The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Flaw3d Genius]

Flaw3d in your signature you don't have ShollyM PES6. Wondering how you would rate that.

For me, the best football game ever made with gameplay v2... Forget about FIFA or new Pro games. PES6 still has magic I like to rediscover. Sure it's old and you can see it, but some things are untouchable by new series (stamina when used up, player can't pass correctly or shoot on target... Ah nostalgia ).

But PES 2012 despite being wrong in some ways, offers fun. On PC where u can mod it so much, it can become even great, but why the hell must modders like jenkey/yair make up for what KONAMI should have done?! This is wrong.

KONAMI need to sort their priorities out. I believe there is more football fans than Metal Gear Solid/Rising fans altogether and yet, KONAMI does not treat PES as number 1 title... :rolleyes:

Like I said above, FIFA core gameplay (ask Rutter too for confirmation) takes much from past Pro Evo titles. You can clearly feel and see it in FIFA 08-10. FIFA 11 took the step to go into SIM territory, FIFA 12 even improves on that. So those 2 are quite different and feel different. Pretty much like PES 2011 was... :/

So yeah, time to read those first 30 or 40 pages again, make a list of various proper opinions, make a Document file and send it to Murphy, WENB (even if you hate them, they might help out), KONAMI HQ in Japan (yes, they know English).

Maybe, just maybe, it will trigger positive reaction. This worked for FIFA, maybe it will work with PES series too

Yeah i kept thinking i had won PES 6 off of Ebay to get ShollyM patches, it looks incredible. Sadly these days im not computer savvy (getting old haha) and it looked pretty complicated on installing everything.

Might try and get on it after the new year as both Fifa 12 and PES 2012 bore me after a couple of game.

 

[romagnoli]

There is no doubt that the demise of PES has led to a demise in every forum, this forum is no different to the amount of complaints on other PES sites difference is on here people tend to see through peoples agenda's and speak up about it. One thing is for sure the PES community is nothing like what it was back in the day of the Pro Evo Network but again that's down to the game being so poor which has had a huge knock on effect.

Personally I'm saddened by the number of people trying to ride the coat tails of the good work this site and its community has done over the past few years.

There's no point bandying about pride in spotting agendas if you just call them out every time someone disagrees with you. That's like saying every day that it's going to rain and then acting smug when it does. For every time a genuine agenda is called out, like when we spotted Adam in here that time, there are fools who accuse people like me of an agenda just for disagreeing with crowd-pleasing but ultimately half baked logic.

There's a difference between being a good judge of ulterior motives and the McCarthy-lite finger pointing you get on any old site.

 

[Messiah Ban Victim]

Pes 6 was ok back then. I bought it again for my 360. And ok its miles better then 2008 -2012, when it comes to fun.

But there are so many things missing. And since pes 6 i offcially hate adriano, ;-). He was not adriano, but he was a mix of adriano, usain bolt, david copperfield and a rugby team.

No, we need a total new game. I want zero code from pes 2012, just start all over and use the systems hardware we have these days (just like any other game franchize). And never ever put scripting/ momemtum switches in any engine you will ever make for the rest of your life.

This engine/combination of engines is still ps2-ish. Thats 10 years ago. When you know this its no wonder this footy is heavily underpar comapaired to other games.

 

[henrys hand]

Regarding FIFA's AI, While it's rigid and it's not as aware because the lack of script as PES, when it comes to playing against the AI, FIFA has given me a lot of fun this year. The sliders have been very helpful, and to me local multiplayer and Manager mode are king. This year FIFA has achieved a much better game in those to areas.

PES has one thing I love and it's the tactical intricacies and you immediately see it's impact. This one of the few things PES needs to keep. Again PES should rethink it's game though. Every aspect. Sometimes things are much too obvious, sometimes the AI is to overpowering because of the scripts. I'd rather a fine tuned % game like FIFA than scripts.

Something that isn't mentioned about PES that I like, while it's graphic and not very important, it's the player models. At least in PC with/o the blur they look great and player are very identifiable from wide cam.

I see it similar: The AI of Fifa 12 is not very interesting, but at least it works without cheating nor scripts.

What I like more in PES 2012 besides playerfaces and general individuality is the use of the right stick to choose the players you want to play to during freekicks, throw-ins and corners. Love that feature.

Both games are far from reaching that magical spot that makes a game a classic, but I think EA is nearer to achieve that than Konami thanks to the headstart it has technically.

If EA indeed took romagnoli's feedback serious Fifa 13 or 14 could be very interesting.

As for Konami, we will have to wait and see if they really managed to create a new engine for PES 2013, and if rails, scripts/cheats, bad animation and mediocre ballphysics will be a thing of the past.

 

[info0]

Hmm in FIFA AI does not cheat? Really?

How long have you played FIFA series for? Asking seriously, since I have got all FIFAs on PC since version 98.

The new engine FIFA still has rubber band AI on higher than Semi-Pro difficulties and you can see it. Of course it's not as intimidating as in Pro Evo 2012, but it's there. I wrote huge article about that on soccergaming forums once.

The concept behind this is simple, human brain sees things AI can't see nor think of. If AI didn't have any advantage over user... Well, you would trash the game fast, that's why EA/KONAMI gave AI handicap.

On FIFA for example, Messi, one of the faster dribblers in game or Neymar - one of the fastest players in FIFA, get caught up by Swansea defenders even when they gain head start (check it out on Legendary difficulty without touching sliders). Plus AI in FIFA/PES rarely gets cards or fouls you. They are like perfect machines, inhuman.

Look at AI positioning in your team and in CPU team. You notice the difference staright away, their defense is unbreakable, they fill in the gaps, etc. your end? You have huge holes, easy to exploir, fullbacks going back... breaking the offside concept, wrong marking, etc.

Sure tactical defending helps this year, a bit, but it's still abusive system in right hands (and when you learn HOW to use contain + double contain). It's as effective as so called pressure whoring on FIFA 11 and prior :lol:

But I can give EA Sports a thumbs up, their series tries to improve each year and Pro Evo? I feel like it's stopped in 2005... and is in standstill .

It's a shame as when Pro Evo Soccer came to PC, I was excited. The king of football arrived and beat FIFA to pulp. This was it. This was how the football should be played, freedom (yes, scripted freedom ), passes, through balls, raids on flanks, etc. No goal looked similar, no action was the same. This is what I loved and love still.

But this is missing in every new PES. PES2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012... Can't offer what their grandpa offered...

FIFA is miles ahead, even when I treat FIFA 12 as failure (or more like beta/testbed for FIFA 13). FIFA 13 should be superb with feedback going on from all sides and believe it or not, Rutter is open for suggestions, listens to problems and eliminates them.

KONAMI should get a slap in face and wake up to new reality.

 

[romagnoli]

Info0 - I dont mean to contradict you, but those issues aren't down to scripting, or momentum. It's something that EA have had to come out and defend themselves against time and time again. They are all problems, and all of them can give the impression of scripting or bias in favour of the CPU, but they are not actually down to scripting. It's veering too far off topic here but it's a perfect example of issues which are not what they at first seem. Remember the AI can also see things the human can't, such as probability calculations, exactly how much the power bar needs to be charged for a cross, where their teammates are going to be in a fraction of a second, plus has far superior reaction times.

The disparity between how the human controlled side and the CPU side are able to play is responsible for so much online grief.

 

[arthurm]

Info0 - I dont mean to contradict you, but those issues aren't down to scripting, or momentum.

Are you suggesting that there's no such thing as momentum (ie. the game giving one team or the other all of the "luck" for periods during a match) written into the game (which happens both against the cpu and also in human v human matches, including 11v11 online)? And if so, are you saying that because EA have given an explanation for what happens? I would categorically dispute that there's no momentum, but if there's actually an explanation, I'd love to hear it.

 

[romagnoli]

Basically EA have been categorically denying for a few years now that any scripting of outcomes exists in next-gen FIFA. They've carried out internal audits (which anyone would tell you is a real pain in the arse) of the game code, looking specifically for any scripting or stat boosting, and come up with nothing. EA's devs, whenever we've talked to them face to face or over the phone, have talked exasperatedly about the whole scripting thing as well. There's also the fact that Gary Paterson, who was given the lead programmer and then creative director roles from 08 onwards, actually made his name at EA after handing in a white paper about how the future of FIFA had to be unscripted. in previous FIFAs such as the PS2 days, aerial battles and the like would be predetermined so they could use a nice animation etc. but that takes the drama and excitement out of the experience, something Gary wanted the game to have.

Again, I completely agree that there's stuff in FIFA that feels scripted. But EA will pretty much blank any feedback complaining about scripting simply because they know for a fact it isn't true. You don't have to believe them (and I'm not saying that in an accusatory way) but the longer people are hung up about the idea of scripting, something more sinister than changing attack/defence levels, the longer the problems that come across as scripting will stay in the game.

 

[Ameppe]

Flaw3d in your signature you don't have ShollyM PES6. Wondering how you would rate that.

For me, the best football game ever made with gameplay v2... Forget about FIFA or new Pro games. PES6 still has magic I like to rediscover. Sure it's old and you can see it, but some things are untouchable by new series (stamina when used up, player can't pass correctly or shoot on target... Ah nostalgia ).

But PES 2012 despite being wrong in some ways, offers fun. On PC where u can mod it so much, it can become even great, but why the hell must modders like jenkey/yair make up for what KONAMI should have done?! This is wrong.

KONAMI need to sort their priorities out. I believe there is more football fans than Metal Gear Solid/Rising fans altogether and yet, KONAMI does not treat PES as number 1 title... :rolleyes:

Like I said above, FIFA core gameplay (ask Rutter too for confirmation) takes much from past Pro Evo titles. You can clearly feel and see it in FIFA 08-10. FIFA 11 took the step to go into SIM territory, FIFA 12 even improves on that. So those 2 are quite different and feel different. Pretty much like PES 2011 was... :/

So yeah, time to read those first 30 or 40 pages again, make a list of various proper opinions, make a Document file and send it to Murphy, WENB (even if you hate them, they might help out), KONAMI HQ in Japan (yes, they know English).

Maybe, just maybe, it will trigger positive reaction. This worked for FIFA, maybe it will work with PES series too

i started to do this and unsurprisingly most complaints are about cheating AI, cpu pressure too high in tournaments and ML, too much need to use super cancel to freely move our player

 

[info0]

Is that all input people have? Seriously?

Not surprised one bit then. Guess you need help with proper problem report...

Wondering if someone is willing to help write one?

 

[Ameppe]

Is that all input people have? Seriously?

Not surprised one bit then. Guess you need help with proper problem report...

Wondering if someone is willing to help write one?

no, those are just the first 10 pages

 

[Shikashi]

For you to say things are factually wrong, that statement you've just made is factually wrong as well. Believe me, those two games couldn't be further apart from each other in the gameplay department.

You're right. I meant to say something else.

 

[arthurm]

Basically EA have been categorically denying for a few years now that any scripting of outcomes exists in next-gen FIFA. They've carried out internal audits (which anyone would tell you is a real pain in the arse) of the game code, looking specifically for any scripting or stat boosting, and come up with nothing. EA's devs, whenever we've talked to them face to face or over the phone, have talked exasperatedly about the whole scripting thing as well. There's also the fact that Gary Paterson, who was given the lead programmer and then creative director roles from 08 onwards, actually made his name at EA after handing in a white paper about how the future of FIFA had to be unscripted. in previous FIFAs such as the PS2 days, aerial battles and the like would be predetermined so they could use a nice animation etc. but that takes the drama and excitement out of the experience, something Gary wanted the game to have.

Again, I completely agree that there's stuff in FIFA that feels scripted. But EA will pretty much blank any feedback complaining about scripting simply because they know for a fact it isn't true. You don't have to believe them (and I'm not saying that in an accusatory way) but the longer people are hung up about the idea of scripting, something more sinister than changing attack/defence levels, the longer the problems that come across as scripting will stay in the game.

I think people's definition of what scripting is varies. I can comfortably accept there's no scripting in the sense that entire passages of play unfold with a predetermined outcome and every action performed along the path to reaching that outcome is also predetermined.

However, momentum is a very different thing. Also, the 45th/90th minute goal scenario is a very close relation to momentum, if not literally the same programming technique. It is very clear that the "engine" changes to increase the likelihood of goals being scored in the last minute of each half, particularly by the cpu, but also by the human controlled team. Both FIFA and PES are equally guilty of this. I would argue that is scripted - the frame by frame action isn't scripted, but the certainty that the probabilities in the game are altered in last couple of minutes to increase the likelihood of last minutes goals is predetermined and happens in every match.

If EA have another take on that, then I'm all ears.

 

[Jamezinho]

The only case of blatant scripting I've noticed in Fifa is the high number of free kicks the CPU will score. This may not even be classed as scripting as it occurs regardless of whether the CPU is winning or losing.

 

[Lons]

The only case of blatant scripting I've noticed in Fifa is the high number of free kicks the CPU will score. This may not even be classed as scripting as it occurs regardless of whether the CPU is winning or losing.

When i play FIFA i feel all the time interference CPU! When i score a goal i feel the same :Interference CPU. This is a reason why FIFA is big shit for me. I played FIFA in 1995/96/97 and in 2008 when FIFA 08 was released with new engine and for me feeling is exactly the same but tech was changed.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I saw Puss In Boots last night at Darlington Civic Theatre. Man, that was scripted. Yet strangely, there were no goals.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I saw Puss In Boots last night at Darlington Civic Theatre. Man, that was scripted. Yet strangely, there were no goals.

Puss in boots eh? Lucky you, Was it as scripted as good as PES 2012 though?

 

[freak08]

when AI has "long ball" set as the tactic, I play tennis is the pitch. Then I have to concentrate only on having possession rather attacking.

 

[Ektor70]

Since i bought a new laptop i went as far as trying out the pc version of the game with the "no blur" patch and a couple of gameplay patches.

I found it much worse than the ps3 version actually. The no blur makes the visual look even more outdated and players model in movement looks even poorer (so the motion blur actually helps the game). Gameplay patches made the game even more dull.

so i guess after a good football year with pes 2011 i'll just wait for the 2013 version. Still i bought a ps3 mainly for pes, i guess i'll better think it over for the ps4, no need to have a 400 euros machine for a game i don't really enjoy anymore.

 

[pj_puttz]

Only around 41 weeks to go until PES 2013! WHOO HOO!

Anyone excited yet? Nah me neither.

Try before you buy is my PES motto this year. My trust in Konami is at an all time low so I will no longer automatically buy the latest incarnation of Pro Evo on release day. Never thought I'd see the day to be honest.

I stuck on PES 2012 twice over the Xmas and New Year holidays, both times I managed about 3 games before switching it off again. Same old story.

Yes I'm back and I'm just as miserable in 2012 as I was in 2011.

Happy New Year to you all!

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

My trust in Konami is at an all time low so I will no longer automatically buy the latest incarnation of Pro Evo on release day. Never thought I'd see the day to be honest.

im doing this since pes 010
still bought all of em, classic patch and gameplay patches make it playable, online BAL 011 was quite fun..
try it

 

[Jamezinho]

Only around 41 weeks to go until PES 2013! WHOO HOO!

Anyone excited yet? Nah me neither.

Try before you buy is my PES motto this year. My trust in Konami is at an all time low so I will no longer automatically buy the latest incarnation of Pro Evo on release day. Never thought I'd see the day to be honest.

I stuck on PES 2012 twice over the Xmas and New Year holidays, both times I managed about 3 games before switching it off again. Same old story.

Yes I'm back and I'm just as miserable in 2012 as I was in 2011.

Happy New Year to you all!

I'm certainly not excited yet. As you said, try before you buy is the way forward. PES2012 was a waste of money. I've not played it for over a month.

The talk of a new engine does give me some hope. There certainly seems to be substance to the rumour, i.e. it's not come from wenb. But, I will need to see from the very first video that this game has changed and is based on new tech otherwise I'm not sure I will bother with PES2013 at all.

 

[pj_puttz]

We cant even trust the demo to be a good indication of what the final product will be like anymore so nothing is going to change my mind about my "try before you buy" policy for PES this year. I will be renting the game when it hits the shelves, then and only then will I make the decision whether to buy it or not. The days where I trusted Konami to deliver at least a decent football game for me to play solidly for 12 months have gone. PES 2012 made sure of that.

PES2012 was a waste of money. I've not played it for over a month.

I could not agree more with that statement. The only thing that will make Konami get their act together is poor sales figures, cold hard cash is the only thing any company truly understands. They could not care less about our feedback so long as we've already bought the game.

I hope a lot of people try before they buy this year because I want Konami to have our collective boot placed firmly up their arse this year. They've been coasting along on former glories for far too long now.

 

[Ektor70]

After selling the piss poor ps3 version i muyself tried the pc version with some tools. I managed to find some fun using pes 2010 broadcast camera, the game on pc also looks significantly better. I first tried some gameplay patches but i found them absolute rubbish (players seem to skate). I then went back to the original 1.03 version and overall the gameplay with small teams is actually fairly decent. As soon as u get a major team the scripting and the 9 players in the box are back and the game is a pile of s.

Still the feeling of playing and outdated product and the absolute boredom from the ML cutscenes and other issues here and there eventually got me to disinstall the game. Quite frankly i still get more fun with pes5 and pes 2011 on line (now very good since only a few decent players still play it).

overall most disappointing game of the year for me.

 

[Northzzz]

I updated Jenkey's gameplay tool yesterday (after a month of both forum and PES absence) and the gameplay seems to have been improved significantly. Speed is obviously a personally preference and i likes mine quite slowish to allow conservative build-up but he seems to included an animation boost (which i put on +2) which makes the game look more fluid, it feels more like Fifa but has none of the ridiculous Fifa turning circles. I managed to play around with the physics too and the ball feels far far weighter, i haven't seen any of those stupid floaty shots again yet. I actually played through 3 games and was left wanting to play more (but soon found it was 3am so i decided to stop). That's generally something that has never happened whilst playing PES 2012. By the third game i'm always left pissed off about something.

This kind of draws me to my point. PES 2012 is still a poor game out of the box and i know many of you don't have the privilege of playing on PC but in truth it helps a lot. I simply couldn't play on console i'm sorry to say. Konami themselves do not do a good enough job. What the gameplay mod won't do is remedy some of the bigger issues which the game that still stand out.
a) Speed. There's simply no sense of speed to players. They have two variations, jogging and running. Both are always the same speed, it should be more dynamic. You get absolutely no sense of speed even with fast players when running off the ball chasing onto a loose ball.
B) Scripted player reaction. It's pretty much a downright awful. Frankly i've given up using the through ball button (both lob and on ground). The way your player feels like a force of physics is pushing them in one direction that you cannot control (always a direction that will allow a defender to get to the ball first if he's within 5 yards of your player) is bad for a game alluding to any sense of freedom. I know there's super-cancel but it doesn't work well in all situations.
C) Shooting is screwed up. Playing in the almost first person camera you can see how when one v one there's no ability to aim in the corners. Most shots are automatically aimed towards the centre of goal. It's odd.
D) The AI is pretty poor at attacking. They seem to either put 90% of one v ones wide or right at my keeper. They also never seem to take a touch in the box even when they have time. They always opt to shoot first time and if you've ever tried to do that when attacking you know why it rarely ever works out. Likewise when they defend and you close them down they will put the ball into row Z for no reason even when numerous other options are open. Sometimes they just run the ball out of touch when you're pressuring them. I think the CPU AI has a hard time weighing up potential options if you block more than 2 of them.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I updated Jenkey's gameplay tool yesterday (after a month of both forum and PES absence) and the gameplay seems to have been improved significantly. Speed is obviously a personally preference and i likes mine quite slowish to allow conservative build-up but he seems to included an animation boost (which i put on +2) which makes the game look more fluid, it feels more like Fifa but has none of the ridiculous Fifa turning circles. I managed to play around with the physics too and the ball feels far far weighter, i haven't seen any of those stupid floaty shots again yet. I actually played through 3 games and was left wanting to play more (but soon found it was 3am so i decided to stop). That's generally something that has never happened whilst playing PES 2012. By the third game i'm always left pissed off about something.

This kind of draws me to my point. PES 2012 is still a poor game out of the box and i know many of you don't have the privilege of playing on PC but in truth it helps a lot. I simply couldn't play on console i'm sorry to say. Konami themselves do not do a good enough job. What the gameplay mod won't do is remedy some of the bigger issues which the game that still stand out.
a) Speed. There's simply no sense of speed to players. They have two variations, jogging and running. Both are always the same speed, it should be more dynamic. You get absolutely no sense of speed even with fast players when running off the ball chasing onto a loose ball.
B) Scripted player reaction. It's pretty much a downright awful. Frankly i've given up using the through ball button (both lob and on ground). The way your player feels like a force of physics is pushing them in one direction that you cannot control (always a direction that will allow a defender to get to the ball first if he's within 5 yards of your player) is bad for a game alluding to any sense of freedom. I know there's super-cancel but it doesn't work well in all situations.
C) Shooting is screwed up. Playing in the almost first person camera you can see how when one v one there's no ability to aim in the corners. Most shots are automatically aimed towards the centre of goal. It's odd.
D) The AI is pretty poor at attacking. They seem to either put 90% of one v ones wide or right at my keeper. They also never seem to take a touch in the box even when they have time. They always opt to shoot first time and if you've ever tried to do that when attacking you know why it rarely ever works out. Likewise when they defend and you close them down they will put the ball into row Z for no reason even when numerous other options are open. Sometimes they just run the ball out of touch when you're pressuring them. I think the CPU AI has a hard time weighing up potential options if you block more than 2 of them.

Are you able to put a vid up of the game mate? Would love to see it running with good animations.

Everything that i have read points to PES on PC being the only way to enjoy the series now.

 

[P34SEMM]

PES13 has to have a total make over for me to even contemplate buying it.
PES12 was awful and PES11 bores me.

Glad I got MW3 for Xmas!

 

[pj_puttz]

Everything that i have read points to PES on PC being the only way to enjoy the series now.

Yeah and even that is only possible thanks to people painstakingly modding the game to make it playable.

How utterly ridiculous is that? A huge global company like Konami with decades of experience and thousands of man hours at their disposal shown how to do it properly by some guy sitting in his bedroom tweaking the code in his spare time.

Fucking embarrassing.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Yeah and even that is only possible thanks to people painstakingly modding the game to make it playable.

How utterly ridiculous is that? A huge global company like Konami with decades of experience and thousands of man hours at their disposal shown how to do it properly by some guy sitting in his bedroom tweaking the code in his spare time.

Fucking embarrassing.

Surly it would make alot more sense to get Jenkey on board for PES rather than's WENB's Adam?

 

[ImpossibleYesbutitsTrue]

even with all the editing on pc version there are so many poor moments..

to all u guys playing it on consoles, congrats lol