PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Bonyi, you never convince people by shouting at him :SHHH:

BTW does anyone know if 2 vs 2 online will also be ranked?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

bonyi said:
What the fuck!

On all the NEW GAMEPLAY VIDEOS GFX LOOKS LIKE PES 2009 from WIDE CAM.

I THINK IT'S TO DO WITH THE NIGHT GAMES LIGHTING! IT LOOKS IF THEY ARE ALWAYS PLAYING IN FOG, OR RAIN.. IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU TUNE DOWN CONTRAST ON MONITORS..
Click to expand...

I have to agree about the night lighting. PES2010 in daytime looks miles better than the shameful night lighting. They definitely need to take a course or something regarding realistic night lighting in games..
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
Ahem ......


If this is your only gripe Gomito, then look, I'll show you how its done.

It's called a manual pass. But lets make it a little more tricky. Lets not make there just one team mate to bypass, lets make it two. Just so they can be no comebacks about using the option to hold down the X button to miss out the nearest player. ;)


Are you ready, then we'll begin ........


(Hope you like the musical score bro. ;))


YouTube - Manual Pass


Here is another one, this one misses out 4 players, and its a diagonal manual pass. This was done literally 2 minutes after the last one. Hope this helps. Just learn the manual pass Gomito and your laughing. ;)



YouTube - Manual Pass 2


So now you can use the manual option if you wish, or use the players own unique ability, both options. Take your pick.
Click to expand...
its not a valid choice, the manual pass in PES is shit. It's not well implemented and too hard to pull off. It should be no different then normal passing buttons with a power bar and 360 directional passing


p.s.
aren't you contradicting yourself by using the manual pass? How can that be an option for a real footballer? So your basically telling me that manual is only good when the assisted passing cannot acomplish want you want... hmm sounds like your in a quandry here mate...
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

bonyi said:
What the fuck!

On all the NEW GAMEPLAY VIDEOS GFX LOOKS LIKE PES 2009 from WIDE CAM.

I THINK IT'S TO DO WITH THE NIGHT GAMES LIGHTING! IT LOOKS IF THEY ARE ALWAYS PLAYING IN FOG, OR RAIN.. IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU TUNE DOWN CONTRAST ON MONITORS..

WERY BAD..

THIS PES IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MORE DEFENSIVE MINDED PES 2008/2009 WITH A BIT NICER GRAPHICS..

WHERE IS COLLISION PHYSICS, ADVANTAGE RULE, MANUAL SHOOTING, 360 PASSING, REALISTICALLY SHAPED NETS, MORE LICENSES, ETC. ETC..

I HAVEN'T TRIED FIFA 10 yet BEING A PC GAMER, BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE THEIR OFFICIAL SITE, WHERE YOU CAN BASH THE GAME AND DEVELOPERS TO DEATH AND BRING ON ALL FAILURES, AND YOU WON'T BE MODERATED LIKE ON WENB..

SEEMS THAT NONE OF THE GAMES ARE REALLY WORTH PLAYING THIS YEAR..
Click to expand...

Whats that? Speak up.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

gomito#10 said:
aren't you contradicting yourself by using the manual pass? How can that be an option for a real footballer? So your basically telling me that manual is only good when the assisted passing cannot acomplish want you want... hmm sounds like your in a quandry here mate...
Click to expand...

Not really. I used manual pass to prove to you that the pass you claimed wasnt possible in fact is. Those two videos prove my point. Also in that scenario when Kaka made his run, I didnt feel I could rely on Lucio's passing ability to make that sort of through ball. So I took control myself, and took it out of his hands. It was a lovely pass though. I have decent vision, it's my first touch that is inconsistent in real life.

Thats the beauty of PES, I can use the players ability if I so choose, or, I can do it myself. Those videos were made to highlight what you claimed was inaccurate, thats all. Normally I would have fed the ball to a creative player and let his skills shine. Thats why you have a role in football called a 'Playmaker'. Admittedley I still need alot of work on the manual side of things. But I'll get there. ;)
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I've tried to use manual pass but I find it so hard and awkward. The ball never goes where I want it to go so I always end up getting frustrated. I would of thought they might of put some work into it this year but I can't really see a difference between this year and last
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Punzz said:
I've tried to use manual pass but I find it so hard and awkward. The ball never goes where I want it to go so I always end up getting frustrated. I would of thought they might of put some work into it this year but I can't really see a difference between this year and last
Click to expand...

Your right it is awkward, it takes alot of practice. And its alot easier on the PS3 pad than it is on the Xbox 360, no doubt about that. It is probably alot better implemented on Fifa, but I still had problems on that when I tried it out. I guess it's down to practice. Either way, I'll always favour the 'simulated' approach. For me personally, its the only way.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

bonyi said:
What the fuck!

On all the NEW GAMEPLAY VIDEOS GFX LOOKS LIKE PES 2009 from WIDE CAM.

I THINK IT'S TO DO WITH THE NIGHT GAMES LIGHTING! IT LOOKS IF THEY ARE ALWAYS PLAYING IN FOG, OR RAIN.. IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU TUNE DOWN CONTRAST ON MONITORS..

WERY BAD..

THIS PES IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MORE DEFENSIVE MINDED PES 2008/2009 WITH A BIT NICER GRAPHICS..

WHERE IS COLLISION PHYSICS, ADVANTAGE RULE, MANUAL SHOOTING, 360 PASSING, REALISTICALLY SHAPED NETS, MORE LICENSES, ETC. ETC..

I HAVEN'T TRIED FIFA 10 yet BEING A PC GAMER, BUT AT LEAST THEY HAVE THEIR OFFICIAL SITE, WHERE YOU CAN BASH THE GAME AND DEVELOPERS TO DEATH AND BRING ON ALL FAILURES, AND YOU WON'T BE MODERATED LIKE ON WENB..

SEEMS THAT NONE OF THE GAMES ARE REALLY WORTH PLAYING THIS YEAR..
Click to expand...

You basket case :? Every game out there looks worst at night, you ever played Far Cry 2? At night that game is far less impressive, and that's just one game, and your complaints... just... :RANT:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I am pretty curious about the reviews, demo wasn't impressive at all but the final code seems indeed a step in the right direction.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Played the WE demo earlier and it is a lot better than the PES demo, didn't notice any reaction issues for a start! :LOL:

My interest in PES has been revived now after playing that. The lack of 360 movement is horrible after getting used to FIFA but it still felt ... alright to play so I'm definately going to give the full game a shot.

Begs the question, why bother releasing the PES demo, which is just shit and nowhere near able to give an impression of the full game? WE's demo is just far more refined.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

PES 2010 October 19th in sale in Istanbul/Turkey

19 Ekim 2009 Pazartesi günü saat 20:00'de Portaxe Baltalimanı'nda düzenlenecek gecede PES 2010'un lansmanı gerçekleştirilecek.

From 20:00 special open evening for PES 2010.

I just called a mate who's working at Game Mania here in Eindhoven and he confirmed that PES 2010 is in sale on the 19th too... So 7 days left ;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The manual pass in PES has always had it's uses, such as the straight ball down the line or the quick ball along the ground cross-field, but the opportunity to use it presents itself very seldomly because the manual pass is only 8-directional... If just this one feature was made 360 degrees and added onto the usual pass button + left stick (like FIFA) PES would be a much better game to me...

P.S. - The manual pass in PES can be done in the air too, hold L1 while doing it :TU:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

If I were to change the passing system in PES at all I'd have it replicate the semi-passing in FIFA; in terms of an accurate portrayal of the direction in which you are aiming and the general success rate of passes going to the man you aimed at or astray on quick passes etc. This would be a simulation of how passing feels in real life, after all it's only the odd pass that does go astray at the higher levels. Then, I would have 360 manual passing on the stick to complement this system, so for that final ball the direction of the pass will be truly manual and exactly where you meant to place it if you choose to use it.

If PES had a fully manual system it would hamper the way the game is meant to be played IMO. If you are concentrating too much on general passing it distracts your attention away from the field somewhat and doesn't allow you to work your carefully crafted tactics and formations on the field. PES has always been about that 'team' element for me, working formations and finding gaps with clever build-up play, that was why I sometimes got a little bored of fully manual on FIFA as I was all the time concentrating on getting each and every pass perfect rather than enjoying breaking down the other team.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Rob92 said:
The manual pass in PES has always had it's uses, such as the straight ball down the line or the quick ball along the ground cross-field, but the opportunity to use it presents itself very seldomly because the manual pass is only 8-directional... If just this one feature was made 360 degrees and added onto the usual pass button + left stick (like FIFA) PES would be a much better game to me...

P.S. - The manual pass in PES can be done in the air too, hold L1 while doing it :TU:
Click to expand...

Excellent post :TU:.

I keep thinking about this X button pass power bar, but I'm in two minds Rob to be honest. :CONF:

mjsmith2k said:
If I were to change the passing system in PES at all I'd have it replicate the semi-passing in FIFA; in terms of an accurate portrayal of the direction in which you are aiming and the general success rate of passes going to the man you aimed at or astray on quick passes etc. This would be a simulation of how passing feels in real life, after all it's only the odd pass that does go astray at the higher levels. Then, I would have 360 manual passing on the stick to complement this system, so for that final ball the direction of the pass will be truly manual and exactly where you meant to place it if you choose to use it.

If PES had a fully manual system it would hamper the way the game is meant to be played IMO. If you are concentrating too much on general passing it distracts your attention away from the field somewhat and doesn't allow you to work your carefully crafted tactics and formations on the field. PES has always been about that 'team' element for me, working formations and finding gaps with clever build-up play, that was why I sometimes got a little bored of fully manual on FIFA as I was all the time concentrating on getting each and every pass perfect rather than enjoying breaking down the other team.
Click to expand...


And the reason I'm in two minds is exactly what you have written there MJ.

Brilliant post :APPLAUD:

I think the bottom line is manual is possible in PES, I have done a many times, just not with the sort of consistency I'd like. But then again, overall, in a match, I only use the manual pass on a occasions anyway. But I definately think it needs tweaking still, or I need to get better at it.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I never really understood why everyone loves manual pass...

First of all if it is truly manual, might as well get rid of stats for passing, as your fully in control, in that sense every player on the game will be some crapper who can't make one pass, or some sort of play making genius, goal keepers included, you wouldn't be able to differentiate between the good passers in real football and the not so good ones!

Then there's the complaint that manual takes into account of the players stats... well then if thats the case its not even manual is it, as your restricted, like you got a crap passer, you aim perfectly and power it perfectly, but cause his stats are lower theres a margain of error in the code to make the ball go not as far and not in the correct direction, how bad depending on stat... which then makes you think you did it wrong anyway, not the players stats are crap.

I just think it's overhyped for a game, stats there for a reason, to recreate that said players ability... you expect to see results that you would expect to see that player in real life.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

gragra said:
Driving games and vehicle based simulations: 2 Cars Collide - say each has 8 collision zones (i.e. bumper, door etc) that trigger sub-objects to rotate and move independently (so a high resolution bumper can fall off etc). The sub-objects just shoot off in a direction - usually opposite - pretty simple solution. If it collides with something else it bounces away again. It's not animated by an underlying bone structure, so the object moves off via physics on it's own merry way, using gravity and friction to get it to stop "softly". 8 x 8 variations = 64 possible collisions, with a fairly simple solution.

Football games: 2 Players Collide - say each has 24 collision zones (alot of bones on the body, so 24 is a simple example...). Those collision zones are moving in a pre-determined animation (i.e. running). When it collides that animation must be stopped and a solution must be performed. Does it move the arm back a bit? What about the Foot? Hang on - it's still attached to a skeleton - so it can't just be flung back anywhere, plus an arm can only rotate so far before it would look like it would be broken (so there are "hard" limits set to stop it moving, once that limit is reached the bone can no longer move, so the object it is colliding with could pass through). 24 x 24 variations = 576 collisions - that's the two players, lets include the ball now - (24 x 24) + 24 + 24 (the ball hitting each player's zones). 624 possible collisions, with a complex solution.

When you think about it, a ball in close proximity actually makes it harder - you would have 2 players colliding, and then a ball bouncing around with them as well.

A bullet or missile in an combat game for example would leave one object, no longer interacting with it, travel to another, and then absorb into that other object. Once the transaction has taken place it's kinda over. The bullet / missile is essentially "dead" and another fresh bullet / missile is calculated.

In a Football Game the ball is always "alive" (with the exception of free kicks) so in close areas with two players and it's bouncing around off them, things are bound to stuff up...
Click to expand...

:FAIL:

AMUSING....obviously you don't know what simulations are...

cars don't have only 8 collision zones, racing sim still take into account MUCH MUCH MORE than just visual damages

if say, an F1 car collided with another car and then it destroyed or damaged the front bumper, then the simulation will take into account everything that may affects car performance; in this case the loss (or the damage) of front bumper will affect things like :

- downforce
- drag ratio
- suspension
- tires
etc

the simulation will calculate all of them involving the 2 cars which collided, that's outside all other calculations on remaining cars which racing. We're talking about what, 20 cars here racing on a track not on railways or such; each cars movements (handling, aerodynamics, race lines, etc)should be calculated.

same with jet simulation, say if a missile exploded near a jet (near miss), it can cause some damaged on the jet's avionics, it's a complex calculation....that's still only on 1 jet, we still don't take into account about all other planes, their avionics, their electronic equipments, weapons effects, weapons systems and guidances, etc and all physics calculation involving them (like flight path, flight envelope, weapon ballistics, etc).

in both simulation we still haven't considering environment effects like weathers, track surfaces etc.

compare to them, simulating 22 men on a football match is easier, even if we have complex skeleton physics systems and animations implemented.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

napo_rz said:
:FAIL:

AMUSING....obviously you don't know what simulations are...

cars don't have only 8 collision zones, racing sim still take into account MUCH MUCH MORE than just visual damages

if say, an F1 car collided with another car and then it destroyed or damaged the front bumper, then the simulation will take into account everything that may affects car performance; in this case the loss (or the damage) of front bumper will affect things like :

- downforce
- drag ratio
- suspension
- tires
etc

the simulation will calculate all of them involving the 2 cars which collided, that's outside all other calculations on remaining cars which racing. We're talking about what, 20 cars here racing on a track not on railways or such; each cars movements (handling, aerodynamics, race lines, etc)should be calculated.

same with jet simulation, say if a missile exploded near a jet (near miss), it can cause some damaged on the jet's avionics, it's a complex calculation....that's still only on 1 jet, we still don't take into account about all other planes, their avionics, their electronic equipments, weapons effects, weapons systems and guidances, etc and all physics calculation involving them (like flight path, flight envelope, weapon ballistics, etc).

in both simulation we still haven't considering environment effects like weathers, track surfaces etc.

compare to them, simulating 22 men on a football match is easier, even if we have complex skeleton physics systems and animations implemented.
Click to expand...

What I meant about how to solve the object(s) placement after a collision:

A Simulation uses physics parameters (i.e. force, speed etc) to influence the movement an object that can otherwise essentially move freely through XYZ space, with various other parameters to stop it (i.e. drag, gravity etc).

The Heirachy for a Car could be:

Car (Global XYZ space)
- Door (INITIALLY controlled by Car's local XYZ space, but can detach to Global XYZ space)
- Bumper (same as above)
- Headlight (same as above)
etc.

Those objects under Car's heirachy can fall/fly off and leave the master controller (Car) - to be on their own in global XYZ space, controlled by physics... often a one time transaction/movement and they are gone (left back on the track for example)

The Football game has a PRE-DETERMINED Animation Cycle that needs to be interrupted and solved. As the underlying bones have limits, they cannot move freely out of the way in every case. Thus more prone to error, and they may have to solve it from the end node back to the Master, producing compound transactions/movements.

Lets say a hand is near another player

------ Hand (ALWAYS controlled by bone below's local XYZ space)
----- Forearm (same again)
---- Upper Arm (same again)
--- Shoulder (same again)
-- Spine (same again)
- Pelvis (same again)
Player (Global XYZ space)

There is a flow on effect the hand has as it moves away from the other player.

Lets say a foot needs to be moved from a Tackle (XYZ space as above)

----- Toe
---- Foot
--- Calf
-- Quad
- Pelvis
Player

Same again - other parts of the leg may have to move back.

So the complexity is in how accurately they can solve it in multiple hierarchies, remembering that each bone has to go back to another position after the event, ready to go again for the next Animation Cycle. Rinse and Repeat, Rinse and Repeat.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The more video's I see the more I can tell that PES has definately returned to it's roots and subsequent form. I have been playing alot of FIFA and i think it is a good game but the problem is space in FIFA which makes it a repetitive experience in comparison to PES.

PES allows you to hold and think, pass and move and not have to consistantly go down the wings. It's so difficult to get a shot off from 25/30 yards in FIFA so you are always forced wide where headers are often a very limp affair.

It's the great 1-2's in midfield that seperate these two games at the sacrafice of some animation/collision and PES is far superior in this respect.I also feel i can beat a man in PES with speed of thought whereas I just cannot find the time or space in FIFA despite it's 360 dribbling.

PES's heading and ball physics are also superb with more variables to deflections, crossing and general passing which adds more freedom to the general play IMO and results in those panic stricken scrambles for a sustained period of pressure.

FIFA is a great attempt but it's still not a patch on PES5 and with 2010 looking more and more like a highly polished 5 then I think this may well score higher than FIFA again.
 
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