The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
Right, I know I come across as a negative bastard but I have played this game for hours and hours and have finally come to my conclusion:

It's the goalkeepers!

Think about it, the goalkeepers have had the same flaws as they did in the first ps2 games (magnetic hands, poor positioning etc). What was attempted in the demo was positional defending, realistic ball physics and freedom, so it was your job to protect the keepers knowing that they weren't gonna bail you out as often. I think (and I know I'm in the minority) that this made the demo far more playable and realistic than the full release. People have moaned about the keepers post demo, and the only way that this could be rectified is to make the ball lighter, slower and easier for the limited goalkeepers to deal with. So the realistic positional defending has been sacked off to go back to the hassle and steal defending of football games of the entire past.

This has resulted in a floaty ball (which bad players can even outrun!), primary school football player intelligence (play BAL - it's supercancel city!) and much easier tackling and basically defender superiority (to disguise and restrict the involvement of the limited custodians).

If the goalkeepers where better, the freedom and realistic ball physics could have been retained and we would literally have the best football game ever.

I was happy to let a few bad goals in knowing that my attackers were capable of scoring too.

I have been playing offline masterleague with original ml players, and it is actually much harder on professional with manual passing than it is on superstar with 4 bars. The manual passing just doesn't work anymore on full release due to the 'Active AI' completely misreading your intentions. The chipped throughball option just never cuts it against the cpu, first time throughballs are often massively underhit, shooting is often less powerful than passing (again due to goalies) and the r3 click makes the selected player *walk* forward! They *ran* on the demo! So 0 bar passing just doesnt work anymore.

I know that my players are bottom of the barrel, but theyre still footballers! They should run, shoot with power and take things first time, even if the quality isnt there the attempt should be made by the player! Even I'm better in real life than Gutierrez/Ordaz etc!

I've now taken to the game a bit more, playing on 4 bars passing and I am enjoying it but it isn't the game I played on the demo.

The demo's strengths were manual passing, positional defending and freedom - the full game is enjoyable as a fully assisted and scripted game, but the difference for me is night and day.

As the mass market *want* (i presume) a casual and assisted game, i fear that the game I so want will never be commercially released!

Let fifa take care of those consumers, PES should be pandering to the market that FIFA will never win and the market that gave it such a following to begin with.

They were on to something with the demo(s), I hope that they aren't just going to try and be a poor man's fifa. The thinking man's PES was that demo, Konami need to be strong, focused and believe that they can achieve what was glimpsed at in the demo. Copying FIFA will spell the end for this franchise I fear!

Hope that made sense!

Start the goalies again from scratch, only have manual passing and keep the ball physics and freedom from the demo and it's there!

Oh yeah, and sort the crossing out (make it manual), headers (defenders should have advantage if its contested - defenders only have to get *something* on it, attackers need to get something more on it!), and the attackers if in front of the defender should be uncatchable over 10 yards (or more depending on the player).

Hope it made sense!
 
priskinsprick, if you delete the patch and edit the keepers you'll be facing using Curdstars tweaks then you should eradicate most of your issues with the game.

Can't say I agree about shooting being weak though, once you grasp how much power in the right context they're struck stronger than any other iteration.

Can symthasise with the passing complaint, I can't get on with it at all and think it's a step down from PES 2011. I like that it requires more thought with higher inaccuracy, even up to 2 bars. But the lack of individuality, as well as the inconsistent between power levels really starts to grate after a while.
 
One thing I loved last year was being able to double/triple tap sprint to get a tiny knock on from which you could then strike the ball with power. Now the ball either is always really close to your foot or it gets knocked on a long way - even tried this in free training.

For some reason in free training, the triple tap of sprint knocks the ball on but in a game it rarely does. Is this a run bug related issue or something else?? Because that tiny knock on is the key to hitting a screamer when you've got the ball.
 
dannyfc2 said:
priskinsprick, if you delete the patch and edit the keepers you'll be facing using Curdstars tweaks then you should eradicate most of your issues with the game.

Can't say I agree about shooting being weak though, once you grasp how much power in the right context they're struck stronger than any other iteration.

Can symthasise with the passing complaint, I can't get on with it at all and think it's a step down from PES 2011. I like that it requires more thought with higher inaccuracy, even up to 2 bars. But the lack of individuality, as well as the inconsistent between power levels really starts to grate after a while.
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Hey danny, I wasnt complaining about the goalkeepers in 2012, but trying to understand what has happened to the game post demo.

And because feedback showed the keepers as too weak to deal with the weighty ball, they could only change the shooting and defending as changing the goalkeepers is too much of a mission. The goalkeepers have been the same for ages let's face it.

Therefore people complained about bad keepers and instead of being given improved keepers were given worse shooting/chance creation, less atacking freedom and more overpowered defenders. The keepers inefficiency is then less tested from such a variety of shots.

The game we played in demo with brand new goalkeepers is the version of pes I'm awaiting, but I'm not holding my breath.

I play pes 2012 v1.0, I have played the patched version but thought it was a massive step backwards and more frustrating than enjoyable. I enjoy v1.0, but for different reasons than the demo - without the expectations of what i played in the demos I would have been happier with pes2012 as a fully assisted arcadey-type game.

But the demo gave me real football, and the ball felt like a ball!
I know this from tons of games as America vs Internacional, and the first bash of this matchup on the full release really wasnt up to the demo's standards imo.

But there's hope for the future, as long as the feedback brigade aren't given too much of a voice!
 
I am really struggling with shooting. It just feels off to me. When running with the ball it is nigh on impossible for me to get a decent shot away even if i time it well (well from what i can see). I played about 10 games of my current Master League yesterday and had to turn the game off as the shooting was completely pissing me off. Its really getting on my wick that there seems to be so little 'science' to getting a good shot at goal. The direction of your shot seems random - i lost count of the times i aimed for the far post only for the shot to go to the near post. If i hit a shot with any kind of power it fires into the air at a completely unrealistic trajectory.
Really disappointed with the final product. I thoroughly enjoyed Demo 2. All that was required was some work on the keepers and maybe a slight toning down of shot accuracy (but defintely not the ball dynamics) and ijn my view this would have been a great game. I just can't play this game for too long at the moment because the beachball effect when shooting is driving me up the wall. The lack of decent animations is just absurd but i could live with that if the ball actually felt and moved like a football.
I hope that Konami can gives us something of Demo 2 back in a patch.
 
I've been playing PES 2012 since a few days before release date now (got an early copy) and the simple fact is I'm not enjoying it. I used to be able to pour many enjoyable hours into PES games but I just cant see me sticking with this one for the next 12 months. Here's why:

Actually before I start, I'm playing on Pro with 1 bar pass assistance, 0 game speed, no AI assistance with passing, shooting, tackling etc. in a Master League with the default players. Just been promoted to the Premiership after winning D2 in my first season.

Keepers are worse than ever before. They were always bad but they are ridiculous now. I wont bother with a list of the crap they do, we all know it by now.

The "cheaty" AI is worse than ever before. AI players go into "god mode" a lot more often and their dribbling skills make them literally unstoppable at times no matter what the player's stats are. Even trying to hack them down doesn't work. Free kicks and shots from long range are ridiculously accurate and powerful no matter who hits them and when defending corners you might as well be watching a cut scene because the result has already been determined no matter what buttons you press. Even if you are lucky enough to get your head on it the ball merely floats straight towards another AI attacker 99% of the time.

The new defending looks like it was a great idea but due to the god-like dribbling skills of the AI it really only benefits the AI teams, all of whom have cat-like reflexes and perfect timing. Even when you do manage to skip past them they usually still knock you off your stride slightly which results in the ever present and ultra annoying stumble animation. An animation the AI never seems to suffer from.

The amount of times I have to press "super cancel" is utter nonsense. Why on earth am I playing a football game where I feel like I'm not in full control of my players? Why should I have to simultaneously press two buttons every 10 seconds to stop MY player doing what Konami wants him to do?

Shooting has been ruined. At least in 2011 I could place shots more or less where I wanted them. Now it seems Konami have decided where the shots are going no matter what direction I press.

Passing is too random. Sometimes I'll hold in the power bar and it will still only tap the ball a few feet ahead at a snails pace, other times I'll tap the pass button and the pass will fly off my boot and out of play. Your AI team mates dont make intelligent runs often enough and the super defensive AI is usually camped in their own 18 yard box anyway so threading a pass through to someone becomes a lottery. Again, why am I having to press R3 and a direction just to make these so called "active AI" players make a decent run? It only gives the aggressive AI a few more seconds to close me down or intercept my pass!

Perhaps the most galling thing about all of this is that these problems are not new, they've been there for years now but rather than fix them Konami has actually made them WORSE this year! I cannot get my head around it at all.

Sometimes I get a glimpse of the old PES magic in this version. Sometimes it all works out, the passing does what I tell it to do, my shots go where I tell them to go, the AI plays (more or less) fairly and in line with the stats and everything feels great. The trouble is these fleeting moments are too few and far between for me to really enjoy the game.

Dont tell me mucking around with the game speed or any other settings changes anything because I know from experience it doesn't. You cant change the core game code simply by putting the game speed to -2.

No mere patch can fix this game, they would have to start from scratch and that aint gonna happen so all you guys and gals desperately crossing your fingers and expecting the next patch to make the game great again are dreaming.

I just cant get into FIFA no matter how hard I try so I'm stuck with PES but I really think this will be the first version I DONT play right up until they release the next one.

A sad day for this Pro Evo diehard.
 
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CalcioCalabrese said:
One thing I loved last year was being able to double/triple tap sprint to get a tiny knock on from which you could then strike the ball with power. Now the ball either is always really close to your foot or it gets knocked on a long way - even tried this in free training.

For some reason in free training, the triple tap of sprint knocks the ball on but in a game it rarely does. Is this a run bug related issue or something else?? Because that tiny knock on is the key to hitting a screamer when you've got the ball.
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Yeah I've had exactly the same problem. In every PES I can remember I've used R1 twice to knock the ball ahead, and let's your player open his stride if you need more speed. But in this it seems very random. Sometimes the player will knock it ahead but it will only be a short distance ahead of him and he gets caught up really easily.

I also try using R2 with R1 to knock the ball even further, and again the distance the ball is knocked ahead isn't always consistent. Again, I get caught up by AI players chasing behind me more than ever before, more so even than in PES2011, yet supposedly the 'catch up bug' was supposed to be absent from this game.
 
I think the two button knock on might be related to explosiveness (possibly) but not sure why the double tap of sprint isn't working well. If it worked properly we'd be able to hit more rocket shots!
 
dannyfc2 said:
priskinsprick, if you delete the patch and edit the keepers you'll be facing using Curdstars tweaks then you should eradicate most of your issues with the game.

Can't say I agree about shooting being weak though, once you grasp how much power in the right context they're struck stronger than any other iteration.

Can symthasise with the passing complaint, I can't get on with it at all and think it's a step down from PES 2011. I like that it requires more thought with higher inaccuracy, even up to 2 bars. But the lack of individuality, as well as the inconsistent between power levels really starts to grate after a while.
Click to expand...

Where can I find Curdstars tweaks, I keep hearing about it but can't find it
 
pj_puttz said:
I've been playing PES 2012 since a few days before release date now (got an early copy) and the simple fact is I'm not enjoying it. I used to be able to pour many enjoyable hours into PES games but I just cant see me sticking with this one for the next 12 months. Here's why:

Actually before I start, I'm playing on Pro with 1 bar pass assistance, 0 game speed, no AI assistance with passing, shooting, tackling etc. in a Master League with the default players. Just been promoted to the Premiership after winning D2 in my first season.

Keepers are worse than ever before. They were always bad but they are ridiculous now. I wont bother with a list of the crap they do, we all know it by now.

The "cheaty" AI is worse than ever before. AI players go into "god mode" a lot more often and their dribbling skills make them literally unstoppable at times no matter what the player's stats are. Even trying to hack them down doesn't work. Free kicks and shots from long range are ridiculously accurate and powerful no matter who hits them and when defending corners you might as well be watching a cut scene because the result has already been determined no matter what buttons you press. Even if you are lucky enough to get your head on it the ball merely floats straight towards another AI attacker 99% of the time.

The new defending looks like it was a great idea but due to the god-like dribbling skills of the AI it really only benefits the AI teams, all of whom have cat-like reflexes and perfect timing. Even when you do manage to skip past them they usually still knock you off your stride slightly which results in the ever present and ultra annoying stumble animation. An animation the AI never seems to suffer from.

The amount of times I have to press "super cancel" is utter nonsense. Why on earth am I playing a football game where I feel like I'm not in full control of my players? Why should I have to simultaneously press two buttons every 10 seconds to stop MY player doing what Konami wants him to do?

Shooting has been ruined. At least in 2011 I could place shots more or less where I wanted them. Now it seems Konami have decided where the shots are going no matter what direction I press.

Passing is too random. Sometimes I'll hold in the power bar and it will still only tap the ball a few feet ahead at a snails pace, other times I'll tap the pass button and the pass will fly off my boot and out of play. Your AI team mates dont make intelligent runs often enough and the super defensive AI is usually camped in their own 18 yard box anyway so threading a pass through to someone becomes a lottery. Again, why am I having to press R3 and a direction just to make these so called "active AI" players make a decent run? It only gives the aggressive AI a few more seconds to close me down or intercept my pass!

Perhaps the most galling thing about all of this is that these problems are not new, they've been there for years now but rather than fix them Konami has actually made them WORSE this year! I cannot get my head around it at all.

Sometimes I get a glimpse of the old PES magic in this version. Sometimes it all works out, the passing does what I tell it to do, my shots go where I tell them to go, the AI plays (more or less) fairly and in line with the stats and everything feels great. The trouble is these fleeting moments are too few and far between for me to really enjoy the game.

Dont tell me mucking around with the game speed or any other settings changes anything because I know from experience it doesn't. You cant change the core game code simply by putting the game speed to -2.

No mere patch can fix this game, they would have to start from scratch and that aint gonna happen so all you guys and gals desperately crossing your fingers and expecting the next patch to make the game great again are dreaming.

I just cant get into FIFA no matter how hard I try so I'm stuck with PES but I really think this will be the first version I DONT play right up until they release the next one.

A sad day for this Pro Evo diehard.
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Thats the whole point of -2. it changes all the mechanics of the game, it's slower, more individuallity, ball control is changed. Basically all the good things from PES 2012 come back in -2 but better. Thats the whole point of this PES 2012, to have different styles of gameplay. Arcadey, standard and simulation, just use all the pass settings ans speed settings to find what you want.

Your biggest problem is you choosing, 0 speed and 1 bar passing and assuming it's the best for you without testing all of the speeds and passing bars out to find what you enjoy the most. You assumed every setting is based on simaultion where this is not the case anymore.

Go on, put it on +2 and what how EVERY player no matter his stats can run so quickly with such precision.

I was playing with Braga one game. Elderson on +2 can sprint not just like lighting but can run with Messi like precision all over the pitch! Put it on -2, he can run fast in a straight line, on the ball he can run at a good quick pace in a staright line, but he turns like a bus at certian angles and isn't very nimble because of his stats.

The game speed changes all the mechanics in the game!
 
klashman69 said:
Thats the whole point of -2. it changes all the mechanics of the game, it's slower, more individuallity, ball control is changed. Basically all the good things from PES 2012 come back in -2 but better. Thats the whole point of this PES 2012, to have different styles of gameplay. Arcadey, standard and simulation, just use all the pass settings ans speed settings to find what you want.

Your biggest problem is you choosing, 0 speed and 1 bar passing and assuming it's the best for you without testing all of the speeds and passing bars out to find what you enjoy the most. You assumed every setting is based on simaultion where this is not the case anymore.

Go on, put it on +2 and what how EVERY player no matter his stats can run so quickly with such precision.

I was playing with Braga one game. Elderson on +2 can sprint not just like lighting but can run with Messi like precision all over the pitch! Put it on -2, he can run fast in a straight line, on the ball he can run at a good quick pace in a staright line, but he turns like a bus at certian angles and isn't very nimble because of his stats.

The game speed changes all the mechanics in the game!
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It's like playing on the moon! Lifes too short to play PES on -2!

All we want is the demo gameplay back! Too much too ask?

YES
 
Aaargh!!! This game is making me want to tear my hair out.

After playing a two hour session on PES2012 this afternoon I thought I'd turned a corner and was really starting to like the game. I notched the speed down to -1, the difficulty to top player and the match length to 15 minutes, version 1.00. All was well. I had a couple of great games as Roma, both full of incident and character, with talismanic performances from the star players. However the scripting of the AI was present throughout and it's something I'm having difficulty overlooking.

Scripting, by Seabass's own admission has always been a part of PES, but I've never noticed or been affected by it as much as PES2012. The amount of Beckham-esque free-kicks I've conceded, mostly scored by average players is a joke, as is the number of cheap headers from crosses, normally with the scorer unmarked. Then there are the players turning into superman and dribbling through my team.

I have a deep sense of foreboding when playing PES2012, that no matter how many I score or how well I defend I will always concede these predetermined goals. I'm trying so hard to love this game but it keeps trying its best to make me want to snap the disc. It's borderline (and literally) game-breaking for me.

Fifa is on order, so I'm going to let both games scrap it out for my attention. Realistically I could keep both and switch between the two as and when each game pisses me off.

On another note, I was catching up on the two most recent podcasts and they are of the opinion that version v1.01 is here to stay.
 
Jamezinho said:
Aaargh!!! This game is making me want to tear my hair out.

After playing a two hour session on PES2012 this afternoon I thought I'd turned a corner and was really starting to like the game. I notched the speed down to -1, the difficulty to top player and the match length to 15 minutes, version 1.00. All was well. I had a couple of great games as Roma, both full of incident and character, with talismanic performances from the star players. However the scripting of the AI was present throughout and it's something I'm having difficulty overlooking.

Scripting, by Seabass's own admission has always been a part of PES, but I've never noticed or been affected by it as much as PES2012. The amount of Beckham-esque free-kicks I've conceded, mostly scored by average players is a joke, as is the number of cheap headers from crosses, normally with the scorer unmarked. Then there are the players turning into superman and dribbling through my team.

I have a deep sense of foreboding when playing PES2012, that no matter how many I score or how well I defend I will always concede these predetermined goals. I'm trying so hard to love this game but it keeps trying its best to make me want to snap the disc. It's borderline (and literally) game-breaking for me.

Fifa is on order, so I'm going to let both games scrap it out for my attention. Realistically I could keep both and switch between the two as and when each game pisses me off.

On another note, I was catching up on the two most recent podcasts and they are of the opinion that version v1.01 is here to stay.
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Yes, on the 1.00 version and on -1 there is definatley this cheating going on. Like you say, from corners they always score from some sort of cheap, lucky flick on, it gets worse, you see center backs scoring volleys against you! It's madness. It's not imposible to win, but teams with momenutum play like gods on this speed at times.

You can sort out the free kicks your letting in by simply manually moving the keeper more centrally. Free kicks are too accruate from the CPU, thing is i forgot this becasuse i'm so used to moving my keeper before the free kick has been taken i hardly, ever conciede from free kicks, Also i've seen countless, at least 50 goals i'd say prevented by doing this.
 
Scripting is what makes the stats work though Jamez, but I certainly will admit, Top Player seems very blatant in alot of areas this year. I've genuinely never felt it like this before. I much prefer Professional level with a lesser team. Playing in the CL with Bolton yesterday on Pro was a real challenge. I never got out of the group on two seperate occasions, but at least it didnt feel like God-mode in any of the games I'd lost. Very unbalanced on Top Player for me this year.
 
klashman69 said:
Yes, on the 1.00 version and on -1 there is definatley this cheating going on. Like you say, from corners they always score from some sort of cheap, lucky flick on, it gets worse, you see center backs scoring volleys against you! It's madness. It's not imposible to win, but teams with momenutum play like gods on this speed at times.

You can sort out the free kicks your letting in by simply manually moving the keeper more centrally. Free kicks are too accruate from the CPU, thing is i forgot this becasuse i'm so used to moving my keeper before the free kick has been taken i hardly, ever conciede from free kicks, Also i've seen countless, at least 50 goals i'd say prevented by doing this.
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Sorry Klash, I don't buy all this stuff about the -2 speed setting alleviating many of the game's ills. Anyway, that speed is just far too slow to me. It doesn't look or feel realistic at all.

On your second point - again that's just more fixes that I shouldn't have to do.

Jimmy G-Force said:
Scripting is what makes the stats work though Jamez, but I certainly will admit, Top Player seems very blatant in alot of areas this year. I've genuinely never felt it like this before. I much prefer Professional level with a lesser team. Playing in the CL with Bolton yesterday on Pro was a real challenge. I never got out of the group on two seperate occasions, but at least it didnt feel like God-mode in any of the games I'd lost. Very unbalanced on Top Player for me this year.
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As I said Jimmy, I'm well aware of the scripted nature of PES throughout it's history. It's what the game was built on and can be attributed to some of the 'PES magic'. It's a necessary evil if you will.

What I'm talking about is more than that though. Of course, some goals in football are unstoppable moments of sheer genius, but in PES2012 more often than not it's blatant, cheap scripting.

Poor effort from Konami this year.
 
I'm not sold on this whole scripting debate.

Player's play above their stats on Top Player, thats a given, but using the Championship OF I'm seeing far too many miss-placed passes, scuffed shots, poor touches, errors from the AI to persuade me they're engineered to win.

I'll admit quite often they score suspiciously straight after I do. Their headers are too effective, and poor players do take on too many people, but overall I think the opposition AI is the best we've had.


Shooting really is bizarre though. I've grasped the power and can unleash some venom, but direction is truly broken. I deliberately hold down the left analog longer then before now, but even then, I've had shots fly off into the opposite corner. That's never happened before on previous games and I can honestly not understand what is going on. It's not a problem of just poor accuracy or miss-hits, I'm finding more of my shots hit the target than PES 2011 for instance. But the game will sometimes completely override your input, based on no context what so ever.

On a side-note I'm top of D2 on Top Player so far so something must have clicked. Compare that with my last effort where I went on a 9 game winless streak and was bottom by Christmas! Ramping up pressure to 'tight' helps loads defensively, and getting in a striker with high body balance does wonders. Really enjoying the physicality of this years game. Most balanced implementation of speed and strength in any PES game IMO.
 
I played two games today so naturally i have complaints to make about the game.

My first match wasn't bad actually, it ended 2-2 (Panathinaikos v Bordeaux). I felt a bit aggrieved because both of their goals came because the game wouldn't switch to the defender i wanted it to, the defender who i naturally would have preferred to clear the ball with. They scored from two crosses so i'm sure you know what i mean. Switching still feels clumsy and cpu attacks come very sudden (i.e crosses) so when you need the game to let you switch to the better placed defender in a crowded box and it doesn't then it can be a little irritating. The right stick doesn't have enough accuracy to use in that situation either if defenders are placed too close together.

My second match was horrible. Portugal v Colombia. I read Jamezinho's posts about scripting recently and i certainly felt the wrath of it in that match. I was cruising 4-1 at HT and Colombia scored with their only shot. Cue them bringing it back to 5-4 in the second half and eventually it ending 6-5 to them. I'm absolutely certain that the game is scripted to keep the score close now. I've had too many games finish 5-4, 4-3 and now 6-5 to to think otherwise (as well as a large number of games ending in a draw). Certainly more games finish that way than they do say 2-0, 3-0 or 4-1. If anybody is finding different results then i'd absolutely love to hear your average game scores when playing this game (exhibition mode). Also Ronaldo's quite ridiculous too. I'm sure even Fifa's best players aren't quite as ridiculous at scoring long range goals as they are in PES. His first goal was a 35 yarder. Second was just a tap in and the third was a volley in the box after running one way, then somehow positioning his body to hit the ball without falling over. He got subbed on 50 minutes because he was tired. I probably would have won with him but i'm not complaining about that. I guess at 4-1 up i wasn't expecting a surge from Columbia as per what happened.

Another complaint i have is that I'm sure tactical options (you know Super offensive and super defensive) do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I've noticed in the past that changing to super offensive when chasing a game rarely seems to make any difference but in the Portugal match i thought i'd try to hold onto my lead so set it to super defensive about 70 minutes in when i was winning 4-3. It didn't do shit captain. My defenders were basically defending on the half way line, that's not even an exaggeration. I had 3 midfielders. The game should in theory push them back so they naturally anchor at the very least. It doesn't though. It felt like it made no difference whatsoever to the attacking play either and certainly nobody seemed to get back and i had as many runs being made as at any other point in the match.
 
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dannyfc2 said:
I'm not sold on this whole scripting debate.

Player's play above their stats on Top Player, thats a given, but using the Championship OF I'm seeing far too many miss-placed passes, scuffed shots, poor touches, errors from the AI to persuade me they're engineered to win.

I'll admit quite often they score suspiciously straight after I do. Their headers are too effective, and poor players do take on too many people, but overall I think the opposition AI is the best we've had.


Shooting really is bizarre though. I've grasped the power and can unleash some venom, but direction is truly broken. I deliberately hold down the left analog longer then before now, but even then, I've had shots fly off into the opposite corner. That's never happened before on previous games and I can honestly not understand what is going on. It's not a problem of just poor accuracy or miss-hits, I'm finding more of my shots hit the target than PES 2011 for instance. But the game will sometimes completely override your input, based on no context what so ever.

On a side-note I'm top of D2 on Top Player so far so something must have clicked. Compare that with my last effort where I went on a 9 game winless streak and was bottom by Christmas! Ramping up pressure to 'tight' helps loads defensively, and getting in a striker with high body balance does wonders. Really enjoying the physicality of this years game. Most balanced implementation of speed and strength in any PES game IMO.
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I notice this too but it's like they've conceded a goal and really want to come back and score an equaliser. What I have noticed though, is that they can create a chance from kick off but not always score it. It's a relief to see half the shots miss or else I'd really feel like I was being cheated.

And similar to what someone else said about the other team scoring with the only shot they've had, has no one seen this in real life? These things happen in real life and are frustrating as a supporter or coach. We need to be smarter to stop these things happening. Maybe change formation/tactics straight after we score a goal...foul higher up on the pitch etc.

Funny thing is - if you play MLO in coach mode, you see some fantastic football and shooting. I always like to watch what the AI is doing and see how they're doing it so I can pick up some little tips.
 
Jamezinho said:
Sorry Klash, I don't buy all this stuff about the -2 speed setting alleviating many of the game's ills. Anyway, that speed is just far too slow to me. It doesn't look or feel realistic at all.
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Are you on the xbox because i noticed when playing Demo 2 on xbox, -2 was much slower there compared to -2 on PS3 and PC. This could be the issue really. -2 on PS3 and PC is great, love it, now way it's too slow!

On your second point - again that's just more fixes that I shouldn't have to do.
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Hmm, disagree. It's a little too accurate but it's not cheating if it can be prevented without too much trouble :) . I think that falls into the same category as getting angry at the game engine when you lose 3-2 after being 2-0 but you don't adapt to the CPU changing tactics.
 
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klashman69 said:

Your biggest problem is you choosing, 0 speed and 1 bar passing and assuming it's the best for you without testing all of the speeds and passing bars out to find what you enjoy the most. You assumed every setting is based on simaultion where this is not the case anymore.

The game speed changes all the mechanics in the game!
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You didn't read my post properly did you? I clearly said dont tell me changing the game speed to -2 works because, and I'll quote in capitals so you dont miss it, "I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE IT DOESN'T". That should tell you that I have actually tested all of the speeds and passing bars and I have settled on the choices I mentioned.

The game speed DOES NOT change ALL the mechanics in the game. That is simply untrue. It does not fix the keepers, it does not prevent AI "god mode", it does not fix the broken passing or shooting, it does not fix the irritating stumbling animation, the super cancel issue, the floaty ball physics, the scripting or ANY of the points I mentioned does it? Why deny this? Why defend the indefensible?

You may PREFER playing on -2 but please dont try to tell people on this forum it somehow magically fixes the core game code because it's not true. Either your love of PES blinds you to this or you have some sort of other agenda, I neither know nor care. Lie to yourself all you want but dont try to tell me this game can be fixed by fiddling with a few options.

I put the game on again last night, played two Master League matches then two BAL matches and switched it off again. This is unheard of in my ISS/PES gaming history. That tells it's own story for me.

I really wish I was as blinkered as some people on these forums, I really do, but I just cannot ignore the irritating and glaring faults this game has.
 
pj_puttz said:
You didn't read my post properly did you? I clearly said dont tell me changing the game speed to -2 works because, and I'll quote in capitals so you dont miss it, "I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE IT DOESN'T". That should tell you that I have actually tested all of the speeds and passing bars and I have settled on the choices I mentioned.

The game speed DOES NOT change ALL the mechanics in the game. That is simply untrue. It does not fix the keepers, it does not prevent AI "god mode", it does not fix the broken passing or shooting, it does not fix the irritating stumbling animation, the super cancel issue, the floaty ball physics, the scripting or ANY of the points I mentioned does it? Why deny this? Why defend the indefensible?

You may PREFER playing on -2 but please dont try to tell people on this forum it somehow magically fixes the core game code because it's not true.
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Well from what i could see is that in your mind your never wrong!
Look at how you have described the game speed. Did i say that -2 'fixes' bugs or did i say -2 plays in my opinion the game at its most realstic so many of the things you have described as being arcadey will go and you can enjoy the game on those settings.

I don't know, maybe you where drunk or angry or something happen or you were plain determined to have an argument but to try and put words into my month in that i say putting the game on -2 fixes all it's bugs? REALLY? Are you ok? Maybe the gross misjudgement of what i said may speak volumes for your problems.

look here, i know what the bugs are i listed them as just bullet points for now which i will later expand on:
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2367027&postcount=235

It's on the other page so i'm sure you have read it. Pretty much destroys you who 'I think the game is perfect theory'.

Everyone knows the keepers have issues

AI "god mode" the cheating can be intense, from my experience it hapens on all speeds but much less so on -2 mainly because playing againt a variety of teams, the lesser teams they all have shit ball control and just can't run at you and take you on. It happens mostly from corners where they score cheap deflection goals.

Passing is certianly not broken and from what i seen in your arrogance, look around, anoyone else moaning about passing? i've heard 1 bar hass issues though from a few others so why not try another? In fact i find 0 easier than 1 bar.

The irritating stumbling animation is only irritating if you naively sprint around with players who have moderate or poor body balance and expect to win every tussle retaining perfect balance. It can be annoying at times but i don't mind it at all, having tussles which thankfully from the success i've had with Hannover barging players with Dider Ya Konan is reliant on how much body balance, weight and height your player is and how much stamina he has left. Remember most defenders have higher body balance on average.

Either your love of PES blinds you to this or you have some sort of other agenda, I neither know nor care. Lie to yourself all you want but dont try to tell me this game can be fixed by fiddling with a few options.
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So as i have explained maybe you shouldn't decide for yourself what i said, make up in your mind what my agenda is and instead actually try to take some friendly advice on board, and most importantly. Try to see where i am coming from. I was trying to help, i was not trying to fuck you wife.

I was telling you -2 was the best to use because if you want the game at it's most realistic (maybe you don't but you insinuated that) it may shift the positive balance so the positive aspects of the game begin to heavily outweight the negative.

Every game has bugs and issues, there always bugs an flaws to fix. But the most important factor is how much the positives outweight the negatives and for me the positive sides of the game are still very much outweighing the negative substantially. There's also what kind of person are you, glass half full or glass half empty.

The positives for me are the individuallity which shows itself at its highest on -2, Playing with Inter for example who are highly technical and gifted but are old and have low explosive power which makes them slow and rigid and lack movement, just like in real life, where as Napoli or dortmund aren't as knowledgable or gifted but have the explosive power to beat players and play great football.

Playing in the Bundersliga, playing vs a 2. league team Dusseldorf and how because of their shit technique they play to their strengths and hoof balls at you, while better teams will try to pass more, only hoof balls if they have a big man up top. Even while having the same generic crappy long ball tactic whoch means counter attack by the way :)

The new tactics system which is great, easy to use and quick and responsive, plus the endless possiblities into getting the Ai to play differently. The crazy amount of variety in goals and situations everygame throws up new challenges, even with many AI teams given the horrible long ball tactic.

Defending. How you really need to think, know your players and know what defensive style suits them as a collective team and individually. Knowing when to contain, when to pressure, when to use the offside trap, what tactics to use depeding on how quick or slow your players are, what level of technique they have?

I could go into far more detail if you want.

I put the game on again last night, played two Master League matches then two BAL matches and switched it off again. This is unheard of in my ISS/PES gaming history. That tells it's own story for me.

I really wish I was as blinkered as some people on these forums, I really do, but I just cannot ignore the irritating and glaring faults this game has.
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Sorry i really hate this attitude people have "I don't like the game so everyone else should hate it". "Everyone should be as miserbale as me while playing".

If i advise people to do something, i don't expect them to love it, everyone has their own preference, but don't come at me for not being miserable and trying to help.

Thank you and goodbye and good luck.
 
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klashman, you're missing the point - we ALL want to enjoy the game!

Many don't enjoy it, and the slower speed changes nothing!

I'm glad you enjoy it on -2 but I don't and I'm sure most don't either! The ball is like a balloon, the players can outrun it and it's like playing a game in slow motion!

Each to their own but I have played this game over and over and it's just not up to scratch. If it doesn't look like the demo gameplay is coming back via a patch then I'm selling it. I still play the demo sometimes just to depress myself and it's MILES better in multiplayer.

All those videos about 'Active AI' and it's been totally removed from the full game because people wanted every goalkeeper to be like petr cech.

Glad their dreams came true.
 
Also, while I'm ranting, the dice is so loaded in 1 player it's a complete joke. It's not an even playing field and the players you aren't (and often can't) control are absolutely dopey and disinterested.

Saw my forward racing against a cpu defender today, cpu completely sped up (Wondengine Town defender) and made Connor Sammon look like an OAP.

Also, blocking the passing lanes counts for nothing when the computer feels like scoring, they can slide it through your player at will, cross it in to a 5ft striker and a 6ft defender, both fixed on the spot, and the striker will get a clean header in to the corner.

I've paid money to watch this shit unfold.

Conami
 
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