PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dryzer said:
I nearly crapped myself watching this..i had my volume whacked right up and when the pen hits the post i nearly had a heart attack, sounds like someone whacking a metal fence with a crowbar.

Players look like they have been products of Dr Frankenstein.
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i hoped they would go for the iss method. wii was simular right? btw: ronaldos shot speed seems to high, imo.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I've got some news.

These forums are really going down hill. If i'm not reading about how the demo plays like fish, or how fifa is so much better then i'm reading Jimmy G's snappy, egotistical shit.

Opinions differ, grow up and accept it. :p

Oh well, rant over. The newer videos look great, it'll be nice to finally sit down and play it.

Hmm I feel better, but not best.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

elnino9torres said:
am suprised rockstar aint made a 18 rated football game lol can you imagine it.....
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I imagine it would be like Red Card Soccer:

image4625.jpg
image4627.jpg
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

pes2011 definitely needs to work more with the animation side of the game, players have robotic movement and could easily be improved by konami

anyways this is my last post in this thread, going over old ground
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
I imagine it would be like Red Card Soccer:

image4625.jpg
image4627.jpg
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:LOL: What the fuck was that game all about by the way ? Must have been the official game of the national Uruguayan. team. :LMAO:

As bad as Adidas Power Soccer's super charged shot that knocked the keeper backwards and nearly through the fucking net. Our net-fetish lads on here would have a heart attack, bless 'em. :LOL:
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jimmy G-Force said:
:LOL: What the fuck was that game all about by the way ? Must have been the official game of the national Uruguayan. team. :LMAO:

As bad as Adidas Power Soccer's super charged shot that knocked the keeper backwards and nearly through the fucking net. Our net-fetish lads on here would have a heart attack, bless 'em. :LOL:
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The answer is in the title of the game, Jimmy.;)

It was an over the top football game where hatchetry against the opposing team was actively encouraged.

YouTube - PS2 Red Card Soccer

It wasn't as bad as Adidas Power Soccer - that's in a league of it's own - but it joins the pantheon of shit football games from back in the day. But, hey, at least we had more than two footie games to choose from.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

shieldslfc said:
Can you imagine if another footy game came along and was better than PES and Fifa. Surely someone out there can see a huge opportunity to become very very rich by making such a game.

And I am sure some big company would happily throw huge amounts of cash at it to develop it, because it would be a guaranteed success.

I mean the blueprint is simply, take the best bits of fifa, the best bits of PES, have Football Kingdom nets and wait for the millions to flow in.

The potential is off the chart, imagine stealing PES and Fifa fans, thats a big number, and it could so easily be done.

There's got to be a Brit company out there that could pull this off.

And imagine if there was only really one footy game to buy each year, it would be a lot friendlier round here.
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I would love to see 2K sports make a football game, I think they would do a fine job.

As for that PK vid, that was terrible. I don't think I have ever played a football game that has had PK's that I like, they all look and feel wrong
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Palermo Superbo :D
YES ! :D

Why Sneijder is still @ Real in the Inter - Real Vid ?
Its review code i mean wtf ?!
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Keenan said:
Alot of people did (I had my own problems with him I'm not willing to discuss), but he isn't a bad person. I know him away from the scene, he's thankfully put that behind him now and we're good mates.

I was involved from the very start when that started coming out, and I'm still not aware of the 100% truth so don't believe everything you hear.

Sidenote: Really all I want to say on that, it was a long time ago now.
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I did not say he was a bad person at all. What he did was stupid. Even his rival accepted it that he would beat him easily, however he took the easy way. It was a childish decision. But things like that makes you wonder which kind of things he can make when he cheats in a 50K prize tournament...

Keenan said:
TBH Rob can pull off moves with teams like Rangers that others can only dream of.

Most people think players like Rob etc are crap when they have to play with crap/smallish teams. It's the exact opposite and I'm talking from both online and offline experience against the best Scotland has to offer.

The easiest example of this is Rob's consistent performances in PESFan's ESL, and 1 of of Scotland's top 4 winning every small team event this season.
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For sure he can do well with smaller teams, fact is I have never seen him playing with another team in PES5 (I did not play again online from those times) bsides Brazil. IMHO, playing with Brazil is for kids who are noobs. You get an extra with that team which I consider pretty unfair, even if you can also play with Brazil, but that does not go with my idea of fun, and that is what I want to get in a game: FUN.

I have never said he was not good, simply I have the opinion that playing with Brazil is for kids. Kinda of some lack of self confidence in your skills (you need to take the best team, with some of the fastest players in the game). But as I say, this is only my opinion.

Keenan said:
TBF it depends on how you define 'great'. If you check PESRankings and follow it you see the trends of people who are consistently near the top. Oz idris (being 1 example) had barely played PES for the past 2/3 years due to work commitments, came in this season and reached the final of the Main Event.

Class is permanent when it comes to PES. You don't just lose it :)
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You are completely right, same applies here I guess. But when the level of the players is not growing, the same people, even if not playing a lot or very often (like me), still win the tournaments.

Sorry for the OT again, my last message about this. Peace dude, I respect your opinions and of course I realise Rob is one of the best players around the world, just I feel he would be even great if he takes other teams.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Jamezinho said:
They sure would, but I don't think they would be interested in releasing a product that isn't fully licenced, which is what they would have to do.
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You may be correct, but Top Spin 3 was made by 2K Sports and that didn't have the Wimbledon license as well as many other competition/venue licenses, it also has a severe lack of real players...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Tbh I'm not even sure 2K even have plans of venturing into the footy game industry. Their franchise is more focused on sports that are famous in the U.S.(Not that I'm implying Americans don't like soccer, I know lot of them do actually).

But I don't think its even on their agenda, just have a look at the list of the games they developed. There aren't any other European-based type sports games in there, not to mention football(soccer).

Sadly we're stuck with only EA and KONAMI unless 2K decide to break their trend.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

zeemeister said:
Thanks Gragra and Drekkard.

But I don't get it. Why do the limbs/ball pass through the body?

I mean if they use the mesh as Gragra mentioned they should not have the bodies passing through each other. Or is this as a result of the animation that is happening that Drekkard mentioned. I saw a video of PES 2010 where the ball passed through a players chest and went to the player behind him. Does that mean that the CPU predetermined that the pass is going to the area behind the player as opposed to the players chest and bounce back onto the pitch?
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As I mentioned method a) would measure every vertex on the player's mesh and would simply take too long to compute. So onto Method c)...

Method c)'s low resolution meshes are 6 sided objects each (i.e. cubes and rectangles) linked to bones. Now, they could have all those (albeit invisible) "collision detection cubes" in the game-scene on at render time but that could take away from the overall polygon count. After all at say 6 polygons per collision detection box that could add anywhere up to 200 polys per character if they were being fussy. All the characters would amount to 4600 poly's robbed (22 players plus ref). Tracking 4600 polygons colliding could cripple FPS (Frames Per Second).

So they could do the following:

- have all collision boxes turned off until the ball comes close (say 10 game metres), then turn on the relevant player's collision boxes, do the calculation, let the ball do it's thing, and then once out of that 10 game meteres area turn if off again

- not have the collision boxes in the game (thus freeing up the poly count) but instead use the XYX data (i.e. maths to construct the six sided box) via code and use maths to calculate the "area" of the collision. They would do that by getting the artists to size up an invisible box in a 3D program, and then they would note the XYZ values of the 8 corners of that box and "reconstruct" that area in code when the game runs.

either of these two ways, like Drekkard said, it's CPU intensive and prone to error. If it misses too much calculation (i.e. is not finished by the time it should be) the ball (or other player's collision box) is to have likely already passed through the area it is supposed to be calculating by the CPU to keep the game going (God I hope that made sense).

So I am guessing Drekkard is saying something like:

eg. Game runs at 30fps and collisions are calculated EVERY FRAME so it is checking for collisions 30 times a second.

Frame 21: the ball (in XYZ space) is before a player's chest collision box (so therefore not actually intersecting) it does not know it has hit it.

Frame 22: the ball has intersected, so the CPU is now calculating what to do.

Frame 23: the outcome is calculated and the ball is thrown off in a certain direction.

So why does it fail and a ball goes straight through? The ball was too fast... for the collision detection.

"But the ball wasn't travelling that damn fast!" I hear you say.

IF it's checking EVERY FRAME, surely you would expect 100% accuracy - BUT it would likely cripple FPS/Performance of the game. They may opt to check every 2nd, 3rd or even 4th frame... So then it's checking frame 20, then Frame 24 in a worst case scenario.

The Ball's already come and gone in that case... and at a 25% accuracy! (1/4 frames checked). Like Dekkard said, they may use the CPU to roughly try to interpolate ("fill in the blanks") and that would no doubt result in some particularities/bugs/weirdness.

So you can see they have to balance resources of the CPU... pumping up every accuracy setting etc would be great but I doubt the game would run well. They have to compromise somewhere.

Next time you see someone make a comment like "Frame-rate chugging? Must be the graphics" then you can say: "Well - actually the CPU is kinda busy with code too". Although the code maybe written litely (so not take up to much kb/Mb in RAM), the calculations produced by the CPU can be stratospheric.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

gragra said:
As I mentioned method a) would measure every vertex on the player's mesh and would simply take too long to compute. So onto Method c)...

Method c)'s low resolution meshes are 6 sided objects each (i.e. cubes and rectangles) linked to bones. Now, they could have all those (albeit invisible) "collision detection cubes" in the game-scene on at render time but that could take away from the overall polygon count. After all at say 6 polygons per collision detection box that could add anywhere up to 200 polys per character if they were being fussy. All the characters would amount to 4600 poly's robbed (22 players plus ref). Tracking 4600 polygons colliding could cripple FPS (Frames Per Second).

So they could do the following:

- have all collision boxes turned off until the ball comes close (say 10 game metres), then turn on the relevant player's collision boxes, do the calculation, let the ball do it's thing, and then once out of that 10 game meteres area turn if off again

- not have the collision boxes in the game (thus freeing up the poly count) but instead use the XYX data (i.e. maths to construct the six sided box) via code and use maths to calculate the "area" of the collision. They would do that by getting the artists to size up an invisible box in a 3D program, and then they would note the XYZ values of the 8 corners of that box and "reconstruct" that area in code when the game runs.

either of these two ways, like Drekkard said, it's CPU intensive and prone to error. If it misses too much calculation (i.e. is not finished by the time it should be) the ball (or other player's collision box) is to have likely already passed through the area it is supposed to be calculating by the CPU to keep the game going (God I hope that made sense).

So I am guessing Drekkard is saying something like:

eg. Game runs at 30fps and collisions are calculated EVERY FRAME so it is checking for collisions 30 times a second.

Frame 21: the ball (in XYZ space) is before a player's chest collision box (so therefore not actually intersecting) it does not know it has hit it.

Frame 22: the ball has intersected, so the CPU is now calculating what to do.

Frame 23: the outcome is calculated and the ball is thrown off in a certain direction.

So why does it fail and a ball goes straight through? The ball was too fast... for the collision detection.

"But the ball wasn't travelling that damn fast!" I hear you say.

IF it's checking EVERY FRAME, surely you would expect 100% accuracy - BUT it would likely cripple FPS/Performance of the game. They may opt to check every 2nd, 3rd or even 4th frame... So then it's checking frame 20, then Frame 24 in a worst case scenario.

The Ball's already come and gone in that case... and at a 25% accuracy! (1/4 frames checked). Like Dekkard said, they may use the CPU to roughly try to interpolate ("fill in the blanks") and that would no doubt result in some particularities/bugs/weirdness.

So you can see they have to balance resources of the CPU... pumping up every accuracy setting etc would be great but I doubt the game would run well. They have to compromise somewhere.

Next time you see someone make a comment like "Frame-rate chugging? Must be the graphics" then you can say: "Well - actually the CPU is kinda busy with code too". Although the code maybe written litely (so not take up to much kb/Mb in RAM), the calculations produced by the CPU can be stratospheric.
Click to expand...

Could you translate all this English please?
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

CHUCKY666_UK said:
Could you translate all this English please?
Click to expand...

Basically, in Lamens terms, Konami's flux-capacitator has multi-formatical, technically derived shorting of is primary circuit based optimum, periphiral micro anvika.

The good news is that it should be rectified by PES 2018. Thankfully.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

gragra said:
As I mentioned method a) would measure every vertex on the player's mesh and would simply take too long to compute. So onto Method c)...

Method c)'s low resolution meshes are 6 sided objects each (i.e. cubes and rectangles) linked to bones. Now, they could have all those (albeit invisible) "collision detection cubes" in the game-scene on at render time but that could take away from the overall polygon count. After all at say 6 polygons per collision detection box that could add anywhere up to 200 polys per character if they were being fussy. All the characters would amount to 4600 poly's robbed (22 players plus ref). Tracking 4600 polygons colliding could cripple FPS (Frames Per Second).

So they could do the following:

- have all collision boxes turned off until the ball comes close (say 10 game metres), then turn on the relevant player's collision boxes, do the calculation, let the ball do it's thing, and then once out of that 10 game meteres area turn if off again

- not have the collision boxes in the game (thus freeing up the poly count) but instead use the XYX data (i.e. maths to construct the six sided box) via code and use maths to calculate the "area" of the collision. They would do that by getting the artists to size up an invisible box in a 3D program, and then they would note the XYZ values of the 8 corners of that box and "reconstruct" that area in code when the game runs.

either of these two ways, like Drekkard said, it's CPU intensive and prone to error. If it misses too much calculation (i.e. is not finished by the time it should be) the ball (or other player's collision box) is to have likely already passed through the area it is supposed to be calculating by the CPU to keep the game going (God I hope that made sense).

So I am guessing Drekkard is saying something like:

eg. Game runs at 30fps and collisions are calculated EVERY FRAME so it is checking for collisions 30 times a second.

Frame 21: the ball (in XYZ space) is before a player's chest collision box (so therefore not actually intersecting) it does not know it has hit it.

Frame 22: the ball has intersected, so the CPU is now calculating what to do.

Frame 23: the outcome is calculated and the ball is thrown off in a certain direction.

So why does it fail and a ball goes straight through? The ball was too fast... for the collision detection.

"But the ball wasn't travelling that damn fast!" I hear you say.

IF it's checking EVERY FRAME, surely you would expect 100% accuracy - BUT it would likely cripple FPS/Performance of the game. They may opt to check every 2nd, 3rd or even 4th frame... So then it's checking frame 20, then Frame 24 in a worst case scenario.

The Ball's already come and gone in that case... and at a 25% accuracy! (1/4 frames checked). Like Dekkard said, they may use the CPU to roughly try to interpolate ("fill in the blanks") and that would no doubt result in some particularities/bugs/weirdness.

So you can see they have to balance resources of the CPU... pumping up every accuracy setting etc would be great but I doubt the game would run well. They have to compromise somewhere.

Next time you see someone make a comment like "Frame-rate chugging? Must be the graphics" then you can say: "Well - actually the CPU is kinda busy with code too". Although the code maybe written litely (so not take up to much kb/Mb in RAM), the calculations produced by the CPU can be stratospheric.
Click to expand...

:APPLAUD:









:FAIL:

dude, ever heard of simulation games? if today tech already capable of calculating physics involving tire pressure on racing cars or calculating missiles trajectory toward their targets based on their own radar; then dong what you described on a football games should be easy.

the questiion is whether the dev want to do that or not
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Thanks again gragra I understand enough for it to make sense.
Do you believe that the current gen consoles have the processing power to make a football game with stupendous collision detection, drop dead gorgeous graphics, while maintaining a fluent 60fps flow to the game?

The thing about football games is that there is so much happening over a large area without the stop and start of say American football.
I'm also a huge rugby fan and am dying to play a next gen rugby game, but understand that this would be more complex than football.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

ieyan said:
YouTube - PES 2010 - England vs Brazil Highlights
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Jeez some of the player likenesses are unreal. David James f.e Brilliant. The match looked really enjoyable, end to end action.

Question though, can you not curl crosses? They all seem very straight. No deviation at all in the ball's flight.

Also lol @ the penalty vid. How bad was the player?
Shame about the weird animation :(
 
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