The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread
- Thread starter priskinsprick
- Start date
Who is the ''Konami exec'', exactly? More conspiracy theories based on not one iota of truth. I also see that your expertise in the industry hasn't told you that what some know is not something that can be shared and detailed immediately upon hearing.
I don't need you to believe anything I say as all you are is just incredibly bitter. Still, it won't stop you heading to our front page, listen to our podcasts or lurk our forums
How does it feel knowing the ones you hate so much are fully aware that you will always be keeping tabs on what we do?
Now that is arrogant...but it is also true
You tell me who the quotes came from, you're the one who posted them! If it wasn't a Konami employee who was it? The milkman? Seasbass' dog walker? Or is that top secret information too? What is the point of your special "level of access" if you cant tell anyone anything you're told?
How about you tell me a few things you had inside knowledge of in the past? Give me a few examples of how your "level of access" granted you the foresight to accurately predict anything in any PES game? Or are your predictions limited to saying things like "OMG! PES IS GOING TO BE AMAZING THIS YEAR!" every single year? Like every other excitable kid who can read a press release?
You use words like "bitter" and "hate" but I'm afraid you're simply not important enough to stir those kind of strong emotions in me Curd. You're merely a figure of fun to me. I'm sorry if that bruises your huge ego.
You wont find me on your front page or anywhere near any of the other bullshit you produce. It was YOU who came to this forum mate. I didn't come to you, you came to me.
Off you pop now back to your bubble where you can tell all the kids how you "really showed those idiots over at Evo Web". I'm sure they'll massage your ego back to health.
If not you can always ban them, right?
Yes please go. And this a not happy with pes 2012 thread for nothing! I think people here love pes and want it to return to the glory days. What they don't want is hype, where and when it is not warranted. People are always going to explore the web looking for news on pes because they have a soft spot for the game. So that will mean from time to time people look at wenb.
Again, what people don't want is hype, because it can potentially lead to disappointment, like the the last 5 years. And yes their are people playing pes and enjoying, but their is know denying that pes has been in decline for many years and is struggling.
I dislike the game too but not because of wenb but because it is underwhelming. That is all! I'll say it again, what I don't like is hype,
It's simple this is how looks to me and probably a few others, if koanmi have a commercial interest in the a website like wenb, how can the website produce reliable non-biased information? How could they possibly critisize konami when wenb are in bed with the company?
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
Personally I don't read WENB and never have but it seems to me that, yes, a lot of these almost conspiracy ideas are unfounded, no, WENB doesn't really have any influence on the game, and no, WENB isn't remotely responsible for the output of Konami's game over the years. To me, this is a given.
However, I can understand where these ideas are coming from because all I ever seem to read, on here and other forums, is about the alarming regularity that people are banned for stating opinions deemed negative against the game. Now, like I said, I haven't seen it first hand so I can't say that's 100% fact, but the number of times I've read people complaining about being systematically banned for not liking the game indicates that either there is some bizarre PR screening going on, or, and which I think is most likely, that there is NO PR screening but astonishingly juvenile behaviour by whoever runs the WENB board. Forums are for open debate and if that isn't happening over at WENB then you just gave to take it that the admin of that board cannot take argument in any adult fashion.
Just sayin' like.
However, I can understand where these ideas are coming from because all I ever seem to read, on here and other forums, is about the alarming regularity that people are banned for stating opinions deemed negative against the game. Now, like I said, I haven't seen it first hand so I can't say that's 100% fact, but the number of times I've read people complaining about being systematically banned for not liking the game indicates that either there is some bizarre PR screening going on, or, and which I think is most likely, that there is NO PR screening but astonishingly juvenile behaviour by whoever runs the WENB board. Forums are for open debate and if that isn't happening over at WENB then you just gave to take it that the admin of that board cannot take argument in any adult fashion.
Just sayin' like.
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
They came from PSM3. One from a podcast and one from a piece in their latest issue which was in an editorial piece. No Konami execs responsible. I don't need to elaborate on why I am able to see that there is more to it than mere speculation. Just wait...or don't.
I came to this forum but not to you. I have a decent rapport with some folks in these parts and enter into various discussions regards the game.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
I think it's just the second.
info0
Banned
But people moan here all the time, saying how bad the game is, ok, it's bad.
So give valid input at least on HOW to make it better. Not in do this, do that nonsense bullshit, please.
You see, being a programmer partially, you should know how game works. All you do is say fix goalkeepers. Ok they can do it in various ways... So let's see valid input would be: "The keepers are reacting well to middle air/high kicked balls, but have problems in ground shots and shots going into the center of the net. Can you recify the problem."
This is it. Telling them to add animations at this stage? Are you insane? Never going to happen. This input may be used in next version of the game though (capture more Goalkeeper animations IRL asking top notch keeper as MoCap device
).
What do we have next, defense. I can see that they are improved in AI team. Actually they are v. good, rarely making mistakes, but in your side, they stray off position too often, so maybe balance it better? The attackers in my team don't see for open channels like they do in AI team, again, can you look at this?
^- those things above are the things I would consider first to listen to. Because those opinions are thoughtful and not raging with hatred or nonsense ideas.
Such input goes for every game and not only PES/FIFA. Who would you rather listen to? Some idiot fan with NO clue about what he is talking about or someone who played the game, sees positives as well as negatives and SEES how you can improve the game?
If you're true FAN as you think you are, BE respectful and THOUGHTFUL and your words might get to KONAMI.
All you seem to say is PES is crap. Give proper reasons. Explain. Find solution how to fix them using CURRENT engine. Do you see positives in game? (I do)
So what curd said is not only PES fanboy opinion. He made valid points which you have laughed. So much for open minded community. More like hatred living on hate community around here. :lol:
So give valid input at least on HOW to make it better. Not in do this, do that nonsense bullshit, please.
You see, being a programmer partially, you should know how game works. All you do is say fix goalkeepers. Ok they can do it in various ways... So let's see valid input would be: "The keepers are reacting well to middle air/high kicked balls, but have problems in ground shots and shots going into the center of the net. Can you recify the problem."
This is it. Telling them to add animations at this stage? Are you insane? Never going to happen. This input may be used in next version of the game though (capture more Goalkeeper animations IRL asking top notch keeper as MoCap device
).What do we have next, defense. I can see that they are improved in AI team. Actually they are v. good, rarely making mistakes, but in your side, they stray off position too often, so maybe balance it better? The attackers in my team don't see for open channels like they do in AI team, again, can you look at this?
^- those things above are the things I would consider first to listen to. Because those opinions are thoughtful and not raging with hatred or nonsense ideas.
Such input goes for every game and not only PES/FIFA. Who would you rather listen to? Some idiot fan with NO clue about what he is talking about or someone who played the game, sees positives as well as negatives and SEES how you can improve the game?
If you're true FAN as you think you are, BE respectful and THOUGHTFUL and your words might get to KONAMI.
All you seem to say is PES is crap. Give proper reasons. Explain. Find solution how to fix them using CURRENT engine. Do you see positives in game? (I do)
So what curd said is not only PES fanboy opinion. He made valid points which you have laughed. So much for open minded community. More like hatred living on hate community around here. :lol:
So you cant give me any examples of how your special "level of access" has helped you accurately predict ANYTHING in the past then? The parts of my posts you ignore say more about you than the parts you respond to.
So far your quoted "sources" have been nothing more than an article from PSM3 and a podcast then? I thought these were supposed to be information streams that mere mortals such as I did not have access to? You were suggesting I was jealous of your ability to read a magazine or listen to a podcast when you called me "bitter" earlier then were you?
Ah but you can "see that there is more to it than mere speculation" can't you? You cant tell me why or how or give me examples from the past that prove your credibility but I'm expected to believe you anyway? And you wonder why people call you a bullshitter?
You have a "decent rapport" with anyone who agrees with you at all times and doesn't call you on your obvious bullshit, isn't that what you mean?
If you had anything which proved your credentials as some sort of "inside man" you'd have provided it by now but you've given us nothing but magazine quotes and meaningless hints that you somehow know more than the rest of us but conveniently cant talk about it.
Put up or shut up Curd.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
Okay, so my idea to improve the game is to overhaul the stamina system. How? Well, at the moment both sets of players can sprint non stop, pressure non stop, which IMO makes the game far too arcadey in terms of limitless counters, defensive pressuring, and allows the CPU to abuse this and overpower you in challenges.
So, what I'd like to see be done is relatively simple to implement and effective. On the surface, it seems a bit like the FIFA stamina system and it is, but done in a much more effective way.
At the moment there is a single stamina bar. As the game goes on this diminishes but has little effect on player movement or technique. What I suggest is to have two stamina bars as in FIFA - an overall stamina gauge and a short term sprint gauge. Let's just assume the sprint gauge is red, overall blue.
So, as a game goes on, the blue gauge gradually diminishes. As you sprint, the red bar also diminishes but extremely quickly, giving the player a full sprint for a mere 10 or so seconds before running out and vastly slowing down. The length of the sprint bar can of course vary and be stat based. Using the bar will radically reduce the overall blue stamina gauge, and sprinting after the red bar has diminished will absolutely nail your blue stamina bar. As you use the red bar it refills but also reduces alot, thus reducing overall sprint time as the game wears on and depending on individual stamina abilities and how much you chose to sprint earlier in the game.
This would prevent constant speed merchant play over vast areas, and reduce the double press/sprint way of pressuring and force players, and the CPU, to defend in more selective, tactical ways as you can't afford to high pressurise, spiriting everywhere without suffering badly later on in the match, just as in real life.
So what happens when overall stamina gets low? Well, you could add varying scales of skill, positional play abs concentration degradation depending on how tired that player is. If his stamina is down 25%, you'll see a 20% reduction in these core stats, and so on. It's quite simple to implement. If you have a player on really low stamina, all sorts of things could happen. His positional play could go all over the place, say if he's a defender then he'll not mark his man or be out of position etc to replicate a lack of concentration caused by extreme fatigue that happens in real life. His ball control can go really heavy and unpredictable, passing wayward, tackling erratic and more likely to give away fouls etc.
I think this system would force players to use sprinting sparingly and give it tactical thought, and also make players have to defend in different ways with the rest of the match in mind. Top players like Messi tend to sprint at full speed in tiny rare bursts, they can't do it all match, and using this system if you tried constant sprinting with Messi all game he'd be knackered later on, acceleration would be slower and sprint speed radically reduced. His dribble accuracy would be cumbersome and shooting off. How many times have we seen exhausted players in extra time hitting tired shots? Conserving players for later in the game, using their pace etc, or even bringing on a good passer would make the difference because everyone still on the pitch would be noticeably worse. And picking high stamina players would be of a much larger importance, as I feel it's a gigantic side of professional football that videogames are currenly ignoring.
So, what I'd like to see be done is relatively simple to implement and effective. On the surface, it seems a bit like the FIFA stamina system and it is, but done in a much more effective way.
At the moment there is a single stamina bar. As the game goes on this diminishes but has little effect on player movement or technique. What I suggest is to have two stamina bars as in FIFA - an overall stamina gauge and a short term sprint gauge. Let's just assume the sprint gauge is red, overall blue.
So, as a game goes on, the blue gauge gradually diminishes. As you sprint, the red bar also diminishes but extremely quickly, giving the player a full sprint for a mere 10 or so seconds before running out and vastly slowing down. The length of the sprint bar can of course vary and be stat based. Using the bar will radically reduce the overall blue stamina gauge, and sprinting after the red bar has diminished will absolutely nail your blue stamina bar. As you use the red bar it refills but also reduces alot, thus reducing overall sprint time as the game wears on and depending on individual stamina abilities and how much you chose to sprint earlier in the game.
This would prevent constant speed merchant play over vast areas, and reduce the double press/sprint way of pressuring and force players, and the CPU, to defend in more selective, tactical ways as you can't afford to high pressurise, spiriting everywhere without suffering badly later on in the match, just as in real life.
So what happens when overall stamina gets low? Well, you could add varying scales of skill, positional play abs concentration degradation depending on how tired that player is. If his stamina is down 25%, you'll see a 20% reduction in these core stats, and so on. It's quite simple to implement. If you have a player on really low stamina, all sorts of things could happen. His positional play could go all over the place, say if he's a defender then he'll not mark his man or be out of position etc to replicate a lack of concentration caused by extreme fatigue that happens in real life. His ball control can go really heavy and unpredictable, passing wayward, tackling erratic and more likely to give away fouls etc.
I think this system would force players to use sprinting sparingly and give it tactical thought, and also make players have to defend in different ways with the rest of the match in mind. Top players like Messi tend to sprint at full speed in tiny rare bursts, they can't do it all match, and using this system if you tried constant sprinting with Messi all game he'd be knackered later on, acceleration would be slower and sprint speed radically reduced. His dribble accuracy would be cumbersome and shooting off. How many times have we seen exhausted players in extra time hitting tired shots? Conserving players for later in the game, using their pace etc, or even bringing on a good passer would make the difference because everyone still on the pitch would be noticeably worse. And picking high stamina players would be of a much larger importance, as I feel it's a gigantic side of professional football that videogames are currenly ignoring.
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info0
Banned
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
Some good points.
This is the problem with this ''free speech'' everybody waffles on about. They seem to think that other communities are hell bent on stamping free speech out, which is nonsense. the way I see it is that some folk think that free speech means an entitlement to go on swear filled rants and making baseless accusations and if this is deemed inappropriate by moderators or staff then their right to free speech is being compromised.
The other sad fact is that some folk believe that if they were allowed to feedback directly in such a manner they would be ''telling it like it is'' and all those that are currently feeding back are merely sugar-coating to ensure access. Again, simply not the case and is in all honesty rather amusing to see how folk can be so lacking in awareness and make the assumption that it is only they who are the ''real fans''.
This reminds me of Big Brother and other crappy reality TV shows in which contestants say stuff like ''I call it like it is and will always speak my mind no matter what and if it offends anyone then that is their problem'' and believe it to be a quality in their personality.
Do folk honestly think that they have more valuable feedback, or are they just naive and think that all that is missing is for some alleged ''real fan'' to kick the door down at Konami HQ and say ''Your game is entirely shit and you Japanese don't know what you are doing! Thank me later for this incredibly detailed and honest feedback dudes!''?
If I go into the office and find there has been a change to some processes and find numerous issues with them, I don't simply go into a meeting and simply say ''This is shit and you are shit'' I might be ''telling it like it is''etc., but it is not constructive and it is only less constructive if I also question the validity of others feedback in the process.
People think they know better but seem reluctant to offer solutions based on their experience of the game, and instead wander off into dreaming up little theories about Japanese games development and the validity of the feedback that has been offered up until now.
Why are people going on about how we should be giving constructive feedback on this thread?
There are 40 odd pages of EXCELLENT feedback on this thread! It didnt start off as a slagging match, it only got that way once we had all run out of things to say about PES 2012. Which is the norm for pretty much any forum.
To suggest this thread is nothing more than people saying the game is shit is to completely disregard the 40 odd pages that have come before this one where there was some very good intelligent discussion on the game.
Dont come into a thread, read the last page and then pass judgement. Read the whole thread first!
PS Curd, free speech is the ability to speak freely. You seem to think it's for you to decide what is valid comment and what isn't, that is NOT free speech.
There are 40 odd pages of EXCELLENT feedback on this thread! It didnt start off as a slagging match, it only got that way once we had all run out of things to say about PES 2012. Which is the norm for pretty much any forum.
To suggest this thread is nothing more than people saying the game is shit is to completely disregard the 40 odd pages that have come before this one where there was some very good intelligent discussion on the game.
Dont come into a thread, read the last page and then pass judgement. Read the whole thread first!
PS Curd, free speech is the ability to speak freely. You seem to think it's for you to decide what is valid comment and what isn't, that is NOT free speech.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
I find it odd that someone from WENB is going on about free speech! Oh the irony!
Curd likes to finely select which points he answers and avoids
Curd likes to finely select which points he answers and avoids
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Where's the Christmas spirit?
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Would make no difference, Murphy is PR it's his job is to sell the game to the public, It should be bookmarked in the Konami HQ with a translator going over it every day with Seabass and co!
Yeah I think so. I agree feedback could be crucial if they looked in the right areas. But people bang on about contructive feedback!
Feedback is good whether it be good or bad, lets not forget we are paying for a product here. I'm doing Konami a favour!
If someone wants to vent their anger at the game by going on a rant, then let them. To me this is feedback! People simply haven't the time to wrtie an essay or bullet point all the problems. And let's face it, the problems are bleedin obvious! No need to go into any great technical depth!
We are the consumers here and pay 40 quid each year. So, that gives the right to say what we think! If Konami are relying on the community then we all fucked! Because thus far they haven't listened to anything for 5 years in my opinion. The community aspect of pes is a smoke screen, lets hope so!
Feedback is good whether it be good or bad, lets not forget we are paying for a product here. I'm doing Konami a favour!
If someone wants to vent their anger at the game by going on a rant, then let them. To me this is feedback! People simply haven't the time to wrtie an essay or bullet point all the problems. And let's face it, the problems are bleedin obvious! No need to go into any great technical depth!
We are the consumers here and pay 40 quid each year. So, that gives the right to say what we think! If Konami are relying on the community then we all fucked! Because thus far they haven't listened to anything for 5 years in my opinion. The community aspect of pes is a smoke screen, lets hope so!
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
They listen to the wrong community, they take the feedback from the people that loved PES 2008 to PES 2012 rather than both those that loved it and those that think it went downhill after PES 6.
Ipswich69
Banned
- 25 July 2011
Please, cease your endless crusade to rid the interweb (with your pointless, verbose and condescending essays) of negative criticism and feelings about PES 2008-12. It's as if someone had come into your house and harmed your family. It's quite embarrassing and rather trite by now. This is the "not happy with PES" thread, get it? It's not for you to argue every point. Cheers.
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curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
They listen to the wrong community, they take the feedback from the people that loved PES 2008 to PES 2012 rather than both those that loved it and those that think it went downhill after PES 6.
Not that you would would know what the right or wrong community is given your join date. Hold on a minute...
I get the feeling you are a former WENB regular who was booted out and for good reason if I am not mistaken. Suddenly, it all makes sense. Oh dear.
Don't worry, I won't say why you got banned round here. It had bugger all to do with your views on PES, that is for sure.
@Ipswich69 - When did I say anything in my posts about defending ''PES2008-2012'' specifically? You have just piggy-backed on what others have said and tried to sound clever with your use of words. How pointless.
Thanks in advance for all those visits to our front page you haters will make in the future. Laters.
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Alan - if you're still reading this - can you shed some light on this quote from Adam please:
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but unless Adam, yourself or anyone else at WENB for that matter has done a crash course in video games design and programming, learned Japanese and relocated to Tokyo, how can he say something like this? Is it just a poor choice of words? Surely he means WENB are helping shape the game, and are more deeply involved in feedback with Konami themselves?
I'm genuinely puzzled by this quote and would appreciate your feedback. I know Adam's output can be over-excited and hyperbolic at the best of times, but I thought the focus of the site was to calm down a bit, be more humble and honest and win back the doubters? It's when he comes out with quotes like this that people really turn off and my instant reaction was that he hasn't learnt a thing these past few years.
He's a PR guy by profession, I know, but he's not Konami's PR and needs to switch off from PR mode and be more objective as the head of WENB if he wishes for himself and his site to be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong, I think WENB is a great news resource and there are some good people on the forums, but as a source of editorial opinion it's got a long way to go.
Anyway, here's to 2012 and I hope PES2013 is everything we want it to be. We've waited long enough.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong but unless Adam, yourself or anyone else at WENB for that matter has done a crash course in video games design and programming, learned Japanese and relocated to Tokyo, how can he say something like this? Is it just a poor choice of words? Surely he means WENB are helping shape the game, and are more deeply involved in feedback with Konami themselves?
I'm genuinely puzzled by this quote and would appreciate your feedback. I know Adam's output can be over-excited and hyperbolic at the best of times, but I thought the focus of the site was to calm down a bit, be more humble and honest and win back the doubters? It's when he comes out with quotes like this that people really turn off and my instant reaction was that he hasn't learnt a thing these past few years.
He's a PR guy by profession, I know, but he's not Konami's PR and needs to switch off from PR mode and be more objective as the head of WENB if he wishes for himself and his site to be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong, I think WENB is a great news resource and there are some good people on the forums, but as a source of editorial opinion it's got a long way to go.
Anyway, here's to 2012 and I hope PES2013 is everything we want it to be. We've waited long enough.
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
You banned me for saying "Black people are rioting in London" at the start of the riots claiming it was racist and i was a racist. Your an idiot...you do realise WENB is ran by 2 muslims right which i had been on for years? And i also had a picture of a black footballer as my avatar? As i say your an idiot.....i just hope we see some PES action here in Scotland we can talk it over a coffee.
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He disagreed with you then? That seems to be good enough reason for you chaps to boot someone out over at WENB.
Adam claims you are "making the game" and you claim you have a special "level of access" to the game.
You're a pair of fantasists.
Or, in the vernacular, bullshitters.
You cant even come back with any sort of coherent defence of what people accuse you of. All you do is spout lengthy paragraphs of meaningless, generalised nonsense while ignoring all the difficult questions.
If you think anyone in here will be heading to WENB any time soon after the rip roaring ARSE you've made of yourself you're very much mistaken. Your appearance on this thread has been a PR nightmare for both you and WENB because you've come across as a complete tool.
PS What is this "haters" patter? We're not 14 FFS.
curdstar
Premier League
- 19 September 2006
- PES4 Partick Thistle
Knew it! The obsession with scores and your writing style were a dead give-away.
I banned you for only a week by the way, to let you cool off. Someone else made it permanent and given that what you actually said was ''Now the blacks are rioting in Birmingham!'' and that ''the police need to start shooting the blacks!'' while footage showed that it was folks of all colour and creed who were rioting, it was a pretty easy decision to make for the person who made the ban permanent.
But what am I saying, we should have been embracing your right to free speech, right?
I also recall you registering on PESFan under the name of 3star just to say that you were ''coming for me!'' in a post in one thread, followed by ''your getting smashed'' on my profile page.
I work in Portcullis House, India Street, Glasgow if you still want that ''coffee''. Honestly? You actually want to have a fight over this?
How adult of you.
@the putz - So you think the actions of Flaw3d Genius are thoroughly commendable then? Aye, best you take a back seat now in case you get another case of foot in mouth.
@Jamezinho - I am sure you will appreciate my desire to not go into details here in front of the peanut gallery.
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Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Yeah you miss out that i wanted any rioters shot...but thats what you do....A fight? Nah i have calmed down...coffee is suffice. Will get in touch through PM and we can catch up on a lunch break when your free.
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Fair enough. I would appreciate some kind of explanation as to why Adam said what he said. It's a bold statement and not many are taking him seriously until it's substantiated.
Ipswich69
Banned
- 25 July 2011
Pere Ubu
Championship
- 29 October 2002
God this forum is going to the dogs.
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
last year we were talking about Pes 2011 in a good way, there was almost no negativity in here, look at what Konami has done with pes 2012...