Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
your argument is invalid since pes 5 had many club teams (same as pes 2012 except portoguese league and it's the most balanced pes out there
The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread
- Thread starter priskinsprick
- Start date
your argument is invalid since pes 5 had many club teams (same as pes 2012 except portoguese league and it's the most balanced pes out there
Ameppe
International
- 23 December 2007
- SSC Napoli
an opinion cannot be wrong
i'm just saying that the argument "less teams=better pes" is not true
I dont think cutting the game back in terms of size is a solution though, unless they want to charge £19.99 for the game in future or make it a PSN download.
They SHOULD be able to deliver a decent football game by now with the technology they have at their disposal. There's no excuse in my mind for the crap they have served up to us this year. The person who mentioned Konami's history of randomly removing stuff that works perfectly well was spot on, WHY do they do that? Why do they waste time every year changing things that dont need to change?
I cant help but feel Konami just mess around with this game for 12 months every year. They have no clear direction and have no idea what the fans want because they just dont listen or they listen to the wrong people. People like the morons on certain other sites who gave this game 9 out of 10 for example.
On that note, I read a review of PES 2012 in the official PS magazine and it was obvious to me they had only played the game for about 5 minutes before slapping a 9 out 10 score on it. In fact it sounded like they had played the demo version to be honest because what they described bore no resemblance to the game I have.
If Konami are going to continue listening to these idiots who praise their poor product with ridiculously high review scores we have NO CHANCE of ever getting back to the PES glory days.
They SHOULD be able to deliver a decent football game by now with the technology they have at their disposal. There's no excuse in my mind for the crap they have served up to us this year. The person who mentioned Konami's history of randomly removing stuff that works perfectly well was spot on, WHY do they do that? Why do they waste time every year changing things that dont need to change?
I cant help but feel Konami just mess around with this game for 12 months every year. They have no clear direction and have no idea what the fans want because they just dont listen or they listen to the wrong people. People like the morons on certain other sites who gave this game 9 out of 10 for example.
On that note, I read a review of PES 2012 in the official PS magazine and it was obvious to me they had only played the game for about 5 minutes before slapping a 9 out 10 score on it. In fact it sounded like they had played the demo version to be honest because what they described bore no resemblance to the game I have.
If Konami are going to continue listening to these idiots who praise their poor product with ridiculously high review scores we have NO CHANCE of ever getting back to the PES glory days.
Just watched that video and it’s so true about how they release unfinished games today.
Years ago PES12 out of the box would never have passed testing before online gaming arrived.
Now they can release unfinished games and fob us off with patches.
DLC should only be for boots, balls etc not to fix a games that’s broken. It’s just pure laziness from Konami.
What would they have done before online gaming? Recall them all?
It wouldn’t have happened. The game would have been tested before release.
Years ago PES12 out of the box would never have passed testing before online gaming arrived.
Now they can release unfinished games and fob us off with patches.
DLC should only be for boots, balls etc not to fix a games that’s broken. It’s just pure laziness from Konami.
What would they have done before online gaming? Recall them all?
It wouldn’t have happened. The game would have been tested before release.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
The reviews are interesting in the light of the subsequent gameplay patches that pretty radically alter the game. Whatever version is reviewed on websites and in magazines doesn't exist any more due to the patches. So all game reviews of PES2012 are kind of irrelevant now.
The joke is that Konami were so confident about their product this year that they took the unprecedented step of releasing two demos, and both extremely early - such was their bragging about active AI etc. Shame the active AI includes a 10 man defensive wall and severe scripting.
The joke is that Konami were so confident about their product this year that they took the unprecedented step of releasing two demos, and both extremely early - such was their bragging about active AI etc. Shame the active AI includes a 10 man defensive wall and severe scripting.
Why did you buy the ps3 version when you had the exact same thing on 360?
I think the rest of what he said was true but i agree with you there. Club teams on PES 5 actually felt like club teams though. For such a long time now (since the switch to next-gen) club teams feel so unlike club teams. I think it's because the game lacks a lot of cohesion and generally club football is all about cohesion and being used to playing with others. Flowing.
That's why international matches feel better on PES 2012. Just like real life it feels like a lot of individuals that don't fully understand how to play with one another. I can just get on board with it a lot more.
Plus PES 2012 still plays absolutely nothing like Premiership football. It alienates the whole league for me pretty much. It's better than it was in 2011 and 2010 but i can't get away from the feeling. It's more problematic with bigger teams. I played as Manchester Utd v Arsenal and neither team played like they actually do. In fact i just can't play as Man United in this game. I can't get the players to feel like their respective real life counterparts.
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Flaw3d Genius
Banned
PS3 version has the better option file, Chimps tactics, easier to install chants etc
Oh yeah, fair enough.
Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
That cohesion is supposed to come from you isnt it? It comes from playing with a team for an extended period and getting to know the players, how they move and what they are capable of. Also the formations are always pretty bad in PES, the presets I mean, this doesnt help.
The game isn't cohesive though at all by nature. I don't think it should be fully down to the player to force the cohesion. The game just doesn't flow well enough for it to feel cohesive like club football. It really feels like you're playing with 11 individuals who don't understand each other to me. Players don't look to play off other players by making runs when specific types of players have the ball or coming to collect it or in the case of strikers are far too static opting rarely to make runs unless you play a throughball into them first. When you're on the wing with players who are good at crossing then players should be looking to get into the box and make runs. They don't they're too static and it just extends to feeling like they don't understand one another. If i score from a cross it's because i pick out a player with the cross, not because somebody looks specifically to connect with it. Likewise problematic goalkeeping only stifles any defensive cohesion. I'm pretty sick of getting into situations where my defender always takes it off my goalkeeper when he's attempting to collect the ball (it doesn't help that holding Y to bring the gk out also means my defender will through ball it away).
All in all it's pretty difficult to explain because it's based on my own individual perception. Maybe it's the aforementioned list of things, maybe it isn't, but something just doesn't seem to click for me with club teams.
All in all i enjoy the game a lot more with international teams where i can pretend that these players aren't used to playing with each other. The way that the game makes them feel for whatever reason.
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Ern Dog
Championship
- 23 October 2009
I understand what you are saying and I totally agree, the ai is still too primitive.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
So who saw the Napoli v Manchester City game?
Those 3 goals were pure PES.
- glancing header at the near post which was dealt with poorly by the defender and keeper
- a backpass that went to the striker, who hits a shot parried straight to the striker
- a side footed shot that basically went under the keeper
There was also a 1 v 1 that went against the post and a few shots hit straight at the keeper.
If these events happened on a game of PES, some of you would be screaming blue murder! I understand some of you feel it's the lack of control that gets you upset but it's games like the one tonight where I feel that PES recreates so well. It's not always beautiful football that beats you. Sometimes it's luck or a mistake...
Those 3 goals were pure PES.
- glancing header at the near post which was dealt with poorly by the defender and keeper
- a backpass that went to the striker, who hits a shot parried straight to the striker
- a side footed shot that basically went under the keeper
There was also a 1 v 1 that went against the post and a few shots hit straight at the keeper.
If these events happened on a game of PES, some of you would be screaming blue murder! I understand some of you feel it's the lack of control that gets you upset but it's games like the one tonight where I feel that PES recreates so well. It's not always beautiful football that beats you. Sometimes it's luck or a mistake...
I didn't see the game but were there,
1.At least 9 players packed like sardines in the 18 yard box every time the opposition went past the halfway line?
2.Players running with the ball inexplicably stumbling?
3.Players making a run and then stopping suddenly for no reason?
4.Every rebound and ricochet magically going to the opposition player?
5.Average midfielders and defenders being able to dribble like a mixture of Messi and Ronaldo?
Only if the above happened can you call it PES football.
Spot on with all the problems PES currently has.
Just tried a game with Man City vs Napoli myself. They went 1-0 up through a nicely worked goal. I fought hard and had a few chances before eventually making it 1-1. All of a sudden, straight from kick off after I had equalized, they turned into a super team. Super quick 1 touch passes all the way through my defence and a low cross from the right hand side which led to all my defenders turning away from the ball for some reason and a simple tap in at the far post to put them 2-1 up! Once again I end up turning the game off before half time. I'm just hoping someone like Yair or Jenkey can make it at least playable for PC users this year.
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Why did you quit at 2-1??
Admittedly, there are the occassional 1 touch quick passing sequences that look ridiculous, but why not try to play out the game and then see if they keep doing scripted things?
Admittedly, there are the occassional 1 touch quick passing sequences that look ridiculous, but why not try to play out the game and then see if they keep doing scripted things?
CalcioCalabrese
Weekend warrior
Is there a way of posting photos on here without them being on the web? I tried inserting an image and it asks for a http address but I can't browse to a local directory?
I don't know if the game boosts the stats of the opposition on superstar difficulty, but whatever it is doing it's ruining the game.
I have gotten used to the messi dribbles of the cpu midfielders, and even if they do not fix it I'll let that one slide. What really bothers me know is that the cpu never misses a pass inside the box with 6 or 7 defenders. Their strikers can pull overhead kicks even with a forward pass from the center of the field, one of the most difficult kinds of shots like it's nothing. Their keepers and players have much better reactions chasing loose balls, cutting off through passes, tracking players, blocking shots.
Whatever they did to the CPU players, if they can do the same for the player's team, so much of the problems in the game will be fixed. I have witnessed some of the most amazing saves by superstar difficulty keepers, and it is proof that the keepers can be fixed. If this is really due to stat boosting, why do they insist on using such a rudimentary method of balancing?
What they should do is to apply whatever effect they do to superstar cpu to EVERY team in the same. Instead of boosting stats to increase difficulty, they should have cpus that more aggressively change tactics to counter your style of play, and ones that will defend 1 point leads if they are a weaker team, and ones that intelligently apply man to man to key players. Otherwise to simply make the team stronger as a whole, it makes every CPU team play like a combination of barcelona at buildup play, and real madrid at counter attacking. This way of game balancing simply ruins the game.
I have gotten used to the messi dribbles of the cpu midfielders, and even if they do not fix it I'll let that one slide. What really bothers me know is that the cpu never misses a pass inside the box with 6 or 7 defenders. Their strikers can pull overhead kicks even with a forward pass from the center of the field, one of the most difficult kinds of shots like it's nothing. Their keepers and players have much better reactions chasing loose balls, cutting off through passes, tracking players, blocking shots.
Whatever they did to the CPU players, if they can do the same for the player's team, so much of the problems in the game will be fixed. I have witnessed some of the most amazing saves by superstar difficulty keepers, and it is proof that the keepers can be fixed. If this is really due to stat boosting, why do they insist on using such a rudimentary method of balancing?
What they should do is to apply whatever effect they do to superstar cpu to EVERY team in the same. Instead of boosting stats to increase difficulty, they should have cpus that more aggressively change tactics to counter your style of play, and ones that will defend 1 point leads if they are a weaker team, and ones that intelligently apply man to man to key players. Otherwise to simply make the team stronger as a whole, it makes every CPU team play like a combination of barcelona at buildup play, and real madrid at counter attacking. This way of game balancing simply ruins the game.
Calcio ignores all of the above mate. He's so blinded to the many faults of PES 2012 that he actually believes that ONE instance of a goalkeeper palming a very powerful shot out straight to a striker in a real life game proves beyond doubt that when it happens FOUR times in ONE game of PES it is somehow "realistic". It doesn't matter to him that PES keepers palm out some of the weakest shots you'll ever see straight to the AI with alarming regularity. It happened ONCE last night so that's OK in his mind.
Cavani's second that "went under the keeper" was sweetly struck and was past Hart before he knew what was happening. It wasn't trundling towards the keeper at a snail's pace only for him to dive over the ball. There is simply NO comparison to the ridiculous goals you can concede in PES to what happened in that game last night.
A striker hit the post with a shot! That happens in PES too! HOW REALISTIC! A striker hit a shot straight at the keeper! That happens in PES too! HOW REALISTIC! Give me strength. Do you not actually read what anyone says in this forum? Do you really think we dont want shots in PES to EVER hit the post or EVER go straight at the keeper? Of course we dont mind that IF IT IS OUR OWN FAULT, not some sort of AI scripting to keep the game close right up to the final whistle or to ensure you lose the game.
I watched the game last night, I wish PES was like that. It was fast, skillful, top quality, free flowing football from two very good teams. In other words, NOTHING LIKE PES.
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- Thread starter
- #832
priskinsprick
Banned
- 4 August 2010
Funny how people who say they are 'happy' with PES 2012 keep molesting the unhappy thread!
Not much going on in the other threads lads?
Jesus PES 2012 is CACK!
And the demo was superb!
Not much going on in the other threads lads?
Jesus PES 2012 is CACK!
And the demo was superb!
Flaw3d Genius
Banned
I was playing Demo 2 yesterday and do you know what....after the 4th game i was as bored as i am playing the final game.
Dont know what it is with PES 2012, the first game always feels great, 2nd game good, 3rd game starting to get boring and 4th game turned off halfway through.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
I see your point, but these things don't say anything about the flow of the match. I can already guarantee that one team didn't camp in their own penalty area with 10 defenders, and I can guarantee that neither team can do this then break away with alarming accuracy and luck week in week out.
Okay, so the keeper parried a shot, just as in PES, but no-one can deny that rebounds in this game are majorly scripted in the CPU's favour. Nine times out of ten my shot would be parried to safety, whereas nine times out of ten their shots will be parried straight into the path of their one attacker in my penalty area. Now, I get your point that this DOES happen, but not every game and not consistently against any one team. If a team consistently loses, for example, then they'll have many matches where they are pinned back, outplayed, and can't get the ball for long periods of time. PES doesn't replicate this in any way. You simply don't have a team anywhere who consistently lose or draw yet always dominate each match they play, have Barcelona style amounts of possession, then get hit by an unstoppable counter where your defenders off the ball choose to run momentarily away from an attacker and let him him in on goal, or you lose to an unlucky rebound etc. This doesn't happen to any team in the world, not every single time.
I think that's most people's major gripe. If the game balanced these things out as in real life, people would take it with a pinch of salt and say "you win some you lose some". But in PES2012 the alarming regularity with which the CPU benefits from supposedly 'random' stuff like rebounds, deflections, bad refereeing, keeper errors etc is just so blatant. Even some of the most hardened PES players are saying that this year.
There's always been an element of scripting in PES but it's always been done in a way that simulates the swings and rounabouts of real football. For every last minute goal you concede, you're just as likely to go and do the same in another match, just like in real life. And for all the probable hundreds of games I've played by now, I honestly cannot ever remember a single instance where bad goalkeeping errors actually worked in my favour. Oddly they're always mistakes from my keeper, not the CPU's.
This 'swing' in momentum, fortune, whatever you want to call it, does happen occasionally but is so weighted in the game's favour that people look at it as cheating.
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
It's been like that for a while. The addictive replay-factor has been absent since PES5 for me.
People that can play this game for hours? Easily pleased springs to mind.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
Funnily enough I said the exact same thing last week. I play a match, enjoy it, then second one not so much, third, I'm restless and annoyed by it, fourth, I never actually finish the match.
Can't put my finger on why though. I don't feel that sense of satisfaction when scoring a goal that I did even in PES 2011. At least in that I got really involved in my ML campaign so goals felt more vital I suppose, especially if you'd signed a young player on the cheap, trained him up, brought him on as a sub and gets the winning goal for example.
I certainly can't get that enthusiasm this time around, in FL this year you'll probably want to drop the same player because he'd probably demanded the no.10 shirt, got in a strop, then wanted to know why he's not playing, then moaned about being tired after one game. Aargh!
Can't put my finger on why though. I don't feel that sense of satisfaction when scoring a goal that I did even in PES 2011. At least in that I got really involved in my ML campaign so goals felt more vital I suppose, especially if you'd signed a young player on the cheap, trained him up, brought him on as a sub and gets the winning goal for example.
I certainly can't get that enthusiasm this time around, in FL this year you'll probably want to drop the same player because he'd probably demanded the no.10 shirt, got in a strop, then wanted to know why he's not playing, then moaned about being tired after one game. Aargh!
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Flaw3d Genius
Banned
Funnily enough I said the exact same thing last week. I play a match, enjoy it, then second one not so much, third, I'm restless and annoyed by it, fourth, I never actually finish the match.
Can't put my finger on why though. I don't feel that sense of satisfaction when scoring a goal that I did even in PES 2011. At least in that I got really involved in my ML campaign so goals felt more vital I suppose, especially if you'd signed a young player on the cheap, trained him up, brought him on as a sub and gets the winning goal for example.
I certainly can't get that enthusiasm this time around, in FL this year you'll probably want to drop the same player because he'd probably demanded the no.10 shirt, got in a strop, then wanted to know why he's not playing, then moaned about being tired after one game. Aargh!
I hardly played PES 2008-2011 so i dont know about how the goals were in those games but im finding the goals are always the same in this years PES ala Fifa and this was never the case with PES on PS1 & 2, the game is so predictable it's unreal.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
It really is
I was expecting huge things from it, basically the same mode as in 2011 but with tons of extra little bells and whistles to make it that much more immersive, and what we got was all my favourite parts removed for no reason and replaced with stuff that doesn't even work properly.
I also thought that Club Boss mode was an extension of ML, before the game came out. I thought you could retire from being a manager and move up into the boardroom of the club you'd taken to the top, but nope. It's a pointless standalone mode that is also pretty tedious and repetitive. Just like the rest of ML away from match days.