The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[pj_puttz]

Sorry, was my last post, but I had to say thanks for providing me with some fantastic entertainment. The way you can twist around every little thing against Adam or WENB is some talent!

I can see it now...

'Konami confirm WENB are working on 99% of PES 2013'

PJ: 'See! Adam is a bullshitter! he say he was working on the whole game! 1% proves he's an embarrassment!'

And then, 4/5 of you gather round and fist pump in agreement!



Oh deary me. Thank you for making my morning!

Sorry but I cant make any sense out of that post at all.

Perhaps you could try actually commenting on what I posted rather than creating fantasy scenarios in your head about Konami telling us WENB have any input at all in PES 2013?

Instead of dealing in primary school fantasy stuff like "if they said that you would say this and I would be like OMG! LOL!" why dont you give me some facts to back up your argument? After all, I referred to a direct quote from Adam himself and a direct quote from the link YOU posted but all you can reply with is some make believe scenario you created in your own mind. I dont see the point of that.

My point was about the typical bullshit that people like you and WENB just love to churn out which uses many words to say very little. You want credibility? Bring us more than PR double talk and childish ridicule and you might just get it. So far I have not seen one single quote from anyone at WENB which doesn't come across as total and utter bullshit and not a peep from Konami confirming your wild boasts either.

I came onto this forum knowing very little about WENB and having no grudge or axe to grind against them but the standard of posts from people such as yourself who come here to defend them has led me to believe you are a bunch of arrogant wankers who love nothing more than talking down to everyone and bragging about how important you all are compared to the rest of us. Unfortunately when someone challenges any of you on it, and you cant censor them by banning them from the forum, you all struggle hilariously to back up any of your claims.

I'll make it simple for you. Explain to me in layman terms what this statement actually means in terms of what WENB will be responsible for in PES 2013:

"the exterior, what is built upon each layer, is something we're very much part of"

Shouldn't be too hard. Should it?

 

[curdstar]

Sorry but I cant make any sense out of that post at all.

Perhaps you could try actually commenting on what I posted rather than creating fantasy scenarios in your head about Konami telling us WENB have any input at all in PES 2013?

Instead of dealing in primary school fantasy stuff like "if they said that you would say this and I would be like OMG! LOL!" why dont you give me some facts to back up your argument? After all, I referred to a direct quote from Adam himself and a direct quote from the link YOU posted but all you can reply with is some make believe scenario you created in your own mind. I dont see the point of that.

My point was about the typical bullshit that people like you and WENB just love to churn out which uses many words to say very little. You want credibility? Bring us more than PR double talk and childish ridicule and you might just get it. So far I have not seen one single quote from anyone at WENB which doesn't come across as total and utter bullshit and not a peep from Konami confirming your wild boasts either.

I came onto this forum knowing very little about WENB and having no grudge or axe to grind against them but the standard of posts from people such as yourself who come here to defend them has led me to believe you are a bunch of arrogant wankers who love nothing more than talking down to everyone and bragging about how important you all are compared to the rest of us. Unfortunately when someone challenges any of you on it, and you cant censor them by banning them from the forum, you all struggle hilariously to back up any of your claims.

I'll make it simple for you. Explain to me in layman terms what this statement actually means in terms of what WENB will be responsible for in PES 2013:

"the exterior, what is built upon each layer, is something we're very much part of"

Shouldn't be too hard. Should it?

So you claim we're arrogant wankers, and expect a response? You're golden! Plenty of information on WENB, dare you go???

Let me just tell you straight, PJ. You seem to want to involve yourself in intelligent conversation, but too often people don't take you very seriously. Your posts have agenda's, you have the need to personally insult people with every point you make, and every point you do make is never balanced or unbiased.

Every post you've made against WENB is completely hate ridden and offensive, to simply expect me to take ANYTHING you say seriously is incredible.

I came in to respond a statement from LTFC. I'd appreciate if the people who want to bash WENB do so without demanding a response from me. Many people who visit Evo-web want to talk PES, not mention WENB every 5 seconds.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Embarrassing to whom exactly? If it ever comes to light WENB are helping development of the game, will we ever get an apology? Hell no!

Sorry to quote you mate, but of all the users piping up at WENB, I genuinely do care somewhat about your opinions, I find myself reading a lot of what you write and agreeing with your assessment of both Football games. Problem is, it's getting tiresome of false accusations about WENB. It's very much like Chinese whispers. We say one thing, it gets passed around, and now people on here are saying we're saying 'it's our game'?

But LTFC, Adam posted some details about what were doing for PES 2013. As much as he could say anyway back in December. Might help stem the flow of incorrect statements, although we know knowledge isn't exactly what a few are here for:

http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5465&start=520#p272638

Fair enough Curdstar, I personally don't have that much beef with Winning Eleven Blog and certainly not with you. I've generally stayed out of the whole WEBN bashing thing but I was quoting something Adam said when I took a look on there that I felt sounded quite arrogant and so was embarrassing on his own behalf. But maybe I'm just being a bit too sensitive on the matter. I just felt that to proclaim it as 'our' game was more of an arrogant thing but maybe he meant it as the community in general.

But you're right in that all this bashing of the other forum is counter productive, so I'll gladly step away from that area and only talk about the game itself

 

[pj_puttz]

So you claim we're arrogant wankers, and expect a response? You're golden! Plenty of information on WENB, dare you go???

Let me just tell you straight, PJ. You seem to want to involve yourself in intelligent conversation, but too often people don't take you very seriously. Your posts have agenda's, you have the need to personally insult people with every point you make, and every point you do make is never balanced or unbiased.

Every post you've made against WENB is completely hate ridden and offensive, to simply expect me to take ANYTHING you say seriously is incredible.

I came in to respond a statement from LTFC. I'd appreciate if the people who want to bash WENB do so without demanding a response from me. Many people who visit Evo-web want to talk PES, not mention WENB every 5 seconds.

And there we have it, another response which completely ignores every point in my post. Many words, little substance and lashings of arrogance. So arrogant in fact that you cant even bring yourself to answer the very simple question I asked you at the end of my post. Or am I mistaking arrogance for ignorance?

People, like me, disagreeing with you or having a negative opinion of WENB does not constitute an "agenda" or make them "biased". You consistently avoid responding properly to any post which challenges your views by hiding behind words such "agenda" and "bias" but all I have ever asked for is that you cut the bullshit and give us some definitive, verifiable information on WENBs involvement in the development of PES 2013. Is that really so much to ask?

I say again, the people from WENB who have come on here have come across very poorly in terms of their credibility as sources of genuine information and their general attitude to anyone who has the audacity to challenge them. I have no desire to visit WENB if all I am going to find there is the deliberately vague, condescending smoke and mirrors bullshit that you and your WENB buddies have spouted on this thread.

You and posts like yours have turned me against WENB. You only have yourselves to blame for my opinion of you but my opinion does not constitute an "agenda". It is merely my opinion. What would I have to gain from having an agenda against WENB?

The only person who seems to have an agenda here is you. What do you have to gain from you constant, poorly constructed defence of WENB and it's cronies I wonder?

 

[curdstar]

Fair enough Curdstar, I personally don't have that much beef with Winning Eleven Blog and certainly not with you. I've generally stayed out of the whole WEBN bashing thing but I was quoting something Adam said when I took a look on there that I felt sounded quite arrogant and so was embarrassing on his own behalf. But maybe I'm just being a bit too sensitive on the matter. I just felt that to proclaim it as 'our' game was more of an arrogant thing but maybe he meant it as the community in general.

But you're right in that all this bashing of the other forum is counter productive, so I'll gladly step away from that area and only talk about the game itself

When I saw it appear here it was quotes taken from Adam pretty much saying he had a massive involvement in the game. Which is true, but because of the nature of the statement, he couldn't go into depth meaning it could have sounded worse to other community forums. But it was still people making up their version. He never categorically said 'I'm working on Gameplay, and coding with Seabass' lol, but assumptions were made by people due to the vague nature of earlier quotes.

The fact we have nothing to do with working on gameplay doesn't mean we don't (as a community) have any influence on gameplay as a whole. So hopefully the recent quote clears up previous quotes.

Anyhoo, I'm sure more will become clear in the coming months.

Cheers

 

[curdstar]

And there we have it, another response which completely ignores every point in my post. Many words, little substance and lashings of arrogance. So arrogant in fact that you cant even bring yourself to answer the very simple question I asked you at the end of my post. Or am I mistaking arrogance for ignorance?

People, like me, disagreeing with you or having a negative opinion of WENB does not constitute an "agenda" or make them "biased". You consistently avoid responding properly to any post which challenges your views by hiding behind words such "agenda" and "bias" but all I have ever asked for is that you cut the bullshit and give us some definitive, verifiable information on WENBs involvement in the development of PES 2013. Is that really so much to ask?

I say again, the people from WENB who have come on here have come across very poorly in terms of their credibility as sources of genuine information and their general attitude to anyone who has the audacity to challenge them. I have no desire to visit WENB if all I am going to find there is the deliberately vague, condescending smoke and mirrors bullshit that you and your WENB buddies have spouted on this thread.

You and posts like yours have turned me against WENB. You only have yourselves to blame for my opinion of you but my opinion does not constitute an "agenda". It is merely my opinion. What would I have to gain from having an agenda against WENB?

The only person who seems to have an agenda here is you. What do you have to gain from you constant, poorly constructed defence of WENB and it's cronies I wonder?

Of course I ignored every point in your post, I said would at the start of the previous post. I then detailed exactly what I think of you.

Now you don't have to agree with me, but it's what I think of you. Exactly the same as you telling me what you think of me, and me disagreeing.

Therefore, to expect any response from me is ridiculous. It's nothing to do with ignorance or arrogance, it called 'not responding to someone because they constantly are rude and offensive'.


I think we can come to an consensus: We dislike each other. I have many people on here I get on with, and some I don't. But I still try my best to co-exist, and avoid situations of confrontation with people I don't care for.

I'm happy to live with that. Are you?

 

[xPJRx]

It amuses me that people waste their time visiting a forum to bicker and argue about a video game, I mean come on lads... seriously.... you have nothing better to do?
It also bewilders me, that people who confess they have 'had it' with PES and have traded it in or snapped the disc up or whatever, still feel the need to frequent forums to rant about a product that they apparently hate. If you dont like the game and dont play it anymore, why still rant here and there and everywhere? I think its more of a case that those people just have an underlying urge to NEED to be heard, rather than providing any constructive feedback of the said product.

As for Adam & WENB in general, i visit lots of forums, WEB included, and Adam does get alot of ill-worded, almost demanding queries/comments/questions etc and it can be hard to deal with those kind of people in a patient constructive way all the time, BUT ....... and this is coming from someone in their 30's, whos well educated and has played football professionally and played footy video games since they were invented... and also as a purely unbiased, neautral person who just wants PES to evolve into the best possible version of the game we can have.
So with that said ... from a NEUTRAL view pointg, some of the replies, statements etc from various people on the WENB forums do come across from time to time as a little 'God Like' ... 'what we say goes and if you disagree then thats not an opinion thats a slur on WENB' type approach.... which is a shame as everyone seems to forget the guys at WENB also just want the best for PES thats why they do what they do and get involved as much as they do, without pay or profit, because they are fans of the series too - but that doesnt grant license to act holier than thou' and speak down to the people that in effect, keep the site going. No forum, No community, no WENB as such. Same for any PES fan site.

WENB need to take a little look at how they respond to people who only want information, and portray a bit more of a 'community spirit' and people who 'demand' info from Adam,Alan et al need to learn how to communicate in an effective and respectful manner.

Just my two cents worth.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

you are quite frankly unbearable curdstar. stick to your blog, people here are just expressing ideas and concerns.

as far as your being involved...i myself think it is bullshit, like most things that guy say. he is a compulsive liar who has a pathological need to be at the center of attention.

but if it is true, then bad news for the game. you people don't seem to know how to objectively criticize the game. For you people pes 2088 was "a beauty in motion".

sorry you can't ban people in here like you do in your very democratically run blog.

+1

I won't be returning as I'm in no mood to turn this thread into a bitchfest again, so feel free to throw insults at will

nice pass, heres my shot:
wenb=

I won't be returning

there u go, another

 

[pj_puttz]

Of course I ignored every point in your post, I said would at the start of the previous post. I then detailed exactly what I think of you.

Now you don't have to agree with me, but it's what I think of you. Exactly the same as you telling me what you think of me, and me disagreeing.

Therefore, to expect any response from me is ridiculous. It's nothing to do with ignorance or arrogance, it called 'not responding to someone because they constantly are rude and offensive'.


I think we can come to an consensus: We dislike each other. I have many people on here I get on with, and some I don't. But I still try my best to co-exist, and avoid situations of confrontation with people I don't care for.

I'm happy to live with that. Are you?

You've got it all wrong. I dont like or dislike you, I've never even met you. This is not personal, this is me responding to the content of your posts on an internet forum. That's all. You're overcomplicating things with your talk of "hatred" and "agendas" when the process is actually very simple.

When I say your posts are vague and contain what I see as nothing more than PR bullshit that is not a personal attack. My forum posts dont define me as a person and I'm sure yours dont either. You have the opportunity to respond to my views, prove me wrong and defend your own point of view by backing up your statments with facts. So far you have failed miserably to do so, just like every other WENB person who has come here to try to defend themselves against the things we have said about them.

Can you see how that could lead me to believe that you are actually incapable of defending your point of view? Do you understand that I am probably going to think you dont actually know what the hell people like Adam are talking about either but you'll blindly defend them anyway?

Picking and choosing who you reply to smacks of someone who knows full well they're not capable of backing up anything they say. Hence why the word "bullshit" keeps appearing in my posts whenever one of you guys pops in here to remind us how silly we all are for daring to criticise WENB.

I'm not on here to be your buddy or "get on with" you. I'm here to discuss PES and when people like you turn up to defend what I and others have said about you on this forum I expect you to do more than simply ignore any posts you find a wee bit too hard to answer. By doing that you're only confirming what I thought about your posts in the first place.

The back pedalling from you is pretty funny too. Things like "He never categorically said I'm working on Gameplay, and coding with Seabass" are a great example of the politcian-like spin you put on your comments. Yes, he didnt categorically say that but then he never actually catergorically says ANYTHING does he? None of you do! You drop hints and give us the old nod and a wink suggesting you're heavily involved in some way but when we try to nail you down to what you're actually involved in you become hilariously vague by talking about the "exterior" and "layers" then refuse to become involved in further discussion!

What the hell do you expect us to think of WENB when your representatives behave like that on this forum?

 

[dmxdex2020]

Are the develops are konami simple? How can so many basic bugs not get fixed i.e the shooting ended up going at the keeper evertime like it has a radar. If i use my depad the shots go were i want them to, however i dont want to use depad i want to use analogue.

 

[Ipswich69]

For christ's sake, sort your shit out and give it a wee rest curdstar

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Are the develops are konami simple? How can so many basic bugs not get fixed i.e the shooting ended up going at the keeper evertime like it has a radar. If i use my depad the shots go were i want them to, however i dont want to use depad i want to use analogue.

Will need to give the d-pad a go as i also find my shots constantly go straight to the keeper 95% of the time and i have no control with aiming. I thought this was meant to be the year Konami dropped the d-pad altogether?

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

It amuses me that people waste their time visiting a forum to bicker and argue about a video game, I mean come on lads... seriously.... you have nothing better to do?
It also bewilders me, that people who confess they have 'had it' with PES and have traded it in or snapped the disc up or whatever, still feel the need to frequent forums to rant about a product that they apparently hate. If you dont like the game and dont play it anymore, why still rant here and there and everywhere? I think its more of a case that those people just have an underlying urge to NEED to be heard, rather than providing any constructive feedback of the said product.

As for Adam & WENB in general, i visit lots of forums, WEB included, and Adam does get alot of ill-worded, almost demanding queries/comments/questions etc and it can be hard to deal with those kind of people in a patient constructive way all the time, BUT ....... and this is coming from someone in their 30's, whos well educated and has played football professionally and played footy video games since they were invented... and also as a purely unbiased, neautral person who just wants PES to evolve into the best possible version of the game we can have.
So with that said ... from a NEUTRAL view pointg, some of the replies, statements etc from various people on the WENB forums do come across from time to time as a little 'God Like' ... 'what we say goes and if you disagree then thats not an opinion thats a slur on WENB' type approach.... which is a shame as everyone seems to forget the guys at WENB also just want the best for PES thats why they do what they do and get involved as much as they do, without pay or profit, because they are fans of the series too - but that doesnt grant license to act holier than thou' and speak down to the people that in effect, keep the site going. No forum, No community, no WENB as such. Same for any PES fan site.

WENB need to take a little look at how they respond to people who only want information, and portray a bit more of a 'community spirit' and people who 'demand' info from Adam,Alan et al need to learn how to communicate in an effective and respectful manner.

Just my two cents worth.

Amen.

I must admit I just skip read most of the posts in this thread as they are written by folk I have no time or respect for. Trolls. That was a great post though.

 

[Rob92]

What has Evo-Web come to?...

A few months ago you could have proper discussions about your experience of the game (PES 2011 anyway), and constructively criticise aspects of it in a sensible manner.

Now, any such posts seem to just be drowned out by the "PES 2012 is shit/scripted/etc" bandwagon brigade or a barrage of WENB bashing...

 

[Northzzz]

The fact we have nothing to do with working on gameplay doesn't mean we don't (as a community) have any influence on gameplay as a whole. So hopefully the recent quote clears up previous quotes.

Then do something in terms of influencing the gameplay.

I'd suggest reading the actual points people raise in this thread and stop getting into arguments over unnecessary things because you feel like WENB's ego has been bruised.

 

[curdstar]

It amuses me that people waste their time visiting a forum to bicker and argue about a video game, I mean come on lads... seriously.... you have nothing better to do?
It also bewilders me, that people who confess they have 'had it' with PES and have traded it in or snapped the disc up or whatever, still feel the need to frequent forums to rant about a product that they apparently hate. If you dont like the game and dont play it anymore, why still rant here and there and everywhere? I think its more of a case that those people just have an underlying urge to NEED to be heard, rather than providing any constructive feedback of the said product.

As for Adam & WENB in general, i visit lots of forums, WEB included, and Adam does get alot of ill-worded, almost demanding queries/comments/questions etc and it can be hard to deal with those kind of people in a patient constructive way all the time, BUT ....... and this is coming from someone in their 30's, whos well educated and has played football professionally and played footy video games since they were invented... and also as a purely unbiased, neautral person who just wants PES to evolve into the best possible version of the game we can have.
So with that said ... from a NEUTRAL view pointg, some of the replies, statements etc from various people on the WENB forums do come across from time to time as a little 'God Like' ... 'what we say goes and if you disagree then thats not an opinion thats a slur on WENB' type approach.... which is a shame as everyone seems to forget the guys at WENB also just want the best for PES thats why they do what they do and get involved as much as they do, without pay or profit, because they are fans of the series too - but that doesnt grant license to act holier than thou' and speak down to the people that in effect, keep the site going. No forum, No community, no WENB as such. Same for any PES fan site.

WENB need to take a little look at how they respond to people who only want information, and portray a bit more of a 'community spirit' and people who 'demand' info from Adam,Alan et al need to learn how to communicate in an effective and respectful manner.

Just my two cents worth.

Fair criticism there, I'll pass that on.

Then do something in terms of influencing the gameplay.

I'd suggest reading the actual points people raise in this thread and stop getting into arguments over unnecessary things because you feel like WENB's ego has been bruised.

I do read points here, I think it's clear I've been very selective with what criticism I respond to. And I find it hardly fair to blame me solely for the arguments that ensue, but I take your point.

And we will influence the gameplay, as a community.

 

[Jamezinho]

So when can we expect the first PES2013 news or info? It's supposed to be earlier this year. If I remember right, a couple of years ago (can't remember if it was the run-up to PES2010 or 2011) we received the first info as early as April?

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I think it's harsh calling someone a troll if they say they think the game is scripted. Some of us have voiced our dislike for PES2012 but still come on here because occasionally there's a bit of good discussion about how the series might move forward. I don't own the latest PES any more but I'm still interested in the series in general, and occasionally this thread sometimes deviates towards PES2013 which can be interesting.

For what it's worth I'm loving the Wii version, it's great. By contrast I have nothing but contempt for the latest PES and yeah, IMO, the scripted behaviour. It's not exclusive to 2012 though, my recent experiences back on PES2011 have shown up how rampant the scripting can be on that too.

I get to the final CL group match and need a draw at Panathanikos. Nine of my team are on purple arrows for no reason and most of theirs on red or yellow. Hmm. I then lose the match thanks to a penalty awarded because a CPU player ran into my defender about ten yards OFF the ball. Bad collision detection you may say, but it ever ever happened in my favour. Ever. I then pull the game back to 1-1 late on but back comes the CPU, clearly determined that I'm not going through, by making my keeper auto kick the ball but completely miss it for no reason, and handing the CPU with an open goal from 3 yards.

So yeah I still think scripting is rampant, it's the CPU calculating a best chance of winning and is done so as a lazy, poor and cheap way of programming to try and simulate game difficulty. I've simply had enough of next gen PES now.

Hopefully the next version will be different. But on a more positive note, if anyone has a Wii, get PES for it. The gameplay is far superior.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I think it's harsh calling someone a troll if they say they think the game is scripted. Some of us have voiced our dislike for PES2012 but still come on here because occasionally there's a bit of good discussion about how the series might move forward. I don't own the latest PES any more but I'm still interested in the series in general, and occasionally this thread sometimes deviates towards PES2013 which can be interesting.

For what it's worth I'm loving the Wii version, it's great. By contrast I have nothing but contempt for the latest PES and yeah, IMO, the scripted behaviour. It's not exclusive to 2012 though, my recent experiences back on PES2011 have shown up how rampant the scripting can be on that too.

I get to the final CL group match and need a draw at Panathanikos. Nine of my team are on purple arrows for no reason and most of theirs on red or yellow. Hmm. I then lose the match thanks to a penalty awarded because a CPU player ran into my defender about ten yards OFF the ball. Bad collision detection you may say, but it ever ever happened in my favour. Ever. I then pull the game back to 1-1 late on but back comes the CPU, clearly determined that I'm not going through, by making my keeper auto kick the ball but completely miss it for no reason, and handing the CPU with an open goal from 3 yards.

So yeah I still think scripting is rampant, it's the CPU calculating a best chance of winning and is done so as a lazy, poor and cheap way of programming to try and simulate game difficulty. I've simply had enough of next gen PES now.

Hopefully the next version will be different. But on a more positive note, if anyone has a Wii, get PES for it. The gameplay is far superior.

Is it worth buying a Wii though if you have PES 3, 5 & 6 still in the collection?

 

[AntrAcsA]

Silly to say TROLL to everyone who not happy or does not like the game. Even if you say something more, troll is that who likes the game, it more harm.
PES 2012 has good things, so even more there are things not ok and should get better. Everyone is entitled to post.

 

[xPJRx]

Certainly not trying to speak on behalf of Jimmy here, but by 'Troll' I doubt he is referring to the majority of people who post on here, just the few that constantly spout their hate for the game yet provide no suggestions on how to improve it or offer any constructive feedback.

Peoples opinions will always differ, on most subjects in life, thats human nature, and the whole point of internet forums - open honest healthy debate, sharing of opinions.

On that note .... Whilst being far from 'perfect' is PES 2012 really in such a sorry shit state?
If there had been NO previous PES/ISS games at all and Konami brought PES12 out as a brand new title to compete with FIFA this year, would you all still think its shit?
My point is, The PES titles that were on the PS2 are revered in such a way that garners them cult status, the pinnacle of football gaming. And great they were,but its not 2005 anymore, things have moved on.
I dont think that its a case of PES being completely shit nowadays, just that the PES of PS2 days was considerably ahead of anything around at that time, today its not.

Iwouldnt expect any PES13 news before March at the earliest, and will be interesting to see how Konami handle the launch of the PES13 news,l I feel they need something 'big' right off the bat to capture attention, rather than small drip feeding of bits and pieces like last year. Shock & Awe tactics.

 

[pj_puttz]

Certainly not trying to speak on behalf of Jimmy here, but by 'Troll' I doubt he is referring to the majority of people who post on here, just the few that constantly spout their hate for the game yet provide no suggestions on how to improve it or offer any constructive feedback.

Peoples opinions will always differ, on most subjects in life, thats human nature, and the whole point of internet forums - open honest healthy debate, sharing of opinions.

On that note .... Whilst being far from 'perfect' is PES 2012 really in such a sorry shit state?
If there had been NO previous PES/ISS games at all and Konami brought PES12 out as a brand new title to compete with FIFA this year, would you all still think its shit?
My point is, The PES titles that were on the PS2 are revered in such a way that garners them cult status, the pinnacle of football gaming. And great they were,but its not 2005 anymore, things have moved on.
I dont think that its a case of PES being completely shit nowadays, just that the PES of PS2 days was considerably ahead of anything around at that time, today its not.

Iwouldnt expect any PES13 news before March at the earliest, and will be interesting to see how Konami handle the launch of the PES13 news,l I feel they need something 'big' right off the bat to capture attention, rather than small drip feeding of bits and pieces like last year. Shock & Awe tactics.

Jimmy has called me a troll, among other things, simply for disagreeing with him so you definitely dont speak for him.

To answer your question, yes I personally think PES is in a shit state and even if it was the first football game to have been released on any platform for the last 10 years I would still hold the same opinion. It's so fundamentally flawed it is almost impossible to enjoy in any way. I'm not going to get into why all over again as it would only be repeating what myself and others have said over and over again on this thread.

What worries me more than PES 2012 being crap is Konami seeming to have no clear direction or way forward for PES. The "evolution" has disappeared and for every one step forward they seem to take three steps back, even the forward steps (like Football Life) are really badly implemented. The whole PES concept seems to have gone down the toilet on next gen and I'm worried not just because last year's game is shit but because I fear for the entire future of PES.

I'm sure Konami (and certain other people who shall remain nameless) will attempt to wow us all with promises about how amazing PES 2013 will be this year and I'm sure more than a few people will fall for it but I've heard it all too many times before.

Like I said earlier, I'll be renting the game first from now on before I decide to buy it. No amount of fancy PR or promises from Konami will change that.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

On that note .... Whilst being far from 'perfect' is PES 2012 really in such a sorry shit state?
If there had been NO previous PES/ISS games at all and Konami brought PES12 out as a brand new title to compete with FIFA this year, would you all still think its shit?

Really odd way of looking at things, So your saying we should tell ourselves that there has never been any PES games or ISS games and we should look as if PES 2012 is a brand new game that Konami have just brought out to make it look better than it actually is?? lol TBH i'd still think it's average! Codemasters brought out Club Football a few years ago which there had been none previous games and it was pretty average and PES 2012 is in the same ball park as that game.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Is it worth buying a Wii though if you have PES 3, 5 & 6 still in the collection?

I wouldn't buy a Wii just to play this game, no. It's a fun game and feels very similar to PES6 but more considered and much slower. The new controls are fun to use but I doubt PES purists will like it that much.

But, the keyword is fun. It's fun. Just not worth buying a console over, particularly if you don't like poor graphics.

 

[xPJRx]

Jimmy has called me a troll, among other things, simply for disagreeing with him so you definitely dont speak for him.

To answer your question, yes I personally think PES is in a shit state and even if it was the first football game to have been released on any platform for the last 10 years I would still hold the same opinion. It's so fundamentally flawed it is almost impossible to enjoy in any way. I'm not going to get into why all over again as it would only be repeating what myself and others have said over and over again on this thread.

What worries me more than PES 2012 being crap is Konami seeming to have no clear direction or way forward for PES. The "evolution" has disappeared and for every one step forward they seem to take three steps back, even the forward steps (like Football Life) are really badly implemented. The whole PES concept seems to have gone down the toilet on next gen and I'm worried not just because last year's game is shit but because I fear for the entire future of PES.

I'm sure Konami (and certain other people who shall remain nameless) will attempt to wow us all with promises about how amazing PES 2013 will be this year and I'm sure more than a few people will fall for it but I've heard it all too many times before.

Like I said earlier, I'll be renting the game first from now on before I decide to buy it. No amount of fancy PR or promises from Konami will change that.

PJ, i agree with alot you have said there mate, I do still play PES12 alot and enjoy it but it also frustrates, and infuriates me in equal measures.
I agree that we heard alot of hype last year about this being 'the year' and what we got in many respects was a poorly implemented, almost rushed/unfinished feeling in certain aspects of the game, so im in the same mindset as you, i wont believe anything or get too excited by all the hype this year until Ive played the game myself and made my own opinion up.

Really odd way of looking at things, So your saying we should tell ourselves that there has never been any PES games or ISS games and we should look as if PES 2012 is a brand new game that Konami have just brought out to make it look better than it actually is?? lol TBH i'd still think it's average! Codemasters brought out Club Football a few years ago which there had been none previous games and it was pretty average and PES 2012 is in the same ball park as that game

I never said to look at it like that Flaw3d, to forget there were ever any other PES games, I was simply trying to get a feel of whether or not people actually thought this game in itself was poor or poor compared to what we have had previously or poor because there hasnt been many if any strides forward over the last few years, thats all.
I remember Codemaster Club Football, i bought the Liverpool branded version, it was awful!!!!

 

[Jamezinho]

I never said to look at it like that Flaw3d, to forget there were ever any other PES games, I was simply trying to get a feel of whether or not people actually thought this game in itself was poor or poor compared to what we have had previously or poor because there hasnt been many if any strides forward over the last few years, thats all.
I remember Codemaster Club Football, i bought the Liverpool branded version, it was awful!!!!

To me it's poor on three levels. Poor compared to its predecessor (PES2011), poor compared to last generation PES, and poor compared to the general standard of games these days.

Not just compared to Fifa, which is technically on another level, but up against the likes of Battlefield 3, Forza 4, Uncharted 3......PES2012 is like playing a game on an ageing, inferior console.

 

[shoemaker]

i agree with jamezinho like. some much of this game is stuck in a timewarp somewhere. it felt horrible when i tried to play it again last night on master league. its not been the same since pes6.

 

[pj_puttz]

To me it's poor on three levels. Poor compared to its predecessor (PES2011), poor compared to last generation PES, and poor compared to the general standard of games these days.

Not just compared to Fifa, which is technically on another level, but up against the likes of Battlefield 3, Forza 4, Uncharted 3......PES2012 is like playing a game on an ageing, inferior console.

Agreed mate.

If you forget it's a football game for a moment (because our love of football can cloud our judgement slightly sometimes) and look at the component parts of PES 2012 it really is a poor game by today's standards.

The AI, the graphics, the unresponsive controls, the entire front end, the lack of gameplay options, the very limited online mode, the poorly implemented Master League and other modes they refuse to change in any significant way, the poor quality animations, the random "form" arrows, the blatant AI cheating and the general half-baked feel of the entire game just does not give a next-gen gaming experience at all. I've played more enjoyable games on my Commodore 16 FFS.

It's not just a poor football game, it's a poor game overall.

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

Might be a reflection on the sorry state of the game. There's nothing much left to say about it so let's all start fighting about nothing in particular.

To be honest, this place would be dead if PES and FIFA weren't football games. It's only the fact that they're football, which is so popular, that keeps people interested. If they were rugby games or some such, and weren't very good games at that, they'd just get ignored totally rather than people feeling the need to come here and express themselves.

I think the haters (of the games) keep returning to moan because they are frustrated. We all desperately want a great football game and it's just not being delivered, so people are just hanging around forlornly, taking comfort in other sharing similar opinions and frustrations.

For God's sake, somebody, please bring us a good football game!

I think a lot of us are just fed up with how poor PES is and fed up reading comments from certain people on here who dont know how to have a proper debate without labelling people "trolls" or some other such net-speak nonsense just because they hold a different view from their own.

+1

These are nice postings jimmy, unlike yours basically sayin this:

 

[Ektor70]

yap, just a poor package stuck in the stoneage of gaming...not a single part of the game feels up to the standard for the current generation.

Call me a noob or a troll, i truly enjoy playing uncharted, batman, nba2k, rdr, god of war and some dlc. Could not get to play 3 games in a row of pes 2012. The costant feeling was "why am i playing such an outdated sluggish ugly looking game where i can't even decide where to shoot".

Game is challenging but has no depth at all. Force you to play in very limited ways and it is a very repetitive experience.