The "Not happy with PES 2012" thread

[GraGra]

It tells me they dont know how to shoot. And it is common, we are less than 3 weeks into the release of the new game. That video proves everything you arrogant little man, it proves you havent a clue about what your talking about. And for placement shots that are so hard and inconsistent, isnt it a huge coincidence it took me less than 10 minutes to provide many different examples, and all with different players and differing stances, postures, corners and angles ? Guess I just got lucky huh ?

FFS. Lets just get scientific about this:

2 people sit in front of game, 1 (playing) yells out where he is shooting and other 1 writes down if it did actually go in the desired direction. Perhaps the 1 writing it down can also look at the control stick/directional pad also...

If a single shot the recorder will have ample time to write down both the yelled (player playing) and visual (over the shoulder look at direction) result.

If it's crazy, quick reaction shots in sucession from a goalkeeper parry etc, then perhaps just the yelled (player playing) result.

Do it for say 10 games and chart the results...? If I wasn't in Australia Jimmy I'd sit beside ya and record it for ya... :-)

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

FFS. Lets just get scientific about this:

2 people sit in front of game, 1 (playing) yells out where he is shooting and other 1 writes down if it did actually go in the desired direction. Perhaps the 1 writing it down can also look at the control stick/directional pad also...

If a single shot the recorder will have ample time to write down both the yelled (player playing) and visual (over the shoulder look at direction) result.

If it's crazy, quick reaction shots in sucession from a goalkeeper parry etc, then perhaps just the yelled (player playing) result.

Do it for say 10 games and chart the results...? If I wasn't in Australia Jimmy I'd sit beside ya and record it for ya... :-)

The only difference from PES 2011, in my opinion, is that it's harder to find the corners with R2 when under pressure. And from a realism perspective, that's bang on the money. The rest of what I've already stated, is what it is. Or at least for me and the others that have replied and are not having any issues either. What on earth do I need someone sat next to me for FFS ?, this is just getting ridiculous now. I'm done with this debate.

 

[pj_puttz]

Jimmy is not a fan of intelligent debate, he prefers smileys and name calling. Just joshing ya Jamesy boy!

Anyway, your experiment idea is not bad mate but no one can look at a d-pad or a stick and tell for sure which way it is being pressed. The only person that knows for sure is the one pressing it and even then it's hard to be 100% sure ALL the time in the heat of a game.

I've put many a wayward shot down to bad position, poor player stats, being put under pressure or even thinking back and realising I probably didn't quite get the direction right but the fact remains that sometimes the conditions are perfect and my technique is sound yet my shot still goes in a different direction to the one I pressed. Not to mention the power bar issue where some shots fly off the boot and other shots with exactly the same amount of power trundle slowly towards the goal.

There is no definitive scientific way to prove or disprove this because of the human element. Some people lie to themselves about these things. For some reason they dont want to see the bug.......so they dont. They'd rather blame themselves than blame the game. I dont know why this happens but it does.

I've been on plenty of forums where people become totally enraged at other people pointing out flaws in this game and others. They're willing to blame anything except the game and some even deny the existence of flaws the actual game's creator has openly admitted to! What chance have you got against that level of delusion?

I remember one guy telling me that the AI ignoring stats and the existence of catch-up logic in a previous PES game was simply a representation of the "fight or flight" response human beings experience at times of great stress which can give people super human strength. Like someone lifting a car to save a trapped loved one. In a football game. I mean FFS!

The "it never happens to me" crowd are lucky people really. They can play a flawed product and convince themselves there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[jaboy]

The "it never happens to me" crowd are lucky people really. They can play a flawed product and convince themselves there is nothing wrong with it.

If you really think there is a problem with shooting then why don't you write to Konami outlining the problem BEFORE they release patch 1.02? Maybe they will address your concerns. Maybe they won't.

Plenty of flaws in this game, but shooting, while not perfect, is better than before. Assuming that you don't bin the game, I'm confident that if you keep playing you will have your Eureka moment.

 

[pj_puttz]

If you really think there is a problem with shooting then why don't you write to Konami outlining the problem BEFORE they release patch 1.02? Maybe they will address your concerns. Maybe they won't.

Plenty of flaws in this game, but shooting, while not perfect, is better than before. Assuming that you don't bin the game, I'm confident that if you keep playing you will have your Eureka moment.

I live in hope that Konami respond to our feed back one day but so far they haven't bothered and I dont expect a letter will change that. They seem more concerned with adding cameramen and refs and other such incidental shit.

Personally I preferred the shooting in the previous game as I thought it was more responsive and more accurate but each to their own mate.

I will never bin the game, I simply NEED a football game to play for the next 12 months and PES is that game despite it's flaws. I dont think I've ever been without a football game to play throughout my roughly 30 years of gaming and I'm not about to start now.

I dont think it's about having a "eureka moment" as you suggest because I know I have the shooting system sussed. I know the flaw is not something I'm doing wrong because I CAN score all kinds of goals pretty easily in this game.

It's just that sometimes the game does not do what you want it to do and it's not just the shooting which is affected by this either.

That to me is either a bug or something deliberate Konami have programmed in to make the game harder. Either way it's annoying.

I'll continue to play PES, I'll no doubt buy it every year from now until my dying day.......and therein lies the problem. Konami are sloppy because they GET AWAY WITH IT. Mugs like me who dont like FIFA can either buy PES with all it's flaws or go without a football game altogether.

As going without a football game is simply not an option for guys like me, PES is all I've got and so Seabass gets my 40 hard earned once a year no matter what he puts out on the shelves.

Is it any wonder I come here to vent?

 

[jaboy]

Konami are sloppy because they GET AWAY WITH IT. Mugs like me who dont like FIFA can either buy PES with all it's flaws or go without a football game altogether.

As going without a football game is simply not an option for guys like me, PES is all I've got and so Seabass gets my 40 hard earned once a year no matter what he puts out on the shelves.

I'm with you on that.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

What an odd debate, I'm f**king awful at this game and yet I've never had a complaint about shooting. I miss the target a lot of the time, but it still goes in the basic direction I tell it to.

 

[pj_puttz]

I'm with you on that.

He's got us by the danglies.......and he knows it.

Usually at this point, not long after release, I'm still beasting into PES every night but with 2012 that just isn't happening. The feeling of being slightly disconnected from the action is stronger than ever before in this version and that's why I'm not enjoying it as much I think.

I'll still play it obviously but now that I have Uncharted 3 and with MW3 and Skyrim coming out next week I can see PES slipping WAY down my list of priorities over the next few months.

That is unheard of for me.

 

[Dryzer]

I havent bought it this year and i'm very glad about that. First time in my lifetime.

It just cant cut it anymore.

 

[priskinsprick]

I havent touched PES2012 for over a week now, and I have no desire to go back.

For all the 'Seabass is taking the piss', 'they don't listen to feedback' comments I have to say that the demo(s) were superb for me.

That's what frustrates me, the game with the most believable ball and player physics, most freedom from scripting, most responsive controls, best refs, best teammate and computer AI and ultimately most playable PES was conjured up by Seabass and co for the demos.
Then, BECAUSE of feedback we've been left with a limp, compromised, sluggish, bugged and ultimately unenjoyable full game.

There's a saying I can't recall, something about a horse and a committee?

Anyway, Football Manager 2012 is superb, and I stil crack the demo on for a bit of Copa Libertadores!

Just so disappointed with the full product. All I want from the patch is the demo gameplay back, but it looks like the demo is going to be forgotten about as PES continues it's demise.

Shame, I'd say that demo 1 (for me) is the most playable football game ever...

 

[pj_puttz]

There's a saying I can't recall, something about a horse and a committee?

Seabass: Should we fix all the bugs in PES 2012?

Horse Committee: NEIGH!

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Well clearly in real life games, no one has ever hit a shot at the keeper in 1 v 1 situation have they? They would have been aiming for a corner, I'm sure of it.

 

[Flaw3d Genius]

If you really think there is a problem with shooting then why don't you write to Konami outlining the problem BEFORE they release patch 1.02?

I doubt the wee Japanese secretary sitting behind a desk at Konami will have much say about the shooting in Pes.

 

[Zakov]

No problems with shooting here either, but I really miss the R2 low shots from PES2010. Really felt like I was slotting the goal and finishing with style. KONAMI really needs to stop removing shooting animations from prior editions of PES.

The only problems I have is when playing the A.I the opponent striker will hound you endlessly no matter which player it is, even Emile Heskey.

I've already said it before, I really want a "tracking back" or "hardworking player" stat.
Not every striker is work horse like Tevez or Kuyt.

And I wish they would just remove the scissors kick altogether, because the A.I can't seem to volley properly.

 

[pes4lyfe]

I havent touched PES2012 for over a week now, and I have no desire to go back.

For all the 'Seabass is taking the piss', 'they don't listen to feedback' comments I have to say that the demo(s) were superb for me.

That's what frustrates me, the game with the most believable ball and player physics, most freedom from scripting, most responsive controls, best refs, best teammate and computer AI and ultimately most playable PES was conjured up by Seabass and co for the demos.
Then, BECAUSE of feedback we've been left with a limp, compromised, sluggish, bugged and ultimately unenjoyable full game.

There's a saying I can't recall, something about a horse and a committee?

Anyway, Football Manager 2012 is superb, and I stil crack the demo on for a bit of Copa Libertadores!

Just so disappointed with the full product. All I want from the patch is the demo gameplay back, but it looks like the demo is going to be forgotten about as PES continues it's demise.

Shame, I'd say that demo 1 (for me) is the most playable football game ever...

Who cares about footy manager. Its a great game but we still need a football game you actually play. So its either FIFA or PES or go back to 2004 and play some quality PES. thats the choice.

 

[leandropuc86]

Gosh, I just beat Paris St. Germain 7-0 on Professional. I'll finish this season and then I'm probably done with my current game, maybe time for Top Player again, who knows.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

No problems with shooting here either, but I really miss the R2 low shots from PES2010. Really felt like I was slotting the goal and finishing with style. KONAMI really needs to stop removing shooting animations from prior editions of PES.

The only problems I have is when playing the A.I the opponent striker will hound you endlessly no matter which player it is, even Emile Heskey.

I've already said it before, I really want a "tracking back" or "hardworking player" stat.
Not every striker is work horse like Tevez or Kuyt.

And I wish they would just remove the scissors kick altogether, because the A.I can't seem to volley properly.

I agree with removing the side on scissor kick from anywhere outside 10 yards.

The tracking back stat that you ask about is probably found within defensive awareness. If it's set to high then they probably track back a lot. I also heard there is a player card, which Rooney has, and relates to forwards who chase back a lot.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

...There isn't a replay option in training now so I'm going to set up a two-player game on Beginner and record some footage.

Jimmy - if you are in free training, hit the pause button and it brings up a menu. There's another menu option near the bottom (I think it's called Pause Menu) and that menu then has the replay option

 

[pes4lyfe]

No problems with shooting here either, but I really miss the R2 low shots from PES2010. Really felt like I was slotting the goal and finishing with style. KONAMI really needs to stop removing shooting animations from prior editions of PES.

The only problems I have is when playing the A.I the opponent striker will hound you endlessly no matter which player it is, even Emile Heskey.

I've already said it before, I really want a "tracking back" or "hardworking player" stat.
Not every striker is work horse like Tevez or Kuyt.

And I wish they would just remove the scissors kick altogether, because the A.I can't seem to volley properly.

yeh and ''poacher'' who does nothing but hang about the box.

I wodner if FIFA poacher stat does this or not?

 

[ofory]

The game may have it`s mistakes, bugs and A.I. problems..but when you play in B.A.L. and it`s december you can see the people working on the pitch with christmas hats...now that`s what I call attention to feedback...millions of people asking for Santa Claus hat.

 

[Zakov]

I agree with removing the side on scissor kick from anywhere outside 10 yards.

The tracking back stat that you ask about is probably found within defensive awareness. If it's set to high then they probably track back a lot. I also heard there is a player card, which Rooney has, and relates to forwards who chase back a lot.

I'm aware that might be the case. But at any rate, I'm seeing too many instances of the opposition striker hounding me non-stop even after playing keep-away or monkey in the middle with him. I don't mind players like Tevez or Kuyt or Bellamy doing this, but seeing the likes of Emile Heskey and Berbatov closing me down non-stop with tremendous speed and stamina really makes me want to pull my hair out.

There should a substantial effect on the CPU stamina, if the stamina system works that is.

 

[P34SEMM]

PES just isnt selling - Especially 2nd hand.
Im currently winning a copy on ebay for £9.99
If I win it im taking it down CEX and they will (stupidly) give me £28 for it.
Easy money.

 

[pj_puttz]

I'm aware that might be the case. But at any rate, I'm seeing too many instances of the opposition striker hounding me non-stop even after playing keep-away or monkey in the middle with him. I don't mind players like Tevez or Kuyt or Bellamy doing this, but seeing the likes of Emile Heskey and Berbatov closing me down non-stop with tremendous speed and stamina really makes me want to pull my hair out.

There should a substantial effect on the CPU stamina, if the stamina system works that is.

Agreed mate. The AI completely ignores the stats, especially stamina, and it has done in PES for as long as I can remember.

I think this is the only thing they can come up with that counteracts the speed and agression of a human player. That and not allowing you to select the player you want half of the time.

The fact is the AI cheats in PES, it always has and it probably always will. I complain about it but I can just about live with it to be honest because programming a game to beat a football fan at football, a sport the player has most likely watched and played for most of their life, is always going to be damn difficult.

It's the feeling of not being in full control I cant stand. The need to use super cancel just to get control of your player, the inconsistent shooting and passing, the dodgy power bar, the scripting and the "on rails" feel of the game at times makes me feel like I might as well put the controller down and just watch.

When I'm playing a football game I want to feel in control of the action, that's why I'm not that into football management sims.

There are too many occassions while playing PES 2012 where I feel pretty disconnected from the action and that's the reason I'm disappointed with it.

 

[adamjensen]

Agreed mate. The AI completely ignores the stats, especially stamina, and it has done in PES for as long as I can remember.

I think this is the only thing they can come up with that counteracts the speed and agression of a human player. That and not allowing you to select the player you want half of the time.

The fact is the AI cheats in PES, it always has and it probably always will. I complain about it but I can just about live with it to be honest because programming a game to beat a football fan at football, a sport the player has most likely watched and played for most of their life, is always going to be damn difficult.

It's the feeling of not being in full control I cant stand. The need to use super cancel just to get control of your player, the inconsistent shooting and passing, the dodgy power bar, the scripting and the "on rails" feel of the game at times makes me feel like I might as well put the controller down and just watch.

When I'm playing a football game I want to feel in control of the action, that's why I'm not that into football management sims.

There are too many occassions while playing PES 2012 where I feel pretty disconnected from the action and that's the reason I'm disappointed with it.

I definitely get that feeling, what I've realised is that PES is something like a hybrid between a football game and a management game, it's neither the full dynamic control of manual FIFA but neither it is the sit back and watch of FM, you are in control but only to a certain extent, if you can tolerate that and enjoy the game for what it is then it's still worth playing.

The big problem for me is that pre-patch is better than post-patch, but there are too many things that are missing pre-patch (like goalkeepers) which make it an impossible choice so I'm left in a situation where I can't settle on a single version of the game I enjoy most, which is so depressing considering the incredible promise shown by the two demo versions.

 

[Northzzz]

PES just isnt selling - Especially 2nd hand.
Im currently winning a copy on ebay for £9.99
If I win it im taking it down CEX and they will (stupidly) give me £28 for it.
Easy money.

Implying that CEX will give you cash for it and not give you trade-in value. That's generally how they make their money. They're very against buying things off of you unless it's a big thing (TV, decent phone etc) and they know that they can sell it for high $$$. If you do manage to get cash then well done but it's generally common knowledge that CEX aren't looking to buy things instead of giving you trade-in value.

 

[Jamezinho]

PES just isnt selling - Especially 2nd hand.
Im currently winning a copy on ebay for £9.99
If I win it im taking it down CEX and they will (stupidly) give me £28 for it.
Easy money.

Take it to GAME and get Battlefield 3 for £4.99 (or limited edition for £7.99), assuming they are still doing this promotion. That's why I did anyway.

I have no doubt that I will buy back PES2012 at some point but I'm waiting for a suitable price.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

Not sure you should bother mate, I kept hold of it for a while and it's been awful, especially in ML mode.

There are so many glitches and problems with the game I could write half a bloody novel on them. Seriously.

Unless there's something I'm missing that the in-game tutorials don't tell you, tackling is totally random. Either the player wins the ball, or you 'clip' the attacker and give away constant free kicks, or probably one in every two times the AI will glide past your challenge like you're not there. No idea how to consisently win the ball.

But worse than that, thanks to some spectacularly selective and terrible AI positioning of your defenders off screen, I conceded FOUR goals in one ML match, and similar goals in other matches, due to the game doing this;

YouTube - A

Note I was trying to cut out the cross, so I didn't get control of the defender marking the striker until the ball was in the air and the AI had already decided to make my player stop, move the other way for a second, and basically leave the striker in acres of space in which to score.

This happens CONSTANTLY. It's driving me nuts. The AI keeps making my defenders off the ball move away from the attacker they're marking until the critical moment before it hands control over to you. Bad AI? Cheating AI? Who knows.

The AI on top difficulty levels stat boosts to a ludicrous degree. Take Shimizu, he's a nippy 77 rated winger. Now I repeatedly passed the ball to him into space, in behind his marker, and their left back repeatedly ate up the ground on him then shoved him off the ball. Shimizu, who was sprinting after a loose ball would have a 10-15 yard head start on the AI left back and yet he'd still catch Shimizu up and get to the ball first. Afterwards I checked their stats and Shimizu had acceleration and sprint speed stats way in excess of the AI. So it's bullshit.

On top of that, ML has a ton of problems. You pick players week in week out, then rest them for one game because their stamina is low and they come knocking on your door unhappy with being 'constantly' left out of the team, asking why can't they ever get a game etc. Terrible.

Other times I was chasing loose balls with Schwarz and the game was on rails. It wouldn't, unless I used super cancel to break the 'lock' over his movement, allow him to get to a loose ball despite being closer than the defender. He'd run in an odd arc around the movement of the ball, not letting me just direct him to the ball, which conveniently gave the AI defender time to get to the ball first.

On other occasions, one notably, their keeper parried a shot, it fell straight to Ordaz. I pressed R2 to control the rebound, which he did, but then it 'locked' him into a sideways dribble animation I couldn't break out of. He ended up dribbling the ball sideways off for a goal kick with an empty net in front of him because his animation somehow broke all control of him. Really bizarre and awful at the same time.

ANOTHER occasion, the ref penalised Ettori for turning a defender and going through on goal. He turned, the defender clipped Ettori with his hand as he was running, somehow the play stops and a free kick against Ettori, and a clear goal chance goes due to awful hit detection and clipping issues.

Straight up the other end, the AI randomly gives itself a penalty. I'm jockeying a guy on the ball, why I don't know because generally it doesn't do anything, but then the AI makes a fellow defender slide in on him from the side. Penalty, and I lose the game. Depsite this, the replay actually shows that there was clear daylight between the tackle and the guy who was supposedly fouled, and who actually didn't stumble, fall, anything, because no-one ever touched him.

Such double standards from the AI, it's crazy. Just can't get into this at all, it feels scripted, on rails when you don't have the ball and mainly due to the scripting, the refs STILL haven't been fixed, keepers awful, AI catch up when you have the ball in acres of space and at full speed, animation 'locks' constantly and make my players do odd stuff, the list is endless.

Oooh, one final gem. The AI crosses the ball over, I have a man positioned perfectly to cut out the cross and head clear. So I charge up the button to clear the ball. The power bar fills underneath him, then seems to freeze, then as the ball reaches him, the power bar disappears and he actually DUCKS out of the way of the ball and allows it to go into the six yard box. Great.

Oh and ML. Why have they made stuff such as training worse? You could individually train players before, train them to have player cards over long periods etc, but nope, Konami decide to remove a good feature and put in this really inflexible, stupid training system in. They introduce player interaction, but whatever the players say doesn't even make sense half the time.

So rushed and buggy, it's a mess of a game.

 

[Suuuuupertalk]

LOL I just played another match, three minutes in a low cross comes in, their player is 5 yards in space, he taps it in for a goal. The replay shows that Ruskin was marking him, all the way until the moment the cross was played in, then the AI just made him stop and watch the guy run into the six yard box. It's a fucking joke.

After that, after just 8 minutes or so, I notice that when I have the ball about 45-50 yards from the AI's goal, they have TEN players, yes TEN all loaded in their penalty area. After 8 minutes. This has to be some kind of joke from the programmers.

Moments later, the AI does one of it's counter attacks, glides over three challenges in the middle, then hits a long range shot that barely dribbles along the ground, keeper could stop it with his foot. He collapses in a heap on the floor for no reason and the ball ran over the line, about a yard away from where the keeper needlessly fell to the ground, and went it. The ball travelled so slowly it didn't even reach the net. Pathetic.

 

[Deluxe]

Guys really, stop being so masochist with this game.

First the game is awful, the machine never do what do you want to do, and second, the game will never change, even with supposed gameplay patchs, and the november official konami patch will make it worse.

The best is to stop playing this crap. I say it because this"phenomenon" happen to me since 2008, installing and uninstalling the game like 10 times forcing and cheating myself that this is PES and i can`t reject it.
But patience has limit and then i return to PES 6. (thanks god that marvelous people still doing updates patches today) And this is because people are not happy with the new releases of PES. (5 years!)

Really stop cheating yourself, is bad for health.

 

[Jamezinho]

Thing is LT, I do miss my PES fix even if it is all too often fucking annoying and shit-itchingly frustrating. I don't think there is any question that when PES is at it's best Fifa can't hold a candle to it. There's no doubt I will pick it up again but I'm waiting for a price drop.

Sadly I think PES should be released as a budget title these days. A £25-£30 price tag is more suitable in my opinion. It doesn't hold up to the £40 AAA titles any more. It would actually benefit PES to do this as I think football fans would be more likely to give the game a look as well as Fifa (I don't think they can win fans from Fifa any more). There's no shame at all in releasing at a budget price as I remember 2K Sports doing the same with their NHL and NBA games a few years back.

Also, get the game released at least two weeks before Fifa, or even better, get it out for the first day of the new football season. They need to do something radical to increase their sales in future.