PES2010 discussion thread

Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Gab_ said:
My theory is still that the big change in PES will not be until next generation of consoles and this is what most new employees were hired to do. You have to understand that the new FIFA engine was in the making for at least three years before it was used in a FIFA game. Konami is not going to do the same mistake again. And if the new generation of consoles will be out around 2012/1013 then this would be the time to start working on that new engine.

While the new FIFA engine was under development all the FIFA's were pretty much the same but polished I guess, just like PES is now. And then BOOM new PES engine with amazing physics and animation system ;)
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i dont think the majority of people would wait another 4 years to play a proper next gen pes
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

"Pro Evolution Soccer 2009: 88%
Sterling footy action but the lack of new ideas is starting to grate."

The greatest revamp since PES 3 my ass..

Key changes in every aspect my ass..
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
Anyone who thinks PES2010 is a polished PES2009 should really reconsider.

PES2010 is the FIRST big step Konami has done with PES eversince PES2-->3. It may not be there yet, but it's WAY bigger than PES3-->4--->5--->6--->PESWE2007--->2008---->2009

PES 2011 will resume the "small refinements" steps, but PES2010 is a big step like nothing Konami has done before.
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i think u really missunderstood the jumps, it should be like this:

PES3-->4--->5--->6<---<--<--<--<-<-PESWE2007-->2008=2009
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

bonyi said:
"Pro Evolution Soccer 2009: 88%
Sterling footy action but the lack of new ideas is starting to grate."

The greatest revamp since PES 3 my ass..

Key changes in every aspect my ass..
Click to expand...

With all the BS that those reviewers are used to say, your ass must be huge.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Where are the big steps?

1) Overall Graphics engine. (the game's still shots look like they're taken from a CGI)
2) Players' animations are much more fluid.
3) Unlimited movement and passing (aka 360-degrees)

I mean, PES2009 was basically a patched PES2008 where Konami changed some gameplay values. PES2008 was a polished and sped-up PESWE2007. PES3-6 were the exact same game with very small differences in pace, a few new movements/tricks and maybe, maybe graphics (if you look real hard).

PES2010 is no doubt the first REAL change in PES/WE since PES3. I am not satisfied by it (but let's remember we last saw a 70-75% build), but it's an unprecedented change in the game all in all.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Well....there's always next year. For me, I'll buy the game because I'm curious about the new additions.

I think if they sort out the animations in PES 2011 it will be The Game.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

If you play FIFA like the guys in the video's it still looks shit, the same goes for PES, but play them patiently like real football without using any of the same old exploits, then both games come alive.

PES2010 is a big upgrade by the looks of it, but all the videos do it no justice. If someone plays without using the sprint button,pressure button and consistant wing runs then you may form a different opinion.

The Seabas video is a decent example, not the overall polished article but it looks a great game of footy.

My point is that i will not be playing the game like a 6 year old and I will try to simulate the game as it is intended to be played. PES has too many exploits and will always be abused, but it still has the ability to look and feel fantastic...............................it's down to the user how good it is for PES2010 IMO.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dr Force said:
If you play FIFA like the guys in the video's it still looks shit, the same goes for PES, but play them patiently like real football without using any of the same old exploits, then both games come alive.
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100% agreed, you can film FIFA/PES 09 right now and make it look a lot worse than it is if you hammer the pass button and press random pad directions (hiding the controller from view). I've said it before and I'll say it again, half the guys playing these games only ever play Call of Duty and/or Halo. You only have to look at the video EA uploaded of the people who played FIFA 10 at Gamescom to get an idea of what the crowd were like.

"OH YES I WAS VERY IMPRESSED! RONALDO LOOKED LIKE RONALDO!"
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

BaYern said:
Well....there's always next year. For me, I'll buy the game because I'm curious about the new additions.

I think if they sort out the animations in PES 2011 it will be The Game.
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IMO PES 2011 needs:

1) Life-like animations.
2) Realistic atmosphere (Animated crowds, player emotions/gestures)
3) Realistic camera options
4) A Physics engine for collisions and tackles.
5) An Audio overhaul, just like the one Graphics got this year...
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

mjsmith2k said:
Happy Birthday *aLe :BEER:
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Thank you pal ;)

Jamezinho said:
Some nice ideas. My problem with Sindii's idea about the power-bar filling faster for poor players is that does it not punish the better players? What I mean is, if the top strikers have power-bars that fill slowly then their ability to hit a quick and powerful snap shot or reaction shot is hampered as they have to wait longer to charge up a powerful shot. Whereas the lesser quality players will be able to unleash harder shots more quickly, albeit more inaccurately.
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That's why I said it could be refined.. so, here's another version that takes your remark in account:

Let's say you play with Milan and have Pato and Zigoni upfront. Performing exactly the same shot, the power bar goes up identically for both players but they'll shoot according to this diagram:

PATO:
too weak - weak shot ----------------------------- perfect ----------------------------- hard shot - mishit
patos.png

0% - POWER BAR FILLS THIS WAY --------------------------------------------------------------> - 100%

ZIGONI:
too weak ----------- weak shot ------------------- perfect ------------------- hard shot ----------- mishit
zigoni.png

0% - POWER BAR FILLS THIS WAY --------------------------------------------------------------> - 100%

Of course, the power bar will take exactly the same amount of time to fill either for Pato and Zigoni, and the difference is just this: the higher is the "shooting" ability of the player, the larger the green bit of the diagram would be!!

So, you can see that shooting with Pato you have a "larger amount" of the power bar that will result in a good shot (green part) while with Zigoni you'll have to hit the perfect centre of the power bar to have a good shot, otherwise it'd be too weak or too hard.

So, hypothetically, if the bar takes 1 second to fill at 100%, with Pato you'll have the time between 0.2s and 0.8s to get a good shot, while with Zigoni you'll only have the time from 0.4s to 0.6s.. Hope it's clear enough..
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Great diagram *aLe. I reckon that would really well if implemented correctly.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Chris Davies said:
100% agreed, you can film FIFA/PES 09 right now and make it look a lot worse than it is if you hammer the pass button and press random pad directions (hiding the controller from view). I've said it before and I'll say it again, half the guys playing these games only ever play Call of Duty and/or Halo. You only have to look at the video EA uploaded of the people who played FIFA 10 at Gamescom to get an idea of what the crowd were like.

"OH YES I WAS VERY IMPRESSED! RONALDO LOOKED LIKE RONALDO!"
Click to expand...

The thing is Chris, a good game forces you to play the right way. If there's an exploit that works, that's a defect in the game's gameplay not the players. It's the story of life. It's Evolution... Natural selection... the tactics that work will be used and will spread, while the tactics that don't work will seize to exist, disappear.

The game shouldn't "force" you to play right, in the sense of limitation. No. The same reasons why a player can't run through the wing each time, cutback and score a goal (PES) in real-life, should be the same reasons why this cannot be done in PES.

Same for FIFA: The same reason why a team connot score exclusively from through passes and 1-on-1s in real life should be the same reason why the tactic shouldn't always work in FIFA.

That was the promise that was never delivered by Teamvision, a learning AI. It should all be about replicating real life circumstances, reasons, and physics... so that in the game, only real-life tactics would work.

So I really don't blame the players. I blame the game code which allowed such exploits to flourish.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

*aLe said:
Thank you pal ;)




That's why I said it could be refined.. so, here's another version that takes your remark in account:

Let's say you play with Milan and have Pato and Zigoni upfront. Performing exactly the same shot, the power bar goes up identically for both players but they'll shoot according to this diagram:

PATO:
too weak - weak shot ----------------------------- perfect ----------------------------- hard shot - mishit
patos.png

0% - POWER BAR FILLS THIS WAY --------------------------------------------------------------> - 100%

ZIGONI:
too weak ----------- weak shot ------------------- perfect ------------------- hard shot ----------- mishit
zigoni.png

0% - POWER BAR FILLS THIS WAY --------------------------------------------------------------> - 100%

Of course, the power bar will take exactly the same amount of time to fill either for Pato and Zigoni, and the difference is just this: the higher is the "shooting" ability of the player, the larger the green bit of the diagram would be!!

So, you can see that shooting with Pato you have a "larger amount" of the power bar that will result in a good shot (green part) while with Zigoni you'll have to hit the perfect centre of the power bar to have a good shot, otherwise it'd be too weak or too hard.

So, hypothetically, if the bar takes 1 second to fill at 100%, with Pato you'll have the time between 0.2s and 0.8s to get a good shot, while with Zigoni you'll only have the time from 0.4s to 0.6s.. Hope it's clear enough..
Click to expand...

I think that would make the shooting too easy. One example is the Bigs 2. The Pitching is like this and I can honestly say I get the bar either perfect or really good, rarely average or bad. I would like to test it out before I shot it down, I do think its a creative Idea and would like to see how it plays but not 100% sure.

For me the shots that go "perfect" would either end up being repetitive or out of your control and random.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Surely it can be improved further.. But I guess now it's down to timings.. The 0.6 seconds for pato to get a perfect shot are just hypotetical, they can be shortened (and MUST be shortened I agree).. You may want to try "shorter" loading times for the power bar for example, so it'd be harder to hit the centre of the bar..

Of course a "perfect" shot has to be hard to achieve.. On the other hand I think that someone that's really skilled and can handle his joypad perfectly, has somehow the "right" to see a perfect shot if he does everything flawlessly.. So, if you hit the perfect centre of the bar 5 times out of 10, you'll see 5 perfect shots out of 10.

Of course, a perfect shot by itself is not enough to score. You also have to aim properly, your player also has to have good balance and to have the ball on his main foot, and the keeper must be unable to reach it ;)
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

*aLe said:
Thank you pal ;)




That's why I said it could be refined.. so, here's another version that takes your remark in account:

Let's say you play with Milan and have Pato and Zigoni upfront. Performing exactly the same shot, the power bar goes up identically for both players but they'll shoot according to this diagram:

PATO:
too weak - weak shot ----------------------------- perfect ----------------------------- hard shot - mishit
patos.png

0% - POWER BAR FILLS THIS WAY --------------------------------------------------------------> - 100%

ZIGONI:
too weak ----------- weak shot ------------------- perfect ------------------- hard shot ----------- mishit
zigoni.png

0% - POWER BAR FILLS THIS WAY --------------------------------------------------------------> - 100%

Of course, the power bar will take exactly the same amount of time to fill either for Pato and Zigoni, and the difference is just this: the higher is the "shooting" ability of the player, the larger the green bit of the diagram would be!!

So, you can see that shooting with Pato you have a "larger amount" of the power bar that will result in a good shot (green part) while with Zigoni you'll have to hit the perfect centre of the power bar to have a good shot, otherwise it'd be too weak or too hard.

So, hypothetically, if the bar takes 1 second to fill at 100%, with Pato you'll have the time between 0.2s and 0.8s to get a good shot, while with Zigoni you'll only have the time from 0.4s to 0.6s.. Hope it's clear enough..
Click to expand...

The bars is a welcome idea as one of many variables affecting the final execution. But again, circumstances from real-life should govern the accuracy of a shot. As a doctor, I think of it as a disease that needs many different circumstances to manifest (multifactorial disease)... when it manifests, it differs from one patient to another. For example:

For instance, a 'D' player from a nowhere league can score a perfect long range goal. Ronaldinho can also score a perfect long range goal... But, the D player will need:

1) To be in perfect forme (red arrow)
2) Absolutely no pressure from defenders.
3) A long run with the ball to build momentum.
4) Plenty of space
5) Have the ball on the 'right' foot
6) Have a high morale (if they add this variable to PES, which I hope they do)
7) Shoot the ball with the exact right power (e.g. like your bar idea)
8) Optimal adrenaline levels (enhances concentration, accuracy... present in an important game, experienced player)
9) Perfect player positioning before the shot
10) Poor defending with gaps

....and finally, a realistic multi-factorial event would occur, which would result in a high probability of a perfect shot, which would result or not result in a scored goal based on other factors like the goal keeper's attributes (positioning, reaction) and forme...

On the other hand, Ronaldinho has a high probability of executing a perfect shot even if he's among defenders, with absolutely no momentum, no space, with awkward positioning, through standing defenders of a big team with a good keeper guarding the net....

YouTube - ronaldinho goal vs chelsea

Only when PES starts implementing this multi-factorial approach to every aspect of the game, will we get a realistic outcome from shooting, passing..etc with different players in different forme and different circumstances. PES already have many of those variables, but it's missing the adrenaline fluctation (players underperform in friendly games, when they gauranteed their qualification, when they have nothing to prove, when they're winning by a wide margin....etc) and morale... The more the variables, the more realistic the outcome.
 
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Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I remember some old games, where if you push d-pad back while charging shot, the shot is low (but powerful). I think it would be a great addition to PES.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

goalgerd said:
i dont think the majority of people would wait another 4 years to play a proper next gen pes
Click to expand...

True, but they still have to work on a new engine now otherwise it will be shit forever. They can't polish a turd much more than they have done now.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

I'm afraid Pes 2010 is going to suck so here's my suggestion for KONAMI.

- Take Pes 5
- Update the transfers
- Make the AI better at attacking
- Add manual passing and shooting
- 360 movement
- 10 v. 10 working online (With LAN available)

That's it. Would keep me hooked for the next five yea..
Oh, ok. So you won't do it.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
Where are the big steps?

1) Overall Graphics engine. (the game's still shots look like they're taken from a CGI)
2) Players' animations are much more fluid.
3) Unlimited movement and passing (aka 360-degrees)
Click to expand...

1) Yes, the graphics seem to be the only part of the current engine that they are able to actually work with, everything else is probably a mess.
2) No, they aren't. They look sub par from the wide angle, but when you see them in replays you see how horrible they really are. Don't even try to say otherwise, or I'll have to make a gif-animation of Benzema running down the flank.
3) They's a load of crap. Please show a video where the 360 degree dribbling system is noticable, and after that, compare it to FIFA:s. And where has anyone said anything about free passing?

Yes, it is a bit better than last years effort, just like 09 was a bit better than 08. But if you call this big steps I'm even more worried about PES future than I was before. It will be enough to keep the PES fans to believe in the game, maybe not everyone as yet another group will move towards FIFA this year again, but don't tell me this is what will win the old PES fans back from FIFA.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Leo said:
2) No, they aren't. They look sub par from the wide angle, but when you see them in replays you see how horrible they really are. Don't even try to say otherwise, or I'll have to make a gif-animation of Benzema running down the flank.
3) They's a load of crap. Please show a video where the 360 degree dribbling system is noticable, and after that, compare it to FIFA:s. And where has anyone said anything about free passing?

Yes, it is a bit better than last years effort, just like 09 was a bit better than 08.
Click to expand...

2) The game moves MUCH MORE FLUIDLY. That's different from saying it's dead on life-like. From PES3 to PES2009, movement was RIGID. In PES2010, it's not nearly as rigid as it was before. Transitions are a lot better, for e.g.

3) You're confusing 360-degree movements freedom with the animations that show them off. FIFA has more and better animations. That's SOMETHING ELSE. In PES2010, you have the option to move in any direction you want within the 360-degrees. Even if you have ONE animation, for all angles, that doesn't change that 360-degree movement option is in the game, and that's a big, big thing, regardless of the fact the animations are showing it off or not.

YouTube - Pes 2010 Gameplay Gamescom 2009

And no, the change in PES2010 compared to PES2009 can not BY ANY STRECTH OF IMAGINATION be compared to the change that PES2009 had compared to PES2008.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
2) The game moves MUCH MORE FLUIDLY. That's different from saying it's dead on life-like. From PES3 to PES2009, movement was RIGID. In PES2010, it's not nearly as rigid as it was before. Transitions are a lot better, for e.g.

3) You're confusing 360-degree movements freedom with the animations that show them off. FIFA has more and better animations. That's SOMETHING ELSE. In PES2010, you have the option to move in any direction you want within the 360-degrees. Even if you have ONE animation, for all angles, that doesn't change that 360-degree movement option is in the game, and that's a big, big thing, regardless of the fact the animations are showing it off or not.

YouTube - Pes 2010 Gameplay Gamescom 2009

And no, the change in PES2010 compared to PES2009 can not BY ANY STRECTH OF IMAGINATION be compared to the change that PES2009 had compared to PES2008.
Click to expand...

Completely agree
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

The_Knight said:
2) The game moves MUCH MORE FLUIDLY. That's different from saying it's dead on life-like. From PES3 to PES2009, movement was RIGID. In PES2010, it's not nearly as rigid as it was before. Transitions are a lot better, for e.g.
Click to expand...

Yeah, wow, it's better than a 10 years old game. You're just forgetting the most important part, how it stands against all the other games out there. The early PES was really impressive if you looked at what else there were on the market, but that's not something you can say today. Then it doesn't help that it looks a little bit better than PES3. But again, for those who see PES as the only game they'll ever play it's probably enough.

Oh, and I still don't see the true 360 degree dribbling. Compare it to FIFA, and give your opinion, please.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Leo said:
Yeah, wow, it's better than a 10 years old game. You're just forgetting the most important part, how it stands against all the other games out there. The early PES was really impressive if you looked at what else there were on the market, but that's not something you can say today. Then it doesn't help that it looks a little bit better than PES3. But again, for those who see PES as the only game they'll ever play it's probably enough.

Oh, and I still don't see the true 360 degree dribbling. Compare it to FIFA, and give your opinion, please.
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I do not think we can ever deny that it is a couple of years behind the other game, but you can clearly see that 2010 is a step up from PES2009 in every department.

Play 2010 then play PES5 and you will see it has finally made a big advancement. Saying that it looks a little bit better than PES3 is a bit silly TBH. The current graphics look superb to most, even FIFA players will agree that this is a big difference and for those that play the game in a closer camera will really benefit.

Can't say I agree with you, although I think I know where you are coming from, however nobody needs to justify which is better, because they are pulling in different directions.
 
Re: PES2010 News & Rumours thread

Dr Force said:
I do not think we can ever deny that it is a couple of years behind the other game, but you can clearly see that 2010 is a step up from PES2009 in every department.

Play 2010 then play PES5 and you will see it has finally made a big advancement. Saying that it looks a little bit better than PES3 is a bit silly TBH. The current graphics look superb to most, even FIFA players will agree that this is a big difference and for those that play the game in a closer camera will really benefit.

Can't say I agree with you, although I think I know where you are coming from, however nobody needs to justify which is better, because they are pulling in different directions.
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I never dragged in graphics in the discussion so I don't know why you did that, they are great but I can't help to think that the processing power used to create those graphics could have been better off doing more important stuff.

On to something else, and this is just my impression but it really feels like there is something to it. From PES 2008 and onwards the ball physics seems off to me, so much that I can't see a gameplay video without thinking about it. Especially crosses is terrible, but overall it really feel odd to me and more like something else than a football, anyone feeling the same?
 
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