PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

skillaz said:
I'm confused here u r telling me that after reading the reviews that the game is about 70% completed and is expecting more features to be added before this title is released in Nov that's hogwash what u saw or read at gamescon is what u get u feel programming or development of games takes a couple of months no it takes years and believe me don't expect any more features added to the game what u see is what u get
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Did you go to pesgaming.com to read the preview or review by both guys who playtested the game? I am not saying expect a new build. What i am saying is that, like they said is, "expect things like throw in barriers to be gone, expect some new animations to be added and few other details or errors that can be fixed within the remaining mnths left for release.

Kapische.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

h3li0 said:
But according to your point of view it makes sense of business, to broke the last two and make lousy games (08 & 09), so then they could fix it little by little....

I think they´ve improved in a great way regarding PES09 for what i´ve seen, but they could do much more in certain aspect. BTW hope they´l do it and we see it in the demo.
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Ok thats the way, you choose to look at it. Do you think Seabass and Konami sat down and say lets bring out the lousiest game possible ? Absolutely not. They try their best to bring out a game every year but we all know won't satisfy every customers high standard and they themselves know areas they can improve on in their upcoming series the following year.

So in summary, they can never make a perfect game. Some will always find something to moan about. Like someone already moaning about the keeper gloves looking like an Oven or baking gloves :YAWN:
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

mmeny said:
Ok thats the way, you choose to look at it. Do you think Seabass and Konami sat down and say lets bring out the lousiest game possible ? Absolutely not. They try their best to bring out a game every year but we all know won't satisfy every customers high standard and they themselves know areas they can improve on in their upcoming series the following year.

So in summary, they can never make a perfect game. Some will always find something to moan about. Like someone already moaning about the keeper gloves looking like an Oven or baking gloves :YAWN:
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Good. Because moaning and complaining is the catalyst for change. And without change, there can be no improvement.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

With the new hires at PES productions, I guess PES has a bright future ahead of it.... it's not unlikely that next year we get:

1) Foot planting and a new animation system
2) A physics engine for collisions and tackles...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

profit90 said:
Good. Because moaning and complaining is the catalyst for change. And without change, there can be no improvement.
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Dude change=improvement. I don't know what u are on about.Constant whining and moaning doesn't solve no problem for real.

Konami tries to strike the right balance between pleasing hardcore n casual fans.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
With the new hires at PES productions, I guess PES has a bright future ahead of it.... it's not unlikely that next year we get:

1) Foot planting and a new animation system
2) A physics engine for collisions and tackles...
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Knight,you also have to take into account that Konami has their own business plan or idea where they wanna take the game to. What i mean is that, they also outline what area in the game they really wanna improve while at the same time trying to appease the loudest fan clamour.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
With the new hires at PES productions, I guess PES has a bright future ahead of it.... it's not unlikely that next year we get:

1) Foot planting and a new animation system
2) A physics engine for collisions and tackles...
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TBH knight i really cant see konami putting out a final build with all the stutters and that with animations. well not on pc at least,the only thing that concerns me with the consoles is the gpu size, and also i wonder if on consoles you get the option to skip frames,maybe it frameskips by default? do you know? the reason i say this is since i built my own rig i disable frame skipping and this has a massive improvement on animations.err 2009 i am talking about.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
I thought those nitpicking line-by-line replies were gone... like 5-10 years ago, when every Evo-web member had already hit puberty. Sorry, I really don't like them.

Unless you had an Adobe After effects compass to measure each angle turn in PES2010's videos to determine they were not 360-degrees, but only 16, please, shut up. PES2010 has 360 degree movement. Flick your analogue stick in a 77-degree angle, that's how you'll move. Flick it in a 78-degree angle, and that's how you'll move. Now, two questions remain:

1) Is PES2010's animation system fluid and resourceful enough to demonstrate a difference between a 77 and a 78 degree turn? No. Does that mean PES2010 doesn't have 360-degree movement? No.

2) Is the human eye capable of detecting the difference between a 77-degree turn and a 78-degree turn in a video game? No. Does that mean PES2010 doesn't have 360-degree movement? No.

Capiche? Now please, give it a rest with the "It's not 360 it's 16" argument.
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Sometimes it's dull to use a whole paragraph to refute something which is factually incorrect, and when you are really tired.. This time just for you I'll reply to it in the more accepted format.

The reason you can tell that it's not 360, and 16, is because the players still travel in well formed lines. If they are sprinting down the wing, they stick in a PERFECTLY straight line. Now this may be because EVERY player is using the D-PAD. It isn't impossible.. but I would have thought that would mean we wouldn't see 16, and 8 degrees of motion?

Having played FIFA 09 quite a lot, I'm very assured of what 16 degrees looks like, and I'm pretty certain that's what the videos of PES show off at the moment. Now, admittedly, I couldn't tell whether it was 78, or 77, but I can tell if it's... 85, or, 70, as that's actually quite a large angle.

What I see in PES's videos is where the player never goes.. slightly less than straight. Slightly more than straight. So, please, when I say it's 16 degrees I say it because it clearly is. 16 degrees is low-fidelity enough for it to be plainly obvious.

If you watch the FIFA videos, there is a very distinct difference. Watch a player run down the wing, and you see them taking touches which are slightly to the left, slightly to the right, as the player isn't all that steady. That is exactly as it ought to be. At the moment, I am 100% sure that it is not 360 degree motion. It may be 360 degree with some limit to it, but to be honest, I'm pretty sure it's 16. It looks so similar to FIFA 09's sprinting.

edit: In reply to 1). The animations should not need to change to allow the difference between 78, and 77. This is a 3d game. The animation for running is the same in both. The turn animation to make the difference of a +-1 degree turning is possibly more of a constraint. This is where FIFA's new engine can probably really help, as they probably don't need to add in hundreds of turn animations to do this kind of thing.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

mmeny said:
Knight,you also have to take into account that Konami has their own business plan or idea where they wanna take the game to. What i mean is that, they also outline what area in the game they really wanna improve while at the same time trying to appease the loudest fan clamour.
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Well if they're listening to fans (which is something new), they would have probably noticed the uproar regarding the dates animations. Needless to say I'm sure one of them saw FIFA move...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Sorry if reposted:

Interview with SEABASS:

Eurogamer: You’re this year in a new situation. Last year was all the world that Fifa had overtaken PES. What effect did this have on the development of PES 2010?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: We saw this a bit differently. In our opinion, FIFA was better last year than we did. They have not caught up. They were much better. Of course, our site is important, as FIFA is good or not, but that’s not the point. Much more shocking for us was, however, as the PES-user thought. We have seen that they were not happy with PES 2009 and that was much more shocking for us and produced great pressure. Because of these reactions, we owe them a much better game in 2010.

That was the feeling with which we approach the development of PES 2010.

Eurogamer: How did the depressed in development?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: With PES 2009 ended an era. PES 2010 is also for us an entirely new PES, a game that forms the basis of a new generation. We say this because we have changed the way in which we create PES. Until 2009, we have created the game action for action and assembled into a game. That was ok until 2009. But the gameplay became too arcade, action-on.

For PES 2010, we said to ourselves: we must change our approach. We have therefore set in from the front a number of goals: Where are we going, what players we wanted to target and how they should look the matches, and have been working on it. So we have changed the creative process.

Secondly, in PES 2010 we wanted to improve the attack of the players yet, but would not play games, which fall into too many goals. So we have developed a new style of zone defense, which ensures that your results are more realistic.

This type of development we have used the first time in 15 years and therefore we can say that we have with PES 2010 gameplay finally reached the next level. We also have the slider strategies and the card system to the players introduced. These features are also an example of the new approach.

Eurogamer: The 360-degree control has indeed FIFA announced as the first. Now she makes it. How long have you studied this technique already, and what do you think she is doing for Pro Evolution Soccer?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: We actually have long experiment with the 360-degree control. We always thought a lot about when most would be the best timing for it. Only last year we thought it would have been the right time, then this year. We have always thought about the timing - and because FIFA is now also makes, of course, we thought we finally integrate them into our product. But it is not just a fight “Fifa makes it, so we have to.” We have always experimented around with it and wanted to make the already quite a while.

In terms of ball control: That you should just try yourself time to figure out how to change the game. I can tell you however that may be observed especially on the side lines is a big change. Where the time the ball went out of bounds, they can be kept in PES 2010, with only a small move, perhaps still in the game. On the other hand, if you are not careful, you can carry the ball with the 360-degree control even easier out of play. You will feel this difference, then, very clearly. Especially on the lines.

Eurogamer: You look yourself a lot of football for research purposes? Therefore, you bring your new ideas?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: Actually I get the main input of it if I PES players may see it while playing. This gives me a different perspective than when I watch real football. I can think of many more things that I could integrate into the game. There is always something to improve. In fact, I even had ideas for the next few years.

Eurogamer: With dribbling superstars could overcome in 2009, the defense is still too easy. How can you stop in 2010, this powerful player?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: players like Ronaldo and Messi, so these dribbler themselves in genuine Football exceptional abilities, so they have in our game. For 2010, we did not want to weaken. Messi is a brilliant player and it would not be fair to reduce its value. Instead, we have renewed the zone defense system. It is our opinion the right way.

In real football Messi is to stop in one-on-one very difficult. But there are examples where such superstars are effectively taken out of play “because the team works together and the players to help out each other in the zone defense.

Eurogamer: Even the goalkeepers were a problem in the last game, right?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: Yes, we have first improved somewhat, so that they can be not so easy this time loaded with tricks. Furthermore, we have the team we have always asked myself why it is so easy to overcome the keeper. Well, in real football, in a one-on-one situation, a completely free attacker a good chance to sink the ball.

Again, we have a little thought differently. We wanted to cooperate, the defenders anymore. So we have the defense system adapted so that a pure one-occur less frequently on-one situations. The defenders will defend the goal always coincided with the keeper to prevent the attack is not so easily have.

Eurogamer: What has changed in the champions league?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: The Master League has visually changed. But this is not the most important. The most important changes stuck in the end. Some in the financial system: If you won a game’s predecessors, you got a certain amount of points that were needed to guide the club. This time it’s even income from sponsors. If your team goes on a tour that takes you to one more example, just like in real football.

In addition, it was then game over, if you had arrived in the red. This time, we thought, in reality this is not always the case. Even if one falls into the red, you can buy, for example, one player who is so popular, for example, that you get more viewers and thus deserves more money again. I believe this gives the game a larger management component. But there are so many other new things.

We have also integrated the true European league and the Champions League in the real Champions League. We wanted it in the Champions League comes to build, not just the players but also the association. To sum up: It’s just become more interesting.

Eurogamer: The online was a problem in the previous game. What will be different this time?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: Online in the past was a problem for us. We have therefore revised the system. To be precise, the PES 2008-360-based version of our favor because we felt that it worked best at the end.

There is also an online community and an online Champions League, are really great. Namely, if one line comes into the knockout stage of the tournament, it’s just like in the real Champions League. This is very exciting.

Eurogamer: The game seems to be a little slower overall. Was the basis of realism concerns?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: Yes, that is also connected with that of PES 2010 we changed our approach to development. We have set ourselves some goals at the beginning of development, have analyzed many aspects of real football, and implements this knowledge in the game. The balance of the players speed is a quantity that we have analyzed in great detail.
The thing is this: We need zusammendampfen a game like football that is played over 90 minutes to 10 minutes. So there must be differences in the sequence. Therefore, the flow of the game may seem a little slower to give pure realistic impression of the game.

Eurogamer: Is there a small new gameplay feature is that many people do not notice at first playing, but it is still very important?

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: This is probably mainly the new zone defense: So far, most attack situations, basically a one-on-one. That has changed now, thanks to the new zone defense. If you want to stop powerful dribbler like Messi you have to slow down their attack just to attack, they may not. In this way we get more support from other midfielders or defenders. This is something that has not previously happened.
I recommend all players as well, Straddle once more. This year, the straddle is in fact quite different. Tried it!”
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The footplanting could probably be added now without any/many core changes, i've seen much middleware using it, but it definitely won't be in this years.
It's cool how it works, you manipulate the thigh-shin-foot-toe bones on an animation based on height, angle etc, easy for footy games as ground is flat with no slopes etc, bugs appear though when you start turning players around fast ie if a player just plants his left foot with his right one then just lifted then you decide to turn left what happens? In reality you would lead a left turn/move with your left foot, it looks and feels natural, in a game in this situation you would end up leading with the right, crossing your legs and looking daft - or wait for the right foot to land and then plant so you can use your left leg to lead but this would cause a delay and may be annoying.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Shingo ‘Seabass’ Takatsuka: With PES 2009 ended an era. PES 2010 is also for us an entirely new PES, a game that forms the basis of a new generation. We say this because we have changed the way in which we create PES. Until 2009, we have created the game action for action and assembled into a game. That was ok until 2009. But the gameplay became too arcade, action-on.
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LOL! That's the exact same shit he said last year, what a crock. Allow me to look up Lami's sig...

PES2008 ended an era because it was just a pile of steaming dog turd, how the hell did KONAMI get away with that one...
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Everytime I read things from Seabass, the less I respect him. He shows little passion, little knowledge about football and piss-poo managerial abbilities.

He seems to confirm they had toyed with 360º movement but didn't succeed and when they knew EA was putting it in in Fifa, they decided to implement it at any cost. The total ignorance about how a game is done in next-gen is appaling, it doesn't surprise me how the PES series has gone lately.

About the foot planting and so, great GIFs showing the obvious. Don't expect miracles and don't fall in the builds BS, this is something that takes a LOT of time to develop, because they have to rebuild their animation engine almost from scrap. So it's not something they can add in one month, nor even refine it.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I think SB has become synonymous as the face of PES's problems, all this 2009 is what 2008 should have been and the over positive posturing could be down to translation errors but I think the best thing Konami did was to give him a back seat, he should have stayed below the radar until 2010 was out...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The mention of long passes in the pes gaming article sounded quite good to me. I've felt long passes have never really been useful in any PES game.

I'm still hoping they've fixed in-direct free kicks in regards to players positioning. The amount of times you want to float the ball into the box and all the players are standing outside the area just kills me
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Everytime I read things from Seabass, the less I respect him. He shows little passion, little knowledge about football and piss-poo managerial abbilities.

He seems to confirm they had toyed with 360º movement but didn't succeed and when they knew EA was putting it in in Fifa, they decided to implement it at any cost. The total ignorance about how a game is done in next-gen is appaling, it doesn't surprise me how the PES series has gone lately.
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Damn, my exact sentiment ... as much as I play pes09 so frequently and find it doing quite a few things right and plenty wrong I was quite excited about PES'10 the less I saw or heard from seabass.

Most of the images, trailers were, I admit, seducing me like every year and my scepticism was unarmoured. I fell into the hype craze with the videos of Messi mo-cap sessions & seeing all these new faces on the PES team I thought there would be an engine overhaul... a reboot particularly on fluidity annihilating all the rigidness and turgidness of '09. Then it happend, Seabass!

My enthuisiasm for the title has been waning ever since he started appearing again on the PES'10 scene in hand with the recent gameplay footage etc. I've since re-instigated my original cautious sceptical stance on the game till a demo, however I'm getting that sinking PES feeling again unfortunately.

I just think there are a lot of fundamental changes required by this PES team, an overhaul from engine to presentation etc. Do I think PES'10 will be a good improvement on 09, yes definately but it will have tons of the same glaring issues especially regarding rigidness.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

"We need zusammendampfen a game like football that is played over 90 minutes to 10 minutes"

he can't just make words up like that, surely..haha
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

mmeny said:
Dude change=improvement. I don't know what u are on about.Constant whining and moaning doesn't solve no problem for real.

Konami tries to strike the right balance between pleasing hardcore n casual fans.
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That is subjective, for an example, in this new gen consoles change was not an improvement in the last 2 titles, at least in what interest the most GAMEPLAY

No one is moaning, just giving a point of view of what had happened in the last years, that they change the game in a bad way. Like you said moaning and whining doesn´t solve it but praising the game like it was the best thing on earth solves it? NOT.

That just gives konami reason not to change if everyone keeps saying its ok. ( always heard, don´t move on a winning team )

All we want is a great PES game again, because the earlier 2 is almost unanimous, that it was a bad game. In the last ones on ps2 you always ear moaning but it was way to less unanimous, and they moan about certain gliches that don´t afect in gameplay as this earlier 2 do.

They get better this year because people complaint, and they saw they´re going in a bad way, but in my opinion the could get better in some aspects. We are not expecting like you said they fix everithing in a year because that not possible, but just because they F*** up the last two games.

Everithing as room for improvements, and there will be bad thing every year, that we´re gonna complain about, but if its minor thing, like licences, game modes and some tweaks in the gameplay its ok, not when its in all gameplay.

And for the record the Seabass imself, said they had a bad game in the last years.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Does anyone have an idea of what Seabass was talking about here? I hope he wasn't talking about getting his leg over.


"..I recommend all players also straddle once more. This year, the straddle is in fact quite different. Try it!”
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

That's FIFA on PC. Not many people on here (or indeed in the universe) will call that a good game.

PC engine = Not really moved on from PS2.
Next-gen engine = Another world entirely...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

drekkard said:
Everytime I read things from Seabass, the less I respect him. He shows little passion, little knowledge about football and piss-poo managerial abbilities.

He seems to confirm they had toyed with 360º movement but didn't succeed and when they knew EA was putting it in in Fifa, they decided to implement it at any cost. The total ignorance about how a game is done in next-gen is appaling, it doesn't surprise me how the PES series has gone lately.

About the foot planting and so, great GIFs showing the obvious. Don't expect miracles and don't fall in the builds BS, this is something that takes a LOT of time to develop, because they have to rebuild their animation engine almost from scrap. So it's not something they can add in one month, nor even refine it.
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Dude you are talking about one of the most respected men in his trade in the world. If it wasn't for him and his team, football games today would not be what they are. Granted he's not as technically astute as you there infront of your High-end top of the range PC I'm sure.

I read the interview (well what I could understand) and thought that he makes excellent points and sees things that we do not necesarilly see (usually the case with a genius). I do not always agree with what he says and does but respect his place in football gaming history and know he is not done yet.

For once try and post at least one thing positive about PES, you are starting to sound like a child and seemingly bitter that Konami implemented something over a long weekend that EA hoped was their trump card....tsk,tsk this from a fellow Barca supporter.

I bet if konami didn't have 360 movement you would be writing a thesis of their inadequacies as a result of it but now that it's in you are going for footplanting.

Pathetic! I for one know where I would like to plant my foot.
 
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