The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

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Really sorry to go off topic completely, but I have a question about PES2011 that maybe someone could answer? The 2011 thread is dead in the water now....

Anyways, I randomly came across a video of PES2011 on broadcast cam, PS3 version, with him saying he hadn't done anything to the camera by the way of editors etc, and that this was the default camera angle. It's played in the Bristol Mary Stadium (or the name to that effect), but when I went and tried the game in broadcast and in that stadium the camera is massively lower and zoomed in like broadcast usually is.

The reason I'm asking is that I still play PES2011 and the camera angle in this video looks awesome, but I have no idea how the game is being played like this as it's not possible.....

Any ideas?

YouTube - pes 2011 broadcast cam.wmv
 
That looks pretty good actually. Now that I have stopped playing FIFA12 I might go and dust of the PES2011 disc.
 
there is a camera tool available for pc.

in pes 2012 i imported pes 2010 broadcast for example. it made me like the game a lot more.
 
I fine the broadcast camera completely unpractical to play with.

To add some criticism, the replay feature is actually pretty shit. I'm not sure why you can't watch replays in actual game speed or with the camera i actually use in-game. I wanted to record some goals i saved but that's not happening.
 
Have we become too greedy and demanding in our search for the perfect football sim?

Or have developers become too lazy and profit hungry to care about what we want?

I know which side I'm standing on. PES 2012 is living proof IMO.
 
There's a camera tool for consoles too but you have to jailbreak your console, something I'm not prepared to do. But this guy in the video is playing on PS3 and claims its just the game's default view on broadcast, when it's actually miles better than the view broadcast actually gives you. Why Konami can't offer this view as standard is beyond me, I think the game looks fantastic in this view.

It's just really bugging me how the game is showing this zoomed out TV style broadcast camera when it isn't in the game. I presume the video guy is lying and he has actually used a camera editor tool. In fact there are other videos of PES2011 and 2012 using similar zoomed out cameras and it looks stunning. Can't some bright spark at Konami see this and recommend the include it as a selectable camera view?

Anyways, like I said, unless the guy who did the video is lying, then this is baffling me because I'd love to play PES 2011 using this view.
 
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i don't think he's lying. probably some visual effect due to poor recording and usual youtube weird formatting. u can't see the scoreboard completely, ergo it is clear that u can't really judge it. pes 2010 broadcast was the shit! still what sport game does not feature custom cameras?

problem being japanese dev probably have no idea about the state of the art of gaming. the are isolated in their own world, used to be the most advanced one, now they lag years behind western developers.

wake up konami.
 
That's true, I tried broadcast on PES2010 and indeed it looked wonderful, the camera was exactly right to make it look like a TV broadcast, so why they then decided to zoom it right in and then lower the camera is frankly, insane. Who made the very deliberate decision to change the camera for the worse and then remove the previous camera that proved quite popular from 2010?

In a similar vein, like Jamezinho says, who decided in 2011 to change the replay angles so that they're virtually unwatchable? In fact, who decided that, then decided to keep them the same in 2012 despite everyone universally slating the new replay function. You'd kind of forgive such an error were it not for the fact that they purposefully changed these things despite already having far superior versions in older games then deliberately making them worse under the understanding that people wanted them changed in the first place?

Konami are utterly, completely bizarre.
 
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Just thought I'd let y'all know that I haven't touched this unfinished unloved piece of cack for a few months now.

Why didnt they just release the demo? Cack goalies are sound!

FFS Football games are dead!
 
im trying to play the game but players are drunk weird things are happening players are throwing themselves all over the pitch goals are scored like circus acts im trying to hold myself not to ralk like this but i can't help it anymore wtf happened to the gameplay
 
romagnoli said:
Jamez - You won't find me arguing that the sound is decent, let alone good. I prefer the reaction to goals in PES, but otherwise it's a clean sweep in EA's favour.

Best football game for sound was WC2010. No-brainer. Even if you hate vuvuzelas, the sound was frighteningly convincing at times, simply cos they could use genuine audio samples, rather than faking it.
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That in bold - it's the one thing regards sound they get right. Not so much the sound/commentary itself, but the reaction and timing.

I would tend to agree with you regards WC2010 being the best in this generation of football games. I have fond memories of ISS Pro 98 and how that game had a nice diverse mix of instrumental flavour added to crowd atmosphere. I always remember Saudi Arabia having that mad instrument playing in the crowd or the Netherlands having their band playing. It was obviously crude by today's standards, but it worked. Man, I would love PES to have a classic match mode that is similar to NBA2K12's ''greatest'' feature, where the look and presentation mirrors the era in question. imagine being able to play Brazil v. Italy in a 1982 presentation stylee that captures perfectly the broadcast look and sound from that match.

Been playing a ton of NBA2K12 the past week and there is so much to be learned from that game beyond the obvious technical assets. The sound in that game is frankly astonishing, both in terms of crowd atmosphere/reaction and commentary. For all that EA have made progress with their commentary it is still miles behind what 2K achieve with their game.

It borders on voodoo how the crowd react to everything and along with it, how the atmosphere reaches fever pitch in the final minutes of a close game, or how a home crowd go awfully quiet if their team is being subject to a severe beating. Even their reaction to free-throws, blocks or turnovers seems dynamic to how the game is poised.

The commentary really steals the show however. They have a three man game commentary team, a ''presenter'' and even a court-side reporter who relays back what she has heard the coaches say during the game along with commenting on what they said in pre-game interviews. The game commentary is seemless and at least gives the impression of being limitless. They started talking at length about corporate sponsorship potentially appearing on jerseys in one game, only for me to score a sprite-cam worthy dunk in which they gave out a collective ''Wow!'' talking about the dunk itself, the player who scored it and how rare it was for him to do so, before going back to discussing sponsorship.

Obviously, with the NBA consisting of only 30 teams, the developers can probably have more scope regards detailed, natural sounding commentary but even if PES' commentary for CL games (they really should do something similar to NBA2k12's NBA Today with CL)could do something similar it would be welcome.

I'm going to be posting a fairly comprehensive breakdown of how 2K sports efforts with the NBA2K should be taken note of in the next week or so. Like I say, it is more than just technical solutions Konami should be taking note of from these games. Oddly, I think PES is closer to NBA2K12 in some areas than FIFA is to the point you would swear Konami have taken some inspiration from what 2K do. Here's hoping if that is the case they look to take further inspiration in future.
 
Just had another look and I am sure its the same. Are you playing on the PS3 as well? I dont think the 360 camera would be different but its Konami so....
 
To be honest Alan, I've been playing the NBA2K games since 2K7, the same year the first next-gen PES was released (PES6 on the 360), and it's a major factor towards why I've been so disappointed with PES since then. Even 2K7 was light years ahead of what PES (and Fifa) were doing at the time. Graphics, animations, individuality, audio, commentary, presentation, modes.....the game has always had the lot and it just gets better and more refined each year.

The NBA2K series has helped me through a tough generation of football games, providing that old-school PES feeling but in a basketball game, something you alluded to in your recent article. I know others feel the same way due to neither football game offering what they are looking for.

I don't know if NBA2K12 is your first serious foray into the franchise (and I guess it is due to how much you've talked about it of late) but better late than never. It's a real eye-opener, and has made me less readily accept what Konami and EA serve up each year.
 
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Jamezinho said:
To be honest Alan, I've been playing the NBA2K games since 2K7, the same year the first next-gen PES was released (PES6 on the 360), and it's a major factor towards why I've been so disappointed with PES since then. Even 2K7 was light years ahead of what PES (and Fifa) were doing at the time. Graphics, animations, individuality, audio, commentary, presentation, modes.....the game has always had the lot and it just gets better and more refined each year.

The NBA2K series has helped me through a tough generation of football games, providing that old-school PES feeling but in a basketball game, something you alluded to in your recent article. I know others feel the same way due to neither football game offering what they are looking for.

I don't know if NBA2K12 is your first serious foray into the franchise (and I guess it is due to how much you've talked about it of late) but better late than never. It's a real eye-opener, and has made me less readily accept what Konami and EA serve up each year.
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Dont you get tired of scoring 50 goals a game? Usually when i fire up the demo of NBA games i like them until around my 8th basket goes in...

NHL by EA is far more interesting as your not constantly scoring and niether is the CPU, the presentation in the NHL games is top class as well and like NBA makes PES look archaic.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Dont you get tired of scoring 50 goals a game? Usually when i fire up the demo of NBA games i like them until around my 8th basket goes in...

NHL by EA is far more interesting as your not constantly scoring and niether is the CPU, the presentation in the NHL games is top class as well and like NBA makes PES look archaic.
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Well it's all down to personal opinion in the end. If you don't like basketball fair enough, but feelings about the sport aside, NBA2K games are better than any football game of this generation in every area. Anyone that plays it should at the very least be able to appreciate that, even if they don't like the sport.

Personally I appreciate different sports for what they are and don't compare them to football. If anything, football these days is getting very dull and predictable, so I quite appreciate high-scoring, end-to-end sports like basketball.

Basketball is high scoring but is also highly tactical, every bit as much as football. NBA2K games reflect this very well. The NBA is also full of characters and superstar players that can single-handedly win games for their team, and again the game really highlights this aspect. The control system in NBA2K is also much more in-depth than any football game, so it's not a case of just running back and forth and scoring every single attack. You need to learn advanced moves to both defend, and outwit the defence. It's a very deep and tactical game.
 
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Jamezinho said:
Well it's all down to personal opinion in the end. If you don't like basketball fair enough, but feelings about the sport aside, NBA2K games are better than any football game of this generation in every area. Anyone that plays it should at the very least be able to appreciate that, even if they don't like the sport.
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It's not that i dont like basketball i dont mind it at all maybe if it wasnt constant end to end and constant scoring i'd love it like football or even if games finished 20-18 or around those scores i'd like it better, i did own NBA2k10 i think it was and every game finished with both teams scoring over 80 points at the very least which is great if your bored of scoring 2 or 3 in football but not so great if you prefer games that are low scoring.

I see you support an American football team so i guess you like American sports in general which will obviously help much more with video games than those who dont like their American sports.
 
There is just so much more to do in a footie game. Basketball is end to end to end all the time. Quite boring for me. Aside from that the players are in such a confined space. All done to personal taste in the end but I much prefer the pitcher batter confrontation in a baseball video game to anything but AF. But even baseball gets boring fairly quickly for me.

As far as PES and all this new engine talk goes after popping in 2008 and playing 2011 after that I have come to the realization that 2011 IS the new engine for this gen. Not holding my breath that Konami even comes out of this thing alive. I hope 2K brings out a footie game.

FWIW I can't even watch an American Football game anymore. I love baseball on TV. Golf too but so far as video games go nothing can compare to a game of soccer/footie.
 
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lancers said:
There is just so much more to do in a footie game. Basketball is end to end to end all the time. Quite boring for me. Aside from that the players are in such a confined space. All done to personal taste in the end but I much prefer the pitcher batter confrontation in a baseball video game to anything but AF. But even baseball gets boring fairly quickly for me.

As far as PES and all this new engine talk goes after popping in 2008 and playing 2011 after that I have come to the realization that 2011 IS the new engine for this gen. Not holding my breath that Konami even comes out of this thing alive. I hope 2K brings out a footie game.

FWIW I can't even watch an American Football game anymore. I love baseball on TV. Golf too but so far as video games go nothing can compare to a game of soccer/footie.
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I like that in bold and that's what I think too.
If they made 2011 based on a new engine and that engine still have PS2 DNA that shouldnt exist in PS3 game engines.
By the way they were working on PES2011 engine (2 years before-since 2009) and it failed in 2012 :FAIL:
so what will be the result when they make a new engine in just 1 year ?!OR it will be the same old engine but will a little improvement and if that happened it will be sure the end of the series for me
 
I'd hope most people here have the common sense to realise that nowadays new engines aren't created in 1 year, and that most development studios have separate departments for gameplay and R&D - whether that R&D area creates their own tech or gets licenses for 3rd party engines.
 
romagnoli said:
I'd hope most people here have the common sense to realise that nowadays new engines aren't created in 1 year, and that most development studios have separate departments for gameplay and R&D - whether that R&D area creates their own tech or gets licenses for 3rd party engines.
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You obviously have more contact with these guys than most. Do they think the product they have released on this gen machines is the least bit acceptable? For all its faults I think EA are miles ahead. With just a few years at most of life left on this gen do you hold out hope the game will look and sound better than what they are producing currently? I don't.
 
lancers said:
You obviously have more contact with these guys than most. Do they think the product they have released on this gen machines is the least bit acceptable? For all its faults I think EA are miles ahead. With just a few years at most of life left on this gen do you hold out hope the game will look and sound better than what they are producing currently? I don't.
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Seabass this year has repeatedly said that PES is better than Fifa and going by the sales in Japan they agree but as we know the western gaming world and the Japanese gaming world are miles apart these days.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Dont you get tired of scoring 50 goals a game? Usually when i fire up the demo of NBA games i like them until around my 8th basket goes in...

NHL by EA is far more interesting as your not constantly scoring and niether is the CPU, the presentation in the NHL games is top class as well and like NBA makes PES look archaic.
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The NHL games are basically Fifa though but in Ice Hockey form. I'm not saying that either copies one another (knowing that it's been of speculation before to suggest that Fifa plays exactly like Ice Hockey) but it's an incredibly similar experience, first thing i noticed when i played NHL 11 was how it had the exact same scripted super-human keepers (goaltenders) that Fifa does because it's so easy to carve open shots.

I am sorely disappointed with the NHL series. Much like Fifa feels like streamlined football, NHL feels like streamlined Ice Hockey. I'm basing my experience on NHL 11 though, i haven't played 12.
 
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lancers said:
You obviously have more contact with these guys than most. Do they think the product they have released on this gen machines is the least bit acceptable? For all its faults I think EA are miles ahead. With just a few years at most of life left on this gen do you hold out hope the game will look and sound better than what they are producing currently? I don't.
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I concur. At least EA created a new engine for sports games this generation. For that i at least admire them even though i don't think the ideology of their games falls in line with my own. That's why they established a brand new fanbase. They had something new that put more interest in the game. People, including myself, said to themselves they wanted to play the series because it felt like something new. This is new. This interests me.

PES' engine is like an upgraded version of the one they used for the PS2. I honestly couldn't think of it as a new engine in the same way as Fifa's is. I believe the lack of appeal for PES is not completely down to how people perceive how the game itself plays but the overbearing feeling that this game doesn't feel new, it doesn't feel like i should invest time in it because there's no point. Like or not we live in a world where if you put a new engine out, something that 'looks' really good, then people are going to pay attention to it because it feels like it's worth investing some time into. If Konami is really interested in appealing to a new fanbase then this is something they're going to have to realise.

I agree with FlawedGenius when he suggests that there's a big difference between Japanese and Western developers. Japanese developers don't seem to get the above at all. For the most part it isn't really necessary because a lot of Japanese games have such a core fanbase established already. The truth is that a lot of Japanese games can get by without necessarilly having too big an upgrade from PS2 engines. Specifically JRPGs. With sports games though this really isn't good enough. I would argue that the same is true of Gran Turismo 5 as well and ergo racing games (which is the most similar genre to sports games i can think of). It's like Japanese developers just can't understand what makes games appealing to the Western market. Capcom does actually but they take it too far. See their own acknowledgement that they wish to appeal to 'Call of Duty' fans with Resident Evil 6. Nice idea but i wish there was a middle ground where developers didn't want to sell out completely. I.e Pes retaining its apparent ideology but using technology that will appeal to a lot of Western gamers.
 
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Northzzz said:
They are of course an upgrade but really just a cosmetic one. The engine still feels the same wouldn't you agree?
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The engine hasn't really changed at all has it? You could trace it back to the ISS games on the PS1. It's just been tweaks and adjustments to the same base engine since way back then.
 
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