PES2010 discussion thread

[The_Knight]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Ok, things get easier when compared....

EA in 2007 threw away their old animation engine, and started a brand new one, with foot planting, and where the game's engine generates an animation based on calculations such as the center of gravity, foot placement, joint range, ball location and desired move. This made the game virtually capable of generating almost any animation. In its current form (FIFA10), the result is spectacular.

On the other hand, PES2010 is still using its' old-gen animations system, but they replaced the rigid looking ones with motion-captured more realistic looking ones... the result is:

1) Animations that are VERY REMINISCENT of PES4-6
2) Abrupt turns, unrealistic reactions.
3) Players moving slower than the actual speed of their animations.
4) Feet sliding all over the ground.

So yes, with regard to animations, PES2010 (as amazing as I think it is even at 70%) is still using an old-gen animation system that cannot be compared to EA's.

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The problem is this. If you look at the other games new engine (FIFA 07), though the game itself was terrible, the engine was clearly going to allow huge advances.

With PES 2008 on the other hand, it's not like that. The engine, new or not, is incredibly similar to the previous engine. There is no huge jump in how it works, and that was what FIFA 07 had, and what is paying off today.



Did it?! Couldn't stand PES2009 personally. Massively preferred 6.



What makes it next gen? What is PES doing now which it wasn't doing in 5? Graphically, it's definitely better. Visually I see jumps. In gameplay terms, I see nothing really that impressive with this 'new' engine. The tactical stuff with the sliders and the cards is good, but, something I'm sure they could have done before.

What can this engine achieve which the old engines couldn't?

As for the 360.. Not convinced. They seem to be putting it in last minute which is something EA were certain they didn't want to do. So I slightly worry about the way it will be. Who knows. It remains to be seen. Hopefully they don't fall into the traps that EA must have seen.



Individuality is something which FIFA lacks, no-one denies that, but that is a soluble problem. The FIFA engine is built from scratch, and is NOTHING like the old FIFA engine. Nothing at all, and I'm a conisseur, having bought a lot of the old FIFA Ps2 engines (too young/naive to care that there was a far better game across the way at the time, and it took me til 5 and 6 to buy PES).

I just don't see the similarity really, between FIFA 06 on the PS2, and FIFA 09 on the 360. As for unpredictability? I find FIFA 09 at least as unpredictable as the old PES (don't know with the newer iterations 08/09, as I couldn't stand to play them honestly).

Individuality can be solved, and it will be when the community really get behind asking for it. Currently they seem set on perfecting the gameplay engine itself, and they have got a marvellous engine there working it. It's not perfect. The responsiveness was a large issue and there were some fairly large, though not particularly numerous problems which really hurt the gameplay in FIFA 09, but FIFA 09, for me, and for most people I believe, was the best football simulation ever made.. but it's certainly a long way off perfection.



This is true and has always been true with FIFA, though, certainly it wasn't what truly held it back in the previous generation.

Hopefully FIFA can work to solve that, though I don't want it to be as exaggerated as in PES. It should be a factor, not a law.



Not really, because it's still true. PES 2010 has NOT advanced much in the last 4 years. Frankly, we're all hoping that it's got back to the stage it was 3 years ago, and then added on from there. FIFA has a huge, huge amount. That doesn't mean FIFA is ahead necessarily - it had a lot further to go.

As for 'neither is better or worse', it's not really fair to say that. You could say that about any game, and to an extent it is always down to the eye of the beholder, but there are areas where you can look at it and say: FIFA has it better, PES has it better. At the end of the day people have to make the decision for themselves after playing it, but there are some objective statements you can make about certain things - for instance PES's faces, which are great this year.

For fucks sake the only Konami games you've played are Pes5&6?
You didn't play PES2008 or 2009. How did I get sucked into this debate?!
Of course you wont see anything because you wouldn't know what too look for.

Lets see there's graphics,
Animations,
360 movement,
No invisible walls at throw ins,
No 90 degree turns,
A revamped ML with sponsors, youth teams, scouts, physical trainers, doctors, real currency,
Theres no more sandbags,
No more dog heads,
A CL license,
A Europa license,
The list goes on.....

 

[Zakov]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

My signature is because after PES 08 and 09 the series looked to be dead... If PES10 turns out to be a really good game then I will change it.

Funny how I often resisted the urge to use that sort of thing(this game,that game RIP nonsense) for FIFA even when it was a horror show back in the day. There's always a chance for things to change, you just have to open-minded to any possibilities and patient as well. You probably meant that sig as a laugh but still, I expected you to have more sense than that.

 

[profit90]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

4) Feet sliding all over the ground.

Is foot sliding still a problem in 2010. I hope not.

 

[Lons]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

For fucks sake the only Konami games you've played are Pes5&6?
You didn't play PES2008 or 2009. How did I get sucked into this debate?!
Of course you wont see anything because you wouldn't know what too look for.

Lets see there's graphics,
Animations,
360 movement,
No invisible walls at throw ins,
No 90 degree turns,
A revamped ML with sponsors, youth teams, scouts, physical trainers, doctors, real currency,
Theres no more sandbags,
No more dog heads,
A CL license,
A Europa license,
The list goes on.....

You forgot untucked shirts

 

[Andy]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The problem is this. If you look at the other games new engine (FIFA 07), though the game itself was terrible, the engine was clearly going to allow huge advances.

With PES 2008 on the other hand, it's not like that. The engine, new or not, is incredibly similar to the previous engine. There is no huge jump in how it works, and that was what FIFA 07 had, and what is paying off today.

What makes it next gen? What is PES doing now which it wasn't doing in 5?


As for unpredictability? I find FIFA 09 at least as unpredictable as the old PES (don't know with the newer iterations 08/09, as I couldn't stand to play them honestly).

Good post, the only points i would like to mention is..

1.Yes i would agree that that current gen (still next gen to some!)engine is basically a enhanced version of last gen (ps2)but in a way you cant blame konami for this, because i think that many people went overboard with pes6 so konami must have thought well if it aint broke dont fix it.And as for ea they really felt they needed a big overall with a new engine, so as to catch konami, which as you say has obviously put them in good stead now.

2.Really just graphics make a game next gen imo. as for changes from 5? Hopefully not a lot! a lot of people may say i am living in the past by saying this but, as i have said before this was a good sim and although its old it would still not look out of place with todays real life game, gameplay & pacewise.

3.Tbh i cannot comment about Fifa 09 as i have not played it (albeit one game on pc) but i will say with pes games you could play for months and my mate or me would say wow thats never happened before,believe it or not even with the commentries. one example was with 2008 i saw the keeper hang on the crossbar after tipping the ball over about 4 times in about nine months. as for my mate he never even saw it.

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Is foot sliding still a problem in 2010. I hope not.

It's not in PES2009 but I saw it in one of the Gamescom vids. I hope they get rid of it.

 

[adelante]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

It's not in PES2009...

Heh. You're deluding yourself into thinking that it doesn't exist, let alone not be a problem..


It's existed since the first winning eleven, it'll continue to exist until Konami implements some sort of a footplanting system

 

[Rodelero]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

For fucks sake the only Konami games you've played are Pes5&6?
You didn't play PES2008 or 2009. How did I get sucked into this debate?!
Of course you wont see anything because you wouldn't know what too look for.

... I don't really bother comparing a game with it's bad predecessors, when I can compare it to it's good ones. If this game isn't a serious improvement on PES5/6, there is no way in HELL that I'm going to buy it. Of course it's better than 2008, and 9. Especially 8. 2008 was horrendous. (I have played the demos, and a bit of the full game... just not particularly heavily).

Lets see there's graphics,
Animations,

aesthetic essentially.. haven't seen much functionality which is different.

360 movement,

wha? It's not 360 in any of the videos. It's 16. In every PES 10 video I've seen (including that new, more promising one, it's still 16.

No invisible walls at throw ins,
No 90 degree turns,

?! Plenty of 90 degree turns.

A revamped ML with sponsors, youth teams, scouts, physical trainers, doctors, real currency,
Theres no more sandbags,
No more dog heads,
A CL license,
A Europa license,
The list goes on.....

I thought licenses were the thing PES fans didn't care for? ML is really not my thing (nor is FIFA's MM). What are dog heads?

 

[Lami]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Funny how I often resisted the urge to use that sort of thing(this game,that game RIP nonsense) for FIFA even when it was a horror show back in the day. There's always a chance for things to change, you just have to open-minded to any possibilities and patient as well. You probably meant that sig as a laugh but still, I expected you to have more sense than that.

Exactly the reason why I have been buying every Fifa game since 1994, with ever year going "Sigh..." until Fifa UEFA CL 06-07 where I started seeing changes. Look where Fifa is now.

 

[The_Knight]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

... I don't really bother comparing a game with it's bad predecessors, when I can compare it to it's good ones. If this game isn't a serious improvement on PES5/6, there is no way in HELL that I'm going to buy it. Of course it's better than 2008, and 9. Especially 8. 2008 was horrendous. (I have played the demos, and a bit of the full game... just not particularly heavily).

aesthetic essentially.. haven't seen much functionality which is different.

wha? It's not 360 in any of the videos. It's 16. In every PES 10 video I've seen (including that new, more promising one, it's still 16.



?! Plenty of 90 degree turns.



I thought licenses were the thing PES fans didn't care for? ML is really not my thing (nor is FIFA's MM). What are dog heads?

I thought those nitpicking line-by-line replies were gone... like 5-10 years ago, when every Evo-web member had already hit puberty. Sorry, I really don't like them.

Unless you had an Adobe After effects compass to measure each angle turn in PES2010's videos to determine they were not 360-degrees, but only 16, please, shut up. PES2010 has 360 degree movement. Flick your analogue stick in a 77-degree angle, that's how you'll move. Flick it in a 78-degree angle, and that's how you'll move. Now, two questions remain:

1) Is PES2010's animation system fluid and resourceful enough to demonstrate a difference between a 77 and a 78 degree turn? No. Does that mean PES2010 doesn't have 360-degree movement? No.

2) Is the human eye capable of detecting the difference between a 77-degree turn and a 78-degree turn in a video game? No. Does that mean PES2010 doesn't have 360-degree movement? No.

Capiche? Now please, give it a rest with the "It's not 360 it's 16" argument.

 

[Andy]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

TBH guys there are far too many assumptions (when you assume you make an ass out of u and me)about a game where hardly any of us have held a joypad to really know for sure how its improved, all we have is vids and feedback from good sources that it is shaping up to be a good game in its own right, and i take that for now. if you think it looks no good or are gonna get fifa instead or just generally want to bash the game then please stop. If i had a pound for each of said like posts since gamescom then i would be a rich man, and i could have saved hours from trawling through it

 

[zeemeister]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Let him be knight he doesn't know what dog heads are either.

 

[skillaz]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I must disagree in order to see progressive developments we must trek back in time so there must be a comparison made between the games pes 2008 /2009 those who play on the ps2 and pc versions have the access to update via the patch version whilst the next gen gaming community r stuck with final game version so if konami doesn't get it right by listening, improving and addressing the issues belted out by the fan community then who suffers i say no more

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Unless you had an Adobe After effects compass to measure each angle turn in PES2010's videos to determine they were not 360-degrees, but only 16, please, shut up. PES2010 has 360 degree movement. Flick your analogue stick in a 77-degree angle, that's how you'll move. Flick it in a 78-degree angle, and that's how you'll move.

To be fair, the movement in those videos doesn't look like full 360. More like 16 or 32 direction. I'm pretty sure Suff and Riot mentioned this in the latest NEWB podcast that they felt it was only 16 directions.

No matter. I said all along that I would be more than happy with just 16-way movement. Anything better than 8-way is a step in the right direction.

 

[skillaz]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Since when does the graphics of the crowd and stadium dictate the overall rating of a footie sim if this was so fifa 08 / 09 would have failed miserably r u blind in pes 2008 /2009 the crowd animations were improved to 3D and i guess u have not seen screen shots of the stadiums in pes2010 i believe u need to go back in the forums archive and read before u post these ridiculous and untrue comments . In future READ then Post !!!!!!!

 

[diogo27]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

If the PES2010 go bad, the least that konami could do would be new patches according to the majority opinion, wait a whole year to make new promises of a better game already was saturated, pes2008 was a very bad game and that even incomplete so it was released, perhaps by the pressure of capitalism is about making money first, pes2009 has been better, but it was a game that has pleased me, it shows the beauty of football, players are very robotic, very unrealistic movements, players who take cart racing and fall behind, so inexplicable even to physical ...

 

[mjsmith2k]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

To be fair, the movement in those videos doesn't look like full 360. More like 16 or 32 direction. I'm pretty sure Suff and Riot mentioned this in the latest NEWB podcast that they felt it was only 16 directions.

No matter. I said all along that I would be more than happy with just 16-way movement. Anything better than 8-way is a step in the right direction.

Yep, apparently you have to use the close control movement to see the 360 degrees in all it's glory. I wish someone would just create a video showing off these features to put our minds at rest. The same goes for the 'other' game. All this speculation is doing neither any favours.

 

[_anderson]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I just wanted to say that I really don't want PES to follow the role model of Fifa. Dunno about footplanting (and what it would cause really), but if they ever copy the way that shots, crosses and drible sessions 1vs1 are like on Fifa, PES never more.

But yeah, is a bit frustrating that Konami doesn't seem to be able to keep up in some aspects, like the full use of the current technology. They either know very well what they are doing and that certain stuff can hurt the pes feeling, or they have no idea how to use the current technologies. Maybe some of those 200+ persons does know what can be done to make it realistic and better, but the guy who "tells the rules" AKA Seabass needs a replacement.

 

[Zakov]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Yep, apparently you have to use the close control movement to see the 360 degrees in all it's glory. I wish someone would just create a video showing off these features to put our minds at rest. The same goes for the 'other' game. All this speculation is doing neither any favours.

Since they announced the feature so majestically, I think either KONAMI or EA should've created a trailer/video which showcases the 360 movement. I mean, just go to training mode and show a video of the PS3/360 controller on one side and the in-game player movement on the other side demonstrating the so-called 360 movement.
Like u said, its not a blatant feature on the eyes, but I'm sure it'll make a difference once we play it ourselves.

Agree with yer there, as I posted the exact same thing a while ago. It'll end all this, "oh hang on a minute, me eyes are telling me it looks more like 8/16 directions!!"

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Yep, apparently you have to use the close control movement to see the 360 degrees in all it's glory. I wish someone would just create a video showing off these features to put our minds at rest. The same goes for the 'other' game. All this speculation is doing neither any favours.

A simple two minute trailer from Konami and EA would clear this up for everyone. Considering 360 movement is supposedly such a huge feature I'm surprised that neither company has released any promo material highlighting this feature.

 

[mr_man]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

To be fair, the movement in those videos doesn't look like full 360. More like 16 or 32 direction. I'm pretty sure Suff and Riot mentioned this in the latest NEWB podcast that they felt it was only 16 directions.

No matter. I said all along that I would be more than happy with just 16-way movement. Anything better than 8-way is a step in the right direction.

Didn't they make clear that animations and actual 360 are different things? I think people are getting those 2 a bit tangled, they want players to change direction fluidly, but since none of us have played the game, everyones whining is null and void.

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Didn't they make clear that animations and actual 360 are different things? I think people are getting those 2 a bit tangled, they want players to change direction fluidly, but since none of us have played the game, everyones whining is null and void.

Fair enough. But this a chat forum so we are all entitled to give our opinions on what we have seen. My opinion is that PES2010 is not full 360 degree from what I have seen in the videos. Nothing to do with the animations - I'm just not seeing the players move in that many different directions. Same with the Fifa videos.

 

[sindii]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

with the amount of middleware available, the technologies are out there for footplanting etc to work flawlessly in games. I've worked with some and really think games like pes should be using them.

 

[Chris Davies]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

A simple two minute trailer from Konami and EA would clear this up for everyone. Considering 360 movement is supposedly such a huge feature I'm surprised that neither company has released any promo material highlighting this feature.

The Gamescom FIFA trailer shows the path a winger takes to goal from a birdseye view and you can clearly see the path he takes is "free". There's a wonky quarter of a circle at the start where he gets around a midfielder if I remember that rightly, and then as he's sprinting down the line the path differs by a couple of degrees as he changes direction.

It was a pretty good way to show the effect it has I thought because on FIFA it would be STRAIGHT, ANGLE, STRAIGHT, ANGLE and in the same view it would look like zigzags.

EDIT: Screenshot below (not my screenshot so I apologise for the ridiculous size).

Spoiler

 

[Jamezinho]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The Gamescom FIFA trailer shows the path a winger takes to goal from a birdseye view and you can clearly see the path he takes is "free". There's a wonky quarter of a circle at the start where he gets around a midfielder if I remember that rightly, and then as he's sprinting down the line the path differs by a couple of degrees as he changes direction.

It was a pretty good way to show the effect it has I thought because on FIFA it would be STRAIGHT, ANGLE, STRAIGHT, ANGLE and in the same view it would look like zigzags.

EDIT: Screenshot below (not my screenshot so I apologise for the ridiculous size).

Spoiler

I was thinking more of a dedicated trailer, maybe showing the inputs on the controller alongside the player on the screen showing exactly how the feature works. But, point taken.

I don't doubt Fifa is more 360 than PES (I doubt either is full 360 if you know what I mean) but you have to look hard in the trailers and videos to find it.

 

[Gab_]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Why wouldn't they be full 360? I'm pretty sure that after every touch of the ball the player will go in the direction you held at that moment, both with same games.

If people expect ice skating 360 like in old football games, then no, it will not be that kind of 360 thank god.

 

[skillaz]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I just don't know jimmy I'ld go nuts if I were Seabass you just cant please the masses. It makes me wonder if the fan feedback thing is such a good idea. God forbid PES should lose it's character and become a FIFA clone.
THAT MIGHT NOT BE SUCH A BAD IDEA seeing that ea stole some of pes ideas that was so blatant in their upcoming fifa titles e.g. BE A PRO (BAL) Become A Legend (pes). Fan feedback is a very important and integral factor in game development cause without the fans who purchase these titles their feedback is essential to the developers, they then can improve or add to their fothcoming title

 

[NeticH]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I question id like to throw:
What do you think is the best ranking system for online?

My opinion: A point based system, where the difference between teams quality affects the score the winner gets.
So every team has a stars level (1-5 stars), based in statistics of last weeks matches, instead of harcoded level by Konami.

So if i play with a 1star team against a 5star team, it can be rewarded by giving me more points per win than my rival.

What do you think?

 

[Ameppe]

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Two gifs from last video

Spoiler

I've never seen this animation before

Finally great looking running animation (Germany player near the centre of penalty area)