The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[pj_puttz]

So Konami have effectively given up on this generation of consoles as far as football games are concerned then? Great. In a few short months they have utterly destroyed the reputation of what used to be the king of football games.

That's if, and it's a big IF, Adam is right about the fact there wont be a new engine. First time for everything I suppose.

I just cant wait for those "exciting announcements" about PES 2013 though can you? Just WTF is going to "excite" us when we're stuck with the same old broken engine as before?

Let's face it, we're getting PES 2012 version 2.0 this October and frankly Konami can stick that right up their collective dirtbox.

 

[Ameppe]

 

[ftgpete]

Well can PES improve stuff like the catch up bug, cursor switching, unresposive defenders, animation lock ups, scripting etc without a new engine? I think they can, I would love a new endgine but if they can fix the faults without it then it won't be game breaking for me.

 

[pj_puttz]

Well can PES improve stuff like the catch up bug, cursor switching, unresposive defenders, animation lock ups, scripting etc without a new engine? I think they can, I would love a new endgine but if they can fix the faults without it then it won't be game breaking for me.

I suppose they might be able to but they haven't bothered to fix any of those things so far so what makes you think they will this time around? If they were easy to fix they would surely have done so by now.

I'm guessing things like the catch up bug, unresponsive defenders, lock up and scripting are all seen as necessary by Konami because they cant programme an AI smart enough to challenge human players on a level playing field.

The current incarnation of the game desperately needs to be scrapped and built from the ground up but it would appear that Konami are refusing to do this until next generation tech becomes available.

If that's true they might as well not bother releasing PES 2013 as far as I'm concerned because I am certain that it will be nothing more than a slightly tweaked update of PES 2012 and therefore I will not be spending £40 on it.

 

[curdstar]

I look around various forums for PES and what remains consistent is folks talking about how they still play the likes of PES5, PES6 on PS2; speak very positively of PES2009,2011 and 2012 on Wii, and you even have some who still play the pretty slim version of PES6 on 360 too. Taking that into consideration, along with the fact that on a pure technical level these games are using weaker technology than that found in current - gen PES2012, I find it mad to rule out a future game based on it's engine alone and that ultimately the majority of people don't really know what an engine is and certainly don't know what could be achieved with PES' current engine. Nobody other than the developers themselves know what is possible with the tools they are using at the moment, though that is not to say some uber-jump is possible.

That is not me saying that they are going to blow us all away with some gigantic technical leap, but while the fact remains that we do not know the actual limitations of the tech. and what could be brought in to compliment it regards gameplay fine-tuning, new mechanics, subtle visual/performance enhancements, features etc. then I am looking ahead with an open mind like I always do. Whether it is PES, FIFA, NBA2K12, Yakuza, Red Dead Redemption, Vanquish, Freedom Fighters (PS2) or Resi4 HD (all games I have been playing recently) the engines that drive these games don't dictate exclusively why I choose to play them.

I am disappointed that a re-focus of resources may come to pass for PES this year but what I won't do is write it off completely or proclaim that PES2013 will be PES2012 ver 2.0. PES2012 was based on the same tech used for PES2011 and leaving aside what you may think about the games themselves, it cannot be denied that there were technical improvements. I just want them to make the best PES they can up until it's release, regardless of the bloody engine they are using this year.

If they can produce a game that hits the right beats for dedicated players and some of those who need some convincing (those who are not simply stating that they need a new engine or no sale, which they are entitled to do I might add) then that is all that matters. I will of course be sure to think ''if only this was using even better tech'' if the game ends up being absolutely superb but I won't cease playing on account of that if the game proves to be more than the sum of it's parts and quite simply delivers the most pure football videogame experience available.

 

[h3li0]

This will be another year full of hype until the game is out. They will speak of great improvements, great freedom, again and again, and then we will see poor keepers another year, because its proven, that with this fkin engine, they are not able to solve the keeper problem.


If they focus on graphics, sound and presentation, we might have a more appealing game, a more eye candy. But if i think right, what’s about the sound, and commentary of the game, its been crap since i remember in this gen, why should it change now? It might improve, if they focus on that, but if they focus on gameplay then it will be a crappy looking game, with sound of the italia 90 times, and poor framerate in some stadiums in certain conditions, and with a lightning system that has a disgusting color palette, specially in night games...

Yesterday i boot the game once again just to see everyone play with teams full od speed merchant card players, that the only thing they do is ping-pong pass and lobbed trough balls to the fkin merchant guys and run run run, and pass around the miserable keepers, just to put it in the goal, 3 games like this and i shut it down.

PES as it is now its like a Swiss cheese, full of holes, and in order to correct in one side, you have to leave other side open, like its been proven with the shooting and keepers this year. If they fix the gameplay, AI, and animations, the framerate will suffer, the graphics will suffer, the presentation will suffer, and if they do otherwise the gameplay will suffer, so there’s no turn around.

They might as well think in, giving a job to snake from the MGS saga so that he could show PES team how to camouflage, because the way they camouflage the game problems is just for laugh

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

So Konami have effectively given up on this generation of consoles as far as football games are concerned then? Great. In a few short months they have utterly destroyed the reputation of what used to be the king of football games.

They are not giving up they are MAXIMIZING profits and laughing all the way to the bank. Spend nothing make 10's of millions of pounds, Great for them shit for their consumers.

 

[pj_puttz]

Nice post Curds.

I agree that we dont know how far the current tech can be pushed but the problem as I see it is that neither do Konami.

They dont seem to have any solid direction for PES on the current tech and because of that they have produced wildly varying versions of the game over the last few years.

If it were truly evolving as a series we would be close to perfection with PES 2012 but it has actually gone backwards because they just dont seem to know how to get that PES magic back.

Sure they MIGHT produce a game that hits all the right notes this time around but what have you seen from them lately to convince you they will? Surely the most likely outcome is a tweaked version of PES 2012, no doubt with some of the decent features inexplicably removed and some crappy new stuff that doesnt work properly thrown in?

I think we all want the best PES they can produce but the sad fact is that without a radical overhaul of just about every aspect of the game it remains highly unlikely they will give us a game we can be proud of again. Maybe they've already given us the best they can do and, for whatever reason, their best simply isn't good enough?

Confidence in Konami is at an all time low on this thread and for good reason.

 

[Jamezinho]

My predictions on what Konami can do with current engine are based on results, i.e. the past six years.

My conclusion? Not a lot.

Konami are struggling with the current engine. I'd say that's undeniable. PES became worse last year as they tried to shoe-horn incredible AI into archaic game architecture. The game has fallen off graphically in the last two years to make way for the above. Konami STILL cannot program convincing keeper logic. Konami STILL cannot produce consistent ball physics.

So, no, I think PES2013 will be more of the same. Fine if you enjoy PES2012 but not good enough for us sceptics. The very first video will tell me all I need to know.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

My predictions on what Konami can do with current engine are based on results, i.e. the past six years.

My conclusion? Not a lot.

Konami are struggling with the current engine. I'd say that's undeniable. PES became worse last year as they tried to shoe-horn incredible AI into archaic game architecture. The game has fallen off graphically in the last two years to make way for the above. Konami STILL cannot program convincing keeper logic. Konami STILL cannot produce consistent ball physics.

So, no, I think PES2013 will be more of the same. Fine if you enjoy PES2012 but not good enough for us sceptics. The very first video will tell me all I need to know.

I think it's the case that Konami are getting feedback by the people running fansites who give PES games glorious reviews each year and they love the game so Konami must think fuck yeah we done a great job lets just continue doing what we are doing, They know they are miles behind EA with tech and spending millions on a new engine is not really needed when they are selling millions upon millions of units and at the same time getting really good reviews.

Konami are the new EA... dont really care, put minimal effort in each year to release average games to the masses.

 

[Jamezinho]

I don't think Konami's current predicament is anything to do with feedback at all to be honest. I'm not going to take cheap shots at wenb or any other site or media outlet. The reason PES is in a sorry state is all on Konami.

They should know how to make a good football game having been at the top of the tree for years. They should know that tech moves on and never to stand still. They simply should know better.

Read the fan feedback on sites like wenb, PESfan etc......it's all the same things we've been saying here.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Also i really surprised no one else has picked up on this....

PES is released in October each year, They say PES 2014 will be the one with new engine etc so that means it will be out in October 2013...the new console's wont likely be out by then....possibly and it's a big possibly the new Xbox could be out but certainly not the new Playstation.

That tell's me Konami are just making things up as they go along and PES 2014 will be out on current console's still using the PS2 engine that PES 2008-2013 have used.

 

[P34SEMM]

Well my lad asked me to buy Fifa12 so I can play him and his mates online.

Im enjoying it this year.

I still cant beleive that PES12 was so bad.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I am probably one of the few people on here who's pleased by this news. I've said in the past that I thought Konami should leave this generation as a write off because the damage has largely already been done, and that they should start developing for the next gen consoles now. Sure, they could have implemented a scalable engine that could be used on the next consoles but hopefully this news now means that whatever they produce will be right at the forefront of the next gen tech, and that whatever they produce has for once been given the same development time that other companies need to make a game. It is going to take more time than 12 months to create essentially a whole new game from scratch, and now they have the chance to do so.

I think PES has suffered more than most sports titles because of the tight yearly deadlines, so I hope that Konami will use the opportunity to start afresh with the series and do what FIFA did on current gen in terms of tech and modernising the gameplay. That extra year might be the time they need to make a comeback and ‘wow’ the public again. Fresh game, fresh generation of consoles. I would even go so far as to suggest a rebrand of the series, with a tweaked, more relevant name and the western versions aimed more towards the Western market. I doubt that will happen but this news is at least a start in the right direction.

Overall though I don't think Konami can win with people in this situation. Game developers only have a certain amount of people to work on their products and at some point Konami had to make a decision to go all out for a next gen game or to keep trying to incrementally improving the game every twelve months or so. Konami won't have the manpower to try and push this generation's limits and simultaneously pour all their efforts into creating something that's hopefully new, fresh, and special on the next consoles, so people will just have to accept that. I don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory being banded about by Flaw3dGenius that they're looking to rip us off with substandard versions for the next couple of years. I think that their policy used on the PS2 versions will prove to be the same on PS3/360. Somewhere down the line Konami made the decision to focus on the newer versions of the game, and as such have released yearly updates towards the end of the console's life precisely because they needed to focus their manpower on the newer titles on more modern hardware.

I am personally prepared to wait a couple of years for that to happen. If next year's title can correct some of the issues with the current game, maybe improve the graphics, and tighten things up so it's more like a cross between demo one and PES2011 then I'll be content with that until the following year. I'd much rather Konami have a couple of years to really make a go of things than rush out a new engine for this October, whether that engine will be scalable or not.

And besides, I'm sure EA are busy at work now developing a new engine for next gen FIFA, so you'll see them only produce marginal updates in the next couple of editions of FIFA too. It's just the way of things towards the end of a console's shelf life. Manpower and funds need to be allocated towards the future at some point, and I'm glad Konami are looking to create, hopfully, a fresh start for the future.

To sum up that long winded post, you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs....

 

[pj_puttz]

I am probably one of the few people on here who's pleased by this news. I've said in the past that I thought Konami should leave this generation as a write off because the damage has largely already been done, and that they should start developing for the next gen consoles now. Sure, they could have implemented a scalable engine that could be used on the next consoles but hopefully this news now means that whatever they produce will be right at the forefront of the next gen tech, and that whatever they produce has for once been given the same development time that other companies need to make a game. It is going to take more time than 12 months to create essentially a whole new game from scratch, and now they have the chance to do so.

I think PES has suffered more than most sports titles because of the tight yearly deadlines, so I hope that Konami will use the opportunity to start afresh with the series and do what FIFA did on current gen in terms of tech and modernising the gameplay. That extra year might be the time they need to make a comeback and ‘wow’ the public again. Fresh game, fresh generation of consoles. I would even go so far as to suggest a rebrand of the series, with a tweaked, more relevant name and the western versions aimed more towards the Western market. I doubt that will happen but this news is at least a start in the right direction.

Overall though I don't think Konami can win with people in this situation. Game developers only have a certain amount of people to work on their products and at some point Konami had to make a decision to go all out for a next gen game or to keep trying to incrementally improving the game every twelve months or so. Konami won't have the manpower to try and push this generation's limits and simultaneously pour all their efforts into creating something that's hopefully new, fresh, and special on the next consoles, so people will just have to accept that. I don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory being banded about by Flaw3dGenius that they're looking to rip us off with substandard versions for the next couple of years. It will prove to be the same as the PS2 version. Somewhere down the line Konami made the decision to focus on the newer versions of the game, and as such have released yearly updates towards the end of the console's life precisely because they needed to focus their manpower on the newer titles on more modern hardware.

I am personally prepared to wait a couple of years for that to happen. If next year's title can correct some of the issues with the current game, maybe improve the graphics, and tighten things up so it's more like a cross between demo one and PES2011 then I'll be content with that until the following year. I'd much rather Konami have a couple of years to really make a go of things than rush out a new engine for this October, whether that engine will be scalable or not.

And besides, I'm sure EA are busy at work now developing a new engine for next gen FIFA, so you'll see them only produce marginal updates in the next couple of editions of FIFA too. It's just the way of things towards the end of a console's shelf life. Manpower and funds need to be allocated towards the future at some point, and I'm glad Konami are looking to hopfully a fresh start in the future.

I dont understand that attitude at all LT.

You're basically saying we should just accept that Konami have pretty much given up on PES on the current tech and look forward to the next generation of PES games in the hope they turn out to be amazing?

Are you seriously going to pay £40 for a game which you yourself say will merely be tweaked version of PES 2012? If that's not deliberately ripping off customers what is?

To write off PES on current tech, say you're HAPPY about it THEN state you'll also be happy to pay £40 for a half arsed update of PES 2012 at the same time makes no sense to me at all.

Working on next generation tech is no guarantee that Konami will finally pull their head out of their ass and create a top class football game.

Just look at PES 2008.

 

[Nobleknight]

Nothing new to me
When I read that PES2013 will be a new engine ,I laughed because its too late to develop an engine for an ending generation.

Keeping the new engine for next gen consoles is the first intelligent move to make a real football game (PS4/Xbox720) and leave the current generation (disaster )behind them.

After PES2012 , I decided to leave PES as its current philosophy is not working for me.With EA being a generation ahead of PES , I can't see any change in the upcoming generation but who knows ?!
May be Konami can pull their shit together and make a real simulation fun game with modern philosophy.

That's my opinion ,so plz respect it

 

[pj_puttz]

There are so many PES players that are always looking for the next big thing, always looking to the horizon hoping they see a speck of hope in the shape of a decent PES game.

Konami must love this attitude. They play on it by promising the world and delivering very little and in these guys eyes that's OK and there's no need to worry because the NEXT game is going to be amazing isn't it? Just wait and see!

Now it's got so bad they're not merely looking ahead to next year's version, they're looking ahead to the next generation of tech in the hope of finding salvation for PES!

I mean FFS dont we deserve a decent football game NOW? I played football games I LOVED on a fuckin Commodore 16 so is it really too much to ask for a decent football game on a PS3? Are they really trying to tell us the current tech isn't good enough?

It's total bollocks! EA and Konami have cornered the multi-million pound market of the football fan and they know we have no choice but to accept the crap they feed us year after year. They badly need some serious competition but they wont get it because between them they have the all important licences nailed down.

That coupled with the "We're bound to get a good game by 2016! Let's keep buying the shit versions until then though because we have no choice!" attitude is sinking the football game as we used to know it.

I'm voting with my cash and saying "enough is enough" this year and I would urge anyone who is unhappy with the current state of affairs to do the same.

 

[Jamezinho]

My only worry is by delaying the new engine how much of a market share will PES have by the time the new consoles launch? FIFA is already so dominant and winning more PES fans every year. EA will not stand still either. I'm sure they have grand plans for the next generation. A new engine in two years time is no guarantee that all will be well with PES once again.

It's a risky strategy. Personally I'd rather implement a 'lite' version of the engine now to see how it's received, then build on it next gen.

 

[henrys hand]

Also i really surprised no one else has picked up on this....

PES is released in October each year, They say PES 2014 will be the one with new engine etc so that means it will be out in October 2013...the new console's wont likely be out by then....possibly and it's a big possibly the new Xbox could be out but certainly not the new Playstation.

That tell's me Konami are just making things up as they go along and PES 2014 will be out on current console's still using the PS2 engine that PES 2008-2013 have used.

I read it differently: I think Konami like other big developers got notice from Microsoft and Sony that October/November 2013 their new consoles will come to market, a year later than Nintendo's. That's probably why Konami decided to postpone their new engine.

As for Sony/Microsoft, it makes sense to bring out the new console in 2013 because a) Nintendo's one comes out end of 2012 and b) their current consoles are completely hacked.

So all signs say PS4/Xbox720 will be out by November 2013 and PES 2014 for these consoles will have a brand new engine.

 

[stephen]

Disappointed! I have only just invested in a ps3 for christ sake!

Unfortunately I cannot accept that we have to wait unitl ps4 or the next xbox for a totally revamped pes if this is true!

I find it kind of difficult, because my emotions are split! On one hand its a disgrace, and I want a good game now, not in 2 years. And on the other, it is probably the right move for the company that as they struggled for some time.

I personally (as a consumer) think this is going to drive more peeps away, as people feel ripped off by what has been said regarding the new engine (if true that is). Remember nothing official yet!

I know it kinda makes sense for Konami to do this. But I guess it just confirms what people have been thinking for the last couple of years - that they failed on this gen. Polishing a turd springs to mind.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I read it differently: I think Konami like other big developers got notice from Microsoft and Sony that October/November 2013 their new consoles will come to market, a year later than Nintendo's. That's probably why Konami decided to postpone their new engine.

As for Sony/Microsoft, it makes sense to bring out the new console in 2013 because a) Nintendo's one comes out end of 2012 and b) their current consoles are completely hacked.

So all signs say PS4/Xbox720 will be out by November 2013 and PES 2014 for these consoles will have a brand new engine.

I really hope that's the case but i just dont see both console's launching beside each other, Sony have already confirmed no new PS will be announced at E3 this year.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I dont understand that attitude at all LT.

You're basically saying we should just accept that Konami have pretty much given up on PES on the current tech and look forward to the next generation of PES games in the hope they turn out to be amazing?

Are you seriously going to pay £40 for a game which you yourself say will merely be tweaked version of PES 2012? If that's not deliberately ripping off customers what is?

To write off PES on current tech, say you're HAPPY about it THEN state you'll also be happy to pay £40 for a half arsed update of PES 2012 at the same time makes no sense to me at all.

Working on next generation tech is no guarantee that Konami will finally pull their head out of their ass and create a top class football game.

Just look at PES 2008.

Yeah but PES2008 wasn't developed with new tech. It was a terribly converted PS2 engine, so you can't really compare it with the situation in the future.

Yes I am happy for Konami to resign themselves to concentrating on next gen PES if it means the game will be modern, up to date, and rekindle the magic of old but in a shiny new form. Most top games like Batman, Battlefield, Unchartered etc take 2-3 years of development time so if Konami are prepared to take two years to produce something that is up to these standards then so be it. I'd rather that that have some kind of beta version of a rushed new engine on PS3 for PES2013 then a less polished title on PS4 because a year of that dev time was taken up trying to shoehorn the engine onto a dying format.

As for releasing a tweaked version of PES2012 this year, well, if the game looks better and plays better than PES2012 then sure I'd buy it, there would still be a good game there. I wouldn't spend £40 though, which is why it might do Konami well if they released the current generation of games at a lower price point like they do for the PS2 and Wii versions. They weigh in at under £20 new, so an improved PES2013 with a price point of £25-30, would tide me over nicely while in the knowledge that they were going to rekindle the series with some serious new tech.

PES on current formats has been largely a disaster for the series. I'd be happy to wait and see them start afresh with new, cutting edge technology and some new ideas.

 

[pj_puttz]

Yeah but PES2008 wasn't developed with new tech. It was a terribly converted PS2 engine, so you can't really compare it with the situation in the future.

Yes I am happy for Konami to resign themselves to concentrating on next gen PES if it means the game will be modern, up to date, and rekindle the magic of old but in a shiny new form. Most top games like Batman, Battlefield, Unchartered etc take 2-3 years of development time so if Konami are prepared to take two years to produce something that is up to these standards then so be it. I'd rather that that have some kind of beta version of a rushed new engine on PS3 for PES2013 then a less polished title on PS4 because a year of that dev time was taken up trying to shoehorn the engine onto a dying format.

As for releasing a tweaked version of PES2012 this year, well, if the game looks better and plays better than PES2012 then sure I'd buy it, there would still be a good game there. I wouldn't spend £40 though, which is why it might do Konami well if they released the current generation of games at a lower price point like they do for the PS2 and Wii versions. They weigh in at under £20 new, so an improved PES2013 with a price point of £25-30, would tide me over nicely while in the knowledge that they were going to rekindle the series with some serious new tech.

PES on current formats has been largely a disaster for the series. I'd be happy to wait and see them start afresh with new, cutting edge technology and some new ideas.

The point is they DID promise us an amazing next gen Pro Evo experience and they delivered the disaster that was PES 2008. Sound familiar? Besides, dont you think that planning a new engine for future tech is the least they should do? Why is that something to be happy about now? They should have done it YEARS ago for THIS generation of tech but they didnt bother their arse! Instead we got downright insulted by PES 2008 followed by a very gradual improvement year after year before they ripped up the rule book (again) and gave us the bafflingly bad PES 2012.

They have basically skipped a hardware generation as far as development is concerned yet continue to charge customers full price for their product. It's a disgrace!

There is absolutely no indication whatsover in my eyes that Konami will improve PES 2012 this year, especially when you consider they will probably be putting even less effort and resources into it than before. You're hoping they'll somehow tweak the game in the right way and everything will fall into place but where do you get that hope from considering their recent efforts?

I also cant see them releasing PES 2013 for anything less than £40 simply because there are far too many mugs out there willing to pay that for it no matter what.

I just dont see what there is to be happy about here. Sure we MIGHT get a decent PES game in a few years time but what good is that doing us now?

Dont forget the current game was only released just over 3 months ago yet both Konami and most of the people on this thread have already written it off and are looking 2 or 3 years into the future hoping for a decent PES game!

Dont you find that completely absurd? Doesn't the fact that Konami have destroyed PES on this generation of tech make you a wee bit pissed off at them?

I'll save my praise for Konami for when they're earned it by bringing out the kind of PES game we deserve. Right now they've earned only my contempt for the way they have treated their loyal fanbase on this generation of tech.

 

[Northzzz]

I am probably one of the few people on here who's pleased by this news. I've said in the past that I thought Konami should leave this generation as a write off because the damage has largely already been done, and that they should start developing for the next gen consoles now. Sure, they could have implemented a scalable engine that could be used on the next consoles but hopefully this news now means that whatever they produce will be right at the forefront of the next gen tech, and that whatever they produce has for once been given the same development time that other companies need to make a game. It is going to take more time than 12 months to create essentially a whole new game from scratch, and now they have the chance to do so.

I think PES has suffered more than most sports titles because of the tight yearly deadlines, so I hope that Konami will use the opportunity to start afresh with the series and do what FIFA did on current gen in terms of tech and modernising the gameplay. That extra year might be the time they need to make a comeback and ‘wow’ the public again. Fresh game, fresh generation of consoles. I would even go so far as to suggest a rebrand of the series, with a tweaked, more relevant name and the western versions aimed more towards the Western market. I doubt that will happen but this news is at least a start in the right direction.

Overall though I don't think Konami can win with people in this situation. Game developers only have a certain amount of people to work on their products and at some point Konami had to make a decision to go all out for a next gen game or to keep trying to incrementally improving the game every twelve months or so. Konami won't have the manpower to try and push this generation's limits and simultaneously pour all their efforts into creating something that's hopefully new, fresh, and special on the next consoles, so people will just have to accept that. I don't subscribe to this conspiracy theory being banded about by Flaw3dGenius that they're looking to rip us off with substandard versions for the next couple of years. I think that their policy used on the PS2 versions will prove to be the same on PS3/360. Somewhere down the line Konami made the decision to focus on the newer versions of the game, and as such have released yearly updates towards the end of the console's life precisely because they needed to focus their manpower on the newer titles on more modern hardware.

I am personally prepared to wait a couple of years for that to happen. If next year's title can correct some of the issues with the current game, maybe improve the graphics, and tighten things up so it's more like a cross between demo one and PES2011 then I'll be content with that until the following year. I'd much rather Konami have a couple of years to really make a go of things than rush out a new engine for this October, whether that engine will be scalable or not.

And besides, I'm sure EA are busy at work now developing a new engine for next gen FIFA, so you'll see them only produce marginal updates in the next couple of editions of FIFA too. It's just the way of things towards the end of a console's shelf life. Manpower and funds need to be allocated towards the future at some point, and I'm glad Konami are looking to create, hopfully, a fresh start for the future.

To sum up that long winded post, you can't make an omlette without breaking some eggs....

I concur.

Honestly people have to stop being so idealistic. Why the fuck would they put out a new engine a year OR SO (edit: thanks Lons_PL for showing me the error of my ways) before a new brand of systems come out (ergo a new brand of systems that they will want to use develop an engine especially for). I'm really at a loss as to why anybody would expect that. It's like the epitome of the 'hope' that seems to encapsulate some ardent PES fans. In reality it makes little to no sense.

P.S. I'd be fairly certain that now, or at least in the near future, they will have the development kits for the next generation of consoles. Obviously a lot of man power will be going in to working with that. I fully expect PES 2013 to be the least changed of the series in recent history.

I have to ask though. Given that it's pretty much accepted that PES fell so far behind because they were not ready for the next gen (i.e the abomination that was PES 2008), why are you hoping/thinking that they are looking to the present rather than to the future? Surely the progression and thinking about the future is logically something you'd desire given previous experience of them doing the exact opposite.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Yeah but PES2008 wasn't developed with new tech. It was a terribly converted PS2 engine, so you can't really compare it with the situation in the future.

Dont you think if they could make a good game with this engine on current consoles they would have already? I mean they know their engine outside it's not as if they had to get used to it, Now they have done 5 games this gen with this engine and all 5 games have failed to be a very good games infact 3 were downright awful and 2 have been slightly above average so going by that it's hard to see how they can make a AAA game with the engine they are sticking with.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I guess the point is that I doubt I'll buy PES2013 because it will be a slight upgrade, so yeah I agree with you on that front. There is always hope that it'll be marginally better than the last game but ultimately I do think they'll charge £40 so I probably won't be buying it. I'm happy though because the next gen consoles really aren't too far away and I'm happy to not play any more PES until the new consoles come out.

Take, I don't know, say, Bioshock as an example. It's one of my favourite game franchises. I was happy to wait three or so years for Bioshock 2 to come out, and it'll have been the same time period again by the time Bioshock Infinite is released. But I don't really care because I'd rather they didn't rush the game. Its the same for almost all franchises, Modern Warfare and sports titles aside. And you know what? Most of the yearly updated titles have grown old very quickly.

If people are fans of a game that takes two years to make between each title then I don't get the huge panic when people see that we might not have a true PES sequel until a couple of years' time. It's really no different to any other game. And if Konami do try and fob us off with full price games that are barely updated sequels until a true next gen game comes out then just don't buy them.

Like I keep saying, I'd rather have no game to play for a year or so then have a true next gen experience when the new consoles come out than have constant games being released that aren't quite up to scratch.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I concur.

Honestly people have to stop being so idealistic. Why the fuck would they put out a new engine a year before a new brand of systems come out (ergo a new brand of systems that they will want to use develop an engine especially for). I'm really at a loss as to why anybody would expect that. It's like the epitome of the 'hope' that seems to encapsulate some ardent PES fans. In reality it makes little to no sense.

P.S. I'd be fairly certain that now, or at least in the near future, they will have the development kits for the next generation of consoles. Obviously a lot of man power will be going in to working with that. I fully expect PES 2013 to be the least changed of the series in recent history.

I have to ask though. Given that it's pretty much accepted that PES fell so far behind because they were not ready for the next gen (i.e the abomination that was PES 2008), why are you hoping/thinking that they are looking to the present rather than to the future? Surely the progression and thinking about the future is logically something you'd desire given previous experience of them doing the exact opposite.

Exactly, it's not a case of me having false hope of a new, great PES in the future, but it's more that the law of averages that suggests a two year development cycle on new hardware with new tech and a new engine has a better chance of being good than it would if they rushed the engine out, squeezed in onto the PS3 etc, then only spent one year taking advantage of the extra hardware available after that.

But to add a bit of false hope just for a laugh, then who knows, maybe the engine etc they have planned is too advanced for current consoles and only seems to run on better hardware? Just a thought.

 

[Lons]

I concur.

Honestly people have to stop being so idealistic. Why the fuck would they put out a new engine a year before a new brand of systems come out (ergo a new brand of systems that they will want to use develop an engine especially for). I'm really at a loss as to why anybody would expect that. It's like the epitome of the 'hope' that seems to encapsulate some ardent PES fans. In reality it makes little to no sense.

P.S. I'd be fairly certain that now, or at least in the near future, they will have the development kits for the next generation of consoles. Obviously a lot of man power will be going in to working with that. I fully expect PES 2013 to be the least changed of the series in recent history.

I have to ask though. Given that it's pretty much accepted that PES fell so far behind because they were not ready for the next gen (i.e the abomination that was PES 2008), why are you hoping/thinking that they are looking to the present rather than to the future? Surely the progression and thinking about the future is logically something you'd desire given previous experience of them doing the exact opposite.

Sorry but how do you know when new systems will come? Please guys stop writting bullshit about new consoles becasue noboody knows when new systems will be release.

 

[Northzzz]

Dont you think if they could make a good game with this engine on current consoles they would have already? I mean they know their engine outside it's not as if they had to get used to it, Now they have done 5 games this gen with this engine and all 5 games have failed to be a very good games infact 3 were downright awful and 2 have been slightly above average so going by that it's hard to see how they can make a AAA game with the engine they are sticking with.

When was PES ever an AAA series?

 

[Northzzz]

Sorry but how do you know when new systems will come? Please guys stop writting bullshit about new consoles becasue noboody knows when new systems will be release.

Why don't we all stop writing things on here that aren't objectively true and that we can provide empirical evidence for.

end of 2013/2014 is kind of guesstimated. I'd eat my hat if they don't in truth.