PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Cammey said:
I'm sick of all this "Early Build" bullshit they give us every year.

It will be the same as it is now but with more teams.
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Then don't buy the fucking thing!!

Save yourself some money and a heart attack.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

ozfootball said:
hi guys im new here, have been reading for a while and today decided to sign up, im a big pro evo fan from australia and really hope this years edition goes back to what made us all fall in love with the game in the first place

cheers
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Hi Oz and welcome to a great site, lots of mature debate here and everone is helpful.

I have a good feeling that Konami will produce what can be deemed as a next gen title this year. The graphics will certainly be in that bracket, we are all just hoping that they can sort out the animation to increase the smoothness of running and turning.

Personally i only hope they tweak the ball physics because they are currently better than FIFA's (IMO) I just cannot stand the almost childish look and presentation of the gameplay and front end screens.

Lets stay +ve and hope we have 2 excellent footy games for next season.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Nick Cave said:
Unless they pulled something I can't see why you were banned either, This made me laugh though I strangely got an image of Nero... :P

"And, sorry to burst your bubble, but people come here for our opinions on the game."


On Topic, thoughts on the card system guys, how do you see it working...
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Adam just got pissed off i think and shot from the hip straight between my eyes lol, but its all in the past and i am sure we will kiss and make up soon. I like WENB and the effort everyone puts in so I wouild like to contribute in the future.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Urban said:
Then don't buy the fucking thing!!

Save yourself some money and a heart attack.
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Don't mind Cammey. He's too busy waiting for a sequel to Realistic Shirt Untucking Simulator 2009 (working title Realistic Shirt Untucking Simulator 2010: Double Layered)


Honestly, these scans have shown us little. Putting a video game into words is hard enough when it's accompanied by a bunch of blurry images. For quite a while now, these mags will stick PES on the cover and will shift a few copies. It's probably not in their best interest to slate and ignore the game, similarly they cannot way lyrical year in, year out. I wait until I see the game in motion, that first gameplay vid is where I can tell if the game is a dud or not.

I've been pondering to myself on the following thought - That is, the football game market seems a bit like Michael Jackson's career. PES5 was essentially Thriller, no one's ever going to get near it. Since then we've had some scandals, dodgy products and some weird faces. Hopefully PES can actually pull off a comeback tour before it keels over from a coronary.

Also, fix the freekicks.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

We also have a new 3D crowd which if it's anything like the Baseball title will be great and dynamic lighting which should make the game more realistic and not so bright; It would be great if we had games starting in daylight and finishing under floods...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Badgerman said:
I've been pondering to myself on the following thought - That is, the football game market seems a bit like Michael Jackson's career. PES5 was essentially Thriller, no one's ever going to get near it. Since then we've had some scandals, dodgy products and some weird faces. Hopefully PES can actually pull off a comeback tour before it keels over from a coronary.
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Michael Jackson is getting shoehorned into all types of analogies.


Konami should stop listening to the fans of the series who know absolutely nothing about game design, and who think that as a result of watching and playing real football, they're an authority on making a good football computer game. The development team originally built a game on very solid game design principles (based a lot upon fighting games) which made for a terrific, deep and fun game. Most of the demands by reviewers and gamers in the last few years have forced the team to focus on trivialities which have hurt the game.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

NeoKubrick said:
Michael Jackson is getting shoehorned into all types of analogies.


Konami should stop listening to the fans of the series who know absolutely nothing about game design, and who think that as a result of watching and playing real football, they're an authority on making a good football computer game. The development team built a game on very solid game design principles (based a lot upon fighting games) which made for a terrific, deep and fun game. Most of the demands by reviewers and gamers in the last few years have forced the team to focus on trivialities which have hurt the game.
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Errr yeah, ignore those game testers - joe public, who put in millions of game hours playing the things...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

NeoKubrick said:
Konami should stop listening to the fans of the series who know absolutely nothing about game design, and who think that as a result of watching and playing real football, they're an authority on making a good football computer game. The development team originally built a game on very solid game design principles (based a lot upon fighting games) which made for a terrific, deep and fun game. Most of the demands by reviewers and gamers in the last few years have forced the team to focus on trivialities which have hurt the game.
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It's just the opposite: They never listened and as a result they came up with things we never asked for.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Nick Cave said:
Errr yeah, ignore those game testers - joe public, who put in millions of game hours playing the things...
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I don't care how many hours old Joe puts in. If his feedback/opinion/argument is ridiculously illogical and ignorant of game design issues, his X amount of hours won't turn his wrong train of thought around to suddenly start moving in the right direction.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not the programmers job to integrate feedback in a logical way into the game and taking these game design issues into account??
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

NeoKubrick said:
I don't care how many hours old Joe puts in. If his feedback/opinion/argument is ridiculously illogical and ignorant of game design issues, his X amount of hours won't turn his wrong train of thought around to suddenly start moving in the right direction.
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Surely that is Konami's fault for not listening properly, sure you can argue why put fantastic looking shoes in and sock tape when other areas are so bad they are crying out for attention.

I think you'll find Konami did a good job of striping perfectly good things from PES all on their own, things the fans have been pleading to have back, they have sat on their hands for so long.

How is wanting a better product illogical, I don't get that NeoKubrick.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

FreMM said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not the programmers job to integrate feedback in a logical way into the game and taking these game design issues into account??
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That would be the task of the game director, producer, and leads. Ultimately, they are servants to Konami, who as any good business, are servants to profit. If reviewers (who shape the opinions a lot of gamers eventually copy) say PES has to do idiotic this or idiotic that, Konami have to listen and they have to integrate that idiotic feedback.

You have a woman's hands, anyway. I'd wager those hands have never played PES for twenty hours straight all the while playing spoons.

Nick Cave said:
Surely that is Konami's fault for not listening properly, sure you can argue why put fantastic looking shoes in and sock tape when other areas are so bad they are crying out for attention.

I think you'll find Konami did a good job of striping perfectly good things from PES all on their own, things the fans have been pleading to have back, they have sat on their hands for so long.

How is wanting a better product illogical, I don't get that NeoKubrick.
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Wanting a better product isn't illogical. What is illogical is asking to change and suggesting changes for a product when you (general, not specifically you) have no knowledge of the underlying theory of how the product was/is made. I'm not referring to obvious changes that should be made to the game like 'no auto-tackles' etc, I'm referring to suggestions to change how the game fundamentally plays.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

NeoKubrick said:
That would be the task of the game director, producer, and leads. Ultimately, they are servants to Konami, who as any good business, are servants to profit. If reviewers (who shape the opinions a lot of gamers eventually copy) say PES has to do idiotic this or idiotic that, Konami have to listen and they have to integrate that idiotic feedback.

You have a woman's hands, anyway. I'd wager those hands have never played PES for twenty hours straight all the while playing spoons.


Wanting a better product isn't illogical. What is illogical is asking to change and suggesting changes for a product when you (general, not specifically you) have no knowledge of the underlying theory of how the product was/is made. I'm not referring to obvious changes that should be made to the game like 'no auto-tackles' etc, I'm referring to suggestions to change how the game fundamentally plays.
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Fair enough and as you got some BA for FreMM, I'll just say in my opinion Konami made their own bed...

But i'm hoping for a brighter 2010... ;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

NeoKubrick said:
That would be the task of the game director, producer, and leads. Ultimately, they are servants to Konami, who as any good business, are servants to profit. If reviewers (who shape the opinions a lot of gamers eventually copy) say PES has to do idiotic this or idiotic that, Konami have to listen and they have to integrate that idiotic feedback.


You have a woman's hands, anyway. I'd wager those hands have never played PES for twenty hours straight all the while playing spoons.


Wanting a better product isn't illogical. What is illogical is asking to change and suggesting changes for a product when you (general, not specifically you) have no knowledge of the underlying theory of how the product was/is made. I'm not referring to obvious changes that should be made to the game like 'no auto-tackles' etc, I'm referring to suggestions to change how the game fundamentally plays.
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Ah well, if nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

"God, PES is a featureless barren wasteland"

"That's FIFA you're looking at, sir"

"Oh right, thank you, Darling".
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

You wouldn't recognize an untucked shirt if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing 'Untucked shirts are here again!'" :LOL:

Sorry for the OT
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Untucked shirts must amount to a couple of millimetres of TV space at most. I guess a few millimetres means a lot to some guys round here.

Oh yes, I went there.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

pepper63 said:
And who said sarcasm does'nt work in forums?:THINK:
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I stand corrected.:LOL:

NeoKubrick said:
Wanting a better product isn't illogical. What is illogical is asking to change and suggesting changes for a product when you (general, not specifically you) have no knowledge of the underlying theory of how the product was/is made. I'm not referring to obvious changes that should be made to the game like 'no auto-tackles' etc, I'm referring to suggestions to change how the game fundamentally plays.
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Thing is 99.99% percent of the people that play PES have no knowledge of the processes and theories behind how the game is made, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to make suggestions. I have little knowledge of how my TV or phone is made but I consider it a basic right as a consumer to give feedback to the manufacturers if I so wish.

Of course, the only people who really know how PES is made are the designers and programmers. These people gave us a great game a few years ago but they are also the same people that have let PES slide for the last 3 years. I would rather that Konami are at least seen to be listening to the fans so that with any luck they can see where they have gone wrong.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

the pr from konami uk is on another site saying that everything will be sorted for the finished game

here is what he had to say

"For me, the PSM3 piece came across as balanced and realistic. They have felt let down by the last two iterations - as have many on here - so to me it came across as a wary, but optimistic article. I certainly do not regard it as a negative story.

The intro highlights how the new AI closes down attacks, howthe graphics are shown to be extensively reworked and not just limited to a handful of players. But any other enthusiasm has to be tempered by the earliness of the code. You can't expect a 50% complete game to have a lot in it. To add Master League means that other elements have to be present for it to work and to combine. Likewise, Legend needs other elements to work, which are not in the current build.

No, that code was to show that PES 2010 is a more realistic football game: to look at and to play. Stuff like animation does go in last, as it is decorative. Right now, the AI that makes all the players act uniquely is being worked on and implemented. This is then tied into the many secondary AI elements that also contribute to the unique way, say, Messi moves off the ball, or Gerrard holds up play.

Imagine the 50% build of PES 2010 as a foundation. From this solid base, we can then add new tiers and, of course, decorate them all to a high standard. We are much further along the development schedule than normally at this time, thanks to the reorganisation and expansion of the development team, and there is still much to cram in.

But know this: the team know they have to deliver, and are commited to doing so. So far, they wanted to show off the graphics, more realistic game pace, and a sliding bar tactic system that actually affects play. They have done all three. Now we move on to the next level..."

All the best,
SteveM
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I find it so weird, that even though this as close to official news as we can expect, we are essentially relying on what someone else thinks of a half finished game.

It's like a deaf man trying to explain colour to a blind man. There's subtleties that are just impossible to get across, not that it helps when you have NDA's and the like restricting the content to be as ambiguous as possible. The problem is that our tiny little section of the community simply wants to know if the bugs are fixed and that Konami are addressing the concerns of their fans, as opposed to implementing unnecessarily complicated tactical changes. I guess that is what WENB set out to be, but you just can't function like that and remain sustainable.

All we seem to care about is nets, shirts, sandbags and animations. You can't really fill a magazine up with that - Hence the never ending echo chamber that is the PES hype machine, driven solely off the dreams of pre pubescent males manifesting in angry teenagers and young adults demanding to play with their favourite footballers long into the night.

Rather.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

goalgerd said:
the pr from konami uk is on another site saying that everything will be sorted for the finished game

here is what he had to say

"For me, the PSM3 piece came across as balanced and realistic. They have felt let down by the last two iterations - as have many on here - so to me it came across as a wary, but optimistic article. I certainly do not regard it as a negative story.

The intro highlights how the new AI closes down attacks, howthe graphics are shown to be extensively reworked and not just limited to a handful of players. But any other enthusiasm has to be tempered by the earliness of the code. You can't expect a 50% complete game to have a lot in it. To add Master League means that other elements have to be present for it to work and to combine. Likewise, Legend needs other elements to work, which are not in the current build.

No, that code was to show that PES 2010 is a more realistic football game: to look at and to play. Stuff like animation does go in last, as it is decorative. Right now, the AI that makes all the players act uniquely is being worked on and implemented. This is then tied into the many secondary AI elements that also contribute to the unique way, say, Messi moves off the ball, or Gerrard holds up play.

Imagine the 50% build of PES 2010 as a foundation. From this solid base, we can then add new tiers and, of course, decorate them all to a high standard. We are much further along the development schedule than normally at this time, thanks to the reorganisation and expansion of the development team, and there is still much to cram in.

But know this: the team know they have to deliver, and are commited to doing so. So far, they wanted to show off the graphics, more realistic game pace, and a sliding bar tactic system that actually affects play. They have done all three. Now we move on to the next level..."

All the best,
SteveM
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Thats encouraging news and reflective of what we may actually get this year.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

goalgerd said:
here is what he had to say...

...No, that code was to show that PES 2010 is a more realistic football game: to look at and to play. Stuff like animation does go in last, as it is decorative.

...they wanted to show off the graphics, more realistic game pace, and a sliding bar tactic system that actually affects play....
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I think I actually preferred the blanket silence and sparce screenshots of years gone by... :BLINK:

At least then they only built hype, nowadays they cant win unless they can show a game that doesn't look like rock 'em sock 'em robots with great AI and shiny graphics from the off.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I'm so afraid of the "less time on the ball, less time to think". I'm thinking pacman already, with mad attackers chasing your defenders even more than now, if such thing is even possible. And GOD it ruins the game.
 
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