The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[CalcioCalabrese]

Hey Rob - good to hear from you mate. How's the uni life?

Yeah as much as I enjoy FIFA, there is still that element of repetitiveness that creeps in. If I play against a friend (offline or online) it feels amazing for a couple of games and then its like groundhog day. PES feels a little more unpredictable, in a good way.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Thats what I said about fifa 12 and others disagree.

You can socre many types of goals in FIFA 12 and from all angles and go for games with no 2 goals the same. but IMO the build up play from box to box plays out almost the same every move.

a. counter attack from half way line 2v2 1v1 etc..

b. pass thorugh middle thrugh ball or long shot

c. pass down wing cut inside or cross


that is how every move/attack on FIFA is.

But in reality how varied are attacks anywyay?

This is true but if you look at the build up starting with passing the ball out from a goal kick towards the attacking third, it feels like the same over and over, which is tied in to what I said before about players being too static. They maintain their shape so well you can make the same 4 pass move from defence to midfield/attack every play.

In real life some teams would press you high up during a game (sometimes the whole game, but rarely) so you can't make the same pass out of defence. In FIFA this doesn't really happen unless you play against a human and then they try to cheaply intercept the pass from keeper to defender.

In terms of PES build up play, I find the AI tracks you differently to FIFA (it's arguable which one is more realistic) which opens up spaces in different parts of the pitch at different points in a game. This means you can put a ball into spaces where on FIFA they'd never open up against the AI.

I don't have the time or equipment to do this but if I was to compare a bunch of real life goals from some different leagues on any given weekend, and you looked at the scenarios in which the goals are scored (I'm talking lead up play and both team's positioning as well as the shot/cross/pass etc) I think you'd find PES resembles it more than FIFA does.

 

[pes4lyfe]

This is true but if you look at the build up starting with passing the ball out from a goal kick towards the attacking third, it feels like the same over and over, which is tied in to what I said before about players being too static. They maintain their shape so well you can make the same 4 pass move from defence to midfield/attack every play.

In real life some teams would press you high up during a game (sometimes the whole game, but rarely) so you can't make the same pass out of defence. In FIFA this doesn't really happen unless you play against a human and then they try to cheaply intercept the pass from keeper to defender.

In terms of PES build up play, I find the AI tracks you differently to FIFA (it's arguable which one is more realistic) which opens up spaces in different parts of the pitch at different points in a game. This means you can put a ball into spaces where on FIFA they'd never open up against the AI.

I don't have the time or equipment to do this but if I was to compare a bunch of real life goals from some different leagues on any given weekend, and you looked at the scenarios in which the goals are scored (I'm talking lead up play and both team's positioning as well as the shot/cross/pass etc) I think you'd find PES resembles it more than FIFA does.

I see what you are getting at and I think this is why as much as I enjoy fifa im always like theirs something not right about the game but i couldnt pinpoint it. And i think you are right formations on the picth are to perfect. games play out to perfectly.

In pes well form memory old pes a full back caught up the wing would leave a huge gap which could cost a goal if ball was intercepted and he didnt retreat etc.

Also I notice on FIFA if I get a plaeyr sent of its not a big deal. If I got a plyer on PEs sent off it had a huge effect. So there is definitely something going on with player placement throughout the game that is rather static or not so dynamic?

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

I should have posted my opinions in here really rather than the other thread, didn't quite think I'd get the response of people telling me it's just me and not the game but hey, never mind. I just don't accept that I can defend perfectly well with no real trouble for 15 games, yet randomly concede an equalising goal in the last 5-6 minutes of the match in 11 of them. If this was down to shit defending then I'd be letting in goals at all times throughout the match. Letting in a late goal that steals the game away from you happens now and again, I accept that, but I found in PES2012 that if you go into the last 10 mins with a 2-3 goal lead, it's fine. Go into the final 10 with a 1-0 lead or drawing, the AI somehow pull out a goal from nowhere virtually every time. That's not coincidence. Of those 11 late goals I'd say 80% of them were dodgy.

One goal I conceded, I had the ball at my defender's feet, I charged up the clear button, the charge bar filled, he didn't kick the ball. The AI then ran into him and the ball cannoned off the defender's leg, then rebounded off the AI player's shin, rolled slightly wide of my keeper who flopped to the ground and dribbled into the net for a totally glitched comedy goal. I look at the clock, it says 87 minutes. Great.

The 'late goal' factor has always happened in PES, but it used to work for and against you to replicate those dramatic moments in football, but Konami have got it awfully wrong this time, making it so blatant as to look like cheating.

One similar factor is the way ALL deflections, keeper parries at both ends, headed AI clearances from your corners etc seem to always fall perfectly for the CPU. It's driven me up the wall. Every clearance from a corner or ricochet will go straight to the AI.

I guess I'll stand by my earlier argument that I think the game is at least 5 years out of date in terms of visuals, sound, presentation, and the engine has been stretched beyond it's limits. For every one step forwards they take two steps back, and no better example is the FL mode. Somehow they've managed to try adding loads of stuff to add more immersion but then make certain core ML elements vastly more simplistic and less interactive. Some other bits they added are even downright illogical in how they work.

 

[shoemaker]

PES 2012 for me isnt much better than 2011. the shooting is still as random as ever. passing varies depending on what level of assistance you have it on. the basics of the game still dont feel like your in complete control of it and the cpu takes over a lot like.

 

[P34SEMM]

Agree that in FIFA a red card makes no difference.
I got to the end of a match before I realised that my defender had been sent off at beginning of 2nd half.
Made no difference at all as I won 2-0

 

[pes4lyfe]

Agree that in FIFA a red card makes no difference.
I got to the end of a match before I realised that my defender had been sent off at beginning of 2nd half.
Made no difference at all as I won 2-0

Exaclty and on PES you would have to make a sub and edit formation or youd likely lose the game or you would notice a huge gap on some area of the pitch.

What this means and how it works I dont understand?

Something is up with the FIFA formations and player movements that is not realsitic?

 

[Mousmus]

Re: PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Hi guys,

Tried to start a new thread but for some reason was not authorised, have a bit of a prob that maybe someone can help me out with.
Trying to play online MLO on the 360 and for the last couple of hours have been finding opponents only for them to dissapear on me after a couple of seconds, tried the quick game, coach mode and tournaments and same thing every time, reset my xbox, reset the internet and nothing doing.
Apologies if this is in the wrong section, any help or a pointer in the right direction would be appreciated.
Thx

 

[Master Kush]

This is true but if you look at the build up starting with passing the ball out from a goal kick towards the attacking third, it feels like the same over and over, which is tied in to what I said before about players being too static. They maintain their shape so well you can make the same 4 pass move from defence to midfield/attack every play.

In real life some teams would press you high up during a game (sometimes the whole game, but rarely) so you can't make the same pass out of defence. In FIFA this doesn't really happen unless you play against a human and then they try to cheaply intercept the pass from keeper to defender.

In terms of PES build up play, I find the AI tracks you differently to FIFA (it's arguable which one is more realistic) which opens up spaces in different parts of the pitch at different points in a game. This means you can put a ball into spaces where on FIFA they'd never open up against the AI.

I don't have the time or equipment to do this but if I was to compare a bunch of real life goals from some different leagues on any given weekend, and you looked at the scenarios in which the goals are scored (I'm talking lead up play and both team's positioning as well as the shot/cross/pass etc) I think you'd find PES resembles it more than FIFA does.

I agree that this is what makes PES more dynamic than its competitor. The sort of randomness inserted into the way formation and positioning plays out during a game gives the game that touch of realism resulting from the less repetition of build up play.

However, in saying that, I'm beginning to notice the PES 2012 perhaps went overboard with this aspect. I find there to be a huge lack of structure in the way teams defend. The backline is usually a mess, with defenders being spastic...they're all over the place rather than trying to adhere to a flat line. One reason for this is the implementation of the 'default' man marking system (Konami even acknowledged so much in those promo videos). Defenders stupidly stick to for example a forward making a deep run...even all the way to the six yard box when fellow defenders are positioned 20 yards away. This also happens in reverse with D tracking forwards back to the other half. We also all see the perplexing positioning of D on crosses...which IMO almost ruins the game as it seems like half the goals scored either by human and PC is done by abusing this flaw.

Whats even more strange is that occasionally a D will shut off and stop man marking a player almost randomly, and not only that, but also run off somewhere into open space for no reason and become useless.

The result from all of this is that you see a backline looking more like a backZ...which creates huge openings and unrealistic gaps. So, offsides are almost nonexistant in this game but IRL its a fundamental aspect of defending....basically its the rule that gives the game the structure it has.

The defensive structure of course also affects the way offense is played out. Too often I see clumps of players literally almost on top of each other. This ruins the flow of the game as you have to wait till they unglue from each other before you can continue attacking.

So, essentially Konami need to find the balance of the rigidness of 2011 and the randomness of 2012 in terms of the positioning of players on the pitch. I realize that this may be the most difficult thing to implement in the game; when it has to take into account various stats and player cards for each individual player and apply it to the whole.

 

[hitmanuk]

Agree that in FIFA a red card makes no difference.
I got to the end of a match before I realised that my defender had been sent off at beginning of 2nd half.
Made no difference at all as I won 2-0

So you are saying in FIFA 12 if I have my center back sent off I won't notice and I wont have to change anything? Im not sure we have been playing the same game as I have noiced it in career mode and have been punished by leaving my defence a man down several times

i agree with you. fifa-gameplay feels not that free like pes and this is what annoys me most. in terms of licence, presentation, features etc they are miles ahead of pes...
i would like to have a game with game mechanics of pes and a compliation of all good features and aspects of fifa and pes - would be great

try learning manual and the the game is as free as you want it to be

 

[Jamezinho]

If by "free" you mean completely free of individuality then yeah.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

LOL @ hitmanuk. I understand you don't like the latest few iterations of PES but do you need to jump into every constructive conversation that mentions FIFA and defend it like it's your family?

Manual opens up more free passing and crossing and gives some different outcomes yes but it's the player turning and runs in general that I have an issue with. Would be a better game if you were assisted but had more natural error in shooting and passing and players moved into space less rigidly.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Interesting post Master Kush. Have you tried much tinkering with tactical settings to see if it helps? I haven't yet but just asking?

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I should have posted my opinions in here really rather than the other thread, didn't quite think I'd get the response of people telling me it's just me and not the game but hey, never mind. I just don't accept that I can defend perfectly well with no real trouble for 15 games, yet randomly concede an equalising goal in the last 5-6 minutes of the match in 11 of them. If this was down to shit defending then I'd be letting in goals at all times throughout the match. Letting in a late goal that steals the game away from you happens now and again, I accept that, but I found in PES2012 that if you go into the last 10 mins with a 2-3 goal lead, it's fine. Go into the final 10 with a 1-0 lead or drawing, the AI somehow pull out a goal from nowhere virtually every time. That's not coincidence. Of those 11 late goals I'd say 80% of them were dodgy.

One goal I conceded, I had the ball at my defender's feet, I charged up the clear button, the charge bar filled, he didn't kick the ball. The AI then ran into him and the ball cannoned off the defender's leg, then rebounded off the AI player's shin, rolled slightly wide of my keeper who flopped to the ground and dribbled into the net for a totally glitched comedy goal. I look at the clock, it says 87 minutes. Great.

The 'late goal' factor has always happened in PES, but it used to work for and against you to replicate those dramatic moments in football, but Konami have got it awfully wrong this time, making it so blatant as to look like cheating.

One similar factor is the way ALL deflections, keeper parries at both ends, headed AI clearances from your corners etc seem to always fall perfectly for the CPU. It's driven me up the wall. Every clearance from a corner or ricochet will go straight to the AI.

I guess I'll stand by my earlier argument that I think the game is at least 5 years out of date in terms of visuals, sound, presentation, and the engine has been stretched beyond it's limits. For every one step forwards they take two steps back, and no better example is the FL mode. Somehow they've managed to try adding loads of stuff to add more immersion but then make certain core ML elements vastly more simplistic and less interactive. Some other bits they added are even downright illogical in how they work.

Just throwing out there mate but if you're leading or level, do you try and close the game out tactically or do you just play out the same formation? Not saying it would help in all the cases you mentioned, but PES is a tactical game and generally small changes can make enough of a difference to help. If you want to hold on for 3 points, put 10 men behind the ball and keep clearing it or wasting time. Foul players wherever you can. These things are done in real life but we try to be pure on a video game and complain that they score. Well in real life if you back off a player or you don't change to a defensive setup, chances are the other team will keep pushing until they score.

 

[pes4lyfe]

Just throwing out there mate but if you're leading or level, do you try and close the game out tactically or do you just play out the same formation? Not saying it would help in all the cases you mentioned, but PES is a tactical game and generally small changes can make enough of a difference to help. If you want to hold on for 3 points, put 10 men behind the ball and keep clearing it or wasting time. Foul players wherever you can. These things are done in real life but we try to be pure on a video game and complain that they score. Well in real life if you back off a player or you don't change to a defensive setup, chances are the other team will keep pushing until they score.

This is kinda true. And you should do this...IMO CPU AI revs it up if they need a goal or defends tough if they have lead in clsoign stages.

Its up to you to counter it as in real life, heavy defensive men behind ball or all out attack etc...

I just get lazy and play 4-4-2 and cba to even make subs soemtimes lol, then if you do that you cant complain if it goes tits up

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

That's right. Often I play around 8.30 - 9. Been at work all day in front of a computer then go to the gym and have dinner. My eyes are tired and I just want to have a few games. Every now and then I will spend time tweaking things and playing with sliders/settings but if I don't I have no right to complain that a team doesn't play the way I want out of the box. Some tweaking is needed to get the best out of the game for a particular team or a particular playing style. That's not the game's fault entirely - it's just how it is.

 

[leandropuc86]

Playing PES 2012 on Top Player is going to drive me nuts one of those days. That freaking fat japanese fella cant seem to make a game competitive without scripting.

I was winning a game 2-0 when all of a sudden, a CPU hits a free-kick, the ball goes through three of my defenders (me pushing square, X and everything else) and a guy running behind scores.

Then at the start of the second half, CPU makes a cross, non-selected defender steps away from attacker and they score once again, 2-2. Third goal was fair, I gave away the ball, but still man, that's just unnacceptable.

I ended drawing 3-3 but for christ sake, something has to be done about scripting. Teammate AI on attacking is quite alright, but defending becomes a little harder when your teammates do everything they can in order to allow the CPU to score, because that's what they do.

I want the game to make me think, and it achieves that sometimes. It makes me want to punch someone in the face the rest of the time though. Takatsuka or Murphy for that matter.

 

[leandropuc86]

Just throwing out there mate but if you're leading or level, do you try and close the game out tactically or do you just play out the same formation? Not saying it would help in all the cases you mentioned, but PES is a tactical game and generally small changes can make enough of a difference to help. If you want to hold on for 3 points, put 10 men behind the ball and keep clearing it or wasting time. Foul players wherever you can. These things are done in real life but we try to be pure on a video game and complain that they score. Well in real life if you back off a player or you don't change to a defensive setup, chances are the other team will keep pushing until they score.

That's what I do to mantain a lead but I'm in D2 with a far superior squad. I would like to go for a goal glut but PES doesnt seem to allow that 90% of the time. I dont want to kill time during the game, I want to play football.

PES doesnt give you a fair shot at that. I've found myself passing the ball for 50 mins at times. I won the game, but that's just boring. I'm brazilian, dunno, maybe that's why I dont wanna play tactical football, I wanna stay on the offensive lmao.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Haha when has a Brasilian ever defended

Depends though - sometimes you can break the AI's back and a goal rout will happen. I was up 3 nil after 25 mins on superstar a couple of weeks ago. Couldn't believe it. Won 3-1 in the end. But I played the same team away and they won 3-0 haha

 

[leandropuc86]

Haha when has a Brasilian ever defended

Depends though - sometimes you can break the AI's back and a goal rout will happen. I was up 3 nil after 25 mins on superstar a couple of weeks ago. Couldn't believe it. Won 3-1 in the end. But I played the same team away and they won 3-0 haha

Yeah, I managed to beat a team 5-1 some games ago. I'm unbeaten for quite a few games aswell, being 5-3-1 on D2, but my team is conceding some incredible goals. January window is coming, I've got nearly 4 million in the bank and I'm going to bring a good defender, hopefully.

Palmieri and Schmidt arent cutting it. Craddock came in from Wolves but he tires too fast.

 

[pes4lyfe]

Haha when has a Brasilian ever defended

Depends though - sometimes you can break the AI's back and a goal rout will happen. I was up 3 nil after 25 mins on superstar a couple of weeks ago. Couldn't believe it. Won 3-1 in the end. But I played the same team away and they won 3-0 haha

I find on all pes games if you score 3 goals go 3-0 up the CPU goes teribelespecially the Gks. I used to find in old pes anyway in master leagu if I could go 3-0 up the keeper would then start messing up easy shots and defense cave in. NOone else notice this. It was liek there morale went to 0 and they played even worse.

 

[pes4lyfe]

Yeah, I managed to beat a team 5-1 some games ago. I'm unbeaten for quite a few games aswell, being 5-3-1 on D2, but my team is conceding some incredible goals. January window is coming, I've got nearly 4 million in the bank and I'm going to bring a good defender, hopefully.

Palmieri and Schmidt arent cutting it. Craddock came in from Wolves but he tires too fast.

Unbeaten and playing a 5-3-1 eh. NOt bad...just think if you played a 5-3-2

lmao


crappy joke time

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Just throwing out there mate but if you're leading or level, do you try and close the game out tactically or do you just play out the same formation? Not saying it would help in all the cases you mentioned, but PES is a tactical game and generally small changes can make enough of a difference to help. If you want to hold on for 3 points, put 10 men behind the ball and keep clearing it or wasting time. Foul players wherever you can. These things are done in real life but we try to be pure on a video game and complain that they score. Well in real life if you back off a player or you don't change to a defensive setup, chances are the other team will keep pushing until they score.

I tended to alter the attacking mentality to about two bars, but didn't really tweak much else to be fair. I wanted some kind of counter attacking threat otherwise you invite more pressure on. I totally get what you say, and it does happen in real life for sure, but I can't force myself to play really defensive or time waste, I just don't enjoy it, but maybe this year it is a necessity if you've only got a narrow lead. But then what so you do if you're drawing and want to push for a win late on? That's yay playing into the CPU's hands.

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

I find on all pes games if you score 3 goals go 3-0 up the CPU goes teribelespecially the Gks. I used to find in old pes anyway in master leagu if I could go 3-0 up the keeper would then start messing up easy shots and defense cave in. NOone else notice this. It was liek there morale went to 0 and they played even worse.

Hell yeah, I've seen the CPU fall apart completely after going a few goals down, many times. Silly passing errors in defence, defensive mix-ups, the lot. I love it, and it's just like you say, it's like their morale drops like a stone. Class.

 

[pes4lyfe]

Hell yeah, I've seen the CPU fall apart completely after going a few goals up, many times. Silly passing errors in defence, defensive mix-ups, the lot. I love it, and it's just like you say, it's like their morale drops like a stone. Class.

Aye but that was back in pes1-5 etc...I havent played sicne then so dunno bout now.

 

[Pere Ubu]

CPU teams definitely crumble in certain circumstances.

I was playing offline last night, league mode, in the first knockout round of the Europa League. I'd beaten AZ Alkmaar 1-0 at our place, in the return leg they went one up after 11 minutes (cutback, surprise surprise). I knew that if I could get an away goal things would get tough for them, but they held out and in the end the game went to extra time.

Anyway, they scored in the first minute of extra time, then in the last minute of the first half they won a penalty - I saved it, but another cutback from the rebound put them 3-0 up on the night. Pretty grim situation for me.

But then something funny happened - I got a lucky deflected goal within seconds of the restart, and AZ's arse just fell out. They knew I only needed one more to win the tie, and their bottle well and truly went... they started misplacing passes, booting balls into touch under very little pressure, etc etc. Sure enough I scored again from a corner moments later to put us ahead on away goals, and they were a broken team. I ended up scoring another (3 goals in ten minutes) to put the tie to bed, and could probably have had yet another if I'd been on top form. Their resistance just totally collapsed.

Now this isn't necessarily all that realistic in the circumstances - even a very tired team would usually be able to hold on to a two-goal margin for fifteen minutes at home, without going to pieces like that. But the point is, you could see them crumbling. Once my first goal went in, you could see the doubt spreading through the whole team, clear as day. This is the flipside of scripting, I suppose: when it's done nicely, it adds something to the game. Didn't hurt that the momentum was in my favour, of course...

 

[leandropuc86]

Unbeaten and playing a 5-3-1 eh. NOt bad...just think if you played a 5-3-2

lmao


crappy joke time

5-3-1 stands for 5 wins, 3 draws and one loss. It's my team record, not formation lol.

I play 4-2-3-1, two DMC's, LMF, AMF, RMF and a ST.

 

[leandropuc86]

CPU teams definitely crumble in certain circumstances.

I was playing offline last night, league mode, in the first knockout round of the Europa League. I'd beaten AZ Alkmaar 1-0 at our place, in the return leg they went one up after 11 minutes (cutback, surprise surprise). I knew that if I could get an away goal things would get tough for them, but they held out and in the end the game went to extra time.

Anyway, they scored in the first minute of extra time, then in the last minute of the first half they won a penalty - I saved it, but another cutback from the rebound put them 3-0 up on the night. Pretty grim situation for me.

But then something funny happened - I got a lucky deflected goal within seconds of the restart, and AZ's arse just fell out. They knew I only needed one more to win the tie, and their bottle well and truly went... they started misplacing passes, booting balls into touch under very little pressure, etc etc. Sure enough I scored again from a corner moments later to put us ahead on away goals, and they were a broken team. I ended up scoring another (3 goals in ten minutes) to put the tie to bed, and could probably have had yet another if I'd been on top form. Their resistance just totally collapsed.

Now this isn't necessarily all that realistic in the circumstances - even a very tired team would usually be able to hold on to a two-goal margin for fifteen minutes at home, without going to pieces like that. But the point is, you could see them crumbling. Once my first goal went in, you could see the doubt spreading through the whole team, clear as day. This is the flipside of scripting, I suppose: when it's done nicely, it adds something to the game. Didn't hurt that the momentum was in my favour, of course...

Yeah, momentum is a big factor, but when it's not working in your favor it's terrifying.

 

[pes4lyfe]

5-3-1 stands for 5 wins, 3 draws and one loss. It's my team record, not formation lol.
.

i know thats why i said crappy joke time

 

[leandropuc86]

i know thats why i said crappy joke time

God i'm thick.