The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

Which PES 2012 version do you prefer?


  • Total voters
    233
  • Poll closed .
Demo 2!

Demo 2!

Demo 2!

They were making the demos all year! Then they bottled it! Again!

That was football! Defending was about holding your shape! Tackling was a last measure - like real football! Positioning in the demo was superbly manual and so rewarding!

Active AI was superb! Teammates with intelligence! Since when you're attacking you are only controlling one player and the defending team can switch between as many as they like, you need intelligent active teammates! Not guys who stand in an unavailable position! Why was this removed! The R3 player run feature doesn't really work anymore either!

The ball was a ball! It weighed something! you could spray it without defenders outrunning it! You struck it and it dipped! You pass it and you felt the manual pass was really working, and how satisfying getting even the simple passing game right! Like real football, you could get the ball to do the work!

You could get round the back! The games could become truly stretched and 1 vs 1 opportunities could be carved out! The attackers body actually had weight! And a pacy player once clear was clear and the excitement is at it's max!

WE SHOULD START A PETITION TO GET OUR MONEY BACK, WE PLAYED A DEMO, WE LOVED IT AND WERE TOLD THAT IT WAS FINAL CODE. THEN WHEN THE CHEQUE CLEARED WE WERE GIVEN SOMETHING FAR FAR WORSE.

SURELY WE'D HAVE A CASE! AND KONAMI WOULD GET THE FUCKING MESSAGE!

PS Playing Demo 2 now - Absolutely superb!

PREfuckingCISELY!!!!!!!!!!!! I know for a fact that in Spain the game is being sold for 49 euros and here in Portugal costs 69,95. They led the market here in Portugal since always. Not anymore. Shelves already full of sold PES 12. For me, the first time i don´t have the "need" to play the game. After DEMO 2, this funless retail shit is too much for me to bear and accept.
 
PREfuckingCISELY!!!!!!!!!!!! I know for a fact that in Spain the game is being sold for 49 euros and here in Portugal costs 69,95. They led the market here in Portugal since always. Not anymore. Shelves already full of sold PES 12. For me, the first time i don´t have the "need" to play the game. After DEMO 2, this funless retail shit is too much for me to bear and accept.

Demo 2 was a polished version of retail code, sadly we need to wait till PES 2013 to be able to get the full game of Demo 2.
 
EA made a major break-through with FIFA08, but have been unable to build on it in any substantive way. Meanwhile, Konami have spent the last 5 years desperately trying to rebuild PES6 on a next-gen platform, but have failed abysmally.

2 totally shit games, neither able to outdo the other. PES comes closer to recreating football, but is a complete fucking shambles of a game. If Konami had served up this garbage 10 years ago, I might have been impressed, but now it just stinks of 2001.
 
Demo 2 was a polished version of retail code, sadly we need to wait till PES 2013 to be able to get the full game of Demo 2.

AHAHAH!!! Yes that´s it. You are right. Will download demo again, and sell my retail. My mistake, got confused. Wanted to demo the shit and pay for the good stuff, but got it all wrong. I feel so depressed right now...
 
Can't disagree with most of what that guy says tbh. I went back on to PES2011 yesterday and continued my long since abandoned ML. Never got round to the Champions League so there's still a lot to do in the game. I'm just enjoying it a lot more. The graphics are 100% better than 2012, I prefer the more weighty feel to players and dribbling mechanics, I noticed that the CPU still crams virtually the whole team deep around their box but they're far less superhuman in term of closing down. And it feels 100% less scripted too.

I'm also enjoying 2011's ML. I can now get from one week to another without having to deal with illogical player complaining and whining, and though there's technically less to do in certain areas, developing your squad is far more satisfying. I can now choose to promote a youth player or sign a young player then train him in specific areas I feel will make him into a better player for that position. I can train him to be more technical, or stronger and more tactical etc, and I can now choose to spend my club's money on long term routines that earn that player specific player cards of your choosing. It takes ages and a fair bit of money, but having some duffer turned into an attacking midfield dynamo with relevant skill cards over a period of 1/2/3 seasons, then weighing up whether to sell him on for the good of the club (and for a massive profit) is, for me, missing in 2012. It feels like 2012 removed some really in-depth stuff that is crucial to the whole ML idea of coaching your squad, managing form and fitness, and replaced it with a whole load of other stuff that is a whole lot of nothing.

So though there's actually less to do day to day in PES2011 ML than in 2012, I'm finding PES2011 to be more in depth, more logical, and more fun.
 
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So you are playing 2011 over FIFA12 then LTFC? I got FIFA on the weekend, havnt had much playing time so far but it seems like its atleast better than any next gen footy game ive played. One thing I have noticed already thats bothering me is that off the ball, positionally the players dont seem to have a clear idea of what they should be doing. But otherwise its good. I have read alot of people saying that PES will catch FIFA up soon tech wise..... Are they serious? FIFA is far better in this aspect and from what Seabass has shown so far I dont think PES will ever match it.
 
Can't disagree with most of what that guy says tbh. I went back on to PES2011 yesterday and continued my long since abandoned ML. Never got round to the Champions League so there's still a lot to do in the game. I'm just enjoying it a lot more. The graphics are 100% better than 2012, I prefer the more weighty feel to players and dribbling mechanics, I noticed that the CPU still crams virtually the whole team deep around their box but they're far less superhuman in term of closing down. And it feels 100% less scripted too.

I'm also enjoying 2011's ML. I can now get from one week to another without having to deal with illogical player complaining and whining, and though there's technically less to do in certain areas, developing your squad is far more satisfying. I can now choose to promote a youth player or sign a young player then train him in specific areas I feel will make him into a better player for that position. I can train him to be more technical, or stronger and more tactical etc, and I can now choose to spend my club's money on long term routines that earn that player specific player cards of your choosing. It takes ages and a fair bit of money, but having some duffer turned into an attacking midfield dynamo with relevant skill cards over a period of 1/2/3 seasons, then weighing up whether to sell him on for the good of the club (and for a massive profit) is, for me, missing in 2012. It feels like 2012 removed some really in-depth stuff that is crucial to the whole ML idea of coaching your squad, managing form and fitness, and replaced it with a whole load of other stuff that is a whole lot of nothing.

So though there's actually less to do day to day in PES2011 ML than in 2012, I'm finding PES2011 to be more in depth, more logical, and more fun.

Agreed mate!

I played 2011 at a mate's a couple of weeks ago and it's just a better all round game than 2012, no doubt about it in my mind.

Con-ami have tried to fix things that weren't broken and the new stuff they have tried to add just doesn't work properly.

PES 2012 feels like a Beta release. At least 2011 felt like the finished article.
 
I have read alot of people saying that PES will catch FIFA up soon tech wise..... Are they serious? FIFA is far better in this aspect and from what Seabass has shown so far I dont think PES will ever match it.

The only way PES will catch FIFA on a technical level is if they take at least a year out. EA have done this themselves with their NBA franchise when they realised NBA2K was so far ahead on all levels.

There's no shame in doing it. I'd be happy to wait two years if that means I finally get a game worthy of the PES name, and more importantly worthy of this generation of consoles. The question is, can Konami afford to take a year out?

I don't think they can, and being realistic I can't see them ever deviating from the annual release schedule anyway. In truth it's almost got to a point where the damage is done. EA's game, like it or not, is technically on another level to PES and they can now focus on tweaking their game the same way Seabass used to on the PS2. Seabass just has so much work to do it's unreal, and I'm questioning if he and his team fully understand the gravity of the situation. I'm not sure they even know what needs to be done, or indeed where to start. I can't believe Seabass can truly be proud of PES2012 when he himself knows it's well below the benchmark he set in 2005.
 
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Agreed, I think the series needs time out and a whole new tech to take it forwards. IMO it needs an overhaul in almost every area from gameplay to presentation. Everything feels dated in PES2012, oddly much more so than PES2011 which doesn't make sense.

@Ern, I'm kinda splitting my time between both PES2011 and FIFA12 at the moment, not sure why but I've kinda got a bit lax with FIFA, thought it was the best football game I'd ever played at first now I don't find much motivation to play it much anymore. I'll definitely finish my ML in PES2011 though. I may as well, I still really enjoy the game and games are there to be enjoyed. PES2012 is going to get no game time out of me any more, on top of PES2011 and FIFA12 there are so many other games I wanna play - Mass Effect 1&2, Skyrim, Bioshock Infinite, Forza 4, Batman Arkham City, Battlefield 3, the list is endless. I'll enjoy them a lot more than PES2012 so I don't see any point in playing it to be honest.
 
However regarding PES and the future, I think Seabass said next year's game will be "very different". Firstly, I don't believe him, and secondly, it shows that they don't have a clue where to take the series. PES2011 was meant to be Konami's 'reinvention' of the series. It was vastly different, but they seem to have completely shifted the goalposts (no pun intended!) with 2012 and feels like they're trying to backtrack.

2011 should have been tweaked, visuals and animation vastly improved, the start of steady evolution of that 'new' game they released. Instead it vastly changed and I'm not sure even Konami know why.
 
However regarding PES and the future, I think Seabass said next year's game will be "very different". Firstly, I don't believe him, and secondly, it shows that they don't have a clue where to take the series. PES2011 was meant to be Konami's 'reinvention' of the series. It was vastly different, but they seem to have completely shifted the goalposts (no pun intended!) with 2012 and feels like they're trying to backtrack.

2011 should have been tweaked, visuals and animation vastly improved, the start of steady evolution of that 'new' game they released. Instead it vastly changed and I'm not sure even Konami know why.

I think what they tried to do with PES 2012 was make it more like the PS2 games but were stuck between 2 places. 1: They didnt go far enough and 2: Final retail code seemed to sway back to PES 2011 rather than what we were playing with both demo's.

They should of went full out more like PS2 or full out more like PES 2011 not a mix between the two.
 
Fifa12 may be the best all round game on next gen consoles but Ill never get as much fun from it as I did from it as I did from ISS right through to PES6.

We are PES fans for a reason and I truly beleive that a long time PES fan will never enjoy Fifa 100%

I pick up Fifa12 but long for a excellent game of PES - Its a shame I wont be getting one for a while.

Early PES was amazing and we were truely spoilt. The games were light years ahead of their time.
 
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Fifa12 may be the best all round game on next gen consoles but Ill never get as much fun from it as I did from it as I did from ISS right through to PES6.

We are PES fans for a reason and I truly beleive that a long time PES fan will never enjoy Fifa 100%

I pick up Fifa12 but long for a excellent game of PES - Its a shame I wont be getting one for a while.

Early PES was amazing and we were truely spoilt. The games were light years ahead of their time.

I really liked Fifa 08 to 11 although 11 was annoying due to the defence AI of own team, Fifa 12 just doesnt seem as enjoyable as those games and has lead me to trade it today for PES 2012 lol just to put myself through more pain.
 
been there.

Had Fifa12 traded it for PES, traded PES for Fifa, Traded Fifa for PES and the other day traded PES for Fifa.

I just cant enjoy PES12 - normally I can see past the glitches but there are so many this year I cant.
 
I cant bring myself to trade in PES.

I haven't played it in a while now and I'm unlikely to play it anytime soon but I just cant trade it in. It's like I cannot conceive of not having a football game in my house.

Stupid I know but there it is.
 
However regarding PES and the future, I think Seabass said next year's game will be "very different". Firstly, I don't believe him, and secondly, it shows that they don't have a clue where to take the series. PES2011 was meant to be Konami's 'reinvention' of the series. It was vastly different, but they seem to have completely shifted the goalposts (no pun intended!) with 2012 and feels like they're trying to backtrack.

2011 should have been tweaked, visuals and animation vastly improved, the start of steady evolution of that 'new' game they released. Instead it vastly changed and I'm not sure even Konami know why.

Problem is that there is no middle ground for Konami, things have to be either overdone or underdone. We all know dribbling and player's resposiveness had to be improved for next one as everyone turned like Heskey drunk. All players felt sluggish and slow in 2011. They had to be improved but not drastically like in 2012, now every player with the speed Merchant card is Messi and even the most average player has the touh of Zidane and Bergkamp. They also change things when they don't need to, passing was great in 2011 but now with the ball having no wieght it is terrible 2012. Goal keepers and animations have been asked to be improved for years but they have been barely been touched.


They just need to work on 2011 which was an unfinished game but had a lot of potenital, I thought they would do this with 2012 but this whole 'every game has to be evolutionised' is not doing good for the series. While Fifa havn't done enough since Fifa 08, they havn't been stupid enough to change a winning fomula as well. Fifa 08 was the revolution they needed from the horible PS2 games they produced. I think 2011 was the change Pro Eo needed and had to be worked on but I don't think Konami have realised this.
 
I think what they tried to do with PES 2012 was make it more like the PS2 games but were stuck between 2 places. 1: They didnt go far enough and 2: Final retail code seemed to sway back to PES 2011 rather than what we were playing with both demo's.

They should of went full out more like PS2 or full out more like PES 2011 not a mix between the two.

I disagree to be honest, I think the PS2 versions should stay in the past. I still think a HD remake of PES5 or 6 would be a great thing to be available say as a budget game on XBL/PSN but with 2012 I'd have preferred it to have continued down the PES2011 road, as a sim it's streets ahead of the PS2 games. I think they took the responsiveness issues with player movement and ramped it up way too far, to the extent that players don't, to me anyways, feel as individual in 2012 as they do in 2011.

But equally important for me, as an offline player, is ML, and this year promised so much. I presumed it would be 2011's ML mode with tons added in, which seemed brilliant in theory, but then yet again when anticipating a PES game, I completely forgot that Konami have a rich and wonderful history of pointlessly ditching off features and modes that work really well. There's no logic to them simplifying the training like they did, player development is what ML is all about and I feel like they've replaced it with a ton of poorly implemented little stuff just put in 'for show'.
 
As I've said before Jimmy, I'm glad you dont have a problem with the shooting, I really am. What I have an issue with is how you and others are far too quick to blame player error for what I and many others see as an obvious coding bug. That's where you come across as arrogant. You say you dont have a problem but you allude to the fact that sometimes your shots dont go where you want them to and put this down to your player being under pressure. That to my mind is you making excuses for the game. You are filling in the blanks to make the dodgy code seem acceptable to you. In short, you are fooling yourself and therefore are blind to the flaw in the shooting system. Professional players in real life can still place the ball when under pressure otherwise they would never progress past school level football, so your "realism" argument is nonsense.

That aside, this is a GAME. Most games put the player into high pressure situations but they dont randomly reverse the controls to simulate that situation do they? They do what you tell them to do. Of course I want simulation in a football game but causing a shot to go left when I have selected for it to go right even 20% or 30% of the time is just stupid. All it would take is a little more effort from Konami to show those shots going in the direction you pressed but wide or high or both. That would fix it. But no, even goals I score dont feel like MY goals because they're going in a direction I simply did not select.

I'm a decent PES player too Jimmy, that's why someone like you trying to tell me I cant understand a simple shooting mechanic or that I'm somehow "not doing it right" is so ridiculous to me. The flaw is so obvious to me, and others who have backed it up both on this forum and in real life, that what I have said about you in this post and in the past is the only logical conclusion I can reach. You simply dont see it.

As for your edit, It's true I haven't posted on here much since I joined but to be honest I've never been so annoyed with a version of PES before. I felt compelled to come back here and have my say. You suspect me of being a "troll" but would a "troll" join in 2006 then say next to nothing for YEARS before finally coming online just to disagree with YOU Jimmy? Is that your ego again? Oh wait, you dont have an ego do you? Even though you took the time to tell me all about how you play in a good league and how you "hammer it" and "prove your worth game in game out". :P

You ask me to put yourself in your shoes, I have tried that and the only conclusion I can reach is that you simply dont notice the flaw or are making excuses for it. Obviously when you put yourself in my shoes you think I'm a crap player who just doesn't understand the shooting mechanic the same way you do.

If you consider I'm pretty much the same age as you and have been playing computer games most of my life, what do YOU think is the more likely scenario?

+ 1000

Finally someone logical and clear minded. Some people in here tend to make the ones who see problems in the game, like blind people who just dont know how to play.

Shooting like you said " All it would take is a little more effort from Konami to show those shots going in the direction you pressed but wide or high or both." should go always in the direcction you selected, only to wide or to high not the oposite side.

I have scored great goals without no pressure at all, where the shoot goes in like a gerrard bomb, just to realize i´m pressing right and the shoot goes the top left corner ( yeeeiiiiiiiii, but wait its not my skill, just the CPU that decided i have to score this time ).

And someone here said that you have to go to extremes, when selecting the side to put the ball right in the corner. All i ask is why? Aren´t we in the 360º times? I do i have to press the direction in an angle of 180ª so put the ball wide when i am centered with the goal? shouldn´t a simple 45º work it out? If you just dont press an 180º direction to choose the side the majority of times the ball goes in the middle ( this on one on one with the GK )

Take note of something, the shooting phisics its better this year but the incosistency of the shooting is worse, only to make the keepers look "better"...

Shooting is what realy anoys me in this game as i like the game way more than 2011, the responsivness, the bal physics, the 1 bar passing assistance, and the AI, all is better but shooting is like a gamebreaker for me. And online is where its worse,
 
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Konami need to work on a lot more than the fundamental gameplay. The game just feels basic and that's part of the reason that the only thing that PES 2010, 2011 and 2012 have been good for is exhibition matches and sometimes custom international tournaments if i can be bothered. Online is a big mode but its absolutely stuck in the stone ages as far as being able to customise things (i.e find similar teams or change gamespeed/passing assistance). I've personally found ML, the core campaign mode of the game, so incredibly boring ever since they opted for the serious approach to it. I've mentioned it before but news flash Konami, you don't have enough leagues to do that very well. It just feels one-dimensional and bland and has done for a while. Regardless of how much i like or hate the fundamental gameplay it doesn't change the fact that i get bored of the game quickly now.

More to the point, when was the last time PES felt like a complete package? There's things outside the fundamental gameplay that are just missing and have been for ages or things that have never been there that desperately need to be. The game has no atmosphere for a start, the injury system is non-existent and the game just doesn't feel dynamic.

I don't know what the audio department does all year either but when you score an equaliser in the 90th minute and the crowd and players seemingly make no more noise than usual (i.e not a lot) it makes you think they don't do much.

P.S Would anybody agree with me that this game is much more fun to play using international teams? I think it's because the team feels like a bunch of individuals playing together rather than the kind of cohesion you get at club football.
 
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I cant bring myself to trade in PES.

I haven't played it in a while now and I'm unlikely to play it anytime soon but I just cant trade it in. It's like I cannot conceive of not having a football game in my house.

Stupid I know but there it is.

Having traded PES2012 once already and bought it back a couple of weeks later I can't see myself doing that again. Even though PES2012 is sub-par I soon got those cravings to play PES again. I don't play it much, but a couple of matches a week is enough to keep me going.

The strange thing is, even though FIFA 12 is a pretty solid title this year I'm actually on the verge of trading it and keeping PES. I still don't get cravings to play FIFA no matter how good it is. A credit to PES, I suppose, that even in its broken state it's still more a draw to me than FIFA.

A strange and disappointing year for football games this.
 
Konami need to work on a lot more than the fundamental gameplay. The game just feels basic and that's part of the reason that the only thing that PES 2010, 2011 and 2012 have been good for is exhibition matches and sometimes custom international tournaments if i can be bothered. Online is a big mode but its absolutely stuck in the stone ages as far as being able to customise things (i.e find similar teams or change gamespeed/passing assistance). I've personally found ML, the core campaign mode of the game, so incredibly boring ever since they opted for the serious approach to it. I've mentioned it before but news flash Konami, you don't have enough leagues to do that very well. It just feels one-dimensional and bland and has done for a while. Regardless of how much i like or hate the fundamental gameplay it doesn't change the fact that i get bored of the game quickly now.

I'm in total agreement with this. You have an identical mindset to me on the game.

All I do these days is play exhibition games, the odd Champions League campaign and a few custom tournaments. I usually play through a season of one of the leagues, normally Serie A.

The one thing I don't do is go anywhere near Master League. I really detest it since the format changed when PES3 came out. Master League always was a fantasy league - sort of a European superleague - with all the top teams in the first division. I used to love this, starting in division 3, working my way up to winning division 1 and playing teams from every country in the game on the way.

The new setup is woeful, with the pseudo leagues and fake division 2. It's really I'll conceived and is just a way to shoehorn in the CL and Europa League licenses.

Give me the old fantasy leagues any day, playing the likes of Man Utd, Juve, Milan, Arsenal, Bayern, Barca, Real etc.....all in the same division. Class.

More to the point, when was the last time PES felt like a complete package? There's things outside the fundamental gameplay that are just missing and have been for ages or things that have never been there that desperately need to be. The game has no atmosphere for a start, the injury system is non-existent and the game just doesn't feel dynamic.

PES3 and PES5 felt the closest to being complete packages to me. PES4 dropped the ball a bit with the lacking edit mode (remember the no striped shirts fiasco?).

Think of all the little things that have gone missing over the years, such as the variable attendance setting, snow, player's breath in cold weather, the stadium gallery etc, etc......

I don't know what the audio department does all year either but when you score an equaliser in the 90th minute and the crowd and players seemingly make no more noise than usual (i.e not a lot) it makes you think they don't
do much.

As I've said many times, Konami need to outsource the entire audio to a third party. In game SFX, chants and crowd noise, the lot.

The thing is, go back and play PES1-3 (or even some of the ISS games before) and the crowd chants really weren't that bad. Some were really great, such as the band when Holland play, or the air horns when Mexico played. They almost had it nailed back then.

P.S Would anybody agree with me that this game is much more fun to play using international teams? I think it's because the team feels like a bunch of individuals playing together rather than the kind of cohesion you get at club football.

Yes. PES has always been about international football at it's heart. That's where it started back in the ISS days and I remember playing many fantastic international tournaments with my mates. The game didn't even need club teams. The football was so good it didn't matter.

The lack of international teams in FIFA is a big disappointment to me, which is crazy when you consider it is a FIFA licensed product.
 
Got the PS3 version today as i had the 360 one before, The PS3 version of this game has some major issues,

1: Graphics - Compared to the 360 it looks horrid, Jaggies everywhere and lack of detail.

2: Slowdown - Cant believe im seeing slowdown which again the 360 version was fine

3: Motion Blur - Why is it still in? A patch removed it from the 360 version

4: Wide Camera cannot keep up with play at times WTF?

5: Loading times must be about 3x longer than on 360


Really surprised how unpolished the PS3 version is as reading WENB Adam n Co were saying the 360 version was the poorer version of PES 2012...CERTAINLY NOT!!
 
The master league lost its identity when they took the player trade out and switched to currency from points.

That's what everyone loved about the master league. It was fun and different from other games management mode that were boring and serious.

Also I think PES was better when it was just international teams. There were less teams but they took their time with player stats and were far more accurate. It also hid the fact hey had no licenses at all.

Those were the days. Will konami ever get that magic back? I doubt it.
 
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