The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

Nail.On.The.Head

PES10 was the last PES I enjoyed.

thats coz u cant feel the players well while controlling them
no relation no connection to them, no big differences during a match
it become a 0815 experience, shallow

this explains your feelings about 012


010 on the other hand was great in this, very very great

im playing on top player iv never changed my level of competition im really good at pes but what im seeing is outside the box im getting alot of shots blocked that is interrupting my enjoyment theres nothing wrong with the game and it is exactly how i wanted it to be but the cpu is such a stubborn opposition, shooting is laggy too much shots are blocked otherwise it's a 9/10 for me and i mean it just this blocked shots are cutting my enjoyment

not only this, deflection goals for me(or against me) were like 2/3 all goals in the game
this is no pes anymore
this is AI wars 012

 

[Primepeace]

yes i just finished another game on friendly on top player, after changing the maximum pre rendered frames from 3 to 1 on nvidia and guess what i beat galatasaray 2 goals to 0 with barcelona hopefully all soughted out thanx for you patience dude you'll never walk alone

 

[Nobleknight]

Nail.On.The.Head

PES10 was the last PES I enjoyed.

totally agree
PES2010 was the best PES on PS3 that got that satisfying feel when you hit the ball either shooting,passing,crossing

And I think that's because of the animations and its believable result unlike PES2011 &12

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

totally agree
PES2010 was the best PES on PS3 that got that satisfying feel when you hit the ball either shooting,passing,crossing

And I think that's because of the animations and its believable result unlike PES2011 &12

heavy slow down gamespeed with kitserver for 011 helps creating this feeling of 010 again
so far enjoying it

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

It could have been coded that way to give the keepers an easier time. We all know they are not very good.

If you go back to Demo 1 or 2 shots go where you aim but in the final game to make the keepers look good shots are decided by the CPU.

I'd take Demo 2's shooting mechanics with dodgy keepers every day of the week.

 

[pj_puttz]

last PES that felt satisfying to score goals was PES2010 in my opinion. It was one thing that game got right.

For some reason Konami seem to love nothing more than getting certain aspects of football games just about right then changing them for no apparent reason for the next installment of PES.

It's like I've said before, PES 2012 being shit isn't really the thing that worries me, it's the fact that Konami seem to have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER how to make positive progress with PES and that the entire series is heading for the scrap heap because of this.

They try to fix the things that aint broken and the new things they add are usually absolutely terrible. Just look at what they've done to the Master League this year. What was wrong with the training system last year? NOTHING. So they changed it into the horrible, confusing mess we have today. Same goes for the shooting and the passing. Not to mention the fact they've gone and turned all your players into whining bitches who make you want to grind your teeth down to powder and scream "FUCK OFF!" every time they tell you what number they want or how surprised they were to play 90 minutes! Surely even a fucking moron could have predicted that was going to get REALLY old after about 10 minutes?

PES isn't going through any sort of "evolution" at all. In fact at this rate PES 2015 will be a direct port of Kick Off 2.

 

[Primepeace]

For some reason Konami seem to love nothing more than getting certain aspects of football games just about right then changing them for no apparent reason for the next installment of PES.

YEP!

 

[Ektor70]

i am giving the pc version a go with pes 2010 broadcast. Today i scored a screamer with de rossi: too bad i actually aimed right and the screamer went left. I did not celebrate actually, it felt like cheating with the game deciding itself everything.

I can actually shoot pretty decently (i play professional, top players is just 22 people in the box) and i can easily disregard the unappealing and dated look of the game. But i'd really love some decent crowd sound or commentators: listening over and over to 2 badly coded roma chants almost drived me mad. I actually turned everything off...audio in pes 2012 is an embarassment to the videogame industry..

 

[johnking]

thought they had fixed the keepers?

was playing as man city v barca online when i was around the corner flag in my own half and tried to clear the ball up the pitch. when sanchez gets ablock in and the ball looks as though its gonna land just in front of my goal line there is nobody there apart from my gk hart.
i am fully expecting him to catch the ball.
but to my suprise he never lifts his hands and does not even jump but cooly proceeds to head it into his own net and i never touched a button.
prior to that up the other end aguero is in real terms say a yard away from the goal line both his gk and defender are on the floor after colliding so a cert goal i press shoot 3 times and aguero does not move an inch.good old konami scripting!!

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

So what were the good and bad points about PES 2010? Is it worth renting to try it out? You guys are saying there was a lot of satisfaction from the crossing and shooting.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

So what were the good and bad points about PES 2010? Is it worth renting to try it out? You guys are saying there was a lot of satisfaction from the crossing and shooting.

Download the demo, the best points were by far the Graphics and Animations (tons of small animations that looked amazing, Running animation was still severely baywatched up)

Crossing was to perfect imo, you'd cross it and 8/10 someone would diving header it in. Shooting is certainly better than PES 2012.

 

[Northzzz]

Shooting - for me anyway - is the most satisfying part of a football game. If it feels right I can overlook other, less satisfactory components of the gameplay (within reason). Fifa12, for instance, gets shooting right. It's not perfect but it has a good, weighty, believable feel to it, and the ball generally goes where you aim for. The actual act of scoring goals in that game (taking build-up play out of the equation) provides a good feeling, more akin to PS2 generation PES.

PES2012 on the other hand is just terrible. Shooting is horribly vague, usually lacking in power and often random in direction. I don't know if it's even down to statistics or scripting, more the whole shooting mechanic feels wrong. The last PES that felt satisfying to score goals was PES2010 in my opinion. It was one thing that game got right.

That's true.

I actually altered a few things around (pc mods) and somehow managed to get a really weighty feel on the ball. The ball physics act more like Fifa's than i initially thought possible. They're great and have that weight on them.

The problem is that it messes up the gameplay and goalkeepers end up being unable to react a large amount of the time to the new physics. It feels like they're reacting to something else that should be happening in the script. It doesn't happen all the time but it happens enough to see it clearly as an issue.

I also recently went into the training mode to try out the physics, what i discovered was completely what everybody else had been saying about shooting straight at the keeper. I also knew it was there i just hadn't tested it. It's clear when you try 1 v 1s inside the box with no CPU players except the opposition GK. There seems to be no logic in the aiming whatsoever and most shots, despite my valiant efforts of pushing the stick as hard as i can diagonally left or right, just end up going straight down the middle.

Personally i don't mind seeing that many long shots going down the middle, especially ones that fly through the air. Usually they do in real life, not as often as PES portrays but i can suspend my disbelief. Like a lot of PES, the end result if justifiable even if it is through unrealistic measures. If i had to guess often in real life a player's focus with long shots is getting it on target rather than aiming for the corner. The best chances of getting it on target means they will put it down the middle more often than not, whether that's intended or sub-conscious. Usually the ones that go towards the top corners, with the power you'd get like with any given long shot on PES, are pretty hard to save.

Today i scored a screamer with de rossi: too bad i actually aimed right and the screamer went left. I did not celebrate actually, it felt like cheating with the game deciding itself everything.

Happens all the time, seriously 1/3 goals i score will come from something stupid happening. Either the computer doing something ridiculous and making it all too easy for me or me scoring in a way i didn't mean to at all as you describe. Another 1/3 goals will make be ooze with delight, even vocally celebrating, and the remaining 1/3 times will be something like a header from a cross or a simple through ball and i won't be moved either way, especially with crosses as i just feel they're horribly easy to whip in. It's a pretty inconsistent experience which is annoying. As Jamezinho says shooting, and ergo scoring, is the most satisfying part of any football game and as such it being incredibly inconsistent, honestly it just feels random and out of your control a lot of the time, makes the game far less enjoyable than it should be.

 

[Northzzz]

So what were the good and bad points about PES 2010? Is it worth renting to try it out? You guys are saying there was a lot of satisfaction from the crossing and shooting.

It has a lot of individual things that are better than 2012 but i doubt you could play it now and enjoy it as whole game. 2012 is a better game believe experience believe it or not. That's the thing that's annoying. The games are getting better technically but they keep losing a lot of the good factors about them. I couldn't go back to playing 2011 either but that game too has a lot of individual things that it does better than 2012. 2012 lacks a lot but it's a more well rounded experience IMO.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

That's true.
...
I also recently went into the training mode to try out the physics, what i discovered was completely what everybody else had been saying about shooting straight at the keeper. I also knew it was there i just hadn't tested it. It's clear when you try 1 v 1s inside the box with no CPU players except the opposition GK. There seems to be no logic in the aiming whatsoever and most shots, despite my valiant efforts of pushing the stick as hard as i can diagonally left or right, just end up going straight down the middle.
...

I'm not sure why people keep coming across this so often. Sure, it might be more prevalent in a game scenario or from shots outside the box, but if you go into the free training mode and just try some 1 v 1's with the keeper, you should be able to put it either side of him most if not all of the time.

You are aiming diagonally? Try straight up or straight down.

Again, I'm not saying it's the most logical way for Konami to do things...but it works most of the time. Some people say it never works???

 

[xPJRx]

They try to fix the things that aint broken and the new things they add are usually absolutely terrible. Just look at what they've done to the Master League this year. What was wrong with the training system last year? NOTHING. So they changed it into the horrible, confusing mess we have today. Same goes for the shooting and the passing. Not to mention the fact they've gone and turned all your players into whining bitches who make you want to grind your teeth down to powder and scream "FUCK OFF!" every time they tell you what number they want or how surprised they were to play 90 minutes! Surely even a fucking moron could have predicted that was going to get REALLY old after about 10 minutes?

My Exact feelings!! ML this year is a hollow shell of repetition!
The classic PES reputation was built around its flagship mode, Master League, they have f*cked with it severely and whilst you have to commend the attempt at trying to move the mode on and add new things, you also have to deplore the fact that it all feels half assed and unfinished, poorly implemented and as a result ..... non immersive.
I seriously think Konami do not understand the core basics of football.

 

[zlac]

Download the demo, the best points were by far the Graphics and Animations (tons of small animations that looked amazing, Running animation was still severely baywatched up)

Crossing was to perfect imo, you'd cross it and 8/10 someone would diving header it in. Shooting is certainly better than PES 2012.

I guess everyone has already forgotten that crosses (early crosses in particular) in 2010 were ultimate exploit? You say connection rate was around 8/10 ... with adequate targetman, I'd say scoring rate was more like 8/10. From time to time, even 'midgets' could score 3 or 4 identical headers per game. On top player.

 

[xPJRx]

I'm not sure why people keep coming across this so often. Sure, it might be more prevalent in a game scenario or from shots outside the box, but if you go into the free training mode and just try some 1 v 1's with the keeper, you should be able to put it either side of him most if not all of the time.

You are aiming diagonally? Try straight up or straight down.

Again, I'm not saying it's the most logical way for Konami to do things...but it works most of the time. Some people say it never works???

Calcio, if you are not seeing any type of shot wonkiness then you are one truly blessed man.
Its there, 100% FACT. Shots do not go where you aim, sometimes the complete opposite direction to where you aim, I have dozens of hours of video evidence to substantiate this, and im sure most people who play the game reguarly would agree.
For me, its a potential gamebreaker, and if it was intended to be that way to nerf high scorelines, then its possibly the worst decision Seabass has ever made.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I'll back up claims about shooting. Most of the time shots would go where I'd intended, power wasn't much of an issue once you'd dig the ball out from under your feet before shooting, but every now and again I'd score a beauty that in no way went in the direction I aimed with the direction stick and player's body position. Took the gloss off a fair few moments that should have been enjoyable.

 

[Ektor70]

same issue for me.

btw, does anyone have a pc file with serie B, liga adelante or the championship? i really hate patches these days, people make the visual looks hideously bright and change stats.

still if the game and animations and keepers looked as good as pes 2011 i'd say i would be playing more regularly. there is just somethig odd about the whole thing.

 

[pj_puttz]

Personally I thought the shooting (among other things) on PES 2011 was pretty much bang on but Konami, true to form, decided to change it for some reason.

For the life of me I cannot understand how a company can take a decent product like PES 2011 and turn it into the horrible mess that is PES 2012 in the space of just 1 year.

They dont "evolve" PES as "evolution" would indicate an improvement on the original. What they appear to have done with 2012 is scrap everything that worked before and start from scratch. It's like 2008 all over again and it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, especially with new tech like the PS4 and the X-Box 720 on the horizon.

They need to stop trying to re-invent the wheel with PES. They had the winning formula before but they fucked around with it so much it's completely unrecognisable from the original template and it looks like they have no idea how to get it back.

 

[Ektor70]

pes 2011 and pes 2012 have really nothing in common. it almost feels like 2 different teams produced those games. pes 2011 had a lot of good but it was a very static game when played vc cpu.

pes 2012 somehow is almost like sensible soccer, 0 midfield or tactical play just a counter attack after the other. fun, but after 2 games it leaves you so tired and fep up that kills the desire to play it. it kinda feel like pes6, i game i actually think killed the series gameplaywise.

I'd say pes 2011 with a smarter cpu, better crossing and without a zillion replays would have been a hell of a game. We got sensible soccer 2012...actually sensible soccer looked more appealing visually that this blurred washed out poorly presented ugly non sense.

 

[Nobleknight]

For the life of me I cannot understand how a company can take a decent product like PES 2011 and turn it into the horrible mess that is PES 2012 in the space of just 1 year.

true.
That's why I may decide not to buy any PES title again as they build a new game every year.
Before 2012 was released , Adam said that it will be build on PES2011.And that's not true, Konami throw the good aspects from 2011 and decided to redo them again.
And if they made a good game in 2013 , what will be the guarantee of a good game in 2014 ??

Really , konami are destroying their reputation by their own hands OR they make the game depending on opinions for their local customers only and if that's true , they are going to their end in the western market.

 

[xPJRx]

Agree with most points here, although I think likening it to Sensi Soccer is a little off the mark.

PES 11:
Shooting - Good
Passing Model - works
Individual Player Training - We Like it
Master League - Not as good as PES 10 but still immersive

PES 12:
Shooting - Changed & Now abysmal
Passing - too many levels, often inconsistent
Training - No Understanding of it, Hit & Miss, Removed Individual Player Training
Master League - Hollow, repetitive, unfinished, unrealistic

That is NOT Evolution, When something works, Konami need to stick with it and evolve it not scrap it and do something different.
You have to wonder about the feedback they receive, do they get told that we as a user base Love individual training? That we are happy with the meaty shooting? that we like the passing but a little refinement in overall manual control needs adding....?
If so did they just ignore it ans scrap it all anyway or did they not get any feedback and just blindly changed it all regardless ?!

I used to buy the new Version of PES and upon playing it think "Nothing much has changed, how is this a new version - just updated teams?" then after hours and hours of playing and learning the new game, the 'Evolution' would become apparent... new animations, building subtly on what was there and worked before....
Nowadays, we just dont know what we are going to get, every year its like a brand new game, no carrying the previous mechanics forward and adapting and building on them, just a brand new set of controls, models, ideas..... none of which ever seem to be implemented correctly.

 

[pj_puttz]

I used to buy the new Version of PES and upon playing it think "Nothing much has changed, how is this a new version - just updated teams?" then after hours and hours of playing and learning the new game, the 'Evolution' would become apparent... new animations, building subtly on what was there and worked before....
Nowadays, we just dont know what we are going to get, every year its like a brand new game, no carrying the previous mechanics forward and adapting and building on them, just a brand new set of controls, models, ideas..... none of which ever seem to be implemented correctly.

That's exactly what was so good about PES in the past, it could grow on you. The subtle differences of the game were not always obvious from the first few games you played and it made you want to go back to it again and again until you had it sussed.

This was a true evolution of a game. Not just 12 months of cramming as much half finished crap as they possibly can into it in the blind hope that at least some of it will work. Followed by weeks of frantic patch releases when they realise sales are down the toilet.

 

[Northzzz]

I'm not sure why people keep coming across this so often. Sure, it might be more prevalent in a game scenario or from shots outside the box, but if you go into the free training mode and just try some 1 v 1's with the keeper, you should be able to put it either side of him most if not all of the time.

You are aiming diagonally? Try straight up or straight down.

Again, I'm not saying it's the most logical way for Konami to do things...but it works most of the time. Some people say it never works???

I'll try it later but to be honest aiming straight up or down doesn't feel natural whatsoever so if that's how Konami actually do it then it's laughable. I'm playing on Wide cam so the camera is basically parallel to the goal line. If i have to aim straight up or down then in reality i should be look to put it 90 degrees to the left or right of me (say if i'm facing directly towards the goal) and that would be putting out for a throw-in.

I aim diagonally because i'm looking to aim towards the corner. of the goal.

It should work as i've shown in this professional picture i just made. The position i push the thumbstick should correspond with the ball movement, obviously the success and precision of that aim depending upon stats and pressure (though the latter is ideal because it's not really implemented). Right now it feels not that it's down to my aim whatsoever but whether or not the game decides to put the ball in the corner or to put it right at the keeper.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

pes 2011 and pes 2012 have really nothing in common. it almost feels like 2 different teams produced those games. pes 2011 had a lot of good but it was a very static game when played vc cpu.

pes 2012 somehow is almost like sensible soccer, 0 midfield or tactical play just a counter attack after the other. fun, but after 2 games it leaves you so tired and fep up that kills the desire to play it. it kinda feel like pes6, i game i actually think killed the series gameplaywise.

I'd say pes 2011 with a smarter cpu, better crossing and without a zillion replays would have been a hell of a game. We got sensible soccer 2012...actually sensible soccer looked more appealing visually that this blurred washed out poorly presented ugly non sense.

Yeah I'd agree with that. After 2011, which brought me back to the series, I expected 2012 to be an improvement on what had gone before. I thought 2012 would have better graphics and sound, a better ML, player movement would be just slightly more refined and responsive, ball physics would be better, CPU less defence orientated and collision detection issues when awarding free kicks would have been sorted out. That for me would have been job done, a refinement and improvement on 2011's promising start.

Instead visuals were far worse, sound had no improvement, ML was completely illogical at best, player movement made too responsive to the detriment of player individuality, different ball physics but actually no better, a CPU that was somehow MORE defence orientated than in 2011 and equally as bad collision detection. Oh and keepers were, on the version I played up to, somehow far worse too. AI pressuring and lack of stamina effects was worse, and yeah the game now plays like basketball with no midfield play. Oh, and iffy shooting came to the fore too.

I thought the game would be less repetitive than 2011 but proved to be more so than ever before. Playing endless games that panned out the same was dull. Having 70% of the play every match, trying to break down the AI who were lined up on the edge of their own box with no midfield, then the CPU trying nothing apart from the odd counter attack is not what happens every single game in the real world.

 

[pj_puttz]

I understand what you're saying Northzzz but the shooting in Pro Evo has been the same for as long as I can remember. You always have to press directly up or down to find the corners.

Not that it matters in PES 2012 because that's exactly what I do and my shots still dont go where I tell them to.

 

[Zakov]

For some reason Konami seem to love nothing more than getting certain aspects of football games just about right then changing them for no apparent reason for the next installment of PES.

This is what does my head in, things like Management Edit was brilliant in PES2011, but for some reason it's missing in PES2012, probably replaced totally by the manager A.I. This is why I'm having a hard time(in terms of enjoyment) playing against teams like Stoke not hoofing the ball to Crouch as they do in reality and instead pass their way to the front like Barca constantly. I also remember the player arrows(not the condition arrows obviously) back in the PS2 days, and wondered why they had to remove the feature.

I do agree with PES2010 being the most satisfying in terms of finishing, it felt so natural and you really felt like you had full control in terms of how you wanted to strike the ball inside the box. The sidefoot finish animation was top notch and I was really disappointed after KONAMI changed it yet again in PES2011. It's somewhat okay in PES2012 but not as satisfying as it was in PES2010.

 

[Northzzz]

I wish i could record my my games with the mods on. Sometimes they are a joy to play. The weighted physics make such a drastic change because shooting is just so so so so much better. In addition i've recently bought a new LED monitor so the game looks gorgeous in 1920x1080 resolution with the 5,000,000:1 contrast ratio (not trying to show off or anything but instead to give you an idea of how i'm playing the game).

The only real downers in this game i just had (Netherlands 0 - 2 Mexico (cpu)) was a few instances where my players just let a pass roll past them. It's a pretty big immersion breaker. It's like the script completely goes fails. The ball is literally about a foot away from them.

Two things to getting the best out of PES that i've also come to understand is firstly to never play through balls. They break gameplay because the intended receiver becomes unmovable when they're on their 'set path' (the script). You'll rarely ever be able to get the ball unless you're in free space on your own, this brings me onto my next point. I swear opponent defenders are scripted to react quicker when you play through balls. They certainly react quicker than if i just use the long ball button rather than lofted through ball as i get far more success doing that even if the way the ball travels is near-identical to a lofted through-ball. The other thing to enjoying PES more is to use International teams solely. PES lacks cohesion and as such it just ruins my immersion when using club teams. I can accept that it feels like 11 complete individuals on the pitch much more with international teams, teams that are often assembled as individuals rather than as a cohesive unit. That's a binary opposite to Fifa, in which the game feels like using a unit as opposed to 11 individuals and hence club teams feel more natural than international teams do.

When i just stop expecting PES to work it starts to work. The inconsistency is on another level though. I'll have one or two great games followed by a game where the game just falls apart. I know it's around the corner.

 

[Ern Dog]

What mods are you using northzzz? I tried to get back into PES last night after FIFA broke and I found it very hard to play. On the one hand I loved the passing, shooting & individuality but on the other the goal keepers are a joke, the dribbling feels horrible, its a bit rigid and on rails and it all feels very light and flimsy compared to FIFA. Do the mods help with any of that?