PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

charlievolano said:
Another issue i always have with pretty much every sport game is that u start with a crappy team and eventually you build up a team made of superheroes....that ruins the experience...i think they should fix that with realistic funds/transfer costs...so even if u are a wealthy team u just can't buy any player of your liking...(unless u start as real madrid....)

I would actually love to see something like a salary cup, it is fun to make key choices for ur team, not fun to buy anything u want.

anyway what's up with WENB?? I heard Adam just banned Suff for saying he is ""very happy but not "supermegavery happy" with the new pes...
Click to expand...


Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to buy them!!

Just don't do it:FISH:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

latest news

*PES2010 playable on Gamescom august 19th(press only)
so first gameplay vids expected on august 19th

*PES2010 for the Wii rlsing this year
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Junka said:
latest news

*PES2010 playable on Gamescom august 19th(press only)
so first gameplay vids expected on august 19th

*PES2010 for the Wii rlsing this year
Click to expand...

I beleive Gari has a press pass via WENB, so he is going armed with a hi-def camera.This is when the flood gates will open and we can all see what has REALLY changed
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Posted this on another thread in response to statements about "Engines" and pes 2010. NickCave told me it would fit better in this thread, so I post it here.

Quite a long post, I tried to reduce it. That's for all these people expecting pes 2010 to magically have incredible improvements.

Some people say PES 2010 will deliver, they say some major improvements are yet to be public. They put 200 people to work on it this year. They have failed and this time they know they must deliver, bla bla bla.

And sometimes people say "they don't need a new engine", oh yeah, the current engine is great because it's the evolution of pes5 (5 years ago) that was the best football game on the universe.

Games are not done like that. And next-gen games are very different to what you would develop for a ps2, to say something. Times have changed. A LOT.

Let's explain more carefully about the "egnine". At least, how I see it. There's a gameplay engine behind surface, and normally it's composed of different "engines": physics, ai, control interface, graphics, animation, logic and on-line communication.

Konami has an horrible physics engine, a horrible ai engine and a poor control interface, not to mention the animation engine (doing mocaps won't automatically resolve how animations are dealed in-game when things have to go procedural or inverted kinetics take place) or the on-line communications engine, which is one of the worst in the world.

So, to have a really great game, they should:

- Rewrite the physics engine (I haven't heard anything about that, they're only tweaking variables for the ball direction and speed as long as we know). So, collisions may be as poor as they have ben up to now.

- AI Engine: it takes a LOT of work. They say they have invested some time with tactics. Let's wait and see what they com up with, but experience (Teamvision anyone?) tell us they implementation is very shallow, after 9 years of pes they still have CBs that suddenly go away by no reason. Should we expect they do in 1 year the work EA did in the last 4 years?

- Control interface: That is a very delicate thing. EA has done a revolution with the control modes. PES needs some kind of SEMI if not MANUAL control setting that let us have more influence on how things develop on screen. For instance, 20% of passes in PES won't go where I was expecting, and sometimes they go to a totally different direction. That's because the interface between human interaction and game logic is too scripted and they rely too much on stats and automated behaviours. Changing this would be a good sign for the PES series in my opinion, but I doubt they do it. At least, there's no word about it. It's a joke that crossing the ball only asks for pressing a button, sometimes double pressing the button and the ball will automatically go to your striker's head. Or anywhere else by no reason. That's not a solid control interface in the current generation. EA may still have some major flaws with this, but it's at least 2 years ahead of Konami. Should we expect Konami delivering a major step up in this direction in just one year?

- Graphics: Here Konami seems to be doing major steps. Lightning seems very good and faces are great. My doubt is that all these things have almost no impact on wide cam. If I were konami I would have focused first on other things. But hey, it seems they're doing this right, so let's enjoy it for what it is!

- Animations: PES has a big problem with animations. Not only mocap sessions (EA again has 3 years of advantage and they are accumulating hundreds of animations from previous years) will save the day. They need to time these animations into the game, into the different variables and engines. For instance, you can have some great "fall to floor" animations, but in order to be credible, you need to know where the impact was registered in order to choose from the different animations which one will suit better. Or you need to have your animations integrated with some kind of procedural routines that let the legs stretch to the ball or move an arm towards the defender, or kick the ball with different variables. All these is a great work to implement. EA has a big experience with this, while Konami has done it for the first time. Should we expect they deliver in one year (and only 2 months to implement it and test it as it seems by the official mocap sessions and the builds distributed recently) what EA has been working on for 3 years?

- Logic: That's everything related to logic functions in the game, such as substitutions, application of rules, fatigue, stats... and cheats. In this department, I don't think either game has any advantage. They're pretty even. One game does some things better than the other and viceversa.

- On-line: Few words need to be put here. Konami has no credit. That doesn't mean they won't pull it out. Simply that the major failures in the last years are ridiculous. I don't know of any sports game with a worst online than pes. They need to work HARD on it. And again, will they be able to do it in just one year?

At the end, there's something appaling: Konami has been lazy and disoriented the last 3 or 4 years and now they're paying the price. It's possible to have faith in pes 2010? Of course. I have. But very very little. Because they need to "recover" 3 years of work, and these processes are very time-consuming and set on a trial-error base.

It doesn't matter if you put 200 or 400 people to work on it. In one year there's a limit on what you can develop properly. And Konami won't suddenly surprise everyone implementing everything wrote in this post. It's simply humanly not possible to do it in only one year.

Nobody believes they have been working on pes 2010 for some years. Nuts!

Would I like pes 2010 to be a good game? Of course!
Can it be a good game? We will see.
Can it be better than Fifa in all the things listed here? Nuts!
That means Fifa is the best game? Fifa has its major flaws, but it's a far more deep game right now. If they continue to develop at the rate they're doing, it will be difficult to be caught by PES in the near future. But that doesn't mean everybody will like Fifa more than PES. If you look for a quick action football game, maybe PEs is excellent for you. I have no problem with this. Everyone's entitled to his opinion.

But from an objective point of view, most of the things Fifa does good in order to achieve the sense of "simulation" cannot be matched by pes in one or two years.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Posted this on another thread in response to statements about "Engines" and pes 2010. NickCave told me it would fit better in this thread, so I post it here.

Quite a long post, I tried to reduce it. That's for all these people expecting pes 2010 to magically have incredible improvements.

Some people say PES 2010 will deliver, they say some major improvements are yet to be public. They put 200 people to work on it this year. They have failed and this time they know they must deliver, bla bla bla.

And sometimes people say "they don't need a new engine", oh yeah, the current engine is great because it's the evolution of pes5 (5 years ago) that was the best football game on the universe.

Games are not done like that. And next-gen games are very different to what you would develop for a ps2, to say something. Times have changed. A LOT.

Let's explain more carefully about the "egnine". At least, how I see it. There's a gameplay engine behind surface, and normally it's composed of different "engines": physics, ai, control interface, graphics, animation, logic and on-line communication.

Konami has an horrible physics engine, a horrible ai engine and a poor control interface, not to mention the animation engine (doing mocaps won't automatically resolve how animations are dealed in-game when things have to go procedural or inverted kinetics take place) or the on-line communications engine, which is one of the worst in the world.

So, to have a really great game, they should:

- Rewrite the physics engine (I haven't heard anything about that, they're only tweaking variables for the ball direction and speed as long as we know). So, collisions may be as poor as they have ben up to now.

- AI Engine: it takes a LOT of work. They say they have invested some time with tactics. Let's wait and see what they com up with, but experience (Teamvision anyone?) tell us they implementation is very shallow, after 9 years of pes they still have CBs that suddenly go away by no reason. Should we expect they do in 1 year the work EA did in the last 4 years?

- Control interface: That is a very delicate thing. EA has done a revolution with the control modes. PES needs some kind of SEMI if not MANUAL control setting that let us have more influence on how things develop on screen. For instance, 20% of passes in PES won't go where I was expecting, and sometimes they go to a totally different direction. That's because the interface between human interaction and game logic is too scripted and they rely too much on stats and automated behaviours. Changing this would be a good sign for the PES series in my opinion, but I doubt they do it. At least, there's no word about it. It's a joke that crossing the ball only asks for pressing a button, sometimes double pressing the button and the ball will automatically go to your striker's head. Or anywhere else by no reason. That's not a solid control interface in the current generation. EA may still have some major flaws with this, but it's at least 2 years ahead of Konami. Should we expect Konami delivering a major step up in this direction in just one year?

- Graphics: Here Konami seems to be doing major steps. Lightning seems very good and faces are great. My doubt is that all these things have almost no impact on wide cam. If I were konami I would have focused first on other things. But hey, it seems they're doing this right, so let's enjoy it for what it is!

- Animations: PES has a big problem with animations. Not only mocap sessions (EA again has 3 years of advantage and they are accumulating hundreds of animations from previous years) will save the day. They need to time these animations into the game, into the different variables and engines. For instance, you can have some great "fall to floor" animations, but in order to be credible, you need to know where the impact was registered in order to choose from the different animations which one will suit better. Or you need to have your animations integrated with some kind of procedural routines that let the legs stretch to the ball or move an arm towards the defender, or kick the ball with different variables. All these is a great work to implement. EA has a big experience with this, while Konami has done it for the first time. Should we expect they deliver in one year (and only 2 months to implement it and test it as it seems by the official mocap sessions and the builds distributed recently) what EA has been working on for 3 years?

- Logic: That's everything related to logic functions in the game, such as substitutions, application of rules, fatigue, stats... and cheats. In this department, I don't think either game has any advantage. They're pretty even. One game does some things better than the other and viceversa.

- On-line: Few words need to be put here. Konami has no credit. That doesn't mean they won't pull it out. Simply that the major failures in the last years are ridiculous. I don't know of any sports game with a worst online than pes. They need to work HARD on it. And again, will they be able to do it in just one year?

At the end, there's something appaling: Konami has been lazy and disoriented the last 3 or 4 years and now they're paying the price. It's possible to have faith in pes 2010? Of course. I have. But very very little. Because they need to "recover" 3 years of work, and these processes are very time-consuming and set on a trial-error base.

It doesn't matter if you put 200 or 400 people to work on it. In one year there's a limit on what you can develop properly. And Konami won't suddenly surprise everyone implementing everything wrote in this post. It's simply humanly not possible to do it in only one year.

Nobody believes they have been working on pes 2010 for some years. Nuts!

Would I like pes 2010 to be a good game? Of course!
Can it be a good game? We will see.
Can it be better than Fifa in all the things listed here? Nuts!
That means Fifa is the best game? Fifa has its major flaws, but it's a far more deep game right now. If they continue to develop at the rate they're doing, it will be difficult to be caught by PES in the near future. But that doesn't mean everybody will like Fifa more than PES. If you look for a quick action football game, maybe PEs is excellent for you. I have no problem with this. Everyone's entitled to his opinion.

But from an objective point of view, most of the things Fifa does good in order to achieve the sense of "simulation" cannot be matched by pes in one or two years.
Click to expand...

Good written and logically, but sometimes a man believes in miracles :P:SNACK:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Posted this on another thread in response to statements about "Engines" and pes 2010. NickCave told me it would fit better in this thread, so I post it here.

Quite a long post, I tried to reduce it. That's for all these people expecting pes 2010 to magically have incredible improvements.

Some people say PES 2010 will deliver, they say some major improvements are yet to be public. They put 200 people to work on it this year. They have failed and this time they know they must deliver, bla bla bla.

And sometimes people say "they don't need a new engine", oh yeah, the current engine is great because it's the evolution of pes5 (5 years ago) that was the best football game on the universe.

Games are not done like that. And next-gen games are very different to what you would develop for a ps2, to say something. Times have changed. A LOT.

Let's explain more carefully about the "egnine". At least, how I see it. There's a gameplay engine behind surface, and normally it's composed of different "engines": physics, ai, control interface, graphics, animation, logic and on-line communication.

Konami has an horrible physics engine, a horrible ai engine and a poor control interface, not to mention the animation engine (doing mocaps won't automatically resolve how animations are dealed in-game when things have to go procedural or inverted kinetics take place) or the on-line communications engine, which is one of the worst in the world.

So, to have a really great game, they should:

- Rewrite the physics engine (I haven't heard anything about that, they're only tweaking variables for the ball direction and speed as long as we know). So, collisions may be as poor as they have ben up to now.

- AI Engine: it takes a LOT of work. They say they have invested some time with tactics. Let's wait and see what they com up with, but experience (Teamvision anyone?) tell us they implementation is very shallow, after 9 years of pes they still have CBs that suddenly go away by no reason. Should we expect they do in 1 year the work EA did in the last 4 years?

- Control interface: That is a very delicate thing. EA has done a revolution with the control modes. PES needs some kind of SEMI if not MANUAL control setting that let us have more influence on how things develop on screen. For instance, 20% of passes in PES won't go where I was expecting, and sometimes they go to a totally different direction. That's because the interface between human interaction and game logic is too scripted and they rely too much on stats and automated behaviours. Changing this would be a good sign for the PES series in my opinion, but I doubt they do it. At least, there's no word about it. It's a joke that crossing the ball only asks for pressing a button, sometimes double pressing the button and the ball will automatically go to your striker's head. Or anywhere else by no reason. That's not a solid control interface in the current generation. EA may still have some major flaws with this, but it's at least 2 years ahead of Konami. Should we expect Konami delivering a major step up in this direction in just one year?

- Graphics: Here Konami seems to be doing major steps. Lightning seems very good and faces are great. My doubt is that all these things have almost no impact on wide cam. If I were konami I would have focused first on other things. But hey, it seems they're doing this right, so let's enjoy it for what it is!

- Animations: PES has a big problem with animations. Not only mocap sessions (EA again has 3 years of advantage and they are accumulating hundreds of animations from previous years) will save the day. They need to time these animations into the game, into the different variables and engines. For instance, you can have some great "fall to floor" animations, but in order to be credible, you need to know where the impact was registered in order to choose from the different animations which one will suit better. Or you need to have your animations integrated with some kind of procedural routines that let the legs stretch to the ball or move an arm towards the defender, or kick the ball with different variables. All these is a great work to implement. EA has a big experience with this, while Konami has done it for the first time. Should we expect they deliver in one year (and only 2 months to implement it and test it as it seems by the official mocap sessions and the builds distributed recently) what EA has been working on for 3 years?

- Logic: That's everything related to logic functions in the game, such as substitutions, application of rules, fatigue, stats... and cheats. In this department, I don't think either game has any advantage. They're pretty even. One game does some things better than the other and viceversa.

- On-line: Few words need to be put here. Konami has no credit. That doesn't mean they won't pull it out. Simply that the major failures in the last years are ridiculous. I don't know of any sports game with a worst online than pes. They need to work HARD on it. And again, will they be able to do it in just one year?
Click to expand...
If you leave out the final part ( like I did above ) you have a very good post and it would be very usefull to place it in the Konami-feedback zone on WENB.

http://kitanamedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=723

Konami should read your post...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

its awfully quiet, where is the bloody news??

If you give say 3 weeks to press the discs and to ship em out then I reckon there is about 9 weeks dev time left. There must be some proper footage by now.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

It would be nice if Konami released a few more screens otherwise it's going to seem like a long time until Gamescom.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
It would be nice if Konami released a few more screens otherwise it's going to seem like a long time until Gamescom.
Click to expand...

Exactly

Screens are a peice of piss, give say 20 decent screenies of in game, stadiums etc and you get a feel for progress, for now we have some shitty trailers and few close ups.

FIFA could also do with the same TBH.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Yeah I really want to see some new stadiums in this game. I know Anfield is confirmed but I will be over the moon if Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates are in there, albeit probably unlicensed.

PES2009's stadium count was only 19 which is really poor compared to the 40-50 in Fifa. I want to see the old classics return like the Westfalen, Berlin Olympiastadion, the Bombonera, Mestalla, Parc des Princes etc.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

reading drekkard's post, i must agree. i see the whole "looking forward to PES2010" thing much clearer now. it all makes sense. on the other hand, it felt sooo good to be blinded by the last weeks rumors. ;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
Yeah I really want to see some new stadiums in this game. I know Anfield is confirmed but I will be over the moon if Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates are in there, albeit probably unlicensed.

PES2009's stadium count was only 19 which is really poor compared to the 40-50 in Fifa. I want to see the old classics return like the Westfalen, Berlin Olympiastadion, the Bombonera, Mestalla, Parc des Princes etc.
Click to expand...

If the Bundesliga return is a reality, for sure some German stadiums will make their triumphant return to PES. I hope so...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dr Force said:
its awfully quiet, where is the bloody news??

If you give say 3 weeks to press the discs and to ship em out then I reckon there is about 9 weeks dev time left. There must be some proper footage by now.
Click to expand...

Apparently Konami have not been able to license penguins and dinosaurs but the deal with the PDA (penguin and dinosaurs association) is alomst done. So they won't release any screen before they sort that out officially.

And this will bring the excitiment to the next level...since "lag" and "cutback" are now a next gen exclusive on all platforms.

Ah i forgot to mention the new game mode..."Be a WENB"...you basically select a WENB blogger of your choice and follow him up in all his statements through the next season...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Drekkard: I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially this part about the passing system:

- Control interface: That is a very delicate thing. EA has done a revolution with the control modes. PES needs some kind of SEMI if not MANUAL control setting that let us have more influence on how things develop on screen. For instance, 20% of passes in PES won't go where I was expecting, and sometimes they go to a totally different direction. That's because the interface between human interaction and game logic is too scripted and they rely too much on stats and automated behaviours. Changing this would be a good sign for the PES series in my opinion, but I doubt they do it. At least, there's no word about it. It's a joke that crossing the ball only asks for pressing a button, sometimes double pressing the button and the ball will automatically go to your striker's head. Or anywhere else by no reason. That's not a solid control interface in the current generation. EA may still have some major flaws with this, but it's at least 2 years ahead of Konami. Should we expect Konami delivering a major step up in this direction in just one year?
Click to expand...

With 2010, we're seeing a change in tactical play, not a change in the game mechanics of PES itself, which includes the scripted passing play. At this point of the dev cycle, I feel PES has no hope of changing its passing system in favor of FIFA's, and instead PES is going to change player movement with regards to zoning, setting individual player tactics, and the supposedly better off the ball movement that we're promised every year. Basically, what I think is going to happen is that players will move around more effectively and make better runs to receive passes, but the passing logic is going to remain largely the same with the scriptedness and the player individuality to back it up. Since PES is basically playing 3 years of catch-up with FIFA, we'll see a much better game than PES 2008 obviously, but it's going to be this style of PES all the same.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Good points Drekkard. Problem is it's your opinion.
I think PES' ball physics pisses all over Fifas.

One man's fast, fluid football is another man's arcade fest.
There are people that enjoy PES for what it is (apparently 8 mil if the figures are to be believed)

It's ironic. I also remember when I played PES 1 and PES 2. I was disappointed at the lack of evolution then but just about everyone else was gobsmacked at this new'ish football game. But then there was PES 3 and that baby was magic.
So I am hopeful Konami can pull it off.
While I understand your hangups with Konami, be careful of being blinded by your pessimism and not wanting to see the improvements. I have played Fifa as well, though not as much and I for one do not believe it is the better game.
I will also be careful not to be blinded by my optimism. If I don't see the animations and mo cap I wont be giving Konami my money period.

Off topic: @charlievolano I can't believe the stuff you posting. It's a little childish. This thread has been going well please dont take it down the toilet with rubbish.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

pes2010gourcuffmessi.jpg

New PES screen :)

http://pes2008editing.blogspot.com/2009/07/pes-2010-image-leaked.html

EA reacts on PES 2010 Rumours about Bundesliga :(
"EA Sports still holds the exclusive rights of Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga for the FIFA games."

http://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cbs-News-statement-EA-PES-4516276.html
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I wish Konami would fuck off with the close-up screenshots and actually announce important things - why would we care what the game looks like from that position? Who is going to play the game or watch a replay from that sort of angle?
Almost every sports game on the market these days can look stunning in a close-up screenshot, yet only a few stand out as looking very realistic in motion from the view you play the game from.

The only PES09 screenshots i'd actually want to see are ones to show new content/licences, and I think the only one to do that was one of an empty Anfield if I remember correctly (and that's not "new" content, just "returning").
 
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