The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Suuuuupertalk]

I don't know where all this stuff about a lack of active AI has come from. Even on patch 1.01, the AI plays in basically the same way, just less openly leaving itself open on the break.

When I have the ball I see plent of off the ball runs, they're just picked up a bit better by AI defenders. But have the ball in midfield and you can guarantee a full back will instantly make a run to support, and players make runs backwards to support you by being an option in space to pass to.

It's the same AI just with both teams not going all out attack, which to my mind makes it more realistic than every game featuring constant counter attacking. Now that does make the game seem 'arcadey' as people like to band around at the moment.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

klashman, you're missing the point - we ALL want to enjoy the game!

Many don't enjoy it, and the slower speed changes nothing!

I'm glad you enjoy it on -2 but I don't and I'm sure most don't either! The ball is like a balloon, the players can outrun it and it's like playing a game in slow motion!

Each to their own but I have played this game over and over and it's just not up to scratch. If it doesn't look like the demo gameplay is coming back via a patch then I'm selling it. I still play the demo sometimes just to depress myself and it's MILES better in multiplayer.

All those videos about 'Active AI' and it's been totally removed from the full game because people wanted every goalkeeper to be like petr cech.

Glad their dreams came true.

Delete the patch bruv, deleting it gets rid of the awful AI and central shooting.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

What central shooting? It seems exactly the same on both versions to me.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

What central shooting? It seems exactly the same on both versions to me.

I played a few games last night and no way is the shooting the same. Even the WENB guys are admitting the shooting is different so to accommodate the keepers.

I don't know where all this stuff about a lack of active AI has come from. Even on patch 1.01, the AI plays in basically the same way, just less openly leaving itself open on the break.

It's more to do with own players, the AI has been severly toned down, they no longer make runs, no longer look for the space. It's like playing Fifa where you need to make the players go on the runs by triggering them.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I don't find that at all. If I held up the ball and waited for an option to pass, I'd find it. I even nearly scored a rare counter last night with a 60 yard through pass, and a midfielder got onto the end of it.

I'm not saying anything's wrong with the pre-patch version, it's a fun playable game, but just not to my style. I'm feeling more player individuality from having a more brutal AI to contend with, and I swear the game plays, for me, at a more realistic pace. Pre-patch, I initially loved it, but got fed up with the game barely playing out in midfield. Both teams attack so much that midfield is almost bypassed at times. That doesn't feel realistic to me.

 

[priskinsprick]

Delete the patch bruv, deleting it gets rid of the awful AI and central shooting.

I have deleted the patch!

Maybe you're playing with better players than I am.

But all players should run and move...

I'm getting rid of the game anyway pal - gonna try and get a refund due to the game i played on demo wasnt the game i played on full release.

Just so hard trying to get into contact with Konami! Might have to mail it!

 

[pj_puttz]

Well from what i could see is that in your mind your never wrong!
Look at how you have described the game speed. Did i say that -2 'fixes' bugs or did i say -2 plays in my opinion the game at its most realstic so many of the things you have described as being arcadey will go and you can enjoy the game on those settings.

I don't know, maybe you where drunk or angry or something happen or you were plain determined to have an argument but to try and put words into my month in that i say putting the game on -2 fixes all it's bugs? REALLY? Are you ok? Maybe the gross misjudgement of what i said may speak volumes for your problems.

It seems you cant even read your own posts let alone mine. Allow me quote you and refresh your memory:

"The game speed changes all the mechanics in the game!"

That's right. ALL the mechanics in the game. Your own words. Are the faults I mentioned not part of the game "mechanics" in your opinion?

Your response reeks of immaturity. Why throw insults at me saying I have "problems", that I'm "angry" and most childish and insulting of all the "not trying to fuck you wife" comment? That is truly pathetic.

You posted something which was factually incorrect and I called you on it. Do you think because you have previously mentioned all the bugs in the game that makes it OK to subsequently go around spouting nonsense like "The game speed changes all the mechanics in the game!"?

It's actually pretty amusing because the insults you throw at me can be more adequately levelled at you. Angry, never wrong, putting words in your mouth and arrogant. Sound familiar?

Do you seriously think you are the only person who knows about things like the body balance stat, tactics and technique? You make so many assumptions about me it's laughable. You condescend me as if I've never played a football game before yet you call me arrogant?

You're so quick to leap to the defence of this game without even reading my points properly it's little wonder I think you have an agenda of some kind. Do you really think I'm some stupid kid who tries to dribble my players around the whole team or pays no attention to the stats and tactics? It suits you to make that assumption because then you can dismiss my comments as "angry" or even more insulting dismiss me as someone who has "problems".

This forum (and others) are full of complaints exactly like mine. These issues are part of PES 2012 whether you like it or not. OK maybe you dont outright deny them but you constantly play them down and claim they can be circumvented simply by adjusting the game speed.

You accuse me of wanting everyone else to hate the game yet I say nothing of the sort. It appears you almost take criticism of this game as a personal slight. WHY?

I love PES, always have and probably always will, but having paid my £40, played the game extensively and joined this forum I reserve the right to have my say about the game's faults. This is something you clearly struggle to deal with, which is strange considering how much time you spend in the "not happy with PES 2012" topic.

I also reseve the right to call BULLSHIT when someone says changing the game speed "changes all the mechanics in the game".

Is that alright with you boss? Or do you want to throw some more infantile insults at me to make yourself feel like a big man?

 

[Northzzz]

I just conceded such an annoying goal again. I can't accept responsibility at doing so because it was the clearly the game's mechanics fault. This game has problems with control when you accidentally knock into your own player. I've had it a couple of times today when i'm receiving a ball and another of my players brushes me and even though you don't appear to lose balance for a second or two you will lose control of the player you're selecting. Now it just happened and i conceded because of it. France put a long ball over the top, one of my defenders missed the clearing header (fair enough, he was inches away), Benzema lunges for a shot (what is with the cpu never taking a touch in the box?) and missed it so it fell into the path of Bouhlarouz who instead of clearing it, whilst i am hacking away at B to do so, controls the ball on his chest pushing it towards the goal about 10 yards from the line. Dangerous play considering the ball is now heading towards my goal but it's quite a way still so i can chase after it and clear it. Cue my goalkeeper running past the ball and brushing Bouhlarouz as he is running back so whilst not making him stumble it leaves him uncontrollable for a second or two and the ball trickles into the back of the net because i couldn't run for that necessary moment.

The reason i'm so annoyed is that game's are really good right up until something like this, or most of the other stuff i've mentioned recently, happens and then it just ruins the game. It just serves to frustrate the player and means that for all the good work that PES 2012 does it has far too much that can spoil a good game you have going.

 

[Northzzz]

I'm certain Super Cancel doesn't work on my game. I just went into training mode and tried every combination of the shoulder buttons and nothing works. By default it is LT + RT right? Well i switched manual pass mode to RB so i can jockey using LT. So if it's changed it should be RB + RT to do super cancel then right? Well it isn't, neither is it LT + RT.

 

[gomito#10]

I'm certain Super Cancel doesn't work on my game. I just went into training mode and tried every combination of the shoulder buttons and nothing works. By default it is LT + RT right? Well i switched manual pass mode to RB so i can jockey using LT. So if it's changed it should be RB + RT to do super cancel then right? Well it isn't, neither is it LT + RT.

what does jockey have to do with offensive controls? not following, leave manual on lb on offesne controls, and use rt and rb for super cancel, works like a charm

 

[Northzzz]

what does jockey have to do with offensive controls? not following, leave manual on lb on offesne controls, and use rt and rb for super cancel, works like a charm

Just checked. When you change the controls for defence, like i did, it automatically switches them for offence too. So it means that now LT is used for control/finesse shots rather than RB. I'm fine with that though. I checked again and super cancel doesn't work in any variation with my slight alteration. I just put it back to what it is default (rb for jockey, lt for manual control) and super cancel works fine.

What is it with this game and having to compromise for the sheer oddest of reasons. I want to use LT for jockeying because i feel that it is far more natural to do so but it means that super cancel does not work. Cool game Konami.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Okay so I played a good number of friendlies, all with patch installed, on Pro. Game felt balanced, skilled players could still strut their stuff but it was harder in the main without being 'too' hard if you know what I mean. All in all, I found my level, and a balanced game I enjoyed.

Excited to play it further, I embark on a competetive game mode for the first time. Controlling Germany, I did a European Championships tournament.

It was HORRIBLE. The game is changed YET AGAIN. It's not the same as in friendlies. Even skilled dribblers of the world class mould like Ozil could do nothing, the AI sat back, homed in on your players with laser precision and perfectly tackled you when you try and beat a man 100% of the time. If they were behind you, you'd get run off the ball by 2-3 players and knocked over. It made it impossible to do anything creative. I ended up having to get rid of the ball within seconds even by using the control method that had previously worked so well. Dither on the ball for longer than a second and you'd be hammered by a tackle. No fun whatsoever. None at all.

I think I played two campaigns, failed to get out of the group and scored two goals in two tournaments. Utter shite. Every game was the same. Have 70% of the ball, constantly fail in trying to break down 10 men in their penalty area, then get shafted by a through pass (I swear it's worse than last year), and that's it. Game over. Every time, a player will slalom through a couple of defenders despite anything you try and do, play a through pass, goal.

So there's the dilemma. Without the patch, the game is too open and arcadey, tons of sprinting and too much space. Keepers are imbeciles too.

Add the patch, it plays brilliant in friendly matches, but go into a competitive game mode and it's a farce, the tackling and closing down is ramped up by a vast amount. Lower the difficulty down to Regular and it's way too easy.

There's no happy medium, it's an extreme of one or the other, and I don't like either. PES2011 for me sits perfectly between these two patches in terms of balance and pace of game. Hate to say it but I just don't like this game. It veers between either being too easy or being impossibly difficult to the point of being no fun to play whatsoever.

Add to that the shit graphics, animation and audio, and I struggle to have any fun with this unless it's playing friendly matches where the AI balances out. Seeing as I bought the game to play game modes, the fact that they've totally swung the AI to some monstrous hulk-like tackling mentalists, and I can't be arsed. Konami f**ed this up big time. The fact that people are debating which 'version' they prefer best is testament to that.

 

[Jamezinho]

I totally understand and agree with your frustrations, LT. I've been a big supporter of PES over the years - often blindly when I should have been more critical - so it pains me to say it; the PES series is in a real bad way. It's just a mess of bodges and sticking plasters over an ageing and obsolete engine that Konami seem desperate to get a few more miles out of.

As I said in the other thread, I've picked up Fifa 12 and have put three or fours hours into it today. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with it. Actually, more than that, I'm really enjoying the game. It's an all-round solid and impressive product, especially in the gameplay department which has never been the case before for me. The sliders are really effective and have already helped overcome a number of issues I normally have with Fifa. I can fine-tune the offline experience to my liking.

I never thought I'd say this but Fifa 12 has that 'one more game' factor synonymous of classic PES. I've had many cracking games against the AI, nearly always eventful and entertaining, with a surprising level of player individuality on display, which is, again, PES's historical forté. This coupled to a stunning animation and collision engine, crisp graphics, excellent commentary and audio, and a depth of teams and content, and I'm left feeling fairly nonplussed about PES.

Really I should be worried for PES as my reasons for sticking with the series are either gradually slipping away or being bettered by the competition. I'm actually quite angry with Konami in reality. The warning shot was fired across their bow back in 2007 when EA released Fifa 08. That game was the start of the new generation of football games and, while far from perfect, it demonstrated how the genre should look, feel and play on this generation of consoles. Rather than learn from the competition Konami continued with an old engine that is clearly not up to the task any more.

I'm kind of fed up of supporting Konami really. We hear all this stuff about PES2011/12 having two year development cycles but in reality I've seen precious little evidence of that. PES2012 is simply last years game with a worse passing system, worse graphics, and AI that, while impressive, is massively unbalanced (read scripted).

Sorry for the rant but I have to vent. I had grand visions of what Seabass could do with the current tech back when I was playing PES5 in 2005. He always talked of having so many ideas that he wanted to implement but was shackled by the PS2.

In reality he's done precisely fuck all with the series.

 

[leandropuc86]

Okay so I played a good number of friendlies, all with patch installed, on Pro. Game felt balanced, skilled players could still strut their stuff but it was harder in the main without being 'too' hard if you know what I mean. All in all, I found my level, and a balanced game I enjoyed.

Excited to play it further, I embark on a competetive game mode for the first time. Controlling Germany, I did a European Championships tournament.

It was HORRIBLE. The game is changed YET AGAIN. It's not the same as in friendlies. Even skilled dribblers of the world class mould like Ozil could do nothing, the AI sat back, homed in on your players with laser precision and perfectly tackled you when you try and beat a man 100% of the time. If they were behind you, you'd get run off the ball by 2-3 players and knocked over. It made it impossible to do anything creative. I ended up having to get rid of the ball within seconds even by using the control method that had previously worked so well. Dither on the ball for longer than a second and you'd be hammered by a tackle. No fun whatsoever. None at all.

I think I played two campaigns, failed to get out of the group and scored two goals in two tournaments. Utter shite. Every game was the same. Have 70% of the ball, constantly fail in trying to break down 10 men in their penalty area, then get shafted by a through pass (I swear it's worse than last year), and that's it. Game over. Every time, a player will slalom through a couple of defenders despite anything you try and do, play a through pass, goal.

So there's the dilemma. Without the patch, the game is too open and arcadey, tons of sprinting and too much space. Keepers are imbeciles too.

Add the patch, it plays brilliant in friendly matches, but go into a competitive game mode and it's a farce, the tackling and closing down is ramped up by a vast amount. Lower the difficulty down to Regular and it's way too easy.

There's no happy medium, it's an extreme of one or the other, and I don't like either. PES2011 for me sits perfectly between these two patches in terms of balance and pace of game. Hate to say it but I just don't like this game. It veers between either being too easy or being impossibly difficult to the point of being no fun to play whatsoever.

Add to that the shit graphics, animation and audio, and I struggle to have any fun with this unless it's playing friendly matches where the AI balances out. Seeing as I bought the game to play game modes, the fact that they've totally swung the AI to some monstrous hulk-like tackling mentalists, and I can't be arsed. Konami f**ed this up big time. The fact that people are debating which 'version' they prefer best is testament to that.

Like I always say, on Football Life, attacking is an art and scoring is so hard because of bad teammate AI and extremely defensive CPU AI. It's nearly impossible to dribble, feels like the defenders always anticipate your directions.

Guess PES is like a girlfriend. When she's not being a pain in the arse, we love it.

 

[leandropuc86]

In reality he's done precisely fuck all with the series.

Pretty much sums up my feeling about it. FIFA CPU AI is far from being perfect and I won nearly 80% of my games at World Class level (Legendary feels like PES 2012 on Top Player, aka rubbish).

I've always preferred PES because the subtleties in it's gameplay. Even if it's net physics, some shooting animation, dribbling, and of course, at least decent gameplay. On PES 5 and 6 it was state-of-the-art.

It all started going downhill on PES 2007. PES 2011 was an improvement and PES 2012 is an improvement in some aspects. Ball physics are better, it feels smoothier and less sluggish. More stadium editing features, better ML and BAL modes = better single player experience, which I think is FIFA's main fault.

It's not immersive, at least it wasnt on FIFA 11. But there's some stuff that is really unnacceptable in PES:

1 - Player passes are stronger than their shots
2 - All shots tend to go near the middle, even when I'm aiming diagonally
3 - It's either too hard or too easy and that's a gamebreaker - people will say one has to improve in other to play in the harder levels, but that's bull because the CPU cheats
4 - Relationship with players on the Football Life mode is rubbish. Guy asks "why he's not being played" and then you get always the same three options. I would like to tell him he's shit. If you're going to implement a feature, make sure it's not rubbish
5 - Player animations feel worse than on PS2. Actually, some of them miss so many frames I feel ISS on SNES does a job just as good (or as bad)

That sums it up. But I'll still play it. Football Life is immersive and I still dont have money for BF3 or Dark Souls.

 

[Jamezinho]

I skipped FIFA 11 as I thought it was shit. I wasn't that sold on FIFA 10 either. FIFA 08 and 09 I really enjoyed though, and this year's game feels more along those lines. The sliders definitely help to fine tune the game to my tastes. Normally I'm anti-sliders as in an ideal world I like the idea of everyone essentially playing the same game, but as I play mainly offline it doesn't really matter.

The thing is, PES at it's absolute best still can't be beaten. My problem is those magic moments and experiences seem to be few and far between these days and I have to go through so much crap to get them. The game is more of a chore to me now. A lot of the old school fun has been sapped out of the PES series in the last few years.

That's what it's all about for me - fun - not pissing about trying to decide which patch version is the best nor feeling consistently cheated by the CPU in every match, nor having to apply every file individually in a 500 piece option file on the PS3.

With Fifa 12 I'm finding it simple, straightforward fun. I can knock the ball around, create some nice plays and score some great goals, all the time the game looks smooth and realistic with very believable, consistent ball physics.

That's all I want from a football game.

 

[leandropuc86]

I wish 2K Sports would make a football game. If I had something as good to play as NBA 2K12 or Top Spin 4, it would be so nice. Or if EA put the same effort on FIFA as they do with Madden...

 

[gomito#10]

Hhahhah girlfriend comparisons and 2k shout outs on the same page,
Knew this was coming.....

 

[Jamezinho]

I wish 2K Sports would make a football game. If I had something as good to play as NBA 2K12 or Top Spin 4, it would be so nice. Or if EA put the same effort on FIFA as they do with Madden...

I think everyone wishes 2K Sports would enter the football market, or any developer for that matter, just to give consumers more choice and developers more competition. The fact that all the major licenses are tied up between EA and Konami is probably a massive barrier to entry for any new football game.

2K would have to start much like ISS did all those years ago with a game based on national teams and forget the club football. Even then licences could be an issue.

Unfortunately I don't think there is much of an appetite among gamers for unlicensed sports games any more. Just look at the recent American football game Backbreaker which was a flop. Even PES is struggling - in the UK at least - due in part to the lack of Premier League licensing.

Also, I wouldn't say EA has done a stellar job with Madden. That game is not great but not forced to improve due to lack of competition.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I totally understand and agree with your frustrations, LT. I've been a big supporter of PES over the years - often blindly when I should have been more critical - so it pains me to say it; the PES series is in a real bad way. It's just a mess of bodges and sticking plasters over an ageing and obsolete engine that Konami seem desperate to get a few more miles out of.

As I said in the other thread, I've picked up Fifa 12 and have put three or fours hours into it today. I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised with it. Actually, more than that, I'm really enjoying the game. It's an all-round solid and impressive product, especially in the gameplay department which has never been the case before for me. The sliders are really effective and have already helped overcome a number of issues I normally have with Fifa. I can fine-tune the offline experience to my liking.

I never thought I'd say this but Fifa 12 has that 'one more game' factor synonymous of classic PES. I've had many cracking games against the AI, nearly always eventful and entertaining, with a surprising level of player individuality on display, which is, again, PES's historical forté. This coupled to a stunning animation and collision engine, crisp graphics, excellent commentary and audio, and a depth of teams and content, and I'm left feeling fairly nonplussed about PES.

Really I should be worried for PES as my reasons for sticking with the series are either gradually slipping away or being bettered by the competition. I'm actually quite angry with Konami in reality. The warning shot was fired across their bow back in 2007 when EA released Fifa 08. That game was the start of the new generation of football games and, while far from perfect, it demonstrated how the genre should look, feel and play on this generation of consoles. Rather than learn from the competition Konami continued with an old engine that is clearly not up to the task any more.

I'm kind of fed up of supporting Konami really. We hear all this stuff about PES2011/12 having two year development cycles but in reality I've seen precious little evidence of that. PES2012 is simply last years game with a worse passing system, worse graphics, and AI that, while impressive, is massively unbalanced (read scripted).

Sorry for the rant but I have to vent. I had grand visions of what Seabass could do with the current tech back when I was playing PES5 in 2005. He always talked of having so many ideas that he wanted to implement but was shackled by the PS2.

In reality he's done precisely fuck all with the series.

Couldn't agree more to be honest. I remember Seabass banging on about being shackled by the PS2 tech too, and he has done fuck all with what's available to him.

The one exception to that rule for me was PES2011, that at last marked a huge forward leap over the previous titles. I had great fun learning how to play it, thanks to next to no tutorials I had to rely on this site and experimentation to learn the game's hidden controls and mechanics etc but underneath was a brilliant game. I loved playing ML on 2011.

But this year's game feels like it's sapped all the fun out of it. I too have massive issues with the passing, massive issues with a huge number of things.

I tried playing again just now and it's so hard, but despite owning this game since release day I still get the AI soaking up 89 minutes of pressure then scoring a goal from a through ball or cross, only to see the AI skip over a couple of challenges and score. Every time. I never, ever get to skip over challenges like the AI does. It feels so scripted beyond a joke.

But my main problem, like I said before, is the difficulty. It's totally unbalanced. One level is far too easy, the next level up is virtually impossible to do anything creative.

So with the exception of last night, which was awesome for some unexplained reason, every game is dull as dishwater. I can't do anything skilfull or creative beyond passing, passing, shoot. I can't even beat players for pace with Theo Walcott in this game because they still manage to catch him up despite triple tapping R1 or using speed burst. Then comes the stumble animation.....

For me FIFA12 wins hands down this year. It's up to date, relevant, the gameplay is balanced and tweakable. Anyone saying the AI doesn't play realistically either hasn't played it or is being blinkered about it. I played a game v Barcelona on PES and FIFA, on PES yet again, as ever, I had 60% of the ball, failed to break them down, they scored on the counter as ever. On FIFA, they kept the ball supremely well, had over 60% of the play themselves, and beat me with several varied goals.

What really pisses me off is the backwards step from last year. I still love PES2011 and might still play it this year to be honest, I like it that much. It's far more balanced, I still find more individuality in last year's game, and it's downright prettier on the eyes by far.

I think the fact that Konami changed direction with 2011 in such a positive way, then instead of tweaking that same game, completely changed it around again, shows they don't have a fucking clue. There's elements of genius there still, but it's so random nowawdays that you'll either get the sublime or the frustrating.

All they needed to do with 2012 was make players a fraction more responsive, remove auto catch up, make the ball physics a bit more 'weightier' and more bouncy/bobbly, improve the graphics' lighting, overhaul player animation, and perhaps program the AI to be a bit bolder in it's attacking approach. That's it. A fair amount of stuff, but doable with such a solid base. Instead we have a sped up game that boasts intelligent AI that basically wins by randomly deciding to skate through your team or play the same through ball over and over. The ball physics are weird to me, the ball glides in an odd way that often moves too fast, players seem really awkward in this new game with their contextual animations, it's just not as good IMO.

I'm not having much fun with this to be honest. When there is an absolute raft of quality games coming out right now - FIFA12, Arkham City, Battlefield 3, Forza 4, Unchartered 3, Bioshock Infinite, there are so many games more deserving of my time, and all have improved on earlier iterations of that game. Can't say the same about PES.

I played every game out there from the ISS games on SNES through to PES on PS1 and PS2. Almost every title. I then abandoned the series with PES2008, and PES2011 finally won me back big time. Almost as soon as I feel PES is back, it again feels like it's gone the other way again. Which sucks, because when PES gets it right, there's nothing EA and FIFA can do to match it.

But this year's game is a chore so far, and I initially brushed it off as a learning curve. But that curve isn't bearing out. I can't see any way to stop the AI from being so brutal without removing the patch and then seeing an arcade sprint fest with abject keepers.

Sigh

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I skipped FIFA 11 as I thought it was shit. I wasn't that sold on FIFA 10 either. FIFA 08 and 09 I really enjoyed though, and this year's game feels more along those lines. The sliders definitely help to fine tune the game to my tastes. Normally I'm anti-sliders as in an ideal world I like the idea of everyone essentially playing the same game, but as I play mainly offline it doesn't really matter.

The thing is, PES at it's absolute best still can't be beaten. My problem is those magic moments and experiences seem to be few and far between these days and I have to go through so much crap to get them. The game is more of a chore to me now. A lot of the old school fun has been sapped out of the PES series in the last few years.

That's what it's all about for me - fun - not pissing about trying to decide which patch version is the best nor feeling consistently cheated by the CPU in every match, nor having to apply every file individually in a 500 piece option file on the PS3.

With Fifa 12 I'm finding it simple, straightforward fun. I can knock the ball around, create some nice plays and score some great goals, all the time the game looks smooth and realistic with very believable, consistent ball physics.

That's all I want from a football game.

Again, I totally agree. I tried FIFA11 and sold it because I thought it was awful, but the difference is that while PES seems to have made 'changes' they're not entirely for the better in my opinion. It's not a refined version of 2011, but a totally different game, more of a sideways move that simply plays differently.

On the other hand, the FIFA forum on here is remarkably quiet mainly due to the fact that people are enjoying the game and simply getting on and playing it. That's because, out of the blue for me to be honest, EA have made massive strides with the game this year, and it's by far the best FIFA game ever to be released. By far.

And for all the discussions on here about player individuality in the past, I find it ironic that the game labelled an 'arcade' game, for me, is beginning to rival PES in those stakes. All that needs sorting is for EA to concentrate on control, and they're almost there. With pass error set a bit higher, I can now make a 40 yard pass with Xavi perfectly, but try it with a lesser player and it'll go miles wide of the intended target. Can't say that about the passing in PES this year.

 

[Rooney10]

Very much how I feel but I sold pes12 right after buying it. I preordered but didn't remove seal because of the terrible reviews and opinions not just here.

Pes2008 made me continue playing pes6, same thing till pes2011 finally brought me back only to see them take a tremendous step backwards again. My question is why didn't they build on the 2011 engine?! It was not broken at all. They just had to fix various things. 2012 has so many complaints that really didn't surface much in 2011.

FIFA is amazing this year, my first FIFA since the early 2000s.

Guess we wasted our time harboring hopes after hopes on the discussion thread throughout the year. Even the playtests opinion differed so much from the actual game. Terrible, might not stick in the discussion thread for 2013 after the terrible disappointment from konami this year.

 

[itsame]

jeez people can whinge, the game is fine even on 1.01 learn to fucking play

 

[jaboy]

I sold pes12 right after buying it. I preordered but didn't remove seal because of the terrible reviews and opinions not just here.

So you're thrashing a game you haven't even played? I don't get it - why are you now on a pes2012 discussion forum? People are weird.

I must say I had an amazing series of online games last night on PS3 - definitely due to a different class of opponent at 4am. More 'mature'?

Yes, still lots of annoyances with PES, but like previous years they get assimilated into your style the more you play the game.

Jon Murphy seems on-side re: Online pass assistance lobbies, so I'm keeping positive...human opponents provide far more interesting games.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

jeez people can whinge, the game is fine even on 1.01 learn to fucking play

Wow look at you giving it the Billy big bollocks. Bravo.

 

[Jamezinho]

Wow look at you giving it the Billy big bollocks. Bravo.

Yeah there's always one. It's never the game's fault, the player has to change to suit the game's quirks.

I'm such a noob to this series.

 

[Lons]

Guys i understand Pes 2012 have some bad things but for God sake it's much better than Pes 2011. What a stupid AI was in Pes 2011. In Pes 2012 you have much better controls of players like in old Pes on Ps2. Of course Ronaldo, Messi have to strong stats but another players stats look decent. O assist make game relly good. I can't undestand people what they want? Less control like in Pes 2011? It's anty Pes of style. Stupid physics ball like in Pes 2011? Stupid AI when players stop and looking around? Ridiculous fast power bar? C'mon Pes 2012 is close to Ps2 in many spects games than Pes 2011. God Sake.

 

[Northzzz]

Couldn't agree more to be honest. I remember Seabass banging on about being shackled by the PS2 tech too, and he has done fuck all with what's available to him.

The one exception to that rule for me was PES2011, that at last marked a huge forward leap over the previous titles. I had great fun learning how to play it, thanks to next to no tutorials I had to rely on this site and experimentation to learn the game's hidden controls and mechanics etc but underneath was a brilliant game. I loved playing ML on 2011.

But this year's game feels like it's sapped all the fun out of it. I too have massive issues with the passing, massive issues with a huge number of things.

I tried playing again just now and it's so hard, but despite owning this game since release day I still get the AI soaking up 89 minutes of pressure then scoring a goal from a through ball or cross, only to see the AI skip over a couple of challenges and score. Every time. I never, ever get to skip over challenges like the AI does. It feels so scripted beyond a joke.

But my main problem, like I said before, is the difficulty. It's totally unbalanced. One level is far too easy, the next level up is virtually impossible to do anything creative.

So with the exception of last night, which was awesome for some unexplained reason, every game is dull as dishwater. I can't do anything skilfull or creative beyond passing, passing, shoot. I can't even beat players for pace with Theo Walcott in this game because they still manage to catch him up despite triple tapping R1 or using speed burst. Then comes the stumble animation.....

For me FIFA12 wins hands down this year. It's up to date, relevant, the gameplay is balanced and tweakable. Anyone saying the AI doesn't play realistically either hasn't played it or is being blinkered about it. I played a game v Barcelona on PES and FIFA, on PES yet again, as ever, I had 60% of the ball, failed to break them down, they scored on the counter as ever. On FIFA, they kept the ball supremely well, had over 60% of the play themselves, and beat me with several varied goals.

What really pisses me off is the backwards step from last year. I still love PES2011 and might still play it this year to be honest, I like it that much. It's far more balanced, I still find more individuality in last year's game, and it's downright prettier on the eyes by far.

I think the fact that Konami changed direction with 2011 in such a positive way, then instead of tweaking that same game, completely changed it around again, shows they don't have a fucking clue. There's elements of genius there still, but it's so random nowawdays that you'll either get the sublime or the frustrating.

All they needed to do with 2012 was make players a fraction more responsive, remove auto catch up, make the ball physics a bit more 'weightier' and more bouncy/bobbly, improve the graphics' lighting, overhaul player animation, and perhaps program the AI to be a bit bolder in it's attacking approach. That's it. A fair amount of stuff, but doable with such a solid base. Instead we have a sped up game that boasts intelligent AI that basically wins by randomly deciding to skate through your team or play the same through ball over and over. The ball physics are weird to me, the ball glides in an odd way that often moves too fast, players seem really awkward in this new game with their contextual animations, it's just not as good IMO.

I'm not having much fun with this to be honest. When there is an absolute raft of quality games coming out right now - FIFA12, Arkham City, Battlefield 3, Forza 4, Unchartered 3, Bioshock Infinite, there are so many games more deserving of my time, and all have improved on earlier iterations of that game. Can't say the same about PES.

I played every game out there from the ISS games on SNES through to PES on PS1 and PS2. Almost every title. I then abandoned the series with PES2008, and PES2011 finally won me back big time. Almost as soon as I feel PES is back, it again feels like it's gone the other way again. Which sucks, because when PES gets it right, there's nothing EA and FIFA can do to match it.

But this year's game is a chore so far, and I initially brushed it off as a learning curve. But that curve isn't bearing out. I can't see any way to stop the AI from being so brutal without removing the patch and then seeing an arcade sprint fest with abject keepers.

Sigh

Great post. I think that one sentence in bold can sum up this thread.

I don't know about the whole FIFA 12 thing though. It frustrates me too much that the game is so balanced in favoured of attacking much more than defending. Because of the way that the mechanics of dribbling work i found it far too easy to receive the ball and dribble easily and precisely in or around the box whilst the defence seems to get nowhere near you because you can turn in such small spaces with the ball (in fact it happens to both me and the cpu when we attack). I've tried playing with sliders but they simply don't work with my issue there at all because it's not about slowing down the game, it's a need for more error when turning and dribbling. I think PES favours attack over defence too (one of the reason that in 15 minute matches i constantly see 4-4 scores) but Fifa is much worse at doing it IMO.

Fifa 2008 and PES 5 had such a great balance in favour of defending compared to attacking. I'm not sure why no PES or Fifa game since has come close to the kind of balance we saw in those games. PES 2011 might have done had it not have had huge switching issues which could destroy defending at times.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

jeez people can whinge, the game is fine even on 1.01 learn to fucking play

It is fine, but we dont want fine we want amazing.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Guys i understand Pes 2012 have some bad things but for God sake it's much better than Pes 2011. What a stupid AI was in Pes 2011. In Pes 2012 you have much better controls of players like in old Pes on Ps2. Of course Ronaldo, Messi have to strong stats but another players stats look decent. O assist make game relly good. I can't undestand people what they want? Less control like in Pes 2011? It's anty Pes of style. Stupid physics ball like in Pes 2011? Stupid AI when players stop and looking around? Ridiculous fast power bar? C'mon Pes 2012 is close to Ps2 in many spects games than Pes 2011. God Sake.

Some of those reasons are the exact problem I have with the game. I don't want players to feel as twitchy and responsive as in the PS2 days. Games have moved on since then. It's not realistic. PES2011 had the perfect balance, and a more noticeable difference between players IMO. It played at a more realistic pace.

The AI wasn't amazing on 2011 but on Top Player it still presented a decent challenge, a little scripted at times but nothing like the kind of bullshit I've been seeing in 2012. AI goals scored aren't even realistic. They're never from a period of pressure, of keeping the ball, because the AI still can't keep possession for long enough. Oddly FIFA had this problem but now it's vastly superior at being patient with the ball and keeping it from you. That's a massive leap EA's game has made this year.

PES' goals, however, almost always from from break aways, sprinting counter attacks with a player randomly able to carry the ball past numerous challenges, and that through pass move. Over and over again.

But there are so many frustrations that carry over from game to game and never get fixed.

For years I complain that you don't have full control over the keepers when they have the ball in their hands. You can 'sort of' throw it out to your defenders, but it's still slightly automated. You can't change the direction of kicks properly, and the game automatically makes him kick it to no-one after a short period of time and before your team have re-grouped further up the pitch. FIFA has offered full keeper control when he has the ball for years, why can't Konami just add that? It really bugs me out. I mean it took up until about two years ago for you do be able to move players around when taking a throw in. Konami take years longer to catch onto things than they should these days.

It feels like Konami scrapped their plans started with PES2011 and opted for a more 'PES6' type game due to caving from fan pressure. And that aspect to the game is what feels most dated for me. I think they're also trying to cater for the FIFA crowd too, it's no coincidence that the new camera angle for this year is pitch side cam, basically tele cam from FIFA. And it's particularly ironic given how much FIFA has swung the other way this year. It's far more 'sim' orientated than in previous years.