont buy the game then". I am aware of that option, thanks. You basically came to a complaint thread to complain about someone complaining. Nice one.

YES, I am angry about the state of PES and YES I am worried about the future of PES. If you are not, that's OK. People are allowed to disagree on the internet.

 

[Northzzz]

@ LT54:

@ Northzzz:

Your previous posts are usually of much better quality than your "dont buy it then" rant. Just what exactly was your point there? That I SHOULDN'T be upset as a PES fan that the game has gone down the toilet? That I SHOULDN'T come to this thread and air my views on the state of Konami at the moment because you think it's pointless? That I have no right to be annoyed at the fact I dont have a decent PES game to play this year and most likely next year too? Not quite in the spirit of an open forum is it mate? If you think "bitching and moaning" is pointless dont do it but dont try to stop me or anyone else doing it, what gives you that right? If you dont like my rants on the state of PES dont read them or block me or whatever but dont post pointless, childish crap like "dont buy the game then". I am aware of that option, thanks. You basically came to a complaint thread to complain about someone complaining. Nice one.

YES, I am angry about the state of PES and YES I am worried about the future of PES. If you are not, that's OK. People are allowed to disagree on the internet.

The mid-season lull point here always annoys me and it's nothing about you personally that rustled my jimmies. This happens every year after the game has come out, we've discussed it pretty much to death the game and how it can/should improve and before any real news of the next game (ergo new discussion can be had). It descends into 'i have no faith in Konami at all', 'don't buy into the hype'and 'i'm not buying the game' (not that i'm quoting you, i'm just speaking broadly). I don't know it just a feels a bit pointless when threads descend into that kind of talk. It is borderline bitching for bitching's sake. Venting frustration so to speak. It's not that i don't feel the same way as you do at all.

I still stand by the 'if you don't like the game then don't buy it' point. I know that is pretty much thought of as a childish remark but it is true and i'd like to think i meant it in a less flippant way than most would (though looking back i didn't help my cause by being reactionary). If you feel like the series isn't moving forward and that supporting it isn't a good thing then it's a good option to exercise. Sometimes i get the feeling like people feel like they need to buy these games and when they don't work out the way they want they feel aggrieved in some way. Perhaps that's where i personally differ so it seems odd to me sometimes from an exterior perspective. If i really hated a game then i wouldn't buy it.

I think you, and everybody else, have the right to be annoyed at PES 2012 having bought it but if you feel strongly about the series and the next game (as you have suggested) then the best way to counter that is to not buy into the hype as you yourself said.

You can post what you like of course though. Feel free to think entirely differently to me too. If i offended you then sorry.

I think i'm being entirely hypocritical by posting this and the other post. Going off tangent if you will. It kind of affirms the mid-season lull point i made where we have nothing better to talk about. The last thing i want is to bicker between forum members though.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Basing probable future performance on current and past ability is a heck of a lot more sound a rationale stance than expecting PES 2014/15/whatever to suddenly be a critically acclaimed or even a good title just because of whispers of a new engine. I have absolutely no faith in PES Productions and unless there is fundamental change in the development team of the game I expect more of the same. They also need to completely highly modernize and upgrade their overall standards.

I think Einstein's quip on insanity comes to play here. Heads need to roll & investment is sorely needed, this team is really quite pap!

The only way Konami can win is if they deliver, simple.

edit - I can't for the life of me understand where anyone's optimism on this series can come from

Since when did I claim that a new engine will herald some kind of golden era for PES? I didn't. I just pointed out that for years people have moaned that the game desperately needs a new engine, now when they are finally getting one, on better hardware, people are both claiming that it's all but pointless because PES on this generation was shit and then also moaning that they aren't going to get this new engine this year.

Like I keep saying, next gen PES might be awful for all I know, but it has a greater chance of succeeding on new hardware with a brand new engine. That's all I'm saying. As for the wait, well, if Unchartered or Gran Turismo etc are released every several years then I can wait for PES to get up to speed. I don't understand why people find it acceptable for a game like Grand Theft Auto to take two or three years or more to ensure the next game will top the one before it, but if Konami decide to do the same then everyone is up in arms about it.

If next gen PES turns out to be brilliant then it will have been worth the wait. If its still shit then yeah, Konami are pretty much out of ideas.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Since when did I claim that a new engine will herald some kind of golden era for PES? I didn't. I just pointed out that for years people have moaned that the game desperately needs a new engine, now when they are finally getting one, on better hardware, people are both claiming that it's all but pointless because PES on this generation was shit and then also moaning that they aren't going to get this new engine this year.

They should never of said PES is going to be totally different in the coming year, Adam shouldnt of banged on about this new engine until it was 100% sure they were going to use it. Surly you can understand why people are a little miffed from finally having a true nxt-gen PES coming out to yet another PS2 engined game 8 years after the 360 came out. Is it the case it was all just PR bullshit to try and get fans to remain on board after the disappointing PES 2012?

 

[henrys hand]

Since when did I claim that a new engine will herald some kind of golden era for PES? I didn't. I just pointed out that for years people have moaned that the game desperately needs a new engine, now when they are finally getting one, on better hardware, people are both claiming that it's all but pointless because PES on this generation was shit and then also moaning that they aren't going to get this new engine this year.

Like I keep saying, next gen PES might be awful for all I know, but it has a greater chance of succeeding on new hardware with a brand new engine. That's all I'm saying. As for the wait, well, if Unchartered or Gran Turismo etc are released every several years then I can wait for PES to get up to speed. I don't understand why people find it acceptable for a game like Grand Theft Auto to take two or three years or more to ensure the next game will top the one before it, but if Konami decide to do the same then everyone is up in arms about it.

If next gen PES turns out to be brilliant then it will have been worth the wait. If its still shit then yeah, Konami are pretty much out of ideas.

Good point, but I can also understand the ones disappointed that PES 2013 doesn't get the new engine. After all people waited for it for five years to materialise, buying wrong hope year after year, only to be told that the new engine will be saved exclusively for the next generation.

Five years of waiting, now another two years on top, that is alot of time and expensive it will be, too. Buying a new console at the start? I know I won't buy it until perhaps a year or two later, after pricedrops and after some interesting games beside PES appeared.

If I were Konami, I would have developed and released PES 2013 with that new engine, of course downscaled here and there to fit, and PES 2014 as well with that new engine on PS3/Xbox360. After all we invested in this gen and aren't going to jump to the next in 2013 and we deserve a worthy PES-game for all the unworthy PES-games we bought.

So the disappointment right now is beyond merely understandable.

 

[Antok7]

pure terrible game, im done with it now, i emailed konami earlier.

"Hi,
I have been a loyal customer of your pes series ever since Hyper Soccer on the snes, I have bought , played & enjoyed every version up until & including pes 6, If your idea of perfection is simulating the frustration of the game of soccer well congratulations. I am done buying & playing this sub standard offering. it is as far from a game that I can find.
Please could you send me a postal address as I wish to rid myself of every copy of the series.

Regards,
"

 

[TanMak]

Well you did start the insinuating here

but the chances of PES being a game good enough for modern standards have just increased tenfold with the news that they're redeveloping their game from scratch and based around modern, up to date hardware.

But the fact that they are starting afresh and no longer bound by this ancient engine are reasons alone to be hopeful that the series can be turned around?

but right now all the negativity about future games is a bit silly. I see where you're coming from, but what do you expect Konami to do from here? They're slated for using an old engine, then slated for ditching off the current games in favour of a fresh start on better hardware. They really can't win in this situation it seems.

Then you replied by clearly insinuating grounds for positivity on the series based on new engine whispers from a very 'loose' source whilst stating it silly to have no faith in PES Production's ability based on past/present performance (which has been steadily appalling). Come now! Where are these 'news'

Also, I expect Konami to put up or shut up. This is about money so if you are producing rubbish than expect a backlash. If you are taking full purchase price for a product you even later state was below par and is evidently so (although Seabass seems to have learnt to lie about this since) I can only reply with contempt for the product. They take money for badly working incomplete software and proceed to lie about future horizons. It's all on them to sort this whole mess, they deserve no sympathy. It's their business decision which we rightly spit at as consumers.

I just pointed out that for years people have moaned that the game desperately needs a new engine, now when they are finally getting one, on better hardware, people are both claiming that it's all but pointless because PES on this generation was shit and then also moaning that they aren't going to get this new engine this year.

Makes sense, past and present performance is a pretty logical method of assumption than basing it all on an unqualified fantasy scenario of a super save quality engine from a poor poor production team. People have not said a new engine is pointless, they are simply stating it has been long demanded and the poor standards we have been subjected to leave us doubtful of success without critical changes in PES Productions. The game is in a dramatically poor state and it seems only drastic action is pertinent. I've always said it and I will again, PES/Konami have it all to prove so if you are annoyed with people's views on the matter than go ahead but if you don't care to understand the reasons of frustration then there will be no amicability & you'll continue being annoyed.

Like I keep saying, next gen PES might be awful for all I know, but it has a greater chance of succeeding on new hardware with a brand new engine. That's all I'm saying. As for the wait, well, if Unchartered or Gran Turismo etc are released every several years then I can wait for PES to get up to speed. I don't understand why people find it acceptable for a game like Grand Theft Auto to take two or three years or more to ensure the next game will top the one before it, but if Konami decide to do the same then everyone is up in arms about it.

If next gen PES turns out to be brilliant then it will have been worth the wait. If its still shit then yeah, Konami are pretty much out of ideas.

Well some of us have been calling for this 'engine' for years and that's what we've been saying. Is it coming or not? Probably but the engine alone won't save the franchise without critical changes from an investment and personnel standpoint. It used to be a case of only requiring a new engine, it's now reached a state where konami/PES prod's have displayed no direction or leadership or even any talent that a new engine in the wrong hands is pointless. The engine would be a start but doubt it would be the answer on it's own with the lack of talent evident.

Also, Sport titles are consumed differently to the titles you mentioned so let's not try be too idealistic. Quite frankly it sounds like you are waiting for a super save engine which is unlikely unless true change in personal and investment is made, until then it's all continuity & window dressing.

The problem is Konami, not the consumer. It's critiquing should do nothing to you no matter how severe or inept.

 

[lancers]

Even with a new engine and shiny new tech to play with there is no sign that Konami will up the budget to give us the football game we all want is there?

What about the crappy sound? The boring and dated Master League? The limited online play? The shoddy front end? The ridiculous "super cancel" system? The list goes on.

A new engine on new tech MIGHT be great or it MIGHT be a bug filled mess which will mean we'll have to wait ANOTHER year for Konami to MAYBE produce a decent football game but all of those if's, buts and maybe's aside who can say whether all the other many problems PES has will be addressed?

Are Konami going to finally throw some decent money into making PES or are we going to have to put up with the shoddy production values they've lumbered us with for years?

Will PES ever be a "AAA" title (a subjective term so no point arguing over it's meaning) or dont Konami think it's an important enough title to invest in?

We've put up with PES's poor production values for decades because the gameplay had that "magic" to it. Now that the "magic" has gone, what is left?

I looked forward to playing next gen PES when I paid hundreds of pounds for my PS3 only for Konami to not really bother their arse making a true next gen game. Now we're being told the NEXT gen game will be all bells and whistles but it's going to take more than a new engine to fix PES and turn it into a game worth paying £40 for PLUS the huge amount of cash the next gen tech is going to cost.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Right my brother. In the words of a great man.

YouTube - President Bush -- Fool me Once

 

[lancers]

Blimey stop being so melodramatic. No, PES hasn't been good enough on the current consoles, and no, PES2013 isn't going to be any great step forward for the series either. But basing your idea that because PES was largely rubbish on PS3 etc then it'll probably be rubbish on the next generation of consoles doesn't hold up. No-one knows whether it'll be any good or not of course, but the chances of PES being a game good enough for modern standards have just increased tenfold with the news that they're redeveloping their game from scratch and based around modern, up to date hardware.

PES was shit on current consoles because it used the engine from the PS2 days. That's a clear reason why the game wasn't and isn't up to scratch right now. But the fact that they are starting afresh and no longer bound by this ancient engine are reasons alone to be hopeful that the series can be turned around?

Like I said, no-one will know how well the game turns out until the consoles are released and we play the thing, but right now all the negativity about future games is a bit silly. I see where you're coming from, but what do you expect Konami to do from here? They're slated for using an old engine, then slated for ditching off the current games in favour of a fresh start on better hardware. They really can't win in this situation it seems.

I agree you have to wait to see what the next installment brings before passing any judgment but let me ask you this. It looks like more than a few think this gen bit hard so what makes you think that after 5 consecutive pretty much suck a$$ games on the 3 that the people who couldn't figure this much out after 5 years will know WTF they are doing on the 4 or the new Box?

 

[arthurm]

The boring and dated Master League? The limited online play?

Yeah, the pathetic ML has been complained about for the past 10 years and they've not even implemented a simple, realistic league structure. It would be technically so easy to build, and just fill up the leagues with unlicensed, fake teams....but no, the same old crap year after year. That, to me, is not a good sign. They don't seem to appreciate what we want. Or is it just us Brits that want that. Perhaps the rest of the world, incl Japan, don't care about league structures with promotion/relegation, the idea of building a minor team from Div 4 and trying to reach Div 1 and Europe?

And on-line play is such a huge element to gaming thesedays, yet PES still fails to deliver where FIFA had excellent 5v5 about 4 years ago. Again, not a good sign as to their abilities or priorities.

It's only the fact that PES is a football game, and not another less popular sport, that keeps the sales at a credible, if sharply falling, level. If PES had 10 years ago been a great basketball, and had technically fallen to the level it's at now, it would probably be making a few thousand sales.

 

[lancers]

I'm not a developer just play all types of games have for over 20 years so I know what I like and don't like. PES is unpleasant to look at.

2008-2010 look just about the same graphically. 2011-2012 look the same. Hate to break it to you but 2011-2012 is the best they got to offer. This is the new engine or whatever you want to call it. I won't be deluded into thinking that they have the developer's kits for MS and Sony now and are feverishly working on the new game. there comes a time when you gotta hang it up. I think that time has long since passed for the PES team. Get some new blood and change the name.

 

[curdstar]

They should never of said PES is going to be totally different in the coming year, Adam shouldnt of banged on about this new engine until it was 100% sure they were going to use it. Surly you can understand why people are a little miffed from finally having a true nxt-gen PES coming out to yet another PS2 engined game 8 years after the 360 came out. Is it the case it was all just PR bullshit to try and get fans to remain on board after the disappointing PES 2012?

Now that is bullshit. For all that you and others might think about PES and it's tech, to say this or the last game were built using a PS2 engine is utter bullshit. It might be limited and yes, ugly but a PS2 engine? Nope.

As for the moronic ''PR bullshit'' comment, what in the hell would be gained from talking about a new engine for PES2013 - which was never officially said by Konami and was in fact hinted at by more than one source - in December, for comment then to be made that it might not be the case after all in January?

Wow! A whole six weeks of speculation months before the game is officially announced! That really is a sound PR move isn't it? The more you post these wild conspiracies, the more it becomes apparent that you quite simply are very naive and ramp everything up to more than what it really merits.

As for folk suggesting that others shouldn't buy the game, as if to infer that those who do are somehow accountable for the games quality, they really are being somewhat melodramatic.

It's pretty straightforward as far as I am concerned - I and I am certain many others love the PES franchise and know of late it hasn't reached it's previous high standards in years past, though we can still play and enjoy PES2012, albeit in shorter bursts. Nothing wrong with that and it is up to the individual what they they do with their disposable income and everybody has their own ''level of risk'' when considering what they spend said disposable income on.

Others love the franchise as well but are not enamoured by the latest game(s) whatsoever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with seeing it that way because the fact is PES hasn't offered that stable, consistent experience that was apparent in the PS2 years. Nothing wrong with that and it is up to the individual what they they do with their disposable income and everybody has their own ''level of risk'' when considering what they spend said disposable income on.

I know when I make any game or gaming related purchase I do so with my disposable income. There really is no right or wrong way of ''doing it'' and call it selfish but I don't care if others think I am spending my money on the wrong bloody engine; I am certainly not accountable for others enjoyment or the future of a franchise with my single purchase.

When I played the demo's for PES2008,2009 and 2010 I pretty much knew what was probably going to be in store and let's just say I knew it wasn't going to be the finest PES/football game ever created but I still bought them because I could afford to consider what the full games had to offer; do that with loads of games in different genres to be honest. Sometimes I get what I saw coming or sometimes I am surprised like when I played the Yakuza 3 and 4 demos and thought I would never find myself buying them but ended up doing exactly that and rank Yakuza 3 as one of the best games I have played in this or any generation, lack of ''AAA'' values and all. The discovery is part of the fun for me in gaming, whether that discovery is for better or worse. I don't think I have truly regretted a game purchase for a long time in spite of buying some games I ended up not liking.

I have a passion for football games that goes back to the early 80's a tended to buy them/have them bought for me regardless of what the buzz was surrounding them. Yes, that would include Peter Shilton's ''Handball Maradona!'' on Commodore 64 - a game which really was the first football videogame in which you played as the keeper in what could be loosely described as an interactive highlight reel.

I bought the really, really bad FIFA games knowing fine well that an Actua Soccer, SWOS, ISS, ISS Pro or PES were or would be far superior at the time, but I still felt compelled to try them out and more often than not found myself agreeing with the opinion that they were garbage. Guess I and the many others who bought it back when it was truly awful can be thanked for destroying FIFA. Oh, wait..

As for PES2013, I don't know if it will be any good...because I haven't played it yet but I demand/expect it to be better than PES2012 for no other reason than that is what I want from it regardless of what I think of PES2012. I will also carry this mindset looking towards FIFA13 - I will consider what they have to offer, play the demo and probably regardless of what I think I will still give the full game a run out by buying it. It won't mean I am weak, damaging/enhancing the franchise if I do purchase and only means I have a PS3/360 under my telly and I bought a game for it I want to play.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Now that is bullshit. For all that you and others might think about PES and it's tech, to say this or the last game were built using a PS2 engine is utter bullshit. It might be limited and yes, ugly but a PS2 engine? Nope.

So it's a brand new nxt-gen engine? No chance! It's certainly not a new engine built from the ground up as it is as clear as day for all to see that the game is running on an extremely dated engine which is at breaking point.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

They should never of said PES is going to be totally different in the coming year, Adam shouldnt of banged on about this new engine until it was 100% sure they were going to use it. Surly you can understand why people are a little miffed from finally having a true nxt-gen PES coming out to yet another PS2 engined game 8 years after the 360 came out. Is it the case it was all just PR bullshit to try and get fans to remain on board after the disappointing PES 2012?

In Adam's defence, it probably was a 'final' decision he reported back. I seriously wouldn't blame him for the fact that Konami changed their minds on this. That's just the video game industry, the stuff I hear from some friends who work in the industry makes me wonder how they ever get a game out at all. Games companies change their minds at any stage, even late on, so to blame Adam is a bit unfair there.

 

[lancers]

In Adam's defence, it probably was a 'final' decision he reported back. I seriously wouldn't blame him for the fact that Konami changed their minds on this. That's just the video game industry, the stuff I hear from some friends who work in the industry makes me wonder how they ever get a game out at all. Games companies change their minds at any stage, even late on, so to blame Adam is a bit unfair there.

Why would a company who just released 2012 feel the need to even talk up next year's version. Can they actually think they have just released another pos yet again? That is shameful on so many levels.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Why would a company who just released 2012 feel the need to even talk up next year's version. Can they actually think they have just released another pos yet again? That is shameful on so many levels.

Talk it up and then talk it down

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I agree you have to wait to see what the next installment brings before passing any judgment but let me ask you this. It looks like more than a few think this gen bit hard so what makes you think that after 5 consecutive pretty much suck a$$ games on the 3 that the people who couldn't figure this much out after 5 years will know WTF they are doing on the 4 or the new Box?

Like I keep saying, we don't know if Konami will be able to make another great game on next gen hardware. I totally understand the scepticism and mistrust. But, as someone else implied earlier, I'm in no way implying that I think it'll be a huge success. I just think that a new engine and new hardware represents an opportunity, nothing more or less at this stage, to start afresh.

I have no clue why Konami went down the cheap route on current consoles and tried squeezing a current gen game into a past generation engine designed for PS2. It baffles me. I'm just remaining optimistic that now those shackles will hopefully be removed from the series that they can be free to create something good again.

I think there's a greater chance of this happening if Konami take their time to redevelop the game from scratch, rather than rushing to get it out this year. Who knows, they may yet continue in the same way as recent games and mess it up again, but at least a new engine will provide some potential for the series.

Yes, current gen PES is a mess. And yes, despite this their marketing dept will still talk up the game every year. That's just business. But if the next gen games turn out to be really good, then I personally won't give a shit what happened in the past. I just want a decent football game and if it delivers on the next consoles then so be it. That doesn't change my opinion on the current state of PES being a shambles though.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I have no clue why Konami went down the cheap route on current consoles and tried squeezing a current gen game into a past generation engine designed for PS2. It baffles me. I'm just remaining optimistic that now those shackles will hopefully be removed from the series that they can be free to create something good again.

It has to be because the engine was so good on PS2 they thought it would be fine on these current console's but both the PS3 and 360 are completely different to the PS2 and the port is just across is just awful...They should of seen this with PES 2008 or even 2009 and brought us a proper nxt-gen title instead of persisting with it.

 

[pj_puttz]

It's pretty straightforward as far as I am concerned - I and I am certain many others love the PES franchise and know of late it hasn't reached it's previous high standards in years past, though we can still play and enjoy PES2012, albeit in shorter bursts.

So you are happy to pay full price for a game which has consistently struggled to achieve mediocrity over the last few years. A game you dont really play that often or for very long. Fair enough. Like you say, it's your money. Personally I think we as loyal PES customers deserve better than that for our £40 but maybe I'm just fussy or maybe I dont have as much disposal income as you and therefore cant afford to throw away £40 on a game I'll hardly ever play.

I bought the really, really bad FIFA games knowing fine well that an Actua Soccer, SWOS, ISS, ISS Pro or PES were or would be far superior at the time, but I still felt compelled to try them out and more often than not found myself agreeing with the opinion that they were garbage. Guess I and the many others who bought it back when it was truly awful can be thanked for destroying FIFA. Oh, wait...

As you well know, FIFA was absolutely SHIT for years but people like you and me still bought the games. How on earth is that NOT contributing to maintaining the poor quality of the game? The only defence we have as consumers against companies like Konami and EA becoming lazy is NOT BUYING THE GAME. They wont care about review scores or guys like me ranting on forums so long as the cash keeps rolling in. FIFA only got it's act together fairly recently when it started to overtake PES as the top football game. How did they do that? They invested a shit load of cash into it and probably employed a talented new team.
That is exactly what Konami need to do right now. FIFA may not have been "destroyed" but it's still not a great football game and it will never have to be so long as people keep buying tweaked yearly updates.
EA rose to the challenge of PES and is now wiping the floor with it in terms of sales while Konami have done NOTHING in response. They haven't even bothered trying to make a proper next gen PES title FFS.

FIFA and PES have cornered the market so games like Actua Soccer or SWOS dont exist anymore because they cannot compete with the big two. This has made them lazy and led to them treating their loyal customers with no small amount of contempt.

FIFA might be a pretty average or even poor game but at least EA are still TRYING to improve. WTF are Konami doing? They may not have the same budget as EA but they could invest a bit more in their product. But then again why should they when people are content to spend £40 on their cheap, half arsed efforts?

My annoyance isn't directed at you Curds or LT54 or anyone else on here. It's directed at Konami and this is where I have come to vent. I'm fed up with the status quo EA and Konami seem so content to wallow in and I'm fed up not having a decent football game to play on the console I spent over 300 fucking quid on!

Rant over.......for now!