The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[Miro]

Shame, maybe next year.

No, next year it will be the same crap, cause change can only come with next generation of consoles, only then will Konami come with new engine, and then it will all be decided, if they come up with another shit engine like this it will mean the end of this serie ( same that happened to once great simulation of hockey NHL 2k ).

You will still buy it like rest of us, cause you remember good years you spent with this serie and then you ll be just angry, but milions of players just download the demo and say bye bye Konami.

My friends that were once great fans of this game simply dont even try to play it anymore, its so bad.
I know internet sites where people used to play PES and they are now gone or started to play FIFA.

We all loved PES and remember great times with it, but its gone forget it.

This game has no gameplay, it has no online, it has no licences, it has no sound and no graphic, just good memories make some people to buy it again and again hoping that miracle has happened, it didnt.

What worries me most is Seabass, I ve red somewhere in one interview, he said : I honestly think we are little ahead of FIFA.
If its not just PR talk and he really thinks that , he is out of his mind and serie is totally doomed.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

No, next year it will be the same crap, cause change can only come with next generation of consoles, only then will Konami come with new engine, and then it will all be decided, if they come up with another shit engine like this it will mean the end of this serie ( same that happened to once great simulation of hockey NHL 2k ).

You will still buy it like rest of us, cause you remember good years you spent with this serie and then you ll be just angry, but milions of players just download the demo and say bye bye Konami.

My friends that were once great fans of this game simply dont even try to play it anymore, its so bad.
I know internet sites where people used to play PES and they are now gone or started to play FIFA.

We all loved PES and remember great times with it, but its gone forget it.

This game has no gameplay, it has no online, it has no licences, it has no sound and no graphic, just good memories make some people to buy it again and again hoping that miracle has happened, it didnt.

What worries me most is Seabass, I ve red somewhere in one interview, he said : I honestly think we are little ahead of FIFA.
If its not just PR talk and he really thinks that , he is out of his mind and serie is totally doomed.

Really? No gameplay??

Maybe your comments will make more sense on the next generation of forums

 

[P34SEMM]

Speaking as someone who has had Fifa, traded it for PES, traded back to Fifa and finally traded back to pes - I dont see how a PES player of a certain amount of years can enjoy Fifa. Maybe its just me. Well, it isnt as all my mates who left PES for Fifa are slowly coming back.

Fifa to me is a game that you want when you are having a mare on PES - when something isnt quite right or you get pissed off with an animation error.
So you play Fifa - and after all the bells and whistles - you remember why you love PES.

Dont me wrong I am massively disapointed with PES12 but for me after much back and forth trading games PES is the better game.

As I said maybe its just me!

 

[DuduBR9]

Tbh, thank God this gen is close to it's end, because football games were really crap, no matter how much pes had been improved since pes 2010.

IMO, unfortunetly Fifa is pure marteking, it's a very underrated game. Of course Fifa series really had some very good improvements compared to the crap it used to be on last gen, but Fifa in it's previous and current version is far from it could be after fifa 08 (this one is far from perfect, but it was in the right direction), and it's from what the media and people make it sound. The marketng campaign annoyes me so much (lol), it makes me hate the game.

And pes... no coments. Ok, it had some very good improvements in the last 2 years, but it's far, faarrr from being what everyone really expected on this gen. And i'm finding CPU Ai so boring to play against in pes 2012, and technologically speaking, the game is very bad to this gen standard.

I probably won't sell my copy, but i honestly has no hope with football game this gen.

 

[Expander]

What a mess this series has become. Once a brutal simulation of the real thing, the game's declining sales and ageing technology have left its developers clutching at straws, slapping things on and yanking other things around in an aimless attempt to stay relevant.

With a ping pong passing mechanic, a ball that rolls like a balloon and shoots like a wet paper bag and player animation that looks little better than the PS2 days I got the strangest feeling playing Pro Evo 2012. I wasn't playing a Pro Evo game any more. I was playing Virtua Striker 2012, a stiff, arcade representation of football that's about as enjoyable as playing the real thing with a stick up your ass and a twenty pound ball.

It still doesn't have important licensing deals (like the Premier League), still has characters who open their mouths like South Park's Terrence & Phillip and still has some of the worst sports game commentary of all time. By all rights, this should have been the year Pro Evolution was finally and mercifully branded irrelevant and consigned to the touchline.

This man said it all. All other words are irrelevant. This is true, you may like it or not but thats you can do about it, because he is right.

This is a fantastic post,and sums up in a nutshell what i currently think of pes2012.

Bravo,you echo the setiments of so many people.This is the current reality of PES as a franchise and i cant see it changing.

Year on year we are promised a PES that will step up in almost every department but its the same smoke and mirrors PR bull.

Seabass and co cant even seem to get the fundamental basics of football right anymore.I dont think people have become more sinnacle and nitpicky,because we are all just judging nextgen pes against previous iterations of the series and what konami were doing in the ninties.

More then anything they need to reach for the skys again,produce something thats completely revolutionary like PES on the ps2 was and the ISS series by majorA.

Despite what a lot of people believe,todays consoles can produce amazing games with the power and amount of memory that is available to developers.Look at the evolution of so many genres and how each iteration pushes the technical envelope that little bit further.Even crytek got the original crysis running on the xbox360,something that would of been considered impossible 2 years ago.

WEPs,are confined in by the walls they created and cant seem to see past the limitations of 8-axis passing and shooting and the mechanics of the d-pad.This is what has created the problems we see now in pes2012.Ps2 control and gameplay mechanics that are trying to be something that they were never designed to be.

Now WENB are getting on board to help with the design of pes2013,god help us all.How the hell are they meant to build a new game in less then a year.If pes2013 hasnt been in development for more then two years now we are all doomed.This is the problem with football games now,one year is simply not enough,so the same formula just becomes remixed,which is creating more and more apathy with football gamers.Its exactly what atari did to the game industry in the 80s which nearly destroyed it when it crashed.Just producing indentikit games with minimal tweaks.

 

[Expander]

Its all become about the money honey,with even ea being very guilty of this.How much has there game really changed,fifa is still a one trick pony,one that is dressed up in fancy clothes and fancy sound FX.Bottom line,despite all eas technical advancements its still a planet no gravity game with ugly player models and the most mechanical gameplay.

I really hope that konami have been working on a new football game for the new nintendo console coming out next year,one that finally leaves the ageing mechanics of pes on the ps2 behind and brings back some of the VISION of majorA ON THE N64.A viable alternative to restrictive movement and simplified stat based gameplay mechanics.

Something that embraces the old way again,something that konami themselves created back in the 90s,real 360 degree analog movement with real analog passing and shooting that we the end user have full control of.No super cancel and a no ai system that renders us the end user a passenger to the game.

I and i know many others want to have full control of the game we are playing.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

Year on year we are promised a PES that will step up in almost every department but its the same smoke and mirrors PR bull.

The sad thing is the fansites are now on Konami's payroll so as well as the PR nonsense from Jon Murphy the likes of PESfan and WENB are also spinning PR bullshit constantly The lead up to PES 2012 had both sites saying PES 2012 was easily the best PES ever.... Then the reviews came in and it had went to the best to one of the best with a 9 rating

 

[Expander]

The sad thing is the fansites are now on Konami's payroll so as well as the PR nonsense from Jon Murphy the likes of PESfan and WENB are also spinning PR bullshit constantly The lead up to PES 2012 had both sites saying PES 2012 was easily the best PES ever.... Then the reviews came in and it had went to the best to one of the best with a 9 rating

Spot on,and ive said it before that there only protecting there own self interests.They need pes to sell because if it doesnt what are they.The pes on the ps2 appreciation society.

What grates is this constant back tracking to we just want pes on the ps2 back.Well in my opinion is it really that different now.Every pes for the last ten years has shared exactly the same DNA.

Pes needs a complete rethink and rebuilding from the ground up,a different VISION.Everyones getting bored with playing the same remixed game.Jon murphy needs to get seabass to get his head out of his arse and take a good hard look at these forums.Its not people hating for the sake of hating,because ive traded in both pes2012 and fifa12 this year.What does either game really offer apart from a new skin that i wasnt getting five years ago.

Then i buy SKYRIM,and think this is a developer that wants to make a better game then its forebears.Improving on almost every aspect of oblivion and everything that was wrong with it.

 

[Northzzz]

Speaking as someone who has had Fifa, traded it for PES, traded back to Fifa and finally traded back to pes - I dont see how a PES player of a certain amount of years can enjoy Fifa. Maybe its just me. Well, it isnt as all my mates who left PES for Fifa are slowly coming back.

Fifa to me is a game that you want when you are having a mare on PES - when something isnt quite right or you get pissed off with an animation error.
So you play Fifa - and after all the bells and whistles - you remember why you love PES.

Dont me wrong I am massively disapointed with PES12 but for me after much back and forth trading games PES is the better game.

As I said maybe its just me!

This

 

[Deluxe]

I do get it. But there's a difference between venting and blaming the game for things which happen nowhere near as much as people make them out to. For example, maybe some statements should say, this game could be so much better if keepers caught or parried shots straight at them that they should save, instead of "keepers are crap. this game is broken."

There's a lot of generalisations in here that are making mountains out of molehills.

So either you want to play this game and there's certain problems you want addressed by Konami (whether they are gamebreaking to you or whether they are small niggles) OR you don't want to play this game but keep coming here to remind everyone why you don't like it.

Calcio, open your eyes and your mind: GKs on PES 6 are much better than PES 2012, and is a 6 years old game! How is that possible? This game is called EVOLUTION Soccer for god sake, not INVOLUTION.

Please do me a favor and play the latest Shollym patch for PES 6 for PC.
I installed it yesterday and it was the best match i've played by far. (Argentinos Junior v/s Real Sociedad) Best patch in the world.
If you don't. Like i see you love youtube, search GKs on PES6 and then GKs on 2012 videos, and compare.

And i'm generalizing, because every year this game falls apart.

Obviously i'm pissed off with Konami.

 

[Jamezinho]

Seriously - still going on about the keepers? I played a few 15 minute games with my mate the other night and they were making incredible saves and sometimes double/triple saves. The goals they conceded had nothing cringe worthy about them.

You might see the occassional odd looking moment but I challenge you to keep an honest record of how many mistakes the keepers make as a percentage of shots faced. If it's any higher than real life I'd be very surprised.

p.s. some of the diving/stretching saves look fantastic now and are well balanced to the long shots.

If you don't like the game fair enough, but just spruiking about how bad keepers supposedly are is just insulting.

Keepers are poor. I didn't think this was really up for debate. In the earliest builds back in the summer they were said to be poor. In demo 1 they were poor. In demo 2 they were poor. In version 1.00 they were poor. In version 1.01 they were poor. In version 1.02 they are still poor.

Sorry if that's insulting but I thought it was blatantly obvious. Explain it away all you like - the keepers are just bad.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

They probably look alot worse if you play Fifa. For me, at present, no real concerns so far on 1.02. Jussi is substantially better for my Bolton team than he was on 1.00, 1.01.

 

[Jamezinho]

They probably look alot worse if you play Fifa. For me, at present, no real concerns so far on 1.02. Jussi is substantially better for my Bolton team than he was on 1.00, 1.01.

No offence but if you played Fifa you'd see how keepers should be.

 

[Expander]

They probably look alot worse if you play Fifa. For me, at present, no real concerns so far on 1.02. Jussi is substantially better for my Bolton team than he was on 1.00, 1.01.

Jimmy i think your great brother,but why do you defend this indentikit shit every year.Buy some other games and see what your missing.Failing that get a real football and go for a kick about around the park.Then look how realistic the ball physics are and your friends realistic motions and expressions.

I admire your loyalty,but you sound more blinkered by the year.Even you a footballing expert must see this game isnt representative of the sport we love.

No offence intended,but you sound like the captain of the titanic,going down with the sinking ship still proudly shouting this ships un-sinkable.Pes is like being in love with someone thats cheating on you and spending your money,your in love with what you think something is,rather then what it is.

Im sure your coming back at me with something but save your breath.If its your bag then im happy for you.

 

[P34SEMM]

No offence but if you played Fifa you'd see how keepers should be.

Agree with this. Fifa has keeper animations, saves, kicks and even manorisms after saving the ball perfect. Love the one where the keeper (with his hands) telling his team to calm it down.

PES13 needs a massive Keeper (and other things!) overhaul. By overhaul I mean more than just getting the AI to park the bus and protect the keepers better. I have seen some improvement since intial release though and I have seen some great saves as well to be fair.

Keepers have been the biggest pitfull of PES since PES2008.

The keeper animation I hate most is the one where the keeper jumps up straight, catches the ball on his side and falls to the ground.
This animation has been around since ISS Deluxe. They really do need to add some new keeper moves in PES13.
They just need to rent Fifa out for a night and look at keepers.

 

[pj_puttz]

Jimmy i think your great brother,but why do you defend this indentikit shit every year.Buy some other games and see what your missing.Failing that get a real football and go for a kick about around the park.Then look how realistic the ball physics are and your friends realistic motions and expressions.

I admire your loyalty,but you sound more blinkered by the year.Even you a footballing expert must see this game isnt representative of the sport we love.

No offence intended,but you sound like the captain of the titanic,going down with the sinking ship still proudly shouting this ships un-sinkable.Pes is like being in love with someone thats cheating on you and spending your money,your in love with what you think something is,rather then what it is.

Im sure your coming back at me with something but save your breath.If its your bag then im happy for you.

Bang on mate, absolutely bang on.

I cannot for the life of me understand how certain people can defend this game and deny it's failings in the face of such overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Either they just like arguing with people, which is fine, or they really dont see what nearly everyone else on this forum sees every single time they play a game of PES 2012

I find the latter really hard to believe because the flaws pretty much slap you right in the face every time you load up the game so only the truly blinkered, deluded and/or completely blind would fail to notice them.

We're not operating on some higher plain of consciousness here, we're merely stating the bleedin obvious! The bleedin obvious that some people cannot or will not see.

I cant help but feel it's some sort of misguided brand loyalty to PES and that if any other game these people played had even HALF of the flaws PES has they would throw the disc away in disgust.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

Jimmy i think your great brother,but why do you defend this indentikit shit every year.Buy some other games and see what your missing.Failing that get a real football and go for a kick about around the park.Then look how realistic the ball physics are and your friends realistic motions and expressions.

I admire your loyalty,but you sound more blinkered by the year.Even you a footballing expert must see this game isnt representative of the sport we love.

No offence intended,but you sound like the captain of the titanic,going down with the sinking ship still proudly shouting this ships un-sinkable.Pes is like being in love with someone thats cheating on you and spending your money,your in love with what you think something is,rather then what it is.

Im sure your coming back at me with something but save your breath.If its your bag then im happy for you.

Oh jeez, do me a fricking favour. If I didn't enjoy the game I would be the first to slate it. I'm loving it, if other people aren't, so then so be it. I honestly couldnt care less. But to suggest I'm merely being loyal to a brand simply because it PES is as laughable as 90% of your entire posts. In my opinion.

 

[pj_puttz]

Oh jeez, do me a fricking favour. If I didn't enjoy the game I would be the first to slate it. I'm loving it, if other people aren't, so then so be it. I honestly couldnt care less. But to suggest I'm merely being loyal to a brand simply because it PES is as laughable as 90% of your entire posts. In my opinion.

Then, Jimmy, we are left to conclude that you wouldn't know a bugged and deeply flawed game if it bit you on the ass.

In my opinion.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

The game has bugs and flaws every single year, without fail. Some years the flaws are worse than the previous. You live with them, and hopefully find alot of enjoyment still from the product. That's what I do, and I do it for the full 12 months, as PES is all I play.

 

[Expander]

Oh jeez, do me a fricking favour. If I didn't enjoy the game I would be the first to slate it. I'm loving it, if other people aren't, so then so be it. I honestly couldnt care less. But to suggest I'm merely being loyal to a brand simply because it PES is as laughable as 90% of your entire posts. In my opinion.

Im a games programmer and cut my career teeth as a tester.Your not,nor could you ever be,because you lack objectivity and your blind to the glaring faults within the game.Theres denial,believing somethings more then it is and just plain blinkered.

Nuff said..lets leave it at that,this is the unhappy thread for a reason.

 

[Jamezinho]

The game has bugs and flaws every single year, without fail. Some years the flaws are worse than the previous. You live with them, and hopefully find alot of enjoyment still from the product. That's what I do, and I do it for the full 12 months, as PES is all I play.

You probably have a lot more tolerance for the flaws and dated feel to the game if you don't spend much time playing other games as reference.

That's not a criticism or anything, but personally when I switch off Forza 4 or Battlefield 3 and pop in the PES2012 disc, the archaic feel to the game is immediately apparent.

PES is essentially three or four years behind where it should be. If PES2012 came up against Fifa 08 I don't think we'd be so harsh on it.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I have no doubt that is the case Jamez, I really do. Playing Fifa 12 with my son show's me what is possible. But, the bottom-line is, PES still, for me, plays and feels like the sport I know. So even with it's flaws and poorer graphics, animations, visuals, audio etc etc, it's still my only option. And, I really love it.

UFC 3 is out in Feb, that will be the only other game I'll play all year.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

You probably have a lot more tolerance for the flaws and dated feel to the game if you don't spend much time playing other games as reference.

That's not a criticism or anything, but personally when I switch off Forza 4 or Battlefield 3 and pop in the PES2012 disc, the archaic feel to the game is immediately apparent.

PES is essentially three or four years behind where it should be. If PES2012 came up against Fifa 08 I don't think we'd be so harsh on it.

100% Spot on, I do feel PES are now at where Fifa was back in 08. Luckily for Konami EA are not making massive strides and if they were to finally build a new engine with great gameplay then there is no reason why it couldnt be as good if not better.

 

[Expander]

You probably have a lot more tolerance for the flaws and dated feel to the game if you don't spend much time playing other games as reference.

That's not a criticism or anything, but personally when I switch off Forza 4 or Battlefield 3 and pop in the PES2012 disc, the archaic feel to the game is immediately apparent.

PES is essentially three or four years behind where it should be. If PES2012 came up against Fifa 08 I don't think we'd be so harsh on it.

You talk alot of sense and your posts are always original,well thought out and balanced.Offering up both the pros and cons of any argument.

Are all are expectations that over-inflated,i dont think they are.Pes2012 doesnt even use a tenth of the power available to developers today.Its just lazy recycling of old tech at almost zero cost.Its not like konami dont know all this already,but they just dont seem to listen or do they seem willing to put the investment in that is so badly needed.Times have moved on as have games.Like your example of forza 4,look how that has taken what GT on the ps2 laid down and taken it to another level both interms of its damage modelling,sheer scale and scope,improving with each iteration.

Theres no hiding place anymore,even the japanese are starting to see the cracks in there once beloved pes.

Its not always about tech though although it does help.Take the new zelda for example,who would of believed that that would be technically possible on the wii.A clear demonstration that if you willing to push the envelope,anything can be achieved.

Has seabass been exposed as someone who struck GOLD once and lacks the real vision and talent to do anything more then what he achieved ten years ago.In all honesty i personally believe this is the truth.

Excuses like konami is a small developer with no money doesnt hold any water,they got very rich off the back of metal gear solid and pes over the years.Its now time to give something back.

The wheel doesnt have to be re-invented,but theres no reason why we are now playing football games that arent any superior to what they were 15 years ago,graphics are better,so is the animation and physics in fifas case.But the limitations of the gameplay of yesteryear is still heavily in place.

 

[Northzzz]

Regarding the keepers and comparing them to Fifa. Fifa keepers have anticipation whereas PES' don't. That's the biggest thing as far as i'm concerned. They react to the gameplay at all times, not just when they're called upon. They feel a bit on rails at time but at least most of the time they're quite dynamic at reacting to any given scenario and moving in accordance to the position of the ball outfield. Personally i think they're getting more realistic in Fifa. Fifa 09,10 and 11 they were just too good. They made so many unrealistic saves because of the scripted nature of them. I still think they feel scripted because it's obviously written in Fifa's engine coding for them to act that way but they look better more realistic ever.

PES goalkeepers don't have anticipation. They don't move around expecting shots to come in. They stand still and then react most of the time, especially if the ball is outside of the box. The way they make diving saves from standing positions all the time is just laughable. It seems to defy natural human body momentum. Half of the other animations just look so awkward. It's really annoying when they chase balls that are obviously going out too (and in no danger of giving a corner away). In Fifa a keeper would just leave the ball. Again alluding to the notion that the keepers work with the general gameplay and don't seem to exist as a separate entity.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I've not played Fifa 12 enough to judge their keepers to be honest. My past issues with Fifa's keepers though were that they felt superhuman. To the point where it took away the unpredictable nature of shooting. If they have dumbed them down, that's a brilliant step forward.

Does anybody know if the keepers react to the situation in Fifa, i.e, will they still dive for a shot when unsighted ? Or do they react only when they see the flight of the ball ? That was another thing that irked me with previous Fifa keepers.

The animations of the keepers on Fifa though are truly incredible.

 

[Expander]

Weirdly the keepers in ISS back in the day put pes2012s keepers to shame,they might of parried alot but if you put them on level 3 they were simply amazing.But back then you could place the ball and direct fully as you had a manual modifier button for shooting,stats also played there part along with direct control.You could also control the elevation of shooting with the analog stick.A good Iss player on the n64,against the keepers on level 3 would have to have really soft hands and fantastic stick control.

Of course my point of reference is the japanese versions of ISS on the n64.The western versions felt more watered down and perfect striker 2 1999,pissed all over its western equivalent ISS 2000.

Konami need to take a look at those games,you could manually shoulder barge and push players over,as well as a myriad of other features that need to see the light of day again.Head tennis anybody!

 

[Miro]

Speaking as someone who has had Fifa, traded it for PES, traded back to Fifa and finally traded back to pes - I dont see how a PES player of a certain amount of years can enjoy Fifa. Maybe its just me. Well, it isnt as all my mates who left PES for Fifa are slowly coming back.

Fifa to me is a game that you want when you are having a mare on PES - when something isnt quite right or you get pissed off with an animation error.
So you play Fifa - and after all the bells and whistles - you remember why you love PES.

Dont me wrong I am massively disapointed with PES12 but for me after much back and forth trading games PES is the better game.

As I said maybe its just me!

Everytime someone says PES 08 - PES 12 is big crap comes this :

Yeah but FIFA too.

What is this all about people ? Maybe FIFA is biggest crap in the world maybe not, it doesnt change anything about fact that PES on current gen is biggest disapointment in history of game industry.
Lets face it.

lets ignore this game untill they come up with new engine and online experience, as for me I bought every game since ISS , I gave em my hard earned money, enough of this , you wont get a cent from me KONAMI !!!
I want new engine, new gameplay, new online without lags and Clubs mode as FIFA has, until then I wont pay a cent for this mess.
If everyone of you do it, then they will do something about their game.

 

[Robbery]

Regarding the keepers and comparing them to Fifa. Fifa keepers have anticipation whereas PES' don't. That's the biggest thing as far as i'm concerned. They react to the gameplay at all times, not just when they're called upon. They feel a bit on rails at time but at least most of the time they're quite dynamic at reacting to any given scenario and moving in accordance to the position of the ball outfield. Personally i think they're getting more realistic in Fifa. Fifa 09,10 and 11 they were just too good. They made so many unrealistic saves because of the scripted nature of them. I still think they feel scripted because it's obviously written in Fifa's engine coding for them to act that way but they look better more realistic ever.

I don't see much of a difference compared to FIFA 08,09, 10 and 11. They still way over the top in my opinion and still have so, so many unrealistic saves. I don't like them at all.

A keepers job is a tough job and it is the nature of their game to make mistakes. PES Keepers were terrible in the first two demos but right now they are solid. They react like human. The only problem i have with the PES keepers comes from slow grounded shots. They seem to react much to slow on grounded shots. But beside that i take them over FIFA keepers anytime.

If we talk about the quality and quantity of animations, FIFA keepers win easily.

 

[superleeds1]

Miro, the debate was going well until Your post.Dont addresss anyone as fanboys
or having brainwashed comments, right ?Everyone is entitled to there own opinion.Dont get personal.