The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[GraGra]

However regarding PES and the future, I think Seabass said next year's game will be "very different".

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I seriously think he said the same thing last year...? I'd search for it but I'm too lazy...

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I hardly played PES 2008-2011 so i dont know about how the goals were in those games but im finding the goals are always the same in this years PES ala Fifa and this was never the case with PES on PS1 & 2, the game is so predictable it's unreal.

I'm finding goals in FIFA12 to be miles more varied, especially those I concede. In PES this year the only goals they score are from lofted through passes on a quick break, from crosses, from crazy deflections falling their way or from a player on a quick break slaloming over 3-4 challenges down the middle of the pitch right at the end of games. Those same four, over and over.

Similarly, the AI sits so deep and presses so much that it's impossible to do certain things, so it forces you into trying the same types of goals. Crosses and long shots, mainly.

Actually thinking about it, I've lost count of the number of times the CPU can get in behind your defence, yet I can't remember a single occasion, ever, that I've managed to break 'clear' of their defence reasonably high up the pitch and run in on their keeper. They just don't move out of their penalty area. If the CPU does a lofted through pass it stands a chance because it's up against his marker and maybe a covering defender, but if I try the same, your striker trying to get on the ball will always be swamped out by 4-5 players. It's crazy.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I seriously think he said the same thing last year...? I'd search for it but I'm too lazy...

He did, and to be fair to him, PES2011 was vastly different to 2010. Some people think he's hinting at using a new engine or newer tech for the next game, but frankly I don't believe it.

 

[ToonArmy]

Why did you quit at 2-1??

Admittedly, there are the occassional 1 touch quick passing sequences that look ridiculous, but why not try to play out the game and then see if they keep doing scripted things?

Frustration mate. Its happened time after time so I just give up. If it was my own fault and poor defending by me, I could have accepted it. But the passing was so quick and with the awful player switching it was impossible to even get near them to win the ball.

 

[Lami]

The master league lost its identity when they took the player trade out and switched to currency from points.

That's what everyone loved about the master league. It was fun and different from other games management mode that were boring and serious.

Also I think PES was better when it was just international teams. There were less teams but they took their time with player stats and were far more accurate. It also hid the fact hey had no licenses at all.

Those were the days. Will konami ever get that magic back? I doubt it.

Personally, I never liked the points system from day 1. Always thought it was dumb and didn't make sense when buying/trading/selling. Also, I've always wanted to have the option to switch clubs, specially when I feel I've done everything at the club and there's nothing more I could offer, I'd want a fresh start somewhere else without losing any of my managerial stats/success.

 

[P34SEMM]

yeah the option to swich clubs is a must.

 

[Lami]

Is there a way of posting photos on here without them being on the web? I tried inserting an image and it asks for a http address but I can't browse to a local directory?

You'll have to upload them to imageshack.us or something similar mate.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Nah stuff it. Had some screenshots that showed 7 men camped out in the box from the Man City game lol. Would only stir up trouble in here

 

[Jamezinho]

He did, and to be fair to him, PES2011 was vastly different to 2010. Some people think he's hinting at using a new engine or newer tech for the next game, but frankly I don't believe it.

There has been some quite interesting talk from Adam at WENB regarding PES2013. Apparently he will be directly involved with the development of the game, but in what capacity he's not said. I guess it will all be announced when the next podcast seasons starts. The indications are of a new engine.

Whether you love, hate or are indifferent about the guy, having someone who is essentially 'one of us' on the PES team is actually very good news. I'm certainly not going to get hyped about PES2013 until I've played the final code, but regardless this is something we should all be positive about.

 

[Jamezinho]

Nah stuff it. Had some screenshots that showed 7 men camped out in the box from the Man City game lol. Would only stir up trouble in here

Only seven. That's an open game in PES terms.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Nah stuff it. Had some screenshots that showed 7 men camped out in the box from the Man City game lol. Would only stir up trouble in here

So basically PES 2012 Demo 2 had it SPOT ON?

 

[pj_puttz]

Only seven. That's an open game in PES terms.

The guy simply does not get it. He actually believes showing one still pic of a penalty box with 7 defenders in it is some sort of proof that the PES AI has it's ultra-defensive strategy spot on and is "realistic".

Did those 7 players stay in or around the box for most of the game? Of course they didn't. Look at the space Cavani created for himself for his second goal, how often do you manage to get that sort of room in the box in PES when playing against the AI?

These flaws are so ball-achingly obvious it really makes me laugh to read people like Calcio try to defend them by saying things like "Look! Look! A team had seven defenders in the box for about 1 minute during a game! PES IS realistic after all!"

I mean FFS.

 

[Srider]

Nah stuff it. Had some screenshots that showed 7 men camped out in the box from the Man City game lol. Would only stir up trouble in here

Why? I don't think anyone is saying playing tight defense and dropping deep shouldn't be in the game. The problem is that you have no real control over it outside of making drastic formation changes.

The other problem is that even when you have 9 guys defending, higher difficulty CPU has no problem dribbling through 3 or 4 defenders or shooting through everyone or be in perfect position for second chances.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

There has been some quite interesting talk from Adam at WENB regarding PES2013. Apparently he will be directly involved with the development of the game, but in what capacity he's not said. I guess it will all be announced when the next podcast seasons starts. The indications are of a new engine.

Whether you love, hate or are indifferent about the guy, having someone who is essentially 'one of us' on the PES team is actually very good news. I'm certainly not going to get hyped about PES2013 until I've played the final code, but regardless this is something we should all be positive about.

That's interesting....I wonder if he'll become a fully paid up member of the dev team, because if he's not, then he facking well should be. Again though, I'll believe any claims they make of a new PES when I see it.

Referring to earlier mentions of the deep defences, and I think they're so deep to help the CPU's pressure tactics. The CPU capitalises on having deep defence mainly due to the ability to sprint in packs non-stop for 90 minutes. The fact that it's so deep allows double or triple pressing, even quadruple pressing tactics without being drawn out or becoming ragged at the back. They can commit to challenging in numbers because their sprinting and close proximity to almost their entire team in the box means there's always cover.

The only way the CPU can keep up this type of pressure is by sprinting. The fact that stamina has no effect whatsoever on players is laughable really, and until that's sorted there is nothing they can do to properly try and recreate the game. Sport is dominated by fitness and the limits of what the body is capable of, so when I see a team manfully pressing, sprinting non stop, cramming men at the back then sprinting out on the break as the CPU does in PES, I'd expect that tactic will weaken those players the further the match goes on because no team can match those stamina and energy levels. The way the CPU plays, then from 65-70 minutes onwards, they should be slower, passing more erratic, make marking and positioning worse, because they should be physically shattered. On the other hand, if I've been making the ball do the work and keeping possession then I should be more fresh, quicker and have more concentration than the CPU. It needs to have some kind of consequence for expending the energy it does by keeping things tight at the back, but it doesn't. In fact, somehow the game does the opposite and makes the CPU more physically aggressive, faster, with more pinpoint passing the longer the game goes on.

After all, coaches always tell players learning the trade to "let the ball do the work", and there's a very good reason for that. Konami seem to completely ignore it though.

 

[P34SEMM]

So Adams getting involved. Thats either great or worrying bearing in mind he gave PES12 9/10!

 

[pj_puttz]

There has been some quite interesting talk from Adam at WENB regarding PES2013. Apparently he will be directly involved with the development of the game, but in what capacity he's not said. I guess it will all be announced when the next podcast seasons starts. The indications are of a new engine.

Whether you love, hate or are indifferent about the guy, having someone who is essentially 'one of us' on the PES team is actually very good news. I'm certainly not going to get hyped about PES2013 until I've played the final code, but regardless this is something we should all be positive about.

Says it all that we're all hoping for a decent PES game in 2013 just over 1 month after the 2012 version has hit the shelves.

If (and it's a big if) Adam actually does work on the game I doubt very much he'll have any great influence on the final product. He's not going to overrule Seabass is he? He's more likely to become a yes man to keep his job on the dev team for years to come than turn up ranting about how shit PES 2012 was and how it needs to be sorted out for 2013.

I'm a cynical sod aren't I?

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

So Adams getting involved. Thats either great or worrying bearing in mind he gave PES12 9/10!

He gave it an 8.5, Alan Curdie gave it a 9. However Adam did give PES 2008 an 8 and PES 2009 an 8 The guy is very easily pleased when it comes to PES, reading the WENB forum it seems as if he is creating PES 2013 himself and wants to take full credit or all the flak when released which im finding really odd.

 

[Srider]

The only way the CPU can keep up this type of pressure is by sprinting. The fact that stamina has no effect whatsoever on players is laughable really, and until that's sorted there is nothing they can do to properly try and recreate the game. Sport is dominated by fitness and the limits of what the body is capable of, so when I see a team manfully pressing, sprinting non stop, cramming men at the back then sprinting out on the break as the CPU does in PES, I'd expect that tactic will weaken those players the further the match goes on because no team can match those stamina and energy levels. The way the CPU plays, then from 65-70 minutes onwards, they should be slower, passing more erratic, make marking and positioning worse, because they should be physically shattered. On the other hand, if I've been making the ball do the work and keeping possession then I should be more fresh, quicker and have more concentration than the CPU. It needs to have some kind of consequence for expending the energy it does by keeping things tight at the back, but it doesn't. In fact, somehow the game does the opposite and makes the CPU more physically aggressive, faster, with more pinpoint passing the longer the game goes on.

After all, coaches always tell players learning the trade to "let the ball do the work", and there's a very good reason for that. Konami seem to completely ignore it though.

I think Konami has gotten alot of the elements right with PES2012, but like you said, when the CPU ignores key elements of football such as stamina and fitness, the whole balance is thrown out of the window. This is why scripting or stat boosting needs to go. Only when the game is fair can the work they have put into the game surface itself.

Right now anything good about the game is ruined by small but obviously flawed design decisions such as this stamina issue.

 

[P34SEMM]

ah yes - my mistake. It was indeed Curdie who gave it 9!

From the last podcast though I detected that Adam was really disapointed with PES12 and thought his initial rating was too high. If you havent heard it then please do as its Curdie saying its great with a few things needing adjusting but Adam isnt so convinced.

Adam is also saying the next patch released by Konami is in association with WENB (or along those lines).

They must have asked their forums for their major problems. Id be happy with the AI not parking the bus and shooting fixed. That would do me until PES13

 

[Lami]

He said that? Nothing changed then.

 

[Jamezinho]

They (wenb) do it every year though. Hype the game, praise it, give it good scores then after the dust settles they can be really down on it. I guess we can all be like that with new games though. Familiarity with a game is the only way to see it's true faults.

They can almost be forgiven for doing the same this year. PES2012 has been a strange one. The majority of us were buzzing about the game when the demos hit, but that all changed with final release. If the preview code Adam played months before release was based on the demos then most of us would have given the game a decent score too.

Regarding Adam/WENB and PES2013 - if he's still working for Ubisoft then I'm intrigued as to what kind of role he will be working in with Konami?

 

[Keith Houchen]

He gave it an 8.5, Alan Curdie gave it a 9. However Adam did give PES 2008 an 8 and PES 2009 an 8 The guy is very easily pleased when it comes to PES, reading the WENB forum it seems as if he is creating PES 2013 himself and wants to take full credit or all the flak when released which im finding really odd.

Actually, Adam gave PES2012 an 8. It was on the podcast immediately after release. He spoke the score very quietly at the end when they were all giving their scores.

 

[Ameppe]

They (wenb) do it every year though. Hype the game, praise it, give it good scores then after the dust settles they can be really down on it. I guess we can all be like that with new games though. Familiarity with a game is the only way to see it's true faults.

They can almost be forgiven for doing the same this year. PES2012 has been a strange one. The majority of us were buzzing about the game when the demos hit, but that all changed with final release. If the preview code Adam played months before release was based on the demos then most of us would have given the game a decent score too.

Regarding Adam/WENB and PES2013 - if he's still working for Ubisoft then I'm intrigued as to what kind of role he will be working in with Konami?

i'm not too happy that Adam is "involved" in pes 2013 development...
first, it's Adam we are talking about: read on wenb, he is still defending Konami even with the noticeable step backward from pes 2011 to pes 2012
second, how can he be involved with the game development if the whole process happens in Japan, and he will never go there (i suppose) to show in which parts the series must really evolve
he continues saying that he is the one searching for a game engine to be used for Pes 2013 but i just think he is too optimistic his (and community ) ideas will influence in a noticeable way the game development
in my opinion at the end of the day it's still Seabass who decides 80% of Pes development, fans feedback is a small part of the process, and Adam involvement is no different

well, that is, unless he goes to Japan and works side by side with Pes Productions, but this will never happen

 

[Jamezinho]

i'm not too happy that Adam is "involved" in pes 2013 development...
first, it's Adam we are talking about: read on wenb, he is still defending Konami even with the noticeable step backward from pes 2011 to pes 2012
second, how can he be involved with the game development if the whole process happens in Japan, and he will never go there (i suppose) to show in which parts the series must really evolve
he continues saying that he is the one searching for a game engine to be used for Pes 2013 but i just think he is too optimistic his (and community ) ideas will influence in a noticeable way the game development
in my opinion at the end of the day it's still Seabass who decides 80% of Pes development, fans feedback is a small part of the process, and Adam involvement is no different

well, that is, unless he goes to Japan and works side by side with Pes Productions, but this will never happen

Of course, and the part highlighted in bold is exactly how it should be. I'm sure Adam's involvement is nothing more than in a feedback capacity. But as I've already said, love or hate the guy, having someone like him involved is something that should be seen as positive. We always criticise Konami for not listening, not embracing new (Western) ideas. Well, now we potentially have a spokesperson directly involved with Konami.

I've not been the biggest fan of Adam and the way he runs his forums, but he's a fan of PES like all of us and cares passionately about the game. From listening to him it's clear his views on what needs to improve are the same as all of ours.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

I've not been the biggest fan of Adam and the way he runs his forums, but he's a fan of PES like all of us and cares passionately about the game. From listening to him it's clear his views on what needs to improve are the same as all of ours.

I agree but at the same time somewhat im worried that Konami need to be told what is right and wrong with their game.

 

[Robbery]

Still kind of strange to see how a lot of you guys don't like the game. I do understand some of the negative arguments (like CPU parking the bus, it is really annoying some times) but i think some arguments are a little over the top to be honest.

I believe people won't enjoy this game unless they find a effective way to defend. A lot of the negative arguments has do to with "cheating AI", "can't stop them from scoring". And of course if you can't stop them from scoring and countering the game will be no fun at all.

In my current league cup it is halftime of the season and i played 17 league matches. I concede 10 goals so far and i don't feel cheated, because i can stop the CPU from scoring. I have much more problems to create good chances to score, my team is really exhausted at this stage of the season but i don't feel the CPU scores whenever they want to.



Though i played a very bad seasons offensively most of the time i manage to stay on top of the table, because of my solid defensive game. I believe, if i couldn't stop the CPU from scoring it would be a frustrating season and i would not be on top of the table.

Today i played game 17, the last game of the first round of my season, away against Kaiserslautern. I decided to record it and i will upload it to youtube. It was a terrible game offensively, i still managed to win 2-0. I played 2 x 15 mins and allowed only 3 shots (one on goal). Two of them are presents i give away airy.

I truly believe the only way to enjoy this game playing against the CPU is to stop them from scoring at will, permanently. If you are not able to stop them from scoring you will feel cheated and you will not fall in love with this game.

Oh, almost forgot. I would love to add something to the "hate" list. It is halftime at my season, my players got a 3 week break without playing any games and they are still very much exhausted. It seems some of them don't recover at all after a 3 week off. That is really bad and stupid. How will i survive a season if my players are almost dead after just 20 matches?

 

[Jamezinho]

The game against the CPU needs to feel more natural. In real-life not every team attempts a Lazarus style comeback when they go two or three goals down. Some teams are just outclassed from start to finish.

In PES2012 it's obviously apparent when the scripting kicks in and that shouldn't happen. I want to play realistic, believable football, not a game of 'fight the scripting'.

PES always has been scripted to an extent but never this bad. I'm usually ok with it as scripting is a part of the PES drama and magic but this year it's gone too far.

 

[Robbery]

The game against the CPU needs to feel more natural. In real-life not every team attempts a Lazarus style comeback when they go two or three goals down.

But is it really every team? In my current league it is not. In my last game against Kaiserslautern for example i was leading 1-0 at halftime and they manage to shot one more time at my goal. Of course they tried everything the last 5 minutes but beside that i was more fighting with my own game.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Some of you take the bait so easily lol. Seriously though - someone said "at least 9 men" behind the ball - there's not too many more players left beyond 9 my friend. The screenshot I had was showing a few separate occassions, how when 2 or 3 players go forward, the opposition had 6 or 7 players camped out. So it kind of makes sense that if you have half your team attacking the other team's penalty box, that they'd at least have enough players to cover yours and then some.

Whether it's the defenders fault or the tactics of the attacking AI for not getting forward quickly enough, I'm not sure yet.

I also had a look at some saved replays of goals I scored on PES and it was 7 v 3 at the back. NOT 9 players vs 3.

I've also played games where the opposition pin me back in my half - now it doesnt happen all the time, but like I say, neither does the 10 men behind the ball theory that some of you sprout.

No the game is not perfect. i've said it before and despite Puttz's comments, I DO see the flaws with the game. I just think the frequency with which some of you see these issues is blown up a little. That's all.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

The game against the CPU needs to feel more natural. In real-life not every team attempts a Lazarus style comeback when they go two or three goals down. Some teams are just outclassed from start to finish.

In PES2012 it's obviously apparent when the scripting kicks in and that shouldn't happen. I want to play realistic, believable football, not a game of 'fight the scripting'.

PES always has been scripted to an extent but never this bad. I'm usually ok with it as scripting is a part of the PES drama and magic but this year it's gone too far.

I think overall, whether you're playing a human or the CPU it should be a bit more free. Like zero assistance passing but make that apply to loose balls, shooting, crossing etc. That might make a good difference.

Because 1 v 1, this game is fantastic. Against the CPU it does vary from good to frustrating. I will try some of the stat changes that Chimps has been working on and see what difference that makes.

Interesting to see what this new engine talk is for PES 2013. I thought they were just going to focus on visuals for PES 2013. I can't see something being totally trebuilt in a year. Hrmmm....