The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?

  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
Cheers for that Northzzz, someone else also replied about the tech required to run games on PC these days and it does seem as if I have misjudged how quickly PCs require upgrading these days. I seem to remember them going out of date pretty quickly in the past but obviously this trend has slowed somewhat.

I dont agree with you on the limited resources point regarding PES 2012's graphics though. Which parts of 2012 have been upgraded to the point where it caused the graphics to be downgraded exactly? It's not as if the game has had a total overhaul and has a lot more features than 2011 or 2010 did. If PES 2012 is an example of the PS3 being pushed to it's absolute limits I would be VERY surprised. I personally think they've simply gone for a different look and it hasn't worked out very well on the console versions. I agree there's no point debating it though because neither of us will ever know for sure.

Just out of interest, what would you say is the average shelf life of a PC these days then? How long would it last before you would find you had to upgrade it in order to play a brand new game on maximum settings?
 
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If there were PC games that used a lot of of the raw processing power of high-end PCs on things such as complex/realistic AI, physics, gameplay mechanics etc. then it might be worth it, because personally I couldn't care less about graphics.
 
I didn't try the Spanish commentary when I had PES2012 because I couldn't be bothered navigating the rest of the games' menus etc in Spanish, as I can't speak the language. It does however say it all that the EU version allows you to change this in-game without changing the rest of the game, yet someone must have specifically altered this for the UK version. Konami really can be a bunch of bellends sometimes.

As for PC's, I know someone who has a top of the range one and it costs him a small fortune. He's constantly ordering parts, water coolant, you name it. Good luck to anyone who's interested in doing so, but aside from having the ability to apply mods to games (which is very cool indeed) and having better graphics, I don't personally see much point. I personally am a bit of a graphics whore I admit, I'm a sucker for a nice looking game, and I kind of understand Battlefield 3 having that allure as it looks astonishing on PC, but PES? Resolution aside, graphically it's the same game as consoles. So paying all that money for slightly sharper textures on PES is still polishing a turd at the end of the day.
 
LTFC said:
That's what I've always thought. Plus some of the chants are embarrassing, particularly the Man Utd default ones. And the video that came out before PES2011 showing the audio team cramming a bunch of random guys into a broom cupboard and getting them to try and sound like a full on 50,000 crowd was cringeworthy.

I swear the PS2 versions had more reactive crowds though I may be wrong. The crowds need to sound less echoey, react to events far better, and even the commentators need to be integrated into the surrounding crowds better, as they currently sound like they're separate from the same physical space as the crowd, like they're recording their lines in a broom cupboard, which after that video I saw means they probably were.

In PES2011 & 12 I had to switch the major team's chants to the default crowd noises for that region just to get rid of the awful rhythmic 5-10 second sound bytes playing on a loop the entire game. Did my nut in.

And another thing, why is it that in PS2 PES games you could go to the menu settings and change the commentary language whilst still keeping the overall game (menus, text etc) in English? They've now removed the option for different languages without having to have the entire game, menus and all, in that language. Who decided this at some point? Did they not consider that people quite liked playing a Spanish league for example with Spanish commentary? Baffling.
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LOL, would love to see the video of one person trying to replicate 50,000 people, that is classic.

I agree the chants are terrible, I acutally got a lot of my chants from the ones that were made for Fifa 11 and downloaded some from youtube. Then used mp3 gain and then put 4 chants for each team. It's nothing spectacular but its much better then the default chants. If I can do this in my spare time and I'm not even a programming wiz then what the hell is the audio department at Konmai doing?

The thing I hate about crowds in PES is they don't react, you hear them yell 'YEAH!" when you score a goal but they are still sitting down. Major buzz kill. The PS2 crowds may looks like cardboard cut outs but at least you could see them jumping up and down when you scored.
 
Are you refering to the Spanish (Spain) comentary or the Spanish one from America.

The second one is good, the comentary has a lot of jokes and sounds funny, and the English sound good too.
 
Northzzz said:
I dunno man. Programming 22 AI NPCs to all individually function (21 obviously when playing). That's going to take a lot of resources surely. If the engine doesn't allow for that to be optimal, and we've heard a lot of criticism about PES', then you're going to hit a problem.
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PES isn't pushing any consoles to its limits. Nowhere near that. The AI is decent. The animation system is archaic. PS3 version uses no AA, not sure about 360.
Framerate seems to be all over the place on PS3. Physics engine is also ancient. Hardly giving both consoles any trouble.
 
That video tells you all you need to know about their production values and why the the game is in such a sad state. They either dont have the budget or they dont care.
 
ftgpete said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7kWF_-eNfM

I actually found it, LOL, was worse than I thought. They are arn't even chanting anything.
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Ern Dog said:
That video tells you all you need to know about their production values and why the the game is in such a sad state. They either dont have the budget or they dont care.
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Jamezinho said:
Christ, that video is even more excruciatingly embarrassing the second time around.
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This was not recording for the actual game, guys. This was recording a sample to demonstrate that you could put your own chants in the game (which was new to PES 2011). EA did exactly the same thing when we went over to Canada. Except it was even more cringeworthy than that.
 
romagnoli said:
This was not recording for the actual game, guys. This was recording a sample to demonstrate that you could put your own chants in the game (which was new to PES 2011). EA did exactly the same thing when we went over to Canada. Except it was even more cringeworthy than that.
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Of course it was! ;)

EA put real chants in Fifa, Konami put in chants that have been made up by 20 Japanese people! No matter how you spin it we have all played both games and heard the chants for each game.
 
romagnoli said:
This was not recording for the actual game, guys. This was recording a sample to demonstrate that you could put your own chants in the game (which was new to PES 2011). EA did exactly the same thing when we went over to Canada. Except it was even more cringeworthy than that.
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Kind of academic though, Rom. Obviously it was a demonstration for the media, but the results speak for themselves. The audio in PES is terrible.
 
romagnoli said:
This was not recording for the actual game, guys. This was recording a sample to demonstrate that you could put your own chants in the game (which was new to PES 2011). EA did exactly the same thing when we went over to Canada. Except it was even more cringeworthy than that.
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it sounds like the final thing to me.

I still have the juventus chants from pes5 in my mind. amusing stuff, sounded like some sort of broken tape in ur car back in the 80es.

why are u always so defensive and you can't admit that the sound stinks? in no way konami put in real chants.
 
Ektor70 said:
it sounds like the final thing to me.

I still have the juventus chants from pes5 in my mind. amusing stuff, sounded like some sort of broken tape in ur car back in the 80es.

why are u always so defensive and you can't admit that the sound stinks? in no way konami put in real chants.
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Not wishing to answer for Rom but it didn't come across as defensive at all. I know he shares the same frustrations with the game as the rest of us.

Sure, that video was just a press demo, but the sad thing is the user created chants sound so much better than what Konami can do. The community creates chants by sampling real-life crowd noise from videos of football matches. Konami achieve a lesser result with a load of Japanese blokes in a broom cupboard, singing in 'Engrish' and hitting footballs with their fists.
 
Jamezinho said:
Not wishing to answer for Rom but it didn't come across as defensive at all. I know he shares the same frustrations with the game as the rest of us.

Sure, that video was just a press demo, but the sad thing is the user created chants sound so much better than what Konami can do. The community creates chants by sampling real-life crowd noise from videos of football matches. Konami achieve a lesser result with a load of Japanese blokes in a broom cupboard, singing in 'Engrish' and hitting footballs with their fists.
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I think he comes across as defensive due to the pop at EA rather than talking about the sound issues in PES which he bypasses.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
I think he comes across as defensive due to the pop at EA rather than talking about the sound issues in PES which he bypasses.
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Not to get off track but you mentioned the other day that you could download PES 2010. I have PSN accounts in the USA UK and Japan but can't find the demo anywhere. Where can I download it for PS3?

Haven't played the game in quite some time the negatives that stick in my mind is the on rails feeling and the fact that it was a cross fest.
 
Maybe it was a demonstration of the ability to put you own files into the game's audio, I can't speak Japanese so I can't tell. Either way the actual chants in the game sounded just as bad.

Plus I still find it funny that they somehow got a family rated game past the censors two years in a row whereby in 2011 the Man Utd crowd chanted about "Alan Shearer, was fucking dearer" etc, then PES 2012 features a really faint sound during the post match stats screen where some cockney shouts "you fuckin' wanka!" in the background. Konami continue to amaze....
 
lancers said:
Not to get off track but you mentioned the other day that you could download PES 2010. I have PSN accounts in the USA UK and Japan but can't find the demo anywhere. Where can I download it for PS3?

Haven't played the game in quite some time the negatives that stick in my mind is the on rails feeling and the fact that it was a cross fest.
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PSN Store seems to be down for me at the minute but checked Live and it seems it's gone with only PES 2008, 2011 & 2012 up.

With the Xbox you can go through everything you have downloaded and download it again no problem but not sure if thats possible on the PS3?


LTFC said:
Maybe it was a demonstration of the ability to put you own files into the game's audio, I can't speak Japanese so I can't tell. Either way the actual chants in the game sounded just as bad.

Plus I still find it funny that they somehow got a family rated game past the censors two years in a row whereby in 2011 the Man Utd crowd chanted about "Alan Shearer, was fucking dearer" etc, then PES 2012 features a really faint sound during the post match stats screen where some cockney shouts "you fuckin' wanka!" in the background. Konami continue to amaze....
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It was a demonstration but Konami take real chants and then get Japanese folk to resing them for the game, 1 that springs to mind is the Liverpool one from either last years game or 2010 it was horrible.
 
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This is the problem. I posted something factual that many of us will remember from the PES 2011 buildup. With the usual crowd, the ones who've just fallen off the Xmas tree but think they've got everyone figured out, it becomes 'spin' or 'defensiveness' - all I'm actually doing is trying to stop people backing up their arguments with red herrings. My comment about EA's version of the same event was based on the fact that I was one of the voices, FFS. We had French, German, Italian and English people singing 'There's Only One David Rutter' very slowly, with soft t's (David Rudder), first thing in the morning. It was comfortably the flattest and most excruciating performance I've been part of or witness to since my school assembly days. We were meant to hear the chants in action later that day, but they seemed to abandon that. Good move IMO.

Jamez - You won't find me arguing that the sound is decent, let alone good. I prefer the reaction to goals in PES, but otherwise it's a clean sweep in EA's favour.

Both games need to improve - PES massively so - but what you're watching in that video is not how either sound department creates chants. Not in isolation, anyway - there's be a huge difference between the raw file and what then goes into the game. But neither games uses live recordings of chants in-stadium either, as far as I know; it'll all be synthetic or a blend of fake and real voices.

If EA were able to use real, directly recorded chants, they'd sound a lot closer to the typical chant on Sky Sports than the far less distinct and rich offerings they have now. If Konami were able to they wouldn't have awkward sounding chants like 'Riverpoo' in PES 2010 (though they would have a lot more of the 'Oh Alan Shearer Is Fucking Dearer' gaffes of 2011).

Best football game for sound was WC2010. No-brainer. Even if you hate vuvuzelas, the sound was frighteningly convincing at times, simply cos they could use genuine audio samples, rather than faking it.
 
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romagnoli said:
Best football game for sound was WC2010. No-brainer. Even if you hate vuvuzelas, the sound was frighteningly convincing at times, simply cos they could use genuine audio samples, rather than faking it.
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Agreed, the sound and general atmosphere of that game was stunning. It's odd why that's not been the benchmark for Konami and EA to be honest.
 
It's tricky cos WC2010's sound was basically standard FIFA plus Vuvuzelas. They made all the difference. Oh, and that was the first game where they had the chink of the metal bar that holds the net down when you buried a shot. That was a great touch, which came from that man Simon Humber talking to the sound guy Jeff MacPherson about something he'd often hear on MotD.

All FIFA can do to match it is to really boost the richness of the chants, have a lot more regional variety (a missed chance in Spain sounds wildly different to a missed chance in England, for example) and to create something far more aware of things like potential turnovers or good crosses narrowly missing heads/feet.

It'd be fantastic if either company could really nail what it sounds like playing away vs Galatasaray, or against lower league sides. But I don't know if enough resource will be dedicated to sound by either studio this gen to really make that happen.
 
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And it would be good if they tied it to game specific events/momentum. But to be honest, whilst it could be a lot better, it doesn't detract from the game for me. But of course, they could make it outstanding with more work.

That's the frustrating thing with PES v FIFA. PES just needs to polish up a few things (well a lot of things) and the core gameplay could shine through, whereas FIFA keep polishing up something so that it looks realistic rather than plays realistically :P
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
That's the frustrating thing with PES v FIFA. PES just needs to polish up a few things (well a lot of things) and the core gameplay could shine through, whereas FIFA keep polishing up something so that it looks realistic rather than plays realistically :P
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Roll on PES 2013 since now it's supposed to be a proper up to date title. It's the game that will show if Seabass and co are either extremely talented and still got it or they dont have the skills needed in this day and age to make a AAA title.

I think the Fifa engine this gen has gone as far as it can so i honestly cant see EA pulling it out the bag this year but better AI would go a hell of a long way to make the game very good but AAA material? Dont see it.
 
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Flaw3d Genuis said:
Roll on PES 2013 since now it's supposed to be a proper up to date title. It's the game that will show if Seabass and co are either extremely talented and still got it or they dont have the skills needed in this day and age to make a AAA title.

I think the Fifa engine this gen has gone as far as it can so i honestly cant see EA pulling it out the bag this year but better AI would go a hell of a long way to make the game very good but AAA material? Dont see it.
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A slider for CPU foul frequency would be nice. I agree the game has pretty much gone as far as it can on current gen machines.

I hope PES can pull it off next year.
 
Flaw3d Genuis said:
Roll on PES 2013 since now it's supposed to be a proper up to date title.
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I wish they had told me that PES 2012 was merely a stop-gap game and not an "up to date title". That would have saved me spending 40 bucks on the damn thing and you lot wouldn't have had to read my rants about the game! :))

If Konami are saying they're pulling out all the stops to give us a proper football game this year does that mean they are admitting to fobbing us off with lacklustre, dated shite last year because they couldn't be bothered? What are they going to do differently this year exactly?
 
pj_puttz said:
If Konami are saying they're pulling out all the stops to give us a proper football game this year does that mean they are admitting to fobbing us off with lacklustre, dated shite last year because they couldn't be bothered? What are they going to do differently this year exactly?
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No, they're giving us the usual hype but PES2013 will really just be a tweaked version of PES2012, as usual.
 
In pes 2011 i actually created a file with generic crowd sound taken from the 1982 world cup and replace all the chants with that. it just changed the game atmosphere completely. to bad i lost it, well, it took 5 minutes to do that (some clapping, some generic chants, some old school noise). i still think people making chants are the worst editor ever, they actually make chants that sound worse than konami original ones (a few drunks in a pub).

Does anyone have the original fifa chants or crowd noise?

As far as the commentary goes, i think it would be better to get rid of specific lines for clubs or players or specific actions simply becuase after the 5th time u hear the same crap it gets annoying. Some generic stuff would be more welcomed and maybe it could help if the commentantor would tell stuff in real time like
"ronaldo scored 10 goals in the season so far" or "they came from 3 victories in a row" or "they are just 2 points away from the relagation place".

I don't think it would take a rocket scientists to create a few hundred lines like that so that u get
1) useful info
2) u feel like the commentator is really following ur master league

I really don't care to listen for a zillion times that the olimpic stadium was built in 19XX.
 
Unless someone can rip apart the game engine on a PC and make drastic changes the PC version is the same like. Made me laugh when I read the post saying Consoles are just toys and the PC version of PES 2012 is amazing. Its not. Ive got a Core i7 2600K GTX 580 machine and PES runs smooth but the gameplay is still as bad as most people in here have commented.
 
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