The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[henrys hand]

Doesn't the fact that Konami have destroyed PES on this generation of tech make you a wee bit pissed off at them?

Yes, I am a little bit, but we are adults, we are responsible for ourselves for what we buy. We've got the demos and still bought the game year after year, well not every year: PES 2008, PES 2009 I didn't buy, I bought PES 2010 only because of the awesome graphics, lol! And I bought PES 2011 because I didn't like Fifa 11 and I wanted a new football game.

The only PES I bought and downrightly regretted as money thrown out the window is PES 2012, because Fifa 12 is handsdown way better in nearly every aspect.

Given how much I disliked Fifa 10 and Fifa 11, it needed some time for Fifa 12 to win me over, but the precision dribbling, the new defense-mechanism and the great ballphysics and espescially the slider-possibilities convinced me eventually.

So I guess I will just stick with Fifa 12 until PES 2014 on PS4/xbox 360 comes along, and if Fifa 13 offers some nice key-improvements I will buy that when it reaches budget-price.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

When was PES ever an AAA series?

PES 1-6 were triple A games. ISS on Snes also.

 

[Northzzz]

PES 1-6 were triple A games. ISS on Snes also.

Yeah. Okay man.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Yeah. Okay man.

You were not a fan of the series until nxt-gen?

 

[P34SEMM]

Just filled out that pes online thing.

First question is: Do you own PES12 and you tick A)Yes or B)No

Would have been better to have had the below answers as options:

A) Yes
B) No; Never owned it
C) Rented it but decided not to buy it.
D) Bought it and then traded it.

I wonder how many people would have chosen D

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

The PES games were massively popular but never AAA in terms of production etc. Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy etc were all AAA on PS2 but I wouldn't say PES has ever been such a title. I guess I'm just hopeful that a little time off to make the game from scratch, without any limits imposed by old engines etc, can elevate the game to the closest it's been to the top titles out there. But who knows. Konami could use the extra development time to make something special, or it might turn out to be an absolute turd of a game. Either way it's going to make or break the series.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

The PES games were massively popular but never AAA in terms of production etc. Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy etc were all AAA on PS2 but I wouldn't say PES has ever been such a title. I guess I'm just hopeful that a little time off to make the game from scratch, without any limits imposed by old engines etc, can elevate the game to the closest it's been to the top titles out there. But who knows. Konami could use the extra development time to make something special, or it might turn out to be an absolute turd of a game. Either way it's going to make or break the series.

AAA is determined by ratings, PES on PS2 was always in the 90's in the reviews.

After the shock of PES 2013 is going to be yet another archaic title im amazed that people think that Konami have never produced a AAA football title.

 

[Northzzz]

AAA is determined by ratings, PES on PS2 was always in the 90's in the reviews.

After the shock of PES 2013 is going to be yet another archaic title im amazed that people think that Konami have never produced a AAA football title.

I think we just have a different perception of an AAA game

I don't think good equates to AAA title. I use the term AAA exclusive for 'blockbuster' type games. Games with a big budget, trying to appeal to as many people as possible.

You were not a fan of the series until nxt-gen?

I had 1, 3, 4, 5 and 6

6 is the only one i'd suggest was an AAA title at all. I think their ideology with that game was trying to appeal to as many people as possible and IIRC the marketing for that game was a lot more than others. I don't think it was a good game compared to 5 either. For what it's worth i honestly think the popularity of PES titles was due to there being no good alternative. If Fifa was a good game back in the old day i don't think PES would have been as popular and sold as many at all regardless of the fact it was a good game. Of course it still would have sold well relatively.

I subscribe that to a lot of skewed perceptions that PES is doing absymally in comparison to Fifa. The truth is that Fifa sales are through the roof due to the new casual demographic that seems to have come about this gen. Yeah if Pes was better it would sell more but i still think Fifa would be miles ahead in terms of sales. I honestly don't think of them as rivals in the same way. Fifa has the licenses and therefore has the casual market. When we get reports that it's selling 25:1 i have to ask why and i do honestly think it has a lot to do with Fifa appealing to a new market. If Pes was a fantastic game i still think it'd be like 25:8.

If you need an analogy then Arma is a good series now but it still sells badly in comparison to COD (if even only taking into account PC).

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I think we just have a different perception of an AAA game

I don't think good equates to AAA title. I use the term AAA exclusive for 'blockbuster' type games. Games with a big budget, trying to appeal to as many people as possible.

Well look at Alan Wake for example...was built up to be AAA game, 5 years in development and MS threw millions into it but the reviews where not as expected and ended up averaging just over 80%. No one considers Alan Wake as a AAA title now.

Again GT5 years of dev time millions poured into it and once the game is out and didnt receive the expected reviews it's no longer considered a AAA title.

For AAA it has to do extremely well by the critics which PES had always done before the disaster this gen.

 

[Northzzz]

Well look at Alan Wake for example...was built up to be AAA game, 5 years in development and MS threw millions into it but the reviews where not as expected and ended up averaging just over 80%. No one considers Alan Wake as a AAA title now.

Again GT5 years of dev time millions poured into it and once the game is out and didnt receive the expected reviews it's no longer considered a AAA title.

For AAA it has to do extremely well by the critics which PES had always done before the disaster this gen.

You're not going to sell me on that opinion. That'd be like saying some of the most critically revered films in the history of cinema are AAA titles, which they of course aren't.

Limbo has 90 on metacritic but if you're arguing that an indie game is an AAA game then i don't even know.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

You're not going to sell me on that opinion. That'd be like saying some of the most critically revered films in the history of cinema are AAA titles, which they of course aren't.

Limbo has 90 on metacritic but if you're arguing that an indie game is an AAA game then i don't even know.

Limbo is most definitely a AAA indie game, Surly your not saying Alan Wake or GT5 are AAA games as going by your logic it would mean they are

 

[curdstar]

You're not going to sell me on that opinion. That'd be like saying some of the most critically revered films in the history of cinema are AAA titles, which they of course aren't.

Limbo has 90 on metacritic but if you're arguing that an indie game is an AAA game then i don't even know.

No, you are absolutely correct Northzzz. An AAA title is not one that scores well, but one in which a publisher often puts it's full marketing might behind as well as putting money into their development. A lot of money.

Assassin's Creed
Call of Duty
Grand Theft Auto
Final Fantasy
Gran Turismo
FIFA

These are examples of bona fide AAA games. Note also that these games have the ability to enter the conscience of non-gamers and even though they may never actually play them, they are aware of them. note, I say they can have the ability, not that it is the rule.

Scores more often than not tend to be good for AAA games but the score is really inconsequential. Dead Space happened to score great and happened to have great production values yet was still not considered AAA, particularly by it's publisher.

 

[Jamezinho]

Again GT5 years of dev time millions poured into it and once the game is out and didnt receive the expected reviews it's no longer considered a AAA title.

Come on now, don't be silly.

The Gran Turismo series is about as AAA as it gets. People buy Playstations just to play it. GT5 has sold over seven million copies. The public awareness and perception of the Gran Turismo brand is as strong as anything in the gaming world. GT6 will be right up there with the most anticipated games due on the next generation of consoles.

You're going to need a better example I'm afraid.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Come on now, don't be silly.

The Gran Turismo series is about as AAA as it gets. People buy Playstations just to play it. GT5 has sold over seven million copies. The public awareness and perception of the Gran Turismo brand is as strong as anything in the gaming world. GT6 will be right up there with the most anticipated games due on the next generation of consoles.

You're going to need a better example I'm afraid.

Critically GT5 is not AAA material, The series was but your only as good as your last game...Sure it sold well but the majority of gamers did not think GT5 was a AAA game and neither did the reviewers.

 

[Jamezinho]

Critically GT5 is not AAA material. It was a huge let down on the PS3 infact very similar to PES although not as bad.

You're spectacularly missing the point. AAA doesn't necessarily equate to review scores. Anyway, GT5 is 84 on Metacritic. Not bad as such, although below Polyphony Digital's usual standard, but one 'bad' game doesn't relegate a franchise from the 'AAA' club.

Gran Turismo would need to experience a prolonged period of poor reviews and sales to get any where near losing AAA status, and that's not going to happen any time soon.

 

[romagnoli]

AAA can mean both - initially I posted above that it was about budget or production values, but if you look AAA up it actually covers quality as well. But then, quality can refer to production values too, so...

I've always seen it as budgetary, rather than about critical reception. But they often go hand in hand in the games industry, certainly more than the film industry, because games are often still created by people who are technicians first and artists/visionaries second. You get plenty of exceptions but there's still a trend.

By those criteria, no, PES has never been AAA. FIFA certainly is.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

You're spectacularly missing the point. AAA doesn't necessarily equate to review scores. Anyway, GT5 is 84 on Metacritic. Not bad as such, although below Polyphony Digital's usual standard, but one 'bad' game doesn't relegate a franchise from the 'AAA' club.

Gran Turismo would need to experience a prolonged period of poor reviews and sales to get any where near losing AAA status, and that's not going to happen any time soon.

As i said AAA to me means review scores at 90% and above, If it just comes down to Money and Dev time which you guys are suggesting that means games like Alan Wake, Killzone, LA Noir and Too Human are AAA game which is just nonsense.

 

[curdstar]

Critically GT5 is not AAA material, The series was but your only as good as your last game...Sure it sold well but the majority of gamers did not think GT5 was a AAA game and neither did the reviewers.

I refuse to accept that you are this simple.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the games reception by reviewers. Going by your logic, the latest Final Fantasy isn't AAA because the last one scored bad. Utter nonsense of course.

You really are obsessed with reviews aren't you.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I refuse to accept that you are this simple.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the games reception by reviewers. Going by your logic, the latest Final Fantasy isn't AAA because the last one scored bad. Utter nonsense of course.

You really are obsessed with reviews aren't you.

Seems im not the only one that thinks this...this poll shows that my thought is the 2nd most popular answer...Fud

http://www.moddb.com/polls/game-becomes-truly-aaa-only-when

The lastest Final Fantasy defo wasnt a AAA game far far from it.

Aye pure obsessed, Some of them are funny though especially your PES reviews they crack me up each year...What was the scores you dished out again? 8's? Nor infact 9/10 for both PES 11 and PES 12...Brilliant. How much of a back hander did you get for those reviews?

 

[Ameppe]

AAA is all about budget. If a game has a big development budget (like FF XIII, GT5, Mass effect series) it's an AAA game.
Pes has never been an AAA game because konami never invested a big budget in Pes development

 

[Jamezinho]

As i said AAA to me means review scores at 90% and above, If it just comes down to Money and Dev time which you guys are suggesting that means games like Alan Wake, Killzone, LA Noir and Too Human are AAA game which is just nonsense.

I concur with Alan, you're talking rubbish. You have no idea what AAA means other than your own definition.

All those games you listed are very much AAA. By contrast no indie game can be considered as such. It's not about review scores, it's about big budgets, marketing and public consciousness. It's mainstream appeal.

Like a big budget blockbuster movie, it doesn't have to receive critical acclaim.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I concur with Alan, you're talking rubbish. You have no idea what AAA means other than your own definition.

All those games you listed are very much AAA. By contrast no indie game can be considered as such. It's not about review scores, it's about big budgets, marketing and public consciousness. It's mainstream appeal.

Like a big budget blockbuster movie, it doesn't have to receive critical acclaim.

Ok you think Too Human is AAA thats fine, I dont.

Going by this poll your big budget is the 5th most popular answer that people relate to what AAA means, While my review scores is the 2nd

http://www.moddb.com/polls/game-becomes-truly-aaa-only-when

There is no right or wrong answer but to suggest im talking rubbish when clearly people also think the same is downright rude.

 

[curdstar]

Ok you think Too Human is AAA thats fine, I dont.

Going by this poll your big budget is the 5th most popular answer that people relate to what AAA means, While my review scores is the 2nd

http://www.moddb.com/polls/game-becomes-truly-aaa-only-when

There is no right or wrong answer but to suggest im talking rubbish when clearly people also think the same is downright rude.

There was also a poll among republican voters which asked if they thought Barrack Obama was the anti-christ and 1/4 of those asked believed that this was so. I guess they can't be wrong.

What you have posted is poll on a website which asks what people think AAA is. It doesn't mean they are right - it just means they voted on what they thought it was. There is nothing in that poll that suggests that they believe they are right in their assertions.

A few posts back you called Limbo a ''aaa indie title'' which is an oxymoron.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

There was also a poll among republican voters which asked if they thought Barrack Obama was the anti-christ and 1/4 of those asked believed that this was so. I guess they can't be wrong.

What you have posted is poll on a website which asks what people think AAA is. It doesn't mean they are right - it just means they voted on what they thought it was. There is nothing in that poll that suggests that they believe they are right in their assertions.

A few posts back you called Limbo a ''aaa indie title'' which is an oxymoron.

PES 2013 - 9/10?

I refuse to accept that you think PES 2011 or 2012 are 9/10 games, how come your review gives out a AAA score?

 

[Jamezinho]

PES 2013 - 9/10?

You can do better than that now, surely? Or can you?

 

[curdstar]

PES 2013 - 9/10?

You somehow manage to take my reviews far more seriously than I and just about everybody else does. Flattering but ultimately creepy.

You always bring up my score as though it was an exception when there was more than my review that scored it a 9.

Earlier on, you said that after having tried both demos again you have come to the conclusion that both games ''are shit'' yet your own little scores in your sig offer scores that just about every reviewer would consider worthy for a good game. Really? 7 is poor or ''shit''? I think you will find anything sub 5 would be deemed poor or shit.

You are obsessed with the numbers given in reviews. Scores are so subjective. I know from experience that Oblivion is not a 10 for me but at the same time I know it was a 10 regards level of recommendation. Within the context of my review, the 9 follows similar suit - I strongly recommended players try it out; I didn't order them to. I have never felt ''ordered'' to try a game by a review but I can appreciate the recommendation offered by the body of the text - the really important part - in a review but even then I can find myself disagreeing but I don't take exception to the review as a result.

''a AAA score'' - still operating on that bizarre logic are we?

Explain this to me - why do publishers sometimes offer press releases or have their marketing team describe an upcoming game/movie as a AAA title that is in the works? By your logic they have assigned the critical acclaim before it's release.

 

[romagnoli]

You can do better than that now, surely? Or can you?

Believe me, he can't.

 

[Jamezinho]

Believe me, he can't.

I expected more from a "genuis" (sic).

Or is that the second layer of irony in his username?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

You somehow manage to take my reviews far more seriously than I and just about everybody else does. Flattering but ultimately creepy.

You always bring up my score as though it was an exception when there was more than my review that scored it a 9.

Earlier on, you said that after having tried both demos again you have come to the conclusion that both games ''are shit'' yet your own little scores in your sig offer scores that just about every reviewer would consider worthy for a good game. Really? 7 is poor or ''shit''? I think you will find anything sub 5 would be deemed poor or shit.

You are obsessed with the numbers given in reviews. Scores are so subjective. I know from experience that Oblivion is not a 10 for me but at the same time I know it was a 10 regards level of recommendation. Within the context of my review, the 9 follows similar suit - I strongly recommended players try it out; I didn't order them to. I have never felt ''ordered'' to try a game by a review but I can appreciate the recommendation offered by the body of the text - the really important part - in a review but even then I can find myself disagreeing but I don't take exception to the review as a result.

''a AAA score'' - still operating on that bizarre logic are we?

Explain this to me - why do publishers sometimes offer press releases or have their marketing team describe an upcoming game/movie as a AAA title that is in the works? By your logic they have assigned the critical acclaim before it's release.

Of course it's PR Spin to try and get better reviews, They are not going to come out and say there game is not AAA but infact merely an A. You guys seem pretty obsessed by movies...i have not heard the term AAA to describe a movie once and this is where your getting confused by "blockbuster" & AAA they are not the same thing.

Believe me, he can't.

I expected more from a "genuis" (sic).

Or is that the second layer of irony in his username?

 

[Shikashi]

Triple A is a nonsense PR term, nothing else. And it means high production values. That is all.