The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Jamezinho]

PES2012 feeling 'like the PS2 days' is a huge part of the problem for me. Like LTFC said, that's not what we should be aiming for in a literal sense. I'm all for retaining the fundamentals of PES5 - the things that made it the greatest ever football game - but they need to be encased in up-to-date tech. We need lifelike and contextual animations, a sense of inertia, foot-planting, proper collisions, and realistic, consistent ball physics that's totally free of scripting and odd behaviour. These are not just superficial, graphical upgrades - these are key components of creating a believable, modern football game.

Konami have failed completely in this respect.

The trouble is, even the fundamentals of PES2012 feel worse than the PS2 days, that's the depressing thing.

Firstly, in PES5 players looked and felt individual in every way. It was truly brilliant what Konami achieved back then. Not only was the representation of the stats spot on, the animations did a better job of conveying that individuality. Players moved differently from the way they strike the ball to the length of stride in their run, to free kick styles. I know all of this still exists but it's not as varied or well executed.

Secondly, the balance of the game in PES5 was so much better, even without the current AI engine. It just worked. Defensive lines were strong yet the act of defending cleanly was an art. Team mates movement and positioning was realistic. Shooting felt good. The tactical element was as good as it's ever been. All this without 360 degree movement and all the other current 'innovations'.

PES should have been re-written from the ground up for PES2008. They could have retained the key elements of PES5 but encased it in a much more advanced graphical and physical engine that could have taken PES to next level. It's too late now. With PS4 and Xbox720 on the horizon Konami face the very real risk of hitting the next generation consoles starting with what is essentially a PS2 engine. I have no doubt that EA will, in the meantime, make another massive push to up their tech game and be ready.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

You know there is majorly wrong somewhere with the game if you look at these poll results....

Only 44% of people like the full game as it is now, while 56% prefer it how it was before the patch or they dont like it at all.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Yeah it's not great, after playing 2011 all year round this was my most anticipated game of the year, even higher than Battlefield 3. I've been whinging so much on here because I never expected to be thinking about selling the game just a fortnight after release.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

PES2012 feeling 'like the PS2 days' is a huge part of the problem for me. Like LTFC said, that's not what we should be aiming for in a literal sense. I'm all for retaining the fundamentals of PES5 - the things that made it the greatest ever football game - but they need to be encased in up-to-date tech. We need lifelike and contextual animations, a sense of inertia, foot-planting, proper collisions, and realistic, consistent ball physics that's totally free of scripting and odd behaviour. These are not just superficial, graphical upgrades - these are key components of creating a believable, modern football game.

Konami have failed completely in this respect.

The trouble is, even the fundamentals of PES2012 feel worse than the PS2 days, that's the depressing thing.

Firstly, in PES5 players looked and felt individual in every way. It was truly brilliant what Konami achieved back then. Not only was the representation of the stats spot on, the animations did a better job of conveying that individuality. Players moved differently from the way they strike the ball to the length of stride in their run, to free kick styles. I know all of this still exists but it's not as varied or well executed.

Secondly, the balance of the game in PES5 was so much better, even without the current AI engine. It just worked. Defensive lines were strong yet the act of defending cleanly was an art. Team mates movement and positioning was realistic. Shooting felt good. The tactical element was as good as it's ever been. All this without 360 degree movement and all the other current 'innovations'.

PES should have been re-written from the ground up for PES2008. They could have retained the key elements of PES5 but encased it in a much more advanced graphical and physical engine that could have taken PES to next level. It's too late now. With PS4 and Xbox720 on the horizon Konami face the very real risk of hitting the next generation consoles starting with what is essentially a PS2 engine. I have no doubt that EA will, in the meantime, make another massive push to up their tech game and be ready.

I genuinely think if they used PES2011 as a base, made little changes like;

- quick throw ins (but actual quick throw in - the current quick ones in 2012 are slower than regular ones!)
- give you greater control over the keeper when he has the ball
- added little things like short corners etc by bringing over a man to the ball
- greatly improve player animations
- give ball physics slightly more 'bounce' in the way it rolls and bobbles along the ground
- improve on the game's textures and lighting effects
- improve the game's commentary and sound
- make the AI more attacking

then you'd have a perfect sequel that builds upon what we've already enjoyed. It feels like a total step backwards in terms of pandering to a market that was left behind in the last gen of consoles 7-8 years ago.

 

[bagrat]

i duno sometimes i just think maybe we thought the old pes games were so good because there was no other competition thats what i think sometimes.

pes is done for this gen they could make the game SO GOOD in every aspect but instead decided to stick to ps2 engine because they didn't expect fifa to up their game so much. but even the old pes games had a lot of problems i just think we all praise them so much because they looked good back then compared to how bad fifa was then. I think a lot of it goes down to that.

i hope konami sort something out for the next gen

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

last night the game would not allow me to manually select my keeper and low and behold the AI scores a perfect 35 yard free kick, the depths this game sinks to are almost embarrassing. I conceded another 30 yard free kick 5 minutes later, this time I was allowed to select and move my keeper only to see the ball fly in the opposite corner.

Manual goalkeeper works when it feels like it, if this error is purposely in the game to force you to concede konami should be ashamed of themselves, imagine playing a First person shooter where you are not allowed to reload so the AI can kill you, strange analogy I know but this game is beyond petty at times.

Another thing, deflections in this game almost act like perfectly waited passes for the AI, fucking infuriating making perfect tackle after perfect tackle only to see the ball bobble back to the AI.

 

[bagrat]

konami are still making this like it's the ps2 days, japan are so far ahead of us that they are behind us now :p (dumb joke)

also i think the game looks shit, i hate how there is no feeling to the stadiums every stadium turf looks the same (although the created stadiums look better) it just looks like a ps2 game to me.

i have my xbox fully hooked up to a hd tv all other games look good but on pes for some reason in day time matches the turf and lighting flicker? i mean seriously. the camera angles suck balls too i don't know what they do over at konami but i just find it weird all this fantasy thought of pes "oh look do the passes" it's fucking gay and it sucks balls

there are some things i like about this game but some things that are just unacceptable

i think they are just waiting for the next gen then they will give us the version that should have been on the 360/ps3 and we won't know any better because we havn't seen it

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

i have my xbox fully hooked up to a hd tv all other games look good but on pes for some reason in day time matches the turf and lighting flicker? i mean seriously.

I thought this was a problem with my TV, i am always seeing the pitch flicker different shades of green yet it never happened with the pitches in Fifa, What TV you got?

 

[Autogolazo]

there are some things i like about this game but some things that are just unacceptable

That sums it up for me.

 

[bagrat]

i think they are just waiting for the next gen then they will give us the version that should have been on the 360/ps3 and we won't know any better because we havn't seen it

just incase you missed that ^

and i have a panasonic 42" i don't know the exact model of the tv but its a pretty good hd tv, it's so frustrating when i pass the ball near the top of the screen the pitch flickers LOL

also what are these patches everyone is banging on about?

 

[ctruppi]

I totally understand and agree with your frustrations, LT. I've been a big supporter of PES over the years - often blindly when I should have been more critical - so it pains me to say it; the PES series is in a real bad way. It's just a mess of bodges and sticking plasters over an ageing and obsolete engine that Konami seem desperate to get a few more miles out of.

As I said in the other thread, I've picked up Fifa 12 and have put three or fours hours into it today. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with it. Actually, more than that, I'm really enjoying the game. It's an all-round solid and impressive product, especially in the gameplay department which has never been the case before for me. The sliders are really effective and have already helped overcome a number of issues I normally have with Fifa. I can fine-tune the offline experience to my liking.

I never thought I'd say this but Fifa 12 has that 'one more game' factor synonymous of classic PES. I've had many cracking games against the AI, nearly always eventful and entertaining, with a surprising level of player individuality on display, which is, again, PES's historical forté. This coupled to a stunning animation and collision engine, crisp graphics, excellent commentary and audio, and a depth of teams and content, and I'm left feeling fairly nonplussed about PES.

Really I should be worried for PES as my reasons for sticking with the series are either gradually slipping away or being bettered by the competition. I'm actually quite angry with Konami in reality. The warning shot was fired across their bow back in 2007 when EA released Fifa 08. That game was the start of the new generation of football games and, while far from perfect, it demonstrated how the genre should look, feel and play on this generation of consoles. Rather than learn from the competition Konami continued with an old engine that is clearly not up to the task any more.

I'm kind of fed up of supporting Konami really. We hear all this stuff about PES2011/12 having two year development cycles but in reality I've seen precious little evidence of that. PES2012 is simply last years game with a worse passing system, worse graphics, and AI that, while impressive, is massively unbalanced (read scripted).

Sorry for the rant but I have to vent. I had grand visions of what Seabass could do with the current tech back when I was playing PES5 in 2005. He always talked of having so many ideas that he wanted to implement but was shackled by the PS2.

In reality he's done precisely fuck all with the series.

So let me get this straight, you picked up a sports title, and IMMEDIATELY (within a couple of hours, your own words) had success with it. Sorry, not trying to be an a-hole here, but to me that is the exact definition of a shitty sports title, esp a football one where mastering individual skill on both attack and defense is so crucial. The fact that ANYONE can pick up FIFA and immediately find rewarding gameply makes it shit to me and tells me it's a game designed for a general audience and children (my 9 year old son prefers FIFA to PES for this reason).

NBA 2K11 & now 2K12 are generally considered the greatest sports video games ever. I dare anyone to pick up those games and have immediate success. Learning the myriad moves, understanding basic and post defense, mastering the shot stick are all incredibly hard in the game, but mimick real basketball in an uncanny way and are worth the time and effort to master. Getting your ass kicked in NBA2K12 for several weeks is accepted as part of learning what eventually becomes an amazing experience.

I've read you state that you just want to put a game in and play (I'm paraphrasing here). Fine, FIFA gives you that. PES, thankfully, never has and hopefully never will. As somoene who constantly states that he was a PES fan back in the day, it sounds like you've changed and you want PES to cater to you. I call bullshit on that. I've been playing PES12 for a month now and it's clicked for me like crazy. The defense system is amazing and realisitic ONCE IT CLICKS!! It didn't happen in the 1st 3 hours of playing, it happened i the 2nd 3 weeks. Is PES perfect? No freaking way. But the matches I have on it are so much better and more rewarding than FIFA 12 (yes, it's in my home) that it's remarkable to me that the 2 titles are even in the same genre. When I play CL with Napoli and tie Barca 1-1 away and win 2-1 home to advance it's because I'VE MASTERED the very difficult, but rewarding systems, not because the game is designed to make it easy for me to do so.

 

[Ameppe]

With PS4 and Xbox720 on the horizon Konami face the very real risk of hitting the next generation consoles starting with what is essentially a PS2 engine. I have no doubt that EA will, in the meantime, make another massive push to up their tech game and be ready.

i have heard rumours they are already working on something for next gen
it would be really amateurish if they would repeat the same mistake

anyway i agree with everything LTFC says especially about pes 2011 being as the only good and realistic pes game so far. I agree too when he talks about pes 2012 being arcade like pes 6.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

i think they are just waiting for the next gen then they will give us the version that should have been on the 360/ps3 and we won't know any better because we havn't seen it

just incase you missed that ^

and i have a panasonic 42" i don't know the exact model of the tv but its a pretty good hd tv, it's so frustrating when i pass the ball near the top of the screen the pitch flickers LOL

also what are these patches everyone is banging on about?

Mines is a Sammy Plasma so it's defo the game then and not the TV.

i have heard rumours they are already working on something for next gen
it would be really amateurish if they would repeat the same mistake

anyway i agree with everything LTFC says especially about pes 2011 being as the only good and realistic pes game so far. I agree too when he talks about pes 2012 being arcade like pes 6.

With fansites dishing out 9's left right and center Konami could well be thinking there is plenty more room in the tank for the PS2 engine.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

last night the game would not allow me to manually select my keeper and low and behold the AI scores a perfect 35 yard free kick, the depths this game sinks to are almost embarrassing. I conceded another 30 yard free kick 5 minutes later, this time I was allowed to select and move my keeper only to see the ball fly in the opposite corner.

Manual goalkeeper works when it feels like it, if this error is purposely in the game to force you to concede konami should be ashamed of themselves, imagine playing a First person shooter where you are not allowed to reload so the AI can kill you, strange analogy I know but this game is beyond petty at times.

Another thing, deflections in this game almost act like perfectly waited passes for the AI, fucking infuriating making perfect tackle after perfect tackle only to see the ball bobble back to the AI.

That was another thing I noticed last night, the rebounds fell my way as much as they did in favour of the CPU. That stood out post-patch, forgot to mention that before, but it was very noticable to me.

 

[Sabac Red]

re: pes 2012 discussion thread .......

Have to agree on peoples strong opinions that pes has gone downhill. Haven't been to bothered about playing it tbh the game lacks the spark and magic moments from it's prime years. Hate to say it but Fifa has those moments now, playing round a friends last night and drilled a 35yd shot into the bottom corner gave everyone a thrill in room, can't say the same for pes 11 as it was easy to score from distance and 12 well the shooting is botched so no excitement for the automated function.

Really thinking about ditching pes12 for Fifa which would be a first for me, pes has become a chore just overall, Fifa is not perfect and there are aspects of the game that bug me but it's not as bad as pes flaws with it's outdated engine.

Seabass says there will be a change for 2013, heard it all before unless the I hear they've implemented a brand new engine and that the game has been built from a new base then I don't want to know. Most likely 2013 will be a tweaked up version of 2012 with all the bugs and flaws taken out

 

[UTD-PEARSON]

That was another thing I noticed last night, the rebounds fell my way as much as they did in favour of the CPU. That stood out post-patch, forgot to mention that before, but it was very noticable to me.

I felt the same in both versions with regards to deflections, of course it can differ from match to match and sometimes goes my way but I didn't notice a difference between the patches(probably played a week with the patch and 4-5 days without).

I love Saturdays, watching football then raping my master league is what today will consist off, loving offline master league despite the irritating cut scenes. I have come to the final conclusion that after rigorous testing the game is better without the patch offline against the AI.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

So let me get this straight, you picked up a sports title, and IMMEDIATELY (within a couple of hours, your own words) had success with it. Sorry, not trying to be an a-hole here, but to me that is the exact definition of a shitty sports title, esp a football one where mastering individual skill on both attack and defense is so crucial. The fact that ANYONE can pick up FIFA and immediately find rewarding gameply makes it shit to me and tells me it's a game designed for a general audience and children (my 9 year old son prefers FIFA to PES for this reason).

NBA 2K11 & now 2K12 are generally considered the greatest sports video games ever. I dare anyone to pick up those games and have immediate success. Learning the myriad moves, understanding basic and post defense, mastering the shot stick are all incredibly hard in the game, but mimick real basketball in an uncanny way and are worth the time and effort to master. Getting your ass kicked in NBA2K12 for several weeks is accepted as part of learning what eventually becomes an amazing experience.

I've read you state that you just want to put a game in and play (I'm paraphrasing here). Fine, FIFA gives you that. PES, thankfully, never has and hopefully never will. As somoene who constantly states that he was a PES fan back in the day, it sounds like you've changed and you want PES to cater to you. I call bullshit on that. I've been playing PES12 for a month now and it's clicked for me like crazy. The defense system is amazing and realisitic ONCE IT CLICKS!! It didn't happen in the 1st 3 hours of playing, it happened i the 2nd 3 weeks. Is PES perfect? No freaking way. But the matches I have on it are so much better and more rewarding than FIFA 12 (yes, it's in my home) that it's remarkable to me that the 2 titles are even in the same genre. When I play CL with Napoli and tie Barca 1-1 away and win 2-1 home to advance it's because I'VE MASTERED the very difficult, but rewarding systems, not because the game is designed to make it easy for me to do so.

Sorry I have to intervene there, but he NEVER said he was having success. He merely states he's enjoying FIFA a lot more. If you play video games and measure 'success' as your win/loss ratio then fair play, but some of us want to be entertained in terms of gameplay, and visual and audio. I don't doubt PES2012 is hard to master, I'm frickin' terrible at it, but it's just not fun for some of us. To some of us, it feels old, it feels like a step back, and it feels dated. When I first played FIFA12 I absolutely loved it, immediately. I got hammered by the AI repeatedly, but I didn't mind that I had a lot to learn because the game was so much fun in so many ways, most notably how much more advanced it has become as a realistic replication of the game.

I just don't buy the idea that the game is boring and stilted until you put weeks and weeks into it. The core gameplay is still too fast, too reliant on through-balls and counter attacking, and this is because the game does a lousy job of replicating the midfield battles you get in real sport. For me, with sliders attached, FIFA offers a far more realistic replication of the flow and tempo of a real match. Forget the player individuality stuff, which apart from player first touch I think FIFA now has an advantage (only with sliders adjusted though).

Both patched and unpatched versions rely on AI cramming players deep (yes even pre-patch today I noticed they had 9 men in their own box when I had the ball in the centre circle - ridiculous), and because players are deep, and cant' keep decent possession of the ball, they counter at speed and constantly spam through passes and early crosses. Doesn't feel like a real game at all to me.

 

[Jamezinho]

So let me get this straight, you picked up a sports title, and IMMEDIATELY (within a couple of hours, your own words) had success with it. Sorry, not trying to be an a-hole here, but to me that is the exact definition of a shitty sports title, esp a football one where mastering individual skill on both attack and defense is so crucial. The fact that ANYONE can pick up FIFA and immediately find rewarding gameply makes it shit to me and tells me it's a game designed for a general audience and children (my 9 year old son prefers FIFA to PES for this reason).

LTFC has beaten me to it (and thanks for doing so) but.......hold on a minute - where did I say I was having success with FIFA12? Either quote me on it (in my own words) or I will "call bullshit" on you for putting words in my mouth and trying to paint a picture of me as some petulant, impatient, flippant gamer who forms quick opinions without substance.

The truth is, after two days play I've won four games of Fifa in about twenty matches. Not exactly instant success is it? And nor did I say so. What I did say is I was enjoying Fifa for it's satisfying and solid gameplay, plus the all-round audio-visual package is very immersive. I've found it to be an instantly gratifying game to play, especially the shooting which is as good as any football game I've played. That's one of the most satisfying parts of football so if a game gets that right it's always got a certain re-playability about it.

Regardless, I'm finding Fifa a good challenge and I still have a lot to learn after not playing it for a couple of years. It's certainly not coming easy to me as you suggest.

So yes, you have come across as an a-hole there.

NBA 2K11 & now 2K12 are generally considered the greatest sports video games ever. I dare anyone to pick up those games and have immediate success. Learning the myriad moves, understanding basic and post defense, mastering the shot stick are all incredibly hard in the game, but mimick real basketball in an uncanny way and are worth the time and effort to master. Getting your ass kicked in NBA2K12 for several weeks is accepted as part of learning what eventually becomes an amazing experience.

Agreed. I get my arse kicked all the time in NBA 2K even though I've been playing it for about five years. See above though. Thankfully success is not my measure of the game. It's fantastic, win or lose.

I've read you state that you just want to put a game in and play (I'm paraphrasing here). Fine, FIFA gives you that. PES, thankfully, never has and hopefully never will. As somoene who constantly states that he was a PES fan back in the day, it sounds like you've changed and you want PES to cater to you. I call bullshit on that. I've been playing PES12 for a month now and it's clicked for me like crazy. The defense system is amazing and realisitic ONCE IT CLICKS!! It didn't happen in the 1st 3 hours of playing, it happened i the 2nd 3 weeks. Is PES perfect? No freaking way. But the matches I have on it are so much better and more rewarding than FIFA 12 (yes, it's in my home) that it's remarkable to me that the 2 titles are even in the same genre. When I play CL with Napoli and tie Barca 1-1 away and win 2-1 home to advance it's because I'VE MASTERED the very difficult, but rewarding systems, not because the game is designed to make it easy for me to do so.

No need to call bullshit. It's my opinion. Everyone wants a game to cater to them. More importantly, I just want PES to be as good as it could and should be, and six years into this generation of consoles it's still a long way off.

I'm glad it's clicked for you, and I respect that. Not for me though, so respect my opinion too. Having played football games for the best part of the last twenty years I know a good football game (or what appeals to me at least) so I don't need to be told to give a game time, do this or change that. I know PES as well as anyone.

This year for me it's a disappointment, plain and simple. I don't mind spending hours patching or tweaking stats if the game is worth it. PES usually is, but not this year for me.

 

[balasco]

What is it with this game and having to compromise for the sheer oddest of reasons. I want to use LT for jockeying because i feel that it is far more natural to do so but it means that super cancel does not work. Cool game Konami.

The strange thing here is that I only get this problem with a 360 controller. All my old pc controllers work fine when I switch pace control to LT.

So just of curiosity what controller are you using?

 

[bagrat]

and the shooting is fucking gay too why does everything go straight to the keeper? why? most of the times a long distance goal feels crap because i think "wtf was the keeper doing he could have saved it"

also the shooting just feels so..like theres no umph/oomfh behind it (however that word is spelt) a lot of shots feel like scuffed miss-hits or something i mean what the actual fuck. and one thing i miss is how when you used to be one on one with the keeper there used to be an annimation where the attacker would "open his body up" so to speak and curl it and aim towards the corner this would happen without the help of the r2 shot which is shit in this game and doesn't even aim towards the corners.

the feeling of shots a lot of the time is so bad especially when you score a goal that went in at minus 300mph....just doesn't feel like a good goal, just a mess and i doubt 2013 will be different fucking ps2 engine

 

[Northzzz]

The strange thing here is that I only get this problem with a 360 controller. All my old pc controllers work fine when I switch pace control to LT.

So just of curiosity what controller are you using?

360 controller

 

[ctruppi]

LTFC has beaten me to it (and thanks for doing so) but.......hold on a minute - where did I say I was having success with FIFA12? Either quote me on it (in my own words) or I will "call bullshit" on you for putting words in my mouth and trying to paint a picture of me as some petulant, impatient, flippant gamer who forms quick opinions without substance.

The truth is, after two days play I've won four games of Fifa in about twenty matches. Not exactly instant success is it? And nor did I say so. What I did say is I was enjoying Fifa for it's satisfying and solid gameplay, plus the all-round audio-visual package is very immersive. I've found it to be an instantly gratifying game to play, especially the shooting which is as good as any football game I've played. That's one of the most satisfying parts of football so if a game gets that right it's always got a certain re-playability about it.

Regardless, I'm finding Fifa a good challenge and I still have a lot to learn after not playing it for a couple of years. It's certainly not coming easy to me as you suggest.

So yes, you have come across as an a-hole there.



Agreed. I get my arse kicked all the time in NBA 2K even though I've been playing it for about five years. See above though. Thankfully success is not my measure of the game. It's fantastic, win or lose.



No need to call bullshit. It's my opinion. Everyone wants a game to cater to them. More importantly, I just want PES to be as good as it could and should be, and six years into this generation of consoles it's still a long way off.

I'm glad it's clicked for you, and I respect that. Not for me though, so respect my opinion too. Having played football games for the best part of the last twenty years I know a good football game (or what appeals to me at least) so I don't need to be told to give a game time, do this or change that. I know PES as well as anyone.

This year for me it's a disappointment, plain and simple. I don't mind spending hours patching or tweaking stats if the game is worth it. PES usually is, but not this year for me.

Sorry if I came on a bit strong. Been a tough week travelling for business and my son is hogging up the PS3 playing AC (his Mom promised him he could have extended play session based on school work while I was gone).

Maybe I can make my point in a more civil way. I've frequented these boards for many years and what I see with PES is the same every year. Look through old posts for PES4, PES5 & PES6. The comments for the 1st month of each of these games being released is always full of criticism and hate of the latest release until something changes several weeks after release and suddenly everyone loves it. However, through all these iterations, there's always that small cabal that still praises FIFA and it's really entirely based on one thing - LICENSES. The core PES community always mocked these people for their shallowness and willingness to sacrifice gameplay for the visual bells and whistles. It seems now that some in that community have changed. For them, PES08-PES10 created too much ill-will towards the franchise that they are no longer willing to overlook the many issues with the engine and licenses and visuals to see the brilliant underlying gameplay that can potentially be mastered. They ultimately blame Konami, when in reality, it is they who have changed their attitudes and approach to soccer video games. This is just their opinion and they are entitled to it.

You didn't indicate a won-loss record with FIFA, but based on your comments of both games I infered that what floats your boat these days is the ability to pop a disc into your PC, PS3 or Xbox360, tweak a few sliders and e start playing enjoyable football. Again that's fine and to each their own. But where I take exception is when you and others complain about PES w/o putting in the amount of time to overcome these issues. I know that these issues are not a problem because I don't have them anymore, just like all the issues that everyone had with the so-called golden age of PES.

You say that everyone wants a game that caters to them. I don't agree with that, I would say I don't want a game that caters to everyone. When my son and his friends pop in a soccer game, it's FIFA - not because the gamplay is deeper, or the tacical options are more in-depth, but because it's WAY, WAY easier. PES just requires too much concentration and work for the average 9-year old.

Finally, I have one more thought. I would respect the "opinions" of anyone who prefers FIFA much more if they would be the tiniest bit honest and for once post that if FIFA didn't have the licenses, they wouldn't think about playing it. Thing is, I was having these discussions and debates PES vs FIFA on gaming boards during the PES3-PES6 era. FIFA backers had the same complaints about why they don't play PES that you've listed ad infinitum these past several pages.

I hope you enjoy FIFA and hope that Konami can convince you to return in the future, although not by EVER, EVER making a "pop-in and play" type of game. I hope they never make a game that doesn't take weeks to master and click with. I just hope you change your attitiude and see that it's worth the time and effort.

 

[Lons]

@Jamezinho, LTFC

In one hand you all the time said aboud magic PS2 days etc How game was good on PS2, how you like it (bla bla bla). In another hand you said don't like Pes 2012. You know and I know that Pes 2012 looks similar to PS2 old Pes of style. Pfff what do you want? I'm confused.... For me it's ridiculous like Pes 2011 more than 2012. Sorry.... Do you want tell me that:

1. In Pes 2011 ball physics was better? Nooo

2. In Pes 2011 graphics was better on Ps3? Nooo

3. In Pes 2011 controls of players was better? Nooo

4. In Pes 2011 responisive was better? Nooo

5. In Pes 2011 power bar was better? Nooo

6. In Pes 2011 animations were better? Noo

7. In Pes 2011 physically players were better? Noo

8. Online was better in Pes 2011 i mean less lags etc? Noo

8. In Pes 20111 passing was better? Maybe yes but in demo but in full ver. no after patch. It's was script like in Pes 2012 in full assist.

9. Shooting and passing in full assist are problem in Pes 2012.
How you can like more Pes 2011. I never understand...never...

 

[Keith Houchen]

Thing is, I was having these discussions and debates PES vs FIFA on gaming boards during the PES3-PES6 era.

I respectfully submit that you were not having any such discussions and debates in the PES3-PES6 era. Any that you were having would have been fitful and random interludes, with any FIFA-admirers being rarer than passing comets. We never talked about FIFA back in the glory days. Today, the PES-FIFA discussion is a routine feature of the PES internet.

I go way back on the forums as well, having read the PES internet a lot since around 2003 (mostly as a lurker, not a poster). Even without delving into the archives and/or Wayback Machine, I assert that, before FIFA08, there were no such similar PES-FIFA discussions as there are, routinely, today. Nowhere near the same intensity. It's utterly different now, and yes I know you don't like it – hell, I don't like it, because of what it signifies – but it's true.

FIFA08 instantly changed the dynamic of the relationship between PES and FIFA. Next-gen PES2008 kindly gave the enemy a helping hand over the wall. The PES-related internet was changed accordingly. This year the tension is ratcheted up higher than ever with the best next-gen FIFA ever.

For the record, I currently prefer PES2012 and am playing it with gusto. I believe you're quite correct to opine that time will tease out more and more of its qualities.

I have also played and rate FIFA12 very highly indeed, and find the doggedly pro-PES partisans' constant leaning upon FIFA12's "licenses, kids, tricks, graphics, casuals", etc., very confusing. They're a kind of comfort food. You'll most likely go on believing in the myth of FIFA's licenses no matter what, even if every grown man with a decade+ of PES gaming under his belt swears differently, in blood. That amazes me. It's a genuine phenomenon.

Gameplay truly is fundamental, and FIFA12 has it in spades. The ball and players are heavy. Passing moves and thought and subtlety exist. Shooting is rewarding. Watching somebody, child or adult, batter the AI 6-0 on assisted controls in FIFA12 whilst having a good time doesn't count as a valid critique of FIFA12 – any more than the average Keystone Cops match of assisted PES2012 online counts as a valid critique of PES2012.

Can't see it? Well, look at it this way. Why is it deemed correct to spend days or weeks teasing out the best of PES2012, but only hours (or minutes) on FIFA12?

I'll get back to PES2012 now I am playing PES2012, not FIFA12 – it's a long year ahead and I'm delighted to have both games available to play and enjoy. It's the first time that has ever been the case. We're lucky people, if we only knew it.

 

[Jamezinho]

Sorry if I came on a bit strong. Been a tough week travelling for business and my son is hogging up the PS3 playing AC (his Mom promised him he could have extended play session based on school work while I was gone).

Maybe I can make my point in a more civil way. I've frequented these boards for many years and what I see with PES is the same every year. Look through old posts for PES4, PES5 & PES6. The comments for the 1st month of each of these games being released is always full of criticism and hate of the latest release until something changes several weeks after release and suddenly everyone loves it. However, through all these iterations, there's always that small cabal that still praises FIFA and it's really entirely based on one thing - LICENSES. The core PES community always mocked these people for their shallowness and willingness to sacrifice gameplay for the visual bells and whistles. It seems now that some in that community have changed. For them, PES08-PES10 created too much ill-will towards the franchise that they are no longer willing to overlook the many issues with the engine and licenses and visuals to see the brilliant underlying gameplay that can potentially be mastered. They ultimately blame Konami, when in reality, it is they who have changed their attitudes and approach to soccer video games. This is just their opinion and they are entitled to it.

You didn't indicate a won-loss record with FIFA, but based on your comments of both games I infered that what floats your boat these days is the ability to pop a disc into your PC, PS3 or Xbox360, tweak a few sliders and e start playing enjoyable football. Again that's fine and to each their own. But where I take exception is when you and others complain about PES w/o putting in the amount of time to overcome these issues. I know that these issues are not a problem because I don't have them anymore, just like all the issues that everyone had with the so-called golden age of PES.

You say that everyone wants a game that caters to them. I don't agree with that, I would say I don't want a game that caters to everyone. When my son and his friends pop in a soccer game, it's FIFA - not because the gamplay is deeper, or the tacical options are more in-depth, but because it's WAY, WAY easier. PES just requires too much concentration and work for the average 9-year old.

Finally, I have one more thought. I would respect the "opinions" of anyone who prefers FIFA much more if they would be the tiniest bit honest and for once post that if FIFA didn't have the licenses, they wouldn't think about playing it. Thing is, I was having these discussions and debates PES vs FIFA on gaming boards during the PES3-PES6 era. FIFA backers had the same complaints about why they don't play PES that you've listed ad infinitum these past several pages.

I hope you enjoy FIFA and hope that Konami can convince you to return in the future, although not by EVER, EVER making a "pop-in and play" type of game. I hope they never make a game that doesn't take weeks to master and click with. I just hope you change your attitiude and see that it's worth the time and effort.

Fair play.

What I will say is this; I have played PES2012 for two weeks now and I don't feel any different about the game. Having been with PES and ISS since the very beginning I am well aware of the usual 'bedding-in' period that is required to get the most from a Konami football game, yet every year I see the potential from the first few plays. So believe me, I'm not dismissing PES2012 out of hand but this year it's not for me.

Also, trust me when I say that licences are not a reason I play FIFA. I wouldn't have stuck with and largely preferred PES for all these years otherwise. I consider myself more of a hardcore football gamer and gameplay is always king, but I can't dismiss the important roles that animations, fluidity and the all-round package play in making a football game complete.

It's true that I have changed my attitude to football games over the last couple of years. Actually, more pertinently, I've changed my attitude towards Konami. They have consistently delivered greatness in the past, but I'm tired of waiting for them to do it on this generation of consoles. In fact, I'm even questioning if they are capable any more. I get a sense that PES has lost it's direction somewhat.

There's a very viable alternative available and this year I'm going to play it.

@Jamezinho, LTFC

In one hand you all the time said aboud magic PS2 days etc How game was good on PS2, how you like it (bla bla bla). In another hand you said don't like Pes 2012. You know and I know that Pes 2012 looks similar to PS2 old Pes of style. Pfff what do you want? I'm confused.... For me it's ridiculous like Pes 2011 more than 2012. Sorry....

Read again what LTFC and myself have posted. For us PES5 was fantastic - the high point of the PES series - but that was then and this is now. Games have moved forward in the meantime. The fundamentals of PES5 are still very important to me but the all-round product needs to feel fresh, modern and cutting edge.

Some people are happy playing an attempted re-hash of PES5 in faux-HD clothing, but not me. You may ask why I bought PES2012 as the demos gave an indication of what to expect? Well, the difference is I enjoyed the gameplay in the demos quite a lot, which enabled me to overlook the other issues. The final game is different and not the experience that grabbed me in the demos.

 

[Ameppe]

You may ask why I bought PES2012 as the demos gave an indication of what to expect? Well, the difference is I enjoyed the gameplay in the demos quite a lot, which enabled me to overlook the other issues. The final game is different and not the experience that grabbed me in the demos.

i don't understand how you changed opinion so much from demos to final game. To be honest i feel there are little differences
i'm answering you but i'm talking to everyone discussing about how much they loved demos and how much they hate the final game.

I simply cannot understand. The Pes 2012 core gameplay in demos and final game is exactly the same.
Passing in demos is random like in final game.
Keepers are bad like in demo (obviously better because of patch, but not yet at good levels)
Ball physics is the same
clipping is the same
cheating AI is the same

 

[Jamezinho]

Patch v1.01 is different. I thought that was an accepted fact? The defending team camps in and around their own penalty area, something which I don't find realistic. Every match is a frustrating, joyless grind-fest.

I've been playing on v1.00 and prefer it. I certainly don't hate the game and can't ever remember saying so. I'll probably keep hold of it and continue playing 1.00 as I will get a lot of value out of the Champions League mode and the amount of national teams in the game. But I can't see myself investing a huge amount of time in PES this year. There's too many more impressive games out there to play.

 

[Lons]

i don't understand how you changed opinion so much from demos to final game. To be honest i feel there are little differences
i'm answering you but i'm talking to everyone discussing about how much they loved demos and how much they hate the final game.

I simply cannot understand. The Pes 2012 core gameplay in demos and final game is exactly the same.
Passing in demos is random like in final game.
Keepers are bad like in demo (obviously better because of patch, but not yet at good levels)
Ball physics is the same
clipping is the same
cheating AI is the same

I agree but:

- Demo 1 technically was worse than full

- Demo 2 was to fast and feel so arcade.

Full is better.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

i don't understand how you changed opinion so much from demos to final game. To be honest i feel there are little differences
i'm answering you but i'm talking to everyone discussing about how much they loved demos and how much they hate the final game.

I simply cannot understand. The Pes 2012 core gameplay in demos and final game is exactly the same.
Passing in demos is random like in final game.
Keepers are bad like in demo (obviously better because of patch, but not yet at good levels)
Ball physics is the same
clipping is the same
cheating AI is the same

I totally disagree with you here, Final game with patch plays nothing like the demo's, and even pre patch while it plays far better and certainly more like the demo's it still doesnt feel as good.

 

[balasco]

360 controller

Fixed it. Change from DirectInput to XIput in settings.exe.